HLMass@aol.com on wed 26 jun 96
I have been experimenting with making my own glazes for almost a year now
(off and on) and all of those that seem to work reliably for me are brown and
green. Now while I prefer those colors myself, others seem to keep
requesting blue. Every blue glaze I try either runs of the pot, blisters,
comes out green, "electric" blue, etc. I don't understand, I thought the
blues were easier because cobalt is stable. What am I doing wrong? Does
anyone have a RELIABLE cone 6 oxidation blue glaze that I can try to see if
it is me or the glazes? Thanks in advance for any input.
Heather Massey in Columbia, CT (where it is turning out to be a beautiful day
:>))
HLMass@aol.com
ktighe on fri 28 jun 96
For Heather Massey-- Light Blue (glossy) Cone 5-8
Frit 3124 60%
Zircopax 20%
EPK 10%
(potash) Feldspar 10%
Cobalt .5%
Good luck-- Ken on Cape Cod.
clennell on sat 6 jan 01
I just got the word that Clay Times is sponsoring the band at Necca- Cactus
Groove a hot little blues band. Now that's the blues. I think I'll take
some of my dinnerware and see if it rubs off.
Cheers,
Tony
sour cherry pottery
tony and sheila clennell
4545 king street
beamsville, on.L0R 1B1
http://www.sourcherrypottery.com
clennell@vaxxine.com
clennell on wed 26 nov 03
I said this before on clayart but for those of you suffering the blues ought
to get yourself "Art and Fear'David Bayles and Ted Orland ISNB 0-9614547-3-3
$12.95
full of good stuff about the difficulties that cause so many artists to give
up.
Hows this one-" If ninety-eight percent of our medical students were no
longer practicing medicine five years after graduation, there would be a
Senate investigation, yet that proportion of art majors are rountinely
consigned to an early professional death."
The statistics 10 years later are not available.
On that cheery note . I hope you're the other 2%. I wonder what percent of
that 2% have trust funds?
Best,
Tony
Lee Love on thu 27 nov 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "clennell"
> Hows this one-" If ninety-eight percent of our medical students were no
> longer practicing medicine five years after graduation,
I would wager money that the statistics are better for potters that
for artists.
--
Lee in Mashiko
"The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful
servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has
forgotten the gift." -- Albert Einstein
http://Mashiko.org
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John Jensen on thu 27 nov 03
What? Potters aren't artists?
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lee Love
Subject: Re: the Blues
I would wager money that the statistics are better for potters
that
for artists.
John Jensen on fri 28 nov 03
Lee;
When I read most any of your posts I find my head nodding in agreement;
and where I might not agree, I am likely to spend some time thinking
about how and why I might be wrong.
In the case of this discussion, I find little to really debate, though
I am a little mystified about why you are willing to refer to the
practitioners of some other media as artist when you find the term
unacceptable for a potter.
Not to accuse you of anything. Certainly not. But I feel there may
be a possibility of a false modesty in refusing to acknowledge one's
status. Perhaps it is a difference in culture. In my culture if one is
complimented on one's cooking, one politely accepts the compliment. It
would be a bit of bad manners to say "oh, no! I'm not a good cook but
only a humble shopkeeper." And not only bad manners but somewhat uppity
as well.
Personally, I don't think much about whether I'm an artist when I do
what I do. People sometimes find it convenient to refer to me as an
artist and that doesn't bother me. I don't feel the need to correct
them or disabuse them of their possibly misguided view. To the extent
of what the words mean to them, they are right.
Why not call a potter an artist? Why make an issue of it? There is
no inherent connection with wealth or celebrity. Quite the opposite in
most peoples minds. The "starving artist is the stereotype many people
think of first. Perhaps some of us potter don't want to be called
artists because we don't want to be associated with those
"losers"...those "artists."
Oh well! Just a friendly late night rant....
Best wishes....
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
Jan L. Peterson on fri 28 nov 03
Anyone who turns a hand or his talents into something that delights the
senses and the soul, spirit, mind and heart of others is an artist. From someone
who sits in a bar and makes little paper roses out of napkins, to a person
wiping, for the ninetieth time, a spot on the canvas and re-doing it, to someone
who turns a lump of clay into a pot or a daisy. And, all in between. Jan, the
Alleycat
Lee Love on fri 28 nov 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jensen"
John, I thought I answered your question thoughly, when you wrote:
"What? Potters aren't artists?"
Not necessarily.
I believe nobody has to apologize for being a potter or a
craftsman. This attitude is essential for understanding Shoji Hamada's
approach to his work. I'll write a more complete essay on the weekend.
--
Lee in Mashiko
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a
miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." -- Albert
Einstein
http://Mashiko.org
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John Jensen on fri 28 nov 03
Well, Lee;
I guess my question was more or less rhetorical, and not in need of an
answer. OK. "Not necessarily" is a good point; but you were saying that
potters possibly had more longevity than "artists." I'm not sure why
you felt the need to make that distinction. Did you mean that potters
are more likely to survive after their educations have been completed
than musical artists, dance artists, sculpture artists. Or maybe that
"craftsman" potters survive better than "artist" potters.
Did I suggest that anyone needed to apologize for being a craftsman or
potter? I certainly don't recall making such a suggestion, nor would I
ever consciously do so. And I don't think anyone should have to
apologize for being an artist either. I'm not sure why some of us feel
the need to make such a point of distinguishing between the two
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
Lee Love on fri 28 nov 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jensen"
> What? Potters aren't artists?
The ones who are not in the 98% that didn't quit? :^) Me, I
am a craftsman potter.
I think a person's attitude is very important, both about
themselves and their work. It really frames your creative life.
I remember when I first met my late Zen teacher. When somebody
tried to call him a "Zen Master", he replied, "I am just a simple monk."
When I made my first trip back to Japan in '93, I recall
coming back to my late Uncle's home and being served a spectacular dinner
that he prepared himself. (My Uncle was an unusual Japanese man for his
age, he did all the cooking in his home.) My wife Jean and I told him what
a wonderful cook he was and he replied, "I'm not a very good cook. I am
just a simple shopkeeper." Immediately, we both recalled our Zen
teacher's words.
This also is reflected in Hamada saying that he was not an
artist, but a craftsman. And that the craftsman only has his character.
This parallels Einstein's comment: "Try not to become a man of success but
rather to become a man of value."
The concept of "artist" is pretty new, developed during
the Renaissance, along side the development of the merchant class. These
two things are inseparable and are bound together by money. I think many
people quit creative endeavors because they have false expectations related
to money and success. It is much like a kid going into basketball so they
can be a rich as Michael Jordan. Very few people are going to be able to
match these expectations.
But, to be a potter, you only have to make good pots.
There is no need to worry about wealth and celebrity status. And
hopefully, some of the pots you make will be good enough to be considered
art. Frankly, in the realm of functional pottery, viewed over the span
of 15,000 years of its existence, 99.9% of the makers who made what I would
call pots of artistic value did not know the concept of Artist.
--
Lee in Mashiko
"The pursuit of truth and beauty is a sphere of activity in which we are
permitted to remain children all our lives. ." -- Albert Einstein
http://Mashiko.org
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Lee Love on sat 29 nov 03
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jensen"
> Perhaps it is a difference in culture.
Absolutely. You would have been "on the mark" if you would have
stopped here. ;^)
Often, when there is a meeting of cultures, there is a synergy
created and something fresh and new comes out of the meeting. I
believe that Hamada and Leach's greatest gifts were the ability to see "the
other culture" in an open way. I think the attitude is rare now. I'll
write more about this later.
>In my culture
Which is not the same as what I experienced in the MidWest. One of
the reasons it has been "easier" for Jean and I to adjust to Japanese
culture, is because there are a lot of similarities with MidWest, especially
in Minnesota culture. America is diverse.
> if one is complimented on one's cooking, one politely accepts
>the compliment. It would be a bit of bad manners to say "oh, no!
>I'm not a good cook but only a humble shopkeeper." And not only
>bad manners but somewhat uppity as well.
I suppose we are talking "micro-culture" here. Everywhere I have ever
live, especially growing up in Detroit, it shows at the minimum, a lack of
judgment to speak unkindly about someone else's relatives. Especially if
they are dead :^). And double especially if you weren't there to
experience the situation.
In Japan, it is not proper to accept a compliment too quickly.
But if you ever listened to Garrison Keillor on Prairie Home, you know there
are similarities back there too.
> Personally, I don't think much about whether I'm an artist when I do
> what I do. People sometimes find it convenient to refer to me as an
> artist and that doesn't bother me. I don't feel the need to correct
> them or disabuse them of their possibly misguided view. To the extent
> of what the words mean to them, they are right.
You totally miss my point. I never said I don't accept other
people calling me an artist. I said, that I'd wager money that potters
and craftsmen fair better than the 98% figure mentioned in the original
message. And part of the reason is related to their training and their
craft focus. Art schools could learn from craft in this area.
The problem can seen in the original message, where art students are
compared to medical students. It is similar to a letter that appeared in
CM about 10 or 12 years ago, where the writer was wondering why, after
getting an MFA, he wasn't making the same salary as fellow students who
received a MBA going to school for fewer years.
Remember, the original post spoke about graduates from studio
arts programs. There are unrealistic expectations created, ones that don't
necessarily match the social reality related to the degree of art
appreciation in the public at large.
The other aspect is the fact that it is far easier for potters, and
most craft people making functional work, to sell their work than it is for
artists. It was very evident when we lived at the Northern Warehouse
Artists Cooperative in downtown St. Paul: During the Art crawls, craft
people would often sell all their work, while very few artist would sell any
of their work. Some of the craft people made a living from their work.
Almost no fine artists did. Photographers sometimes did, but often, they
made their money through what you'd consider their "craft work" and this
subsidized their "art work."
Some artists started taking cues from the craftspeople and
started making craft priced work: like cards, T-shirts, clothing, photo
reproductions, 'fridge magnets, etc. They did well with these things.
There are two simple factors that appeal to our puritan roots
about craft: #1. craft items tend to be inexpensive compared to "fine
art." #2. craft items tend to be "useful."
So, an obvious argument can be made, from my experience, that in
the ability to support one's self modestly, there is a big advantage in
craft, especially if you are not teaching.
Some of my favorite people are artists. I even married one.
But there are reasons why a craftsman's attitude might be helpful to both
potters and artists.
I'll try to write my essay on Hamada and craft tomorrow. It
influences my attitude about what I make. It wasn't arrived at lightly.
--
Lee in Mashiko
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own
rts. -- Albert Einstein
http://Mashiko.org
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John Jensen on sat 29 nov 03
Lee:
Thanks for clarifying your position. I find little in your words to
disagree with, and that little is trivial. I am always grateful to have
the opportunity to see so much of Japanese pottery culture through your
eyes. I'm sure I knew what you were talking about when you set potter's
apart from "artists," but indulged in a bit of friendly provocation.
But what was that about speaking unkindly of the dead? Did I miss
something?
Best wishes of the season.
John Jensen, Mudbug Pottery
mudbug@toadhouse.com , http://www.toadhouse.com
Kathy Forer on mon 9 aug 04
On Aug 7, 2004, at 1:01 PM, Lili Krakowski wrote:
> Cobalt has a consistency and versatility that is, in my experience,
> indestructible. Any newbie can get a nice blue glaze.
The insistent qualities of a glaze being "shiny," "solid" and "opaque"
are hard to ignore. There is no more reason for a solid cobalt to
elicit disdain than for a solid oxblood. I wonder if it has to do with
high regard for the color and low evaluation of the techniques
generally used. Maybe the color is too "drippy," maybe the clay too
heavy or clumsy. Maybe we just have higher expectations of blue.
> Then: there is--and I am not going to go into that again--a real bias
> for Korean/Japanese/Chinese pottery influences in the pottery
> "consciousness" in the US today, which I find regretable.
But most of the Victorian blue through which we became accustomed to
blue was porcelain directly from the east, or derivations and
influences thereof.
Then, too, there is the bias toward ancient Southwest pottery and its
influences on generations of recent potters. The various Mogollon, the
Hohokam and the Anasazi didn't seem to use any blue coloring at all
which I find
very curious given the current discussion.
Is it a problem with synthesizing a "mixed" palette of influences?
Kathy Forer
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