Dan Wilson on tue 6 aug 96
"Temmoku. The name temmoku comes from Tien-mu-Shan, "Mountain of the Eye of
Heaven," a mountain in Chechiang province China. It was from a monastery on
this mountain that Dogen, a Japanese Zen priest, was said to have brought
the first temmoku bowl to Japan in 1228. See also Hares fur."
D. Rhodes, Clay and Glazes for the Potter. Revised Edition; Chilton Book
Company,Radnor; Pensylvania.1974
"Tenmoku. A lustrous-black iron stoneware glaze sometimes running to a red
rust on the thinner parts."
Bernard Leach, A Potters Book. Transatlantic Arts Inc. Hollywood-by-the-Sea
Florida; Eleventh American Impression 1967.
:)
Wes Rolley on fri 25 feb 05
Normally, I would expect that Vince is the one who is a stickler for=20
exact definition of words, unless it applies to the physical sciences=20
when it is Ivor Lewis. Recently, I feel that the work tenmoku is being=20
used somewhat loosely.
Mel calls what he and Joe Koons are doing, Tenmoku. John Britt seems to=20
want to call these "iron saturate" glazes. I guess that I did not know=20
what tenmoku really meant. So, I looked up the term on Rober Yellin's=20
site, http://www.e-yakimono.net. A search on the word tenmoku got me to=20
http://www.e-yakimono.net/guide/html/tenmoku.html
Nothing that I have seen on Mel's CLAYART page looks like this. So, I=20
am still a bit confused.
According to Yellin's site, one of the few extant yohen tenmoku wares=20
from the Song Dynasty is at the Seikado Bunko Art Museum in Setagaya-ku,=20
Tokyo. I found the image here:
http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/tasteofjapan/brushstrokes/index.html
To see this work, you have to click on "gallery" and then scroll down to=20
the tea objects (Chado). You can click on the thumbnail to get a larger=20
image and click on that to get one even larger. It is like nothing that=20
I have seen. Gorgeous. So, I guess that this is yohen tenmoku.
--=20
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far to=
o=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
(408)778-3024
http://www.refpub.com/
Jason Truesdell on sat 26 feb 05
On my web site I also have a typical contemporary temmoku glazed pot.
http://www.yuzumura.com/pc-33-1-temmoku-tokkuri-set.aspx
It's not the best photo, but if you look at the larger photo you will =
see
small spots.
Another example is the guinomi on:
http://www.yuzumura.com/pc-52-5-temmoku-guinomi.aspx
The main attribute is that iron particles in the glaze settle in various
ways (sometimes like "oil spots", for example) that are visible after
firing. The teapot and guinomi set on
http://www.yuzumura.com/pc-50-1-persimmon-glazed-teapot-set.aspx shows =
some
of the variation possible with the same iron-based glaze.
In most Japanese pots I've seen, the spots tend to be reddish or bluish, =
or
occasionally unsaturated. Minowa-san is using a Hamada-style kaki-yuu
(persimmon glaze). But Kyoto style temmoku looks quite different from =
the
rustic style Minowa produces.
I was surprised that what Mel was producing was being called temmoku, =
but if
the effect is caused by iron particulate than I don't see any reason to
dispute the idea that they are temmoku.
If I recall correctly, temmoku pots are fired to about cone 10, and
reduction fired. The same iron-based glaze that Minowa uses produces
completely dissimilar results in oxidation.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Wes Rolley
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:02 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Tenmoku
Normally, I would expect that Vince is the one who is a stickler for=20
exact definition of words, unless it applies to the physical sciences=20
when it is Ivor Lewis. Recently, I feel that the work tenmoku is being=20
used somewhat loosely.
Mel calls what he and Joe Koons are doing, Tenmoku. John Britt seems to=20
want to call these "iron saturate" glazes. I guess that I did not know=20
what tenmoku really meant. So, I looked up the term on Rober Yellin's=20
site, http://www.e-yakimono.net. A search on the word tenmoku got me to =
http://www.e-yakimono.net/guide/html/tenmoku.html
Nothing that I have seen on Mel's CLAYART page looks like this. So, I=20
am still a bit confused.
According to Yellin's site, one of the few extant yohen tenmoku wares=20
from the Song Dynasty is at the Seikado Bunko Art Museum in Setagaya-ku, =
Tokyo. I found the image here:
http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/tasteofjapan/brushstrokes/index.html=
To see this work, you have to click on "gallery" and then scroll down to =
the tea objects (Chado). You can click on the thumbnail to get a larger =
image and click on that to get one even larger. It is like nothing that =
I have seen. Gorgeous. So, I guess that this is yohen tenmoku.
--=20
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far =
too=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
(408)778-3024
http://www.refpub.com/
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Les on sat 26 feb 05
I find it interesting to be discussing temoku as a glaze.
I just attended a workshop given by Paul Davis at our Guild in Parks=
vulle,=20
B.C. Canada According to Paul, "tenmoku" is not a glaze but the shap=
r of a=20
tea bowl made in a particular place in Japan.
Any takers?
Les Crimp in Nanoose Bay, B.C.
lcrimp@shaw.ca
----- Original Message -----=20
=46rom: "Wes Rolley"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:02 PM
Subject: Tenmoku
Normally, I would expect that Vince is the one who is a stickler for
exact definition of words, unless it applies to the physical sciences
when it is Ivor Lewis. Recently, I feel that the work tenmoku is bein=
g
used somewhat loosely.
Mel calls what he and Joe Koons are doing, Tenmoku. John Britt seems =
to
want to call these "iron saturate" glazes. I guess that I did not kn=
ow
what tenmoku really meant. So, I looked up the term on Rober Yellin's
site, http://www.e-yakimono.net. A search on the word tenmoku got me=
to
http://www.e-yakimono.net/guide/html/tenmoku.html
Nothing that I have seen on Mel's CLAYART page looks like this. So, =
I
am still a bit confused.
According to Yellin's site, one of the few extant yohen tenmoku wares
=66rom the Song Dynasty is at the Seikado Bunko Art Museum in Setagay=
a-ku,
Tokyo. I found the image here:
http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/tasteofjapan/brushstrokes/index.=
html
To see this work, you have to click on "gallery" and then scroll down=
to
the tea objects (Chado). You can click on the thumbnail to get a lar=
ger
image and click on that to get one even larger. It is like nothing t=
hat
I have seen. Gorgeous. So, I guess that this is yohen tenmoku.
--=20
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know fa=
r too
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I =
am
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
(408)778-3024
http://www.refpub.com/
_____________________________________________________________________=
_________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at=20
melpots@pclink.com.
Edwards on sun 27 feb 05
Les-- My take was that, Tenmoku originated in China during the T'ang
Dynasty. However, it was only during the Sung Dynasty that it was
perfected. How did it get to be a Japanese teabowl made in a paricular
place in Japan? When Korean potter's were kidnapped and taken to Japan,
when did the pots that they made, quit being called Korean and started
to be called Japanese?
The orient is a big place with a long ceramic history-- sometimes I
think that China for geo-political reasons does not get the proper
respect it deserves for the contributions that it has made to pottery.
The rant ends here. Off my soapbox and back to work.
Cheers,
~Craig
Les wrote:
> I find it interesting to be discussing temoku as a glaze.
>
> I just attended a workshop given by Paul Davis at our Guild in
> Parksvulle, B.C. Canada According to Paul, "tenmoku" is not a glaze
> but the shapr of a tea bowl made in a particular place in Japan.
>
> Any takers?
>
> Les Crimp in Nanoose Bay, B.C.
> lcrimp@shaw.ca
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wes Rolley"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:02 PM
> Subject: Tenmoku
>
>
> Normally, I would expect that Vince is the one who is a stickler for
> exact definition of words, unless it applies to the physical sciences
> when it is Ivor Lewis. Recently, I feel that the work tenmoku is being
> used somewhat loosely.
>
> Mel calls what he and Joe Koons are doing, Tenmoku. John Britt seems to
> want to call these "iron saturate" glazes. I guess that I did not know
> what tenmoku really meant. So, I looked up the term on Rober Yellin's
> site, http://www.e-yakimono.net. A search on the word tenmoku got me to
> http://www.e-yakimono.net/guide/html/tenmoku.html
>
> Nothing that I have seen on Mel's CLAYART page looks like this. So, I
> am still a bit confused.
>
> According to Yellin's site, one of the few extant yohen tenmoku wares
> from the Song Dynasty is at the Seikado Bunko Art Museum in Setagaya-ku,
> Tokyo. I found the image here:
> http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/tasteofjapan/brushstrokes/index.html
>
> To see this work, you have to click on "gallery" and then scroll down to
> the tea objects (Chado). You can click on the thumbnail to get a larger
> image and click on that to get one even larger. It is like nothing that
> I have seen. Gorgeous. So, I guess that this is yohen tenmoku.
>
>
Wes Rolley on sun 27 feb 05
Les wrote:
> I find it interesting to be discussing temoku as a glaze.
>=20
> I just attended a workshop given by Paul Davis at our Guild in=20
> Parksvulle, B.C. Canada According to Paul, "tenmoku" is not a glaze bu=
t=20
> the shapr of a tea bowl made in a particular place in Japan.
Les, I would guess that Paul Davis, who is undoubtedly a much better=20
potter than I, has not spent much time thinking about the real=20
derivation of the word. I would much rather trust the Japanese source=20
that I cited. (see below). It refers to a "style" that is identified by=20
it's external characteristics, including glaze but "shape" is not a=20
determinant. The characteristic shape of the Song Dynasty (Chinese)=20
bowls probably derived from the fact that the glaze moves with gravity.
I have gotten private emails which also made the same point that you=20
did. It is just another example of how much mis-information is passed=20
around as gospel and never challenged because it came from the mouth of=20
an authority.
I would also refer you to Robert Tichane's book, Celadon Blues, in which=20
he also talks about his research on this style of work (about 1 page in=20
a book devoted to other topics). What I remember it that he claims to=20
have recreated the glaze from a combination of just 2 ingredients,=20
Redart and Wood Ash, applied very thickly, and fired in oxidation. I=20
don't have the book at hand (borrowed from my local library) but I think=20
that it did included chromatograph or electron microscope=20
representations of the Chinese Glaze and its recreation. That book has=20
a section on Glaze Atmosphere and Glaze Body Interactions that is importa=
nt.
Another interesting comment that I remember from Tichane was the fact=20
that the work was thrown (trimmed) very thin and that the glaze was as=20
much as twice as thick as the clay that carried it.
Given what Mel and Joe have done, and also what Tichane wrote, it=20
becomes obvious that, as Mel has been saying, it is not about the recipe=20
but about the entire process. If you really understand what is=20
happening, then there are many recipes that give similar effects.
> Mel calls what he and Joe Koons are doing, Tenmoku. John Britt seems to
> want to call these "iron saturate" glazes. I guess that I did not know
> what tenmoku really meant. So, I looked up the term on Rober Yellin's
> site, http://www.e-yakimono.net. A search on the word tenmoku got me t=
o
> http://www.e-yakimono.net/guide/html/tenmoku.html
--=20
"I find I have a great lot to learn =96 or unlearn. I seem to know far to=
o=20
much and this knowledge obscures the really significant facts, but I am=20
getting on." -- Charles Rennie Mackintosh
Wesley C. Rolley
17211 Quail Court
Morgan Hill, CA 95037
(408)778-3024
http://www.refpub.com/
John Britt on tue 1 mar 05
Wes,
I don't believe that this is mis-information. Temmoku can mean a class of
ware, which is also of Oribe and Shino. But a word have many meanings and
in America, among potters, temmoku is generally understood to mean the
brown/black glaze that breaks to rust typical of Marks's Temmoku or Ron
Roy's Temmoku. That does not make it incorrect.
I agree that temmoku can exist along a continuum. At the low end is blue
celadon (1-2%), and then with more iron (3 =96 4 %) a green celadon, then a
temmoku (5-10%) and then an iron saturate (11-20%). You might even throw
in amber celadon, not to mention , kaki, teadust, oil spot, aventurine,
etc.
This is the common usage in pottery studios across the country. So we
don=92t want to call celadons glazes temmoku even though they are on the
continuum. Otherwise we would have blue temmoku, green temmoku, brown
temmoku, black temmoku, red temmoku, etc. It would be fine to do that if
that were the convention but there is a long history of celadons to
rewrite, and I don't believe that is necessary.
I also don't buy the bit about mel's glaze being a "system". Almost every
glaze I know is a "system". They need a claybody, a recipe, various
materials, firing cycle and cooling cycle, which may include oxidation,
reduction, neutral, pulsing in and out of reduction or oxidation. And some
even include layering glazes.
Just my opinion,
John Britt
www.johnbrittpottery.com
terryh on sat 5 mar 05
i don't know why my previous post was sensored out. though
it doesn't add anything new, i just try to post it one more time.
-----Original Message-----
From: terryh [mailto:terryh@pdq.net]
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 6:21 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Tenmoku
Les wrote:
>I find it interesting to be discussing temoku as a glaze.
>
>I just attended a workshop given by Paul Davis at our Guild
>in Parksvulle, B.C. Canada According to Paul, "tenmoku" is
>not a glaze but the shapr of a tea bowl made in a particular
>place in Japan.
i think you are correct:
there are shiro-temmoku (white temmoku) and kikuka-temmoku
(chrysanthemum temmoku with amber over dark glaze). a few of
them are among japan's important national cultural items (similar
to national treasure).
in kamakura period (12-14th century), a japanese buddhist monk
(or monks?) studying in china at temmoku-san (mt. temmoku, tienmu(?)
in chinese) temple brought back bowls made during song dynasity
china. its sharp (nearly conical?) shape, including its foot, is called
temmoku-shape. though not limited to (iron saturated) black glaze,
most of famous temmoku tea bowls are in black, including yuteki-
temmoku (oil spot temmoku) and yo-u-hen-temmoku (kiln-altered
and majestically-altered, depending which kanji character is used
for "yo-u"). (and, strictly speaking, the afore-mentioned shiro-
temmoku (white temmoku) tea bowls were made in japan and took
slightly different shape with wider foot, in my observation.)
my interpretation is that these monks could have brought
totally different bowls, but some of bowls reminded them of the
mountain shape they studied at and called them temmoku-shape for
a nostalgic reason. i may be spreading a totally irresponsible
story here as my interpretation. (i haven't even seen pictures
of mt.temmoku.) but, the foot of temmoku bowl is rather narrow and
low.
on the otehr ahnd, when we call "temmoku-yu (temmoku glaze)", it
generally is understood as iron-saturated black glaze. isn't it?
and we now hear about red temmoku. an example of living language?
and of living (and re-living) technology!
terry
terry hagiwara
terryh@pdq.net
http://www.geocities.com/terry.hagiwara
Lee Love on sun 27 mar 05
Check out this tenmoku tea bowl from the Mitsukoshi show. Look at
the drip that stopped at the bottom of the foot. It was sold when I
got there, or else I would have bought it.
http://hankos.blogspot.com/
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan http://mashiko.org
http://potters.blogspot.com/ WEB LOG
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/ Photos!
Mary Starosta on fri 5 sep 08
Thank you to all who posted on and off list regarding this topic. Do all
Tenmoku Glazes from years ago have the "pulled" affect in the middle of the
bowl? Like the black and brown glazes I am seeing sometimes have a blue
"EYE" in the middle of the bowl? Is that a clue for a true Tenmoku glaze?
And would that be one way explain the Mtn Heaven's eye in the actual piece
itself?
Did the Song Dynasty have more than Yohen Tenmoku glazes? I am interested
in more of the IRON and SALT affect in the Tenmoku Glaze. In The Tatra Mtn
they have what are called SALT CAVES, and I would like to link Tenmoku IRON
and SALT Glazes some how not so much ASH. THanks
Mary
http://marystarosta.wordpress.com/
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