Dan and Joanne Taylor on fri 22 aug 97
Anyone wishing to approach potting as a business can make as good, if
not a better, an income as most any other business you might wish to
pursue. The operative word here is "business". Too many start potting
as an avocation but make no changes to the way they do things when
deciding to pot for a living. Therein lies the problem. How much can
you make? It's not impossible, nor uncommon for those who apply
themselves, to generate an income well in excess of $50,00 per year as a
potter. I am dismayed by the posts relating yet more stories about
teachers in academic institutions perpetuating the myth that you cannot
hope to survive financially making pots. For shame! I would suggest to
any young person considering a formal education in clay to first ask the
instructor what they think about potting for a living. If they
discourage same, look for another school. If you can't find a good one,
apprentice for a production potter who has disproved the myth. If anyone
would like more of my thoughts on this topic I refer you to an article
in the last issue of CONTACT magazine.
Surviving very nicely thank you in Medicine Hat Alberta.
Dan Tayor, Production Potter
Taylor Clayworks
Vince Pitelka on sat 23 aug 97
>I am dismayed by the posts relating yet more stories about
>teachers in academic institutions perpetuating the myth that you cannot
>hope to survive financially making pots. For shame! I would suggest to
>any young person considering a formal education in clay to first ask the
>instructor what they think about potting for a living. If they
>discourage same, look for another school. If you can't find a good one,
>apprentice for a production potter who has disproved the myth. If anyone
>would like more of my thoughts on this topic I refer you to an article
>in the last issue of CONTACT magazine.
I have to agree entirely with Dan. If you know of a university instructor
who tells people that you cannot make a living at pottery, PLEASE PUBLISH
HIS OR HER NAME ON THIS LIST. Such misdirection slams doors in the face of
the student. University education should open up a broad range of
possibilities. Any university educator who does otherwise should seek other
employment.
- Vince
>Surviving very nicely thank you in Medicine Hat Alberta.
>
>Dan Tayor, Production Potter
>Taylor Clayworks
>
Vince Pitelka - vpitelka@DeKalb.net
Home 615/597-5376, work 615/597-6801, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Dan and Joanne Taylor on sun 24 aug 97
Anyone wishing to approach potting as a business can make as good, if
not a better, an income as most any other business you might wish to
pursue. The operative word here is "business". Too many start potting
as an avocation but make no changes to the way they do things when
deciding to pot for a living. Therein lies the problem. How much can
you make? It's not impossible, nor uncommon for those who apply
themselves, to generate an income well in excess of $50,000 per year
as a potter. I am dismayed by the posts relating yet more stories about
teachers in academic institutions perpetuating the myth that you cannot
hope to survive financially making pots. For shame! I would suggest
to any young person considering a formal education in clay to first ask
the instructor what they think about potting for a living. If they
discourage same, look for another school. If you can't find a
good one, apprentice for a production potter who has disproved the
myth. If anyone would like more of my thoughts on this topic I refer
you to an article in the last issue of CONTACT magazine.
Surviving financially very nicely thank you in Medicine Hat Alberta.
Dan Tayor, Production Potter
Taylor Clayworks
freewill on tue 26 aug 97
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Such misdirection slams doors in the face of
> the student. University education should open up a broad range of
> possibilities. Any university educator who does otherwise should seek other
> employment.
> - Vince
That's exactly what I thought, at first. I seethed during the daily "don't
try (to make a living at this) at home" lectures, I argued valiantly (to
no avail) after class. I was so frustrated, this guy could not only
*prove* that there's just no dang way that you could make pots for a
living AND afford to have hot & cold running water in your tent, but you
didn't EVEN want to go to grad school....hell...he'd sent more than one
person off to grad school...and they never touched clay again, after that.
After three semesters of frustration and indecision about my own personal
future in clay, as it were, I decided to be really blunt and find out his
"game". I said: "Hey, don't you think you're being just a little bit
hypocritical, teaching us all how to throw and glaze and handbuild and
geting up to come in and watch/help with firings and mixing up glaze
batches and being so durn fussy about how we should strive for a high
quality of work, etc etc, and then you turn around and tell us that
there's no future in it?"
No, he didn't think so. He wasn't here to turn out potters. This place is
a *liberal arts* school, not an art institute. His job, AS DEFINED BY THE
UNIVERSITY is to enrich the experience of the students....to help them
learn to appreciate handcrafted items; to make them more knowledgable
consumers. Not to inspire the next Bernard Leach.
I think that it's too bad that he does his job so well as to *exclude* the
inspiring of the potters of the future. But I also understand that I was
shopping for oranges at a haircutting salon. Oooops!
So keep in mind that a university education is just that........controlled
by the university. If my teacher implemented a program which met my needs,
he'd be out of a job.
-jenni
Erin Hayes on sat 30 aug 97
Hello all!
I have kept silent about all this blacklist/whitelist/potting for a
living stuff, but I think that Rafael's words have inspired me to add a
few thought to the discussion.
Some might say I am a hypocrite, because I teach clay, but I don't have
to make a living at working in it. Sometimes that is a blessing and
sometimes a burden. I do a lot more teaching that making claywork.
One of the things I find unspoken so far in this discussion is the
understanding of the *need* to make art (although Lee Love did post that
wonderful Warren MacKenzie quote).
If I learned nothing else by coming to clay after I had done a lot of
grad school in Anthropology already, it was that no matter what I did in
my life, art was always going to be a part of it. When I took a clay
class, I suddenly knew. And I had to dump all the preconceptions of
"making a living" that had driven me away from art as an undergrad.
Of course by then I knew I had to make a living at something, but I
guess I had realized that I would find a way to do that somehow. It was
making things that mattered to my soul, and my soul that mattered most.
I tell my students now that it is hard to make a living as an artist. I
have known production potters who keep incredible hours and work harder
than I know how. But they are professionals, and I can't believe they
keep any better hours than lawyers, even if they make less money.
But although it is hard to be an artist (no matter what the medium), I
really do think that some people *must* be artists. I tried to deny it
in myself and here I am anyway, twelve years later, with more mileage,
but *much, much* happier. As long as you impress upon your students the
need for realism in the business sense, I think they can see the
possibilities - good and bad - for themselves.
Any person who would go into a career in art without understanding the
social and economic circumstances is waiting for disappointment. We
have to be realistic but understand in ourselves and in our students
when the "real thing" is happening, and encourage it into a profitable
direction, whether business or self-fulfillment.
Just my opinion from the ivory tower, of course.
Erin.(whose fingers are still burning from mincing jalapenos last
night.)
Rick Sherman on sat 30 aug 97
As in any endeavor, there is considerable risk in making a living as
a potter. No teacher, parent or advisor can competently predict
success in any profession. The best we can do if offer profiles and
alternative and, perhaps, some strategies. I know many potters who
make a good living and hear and read about others. Besides skill and
talent, there are factors of marketing, timing, location, good
business management, and a generous serving of persistence.
In, 1992, in response to legislation which taxed potters for making
and selling work in California in order to test for lead in tableware,
I ran a random sample of more than 300 potters. Who sold work in the
the state. Although 5 years old, these figures might provide some
information.
Annual net sales showed this distribution:
minus $0 - $0 9.9%
$1K - $5K 36.3%
$5+K - $10K 16.5%
$10+K - $15K 15.6%
$15+K - $20K 8.5%
$20+K - $30K 7.5%
$30+K - $40K 2.4%
$40+K 3.3%
Sales of tableware as % of income:
25% or less 29.5%
25% - 50% 17.5%
50% - 75% 23.5%
75% plus 29.5%
More than 1/2 make 50% or more selling to galleries or shops. 75%
participate in 1 - 5 craft shows in California.
Many reported making pots because they liked it. None called it a
hobby. A good proportion augmented their income by teaching part time
or with some other job. None said they did not enjoy their way of
life. Adjust for inflation and a new political order.
Rick Sherman
California Crafts Network
San Jose, CA
Susan L. Ross on mon 29 sep 97
Hi All --
I've just completed the first of a 2-day workshop for marketing one's craft,
and I just wanted to say that I've gotten a ton of information -- all
pertinent to this business of potting: initial product development...
pricing... "terms"... credit card sales... press packets... bookkeeping...
retail v. wholesale... salesmanship... introducing new product...
photography... display... methods of jury selection -- it appears to be
never-ending!
As a newcomer to the arena of selling my craft armed with a fine arts degree
from art school, I can't emphasize enough the need to include in a school's
curriculum classes and workshops dedicated to this business of potting...
Su
RubySuMoon@aol.com
Potting in Piedmont CA
"We should learn from the mistakes of others -- we don't have time to make
them all ourselves!"
Jim Cullen on wed 15 oct 97
Could you give us more information about the 2 day workshop...what was it
called, where was it, will it be offered again, does it travel around the
counrty? Whatever info you could pass on would be appreciated. Thanks
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