Jonathan Kirkendall on wed 19 feb 97
Good morning all!
I have recently been asked to take part in a "Dharma Art Installation" at
Cooper Union in NYC. This installation will include calligraphy, banners,
and two ikibana flower arrangements, one large and one small. I have been
asked if I would make the containers for the ikibana arrangements. I have
experience throwing tall pots but not as tall or as wide as they need: 10"
wide at the bottom, 27" tall. My questions: How much clay would one need to
throw something like that in one piece, and is it feasable; if not, is it
best to throw it in sections and attach the sections, or to throw, let it set
up, and add coils and throw them? I am experimenting even as I send this
out. If any one does this regularly and can provide suggestions, I would
appreciate it.
Thanks!
Jonathan in Yonkers, where is feels like Spring but looks like the dead of
Winter.
June Perry on thu 20 feb 97
Jonathan:
You can either throw in sections or throw one section to your throwing
capacity and let it firm up a bit and add thick coils and pull up. Keep doing
that till you get what ou want.
If you throw in sections, I find it helps to have your edges at opposite
angles, rather than two flat edges meeting. It helps to make a good join. I
learned that from Karen Karnes years ago.
Regards,
June
Julia M. Townsend on thu 20 feb 97
At 10:43 AM 2/19/97 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>snip>
My questions: How much clay would one need to throw something like that in
one piece, and is it feasable; if not, is it best to throw it in sections
and attach the sections, or to throw, let it set up, and add coils and throw
them?
>snip>
>Jonathan in Yonkers, where is feels like Spring but looks like the dead of
>Winter.
>
Jonathan,
I have had great luck throwing in sections and attaching. I start with
4-5lbs (all I can do with any success) leaving the walls a little thick
especially at the top, then measure the top with calipers. I then throw the
next section the same day, the top section having no bottom and leave both
attached to the bats. The next day I attach the second section to the
bottom, cut it from the bat and go from there. I have done this using 3
sections (3 days) and a total of approx. 15 lbs. of clay and have gotten
approx. 27" tall. Collaring the top into a vase was the most difficult
without losing the whole thing. I keep my work in progress inside a ware
cart incased in plastic sheeting to control the drying process.
Hope this helps!
JuliA in Grand Rapids where it feels like spring! (today anyway)
mary roehm on thu 20 feb 97
coil throw it; it's easier on your body too.
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Good morning all!
> I have recently been asked to take part in a "Dharma Art Installation" at
> Cooper Union in NYC. This installation will include calligraphy, banners,
> and two ikibana flower arrangements, one large and one small. I have been
> asked if I would make the containers for the ikibana arrangements. I have
> experience throwing tall pots but not as tall or as wide as they need: 10"
> wide at the bottom, 27" tall. My questions: How much clay would one need to
> throw something like that in one piece, and is it feasable; if not, is it
> best to throw it in sections and attach the sections, or to throw, let it set
> up, and add coils and throw them? I am experimenting even as I send this
> out. If any one does this regularly and can provide suggestions, I would
> appreciate it.
> Thanks!
> Jonathan in Yonkers, where is feels like Spring but looks like the dead of
> Winter.
>
Cobalt1994@aol.com on fri 21 feb 97
A good way to throw a tall pot in 2 sections is to throw the bottom half,
leaving a rim that is thick and has a slant to it. Take it off the wheel and
let it get soft leather hard. Don't cut off the bat. Then throw the top
section leaving the walls a little thick and not cutting it off the bat. Make
the rim the same measurement as the rim of the first section. These 2 will go
together since you will flip the second thrown piece upside down to join it
to the first. The second piece should also have a slanted rim. Then when you
join the 2 together they will lock together. Once the 2 are together, cut the
second piece from its bat and throw the top(which was on the bat) into a
rim. The bottom piece will be harder than the top, so you have to compensate
in your form, figuring that the top will shrink more. Try it...
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Jennifer in Vermont
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
Cobalt1994@AOL.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Akita-jin \"Lee Love\" on fri 21 feb 97
One way to help boost your skill level if you are trying to throw higher
than you are used to is to throw a bottomless cylinder on a bat with a
goodly amount of clay, then set it aside for top to dry a bit. Throw
a disk to put on the top after both dry a little (the top will now become
the bottom.) You then cut the cylinder off, turn it upside down and
throw the thick part that is now the top the rest of the way. You have
to make sure the bottom is dry enough to hold the weight of the new top.
It is good to wrap the bottom with plastic so only the top drys.
At a workshop, John Reeves said he looked at several museum pieces of
tall old English pitchers ( you know, the ones with the pinching at the
bottoms) and this is how he speculates that they were thrown. A museum
curator asked him to look at these pots and figure out what technique was
used to make them.
I've thrown this way when I needed to dry large clyinders quickly.
Because the bottoms dry first there is less chance for them to crack.
Good Luck,
Lee
/(o\ Lee Love In St. Paul, MN Come see some pixs of my AkitaPup:
\o)/ mailto:Ikiru@juno.com http://www.millcomm.com/~leelove
LeeLove@millcomm.com "You can observe a lot by watching."
.. -Yogi Berra-
JENNY LEWIS on sat 22 feb 97
Julia, and Jonathan,
When you stick sections together and then need to collar the top into
a vase ... would it be easier to do the top part in reverse - in
other words, make that part a bowl, say, and then turn a footring as
if it were a bowl but instead of being careful about not making a
hole through the base, you deliberately go straight through. I
found this quite nerve racking the first time I tried it, as it
seemed to go against everything that turning normally requires!
Anyway, then you trim inside what would have been the footring, a
bit awkward as you seem to be working back to front, and the
footring becomes the neck of the vase. You then stick this completed
top section on to the rest of it.
I've just re-read that, and can assure you - it's _much_ easier to do
than to describe!
I've made a few vases this way. One plus I've found, is that the
new turned rim is always much neater than my thrown rims normally
are. What an admission!
Jonathan - does it have to be a tall thrown pot? How about coiling?
Unless you really hate coiling of course, in which case, naaah.
Jenny Lewis
Secretary to John M Stopford
London Business School
Tel: +44 171 262 5050
Fax: +44 171 724 7875
e-mail: jlewis@lbs.lon.ac.uk
KDrescherg on sat 22 feb 97
Jack Troy has a method of throwing large pots that I have used. It is a
bit tricky to work out but with practice it is a good challange. Throw two
cylinders about elbow high or more if you are daring. They must be very
straight and even with no flaws. Let them set up a bit then carefully
center one on top of the other --this is the tricky part -- join and
recenter shape. Go slow!!
Good luck. This is tricky but very worthwhile.
Tadeusz Westawic on sat 22 feb 97
I have been able to eliminate a great deal of the time required for the
lower portions of sectional pots to set-up before attaching and working
the upper section(s).
Get Sam's Wrap at Wal-Mart and cut the roll into thirds giving you three
4"-wide rolls of stretchy, thich plastic wrap. Cut carefully and don't
let the cut edge get ragged or it will tear at the ragged parts when you
use it as described later. I use a long, sharp, non-serrated bread knife
on the bread board in the kitchen. Lay the roll on the bread board,
apply down pressure with the knife edge, and roll the roll with the
knife, cutting through only several layers of wrap at a time. Be careful
to meet the start of your cut with the end of your cut as smoothly as
possible. Once you have a groove going, continue to roll and cut until
you are through the paper core.
After throwing the bottom section on a bat, I trim the top at a 45
degree bevel slanting inward toward the inside of the pot. I use a steel
guitar string on a coping saw frame to cut the bevel. The thin wire
produces almost no drag, and the tightening screw in the handle insures
a tight wire. It makes music when you pluck it. Before removing the bat
with the lower section, make sure it is as true to circular as possible,
and take the normal caliper measurement. Then carefully set it aside and
throw the second section.
After throwing the second section, cut a bevel at the lip at 45 degrees
slanted outward toward the outside of the pot. Do the scoring with fork
or whatever you normally use, and restore to circular before careful
removal of bat with section still attached from wheelhead.
Reattach first bat and first section to wheelhead and restore to
circular at bevel. Bandage section with the plastic wrap starting from
bottom and spiralling and overlapping and working upwards, using foot
control on wheel. Put tension on plastic wrap as you work, but not so
much as to deform the piece or cause stress tearing or excessive
wrinkling of the wrap. Ease-up on the tension within 2 inches or so of
the beveled lip as it will change the diameter if you are too tight.
Wrap it to within one half inch of the bevel.
Now score the bevel on the wrapped section in your preferred technique
(scoring now can restore any diameter you lost due to wrap tightening),
wet it and carefully attach the second section in the normal manner. I
prefer the three-step ladder and mirror technique. Cut off the top bat
and proceed as for any sectional pot but leave the wrap on the bottom
section. You can rib the joint over the plastic, but metal ribs tear it
up. You can peel back or unwrap to expose more of joint if you need to.
I leave the wrap on until the pot is finished, then I use the reverse
switch to peel it all off. You don't want the wrap left on too long or
the sections will get out of synch in the drying process and you'll get
an uneven profile. I've never left the wrap on overnight.
Sure, I've lost some pots during attaching, but mostly due to botched
mating of the bevels and only one that collapsed inward (the wrap
prevents only outward failure of the weight-bearing sections). I am
still amazed that none of them ever collapsed after reomoval of the wrap
(knock on wood).
I used to use the Tashiko Takiezu (sp?) technique in the Penland book,
burning paper in the bottom section. But I would always get the profile
discontinuities caused by uneven drying of the sections. I find the wrap
technique allows the sections to be far closer in moisture content at
the time of joining and drying.
Do two dozen in this technique and you'll know as much as I do.
Tadzu
Tony Hansen on sun 23 feb 97
Cobalt1994@aol.com wrote:
> A good way to throw a tall pot in 2 sections is to throw the bottom half,
> leaving a rim that is thick and has a slant to it.
I find putting a v-shape grove in one half and v-shaped point on the other
half makes the join easier.
--
=================================================================
Tony Hansen, IMC - Get INSIGHT 5 beta or The Magic of Fire II at
http://digitalfire.com or http://www.ceramicsoftware.com
Fay & Ralph Loewenthal on sun 23 feb 97
I attended a workshop some years back, that was given
by one South Africa's top potters. He throws pots up to
70 kilograms (1 kilogram = 2.254 Lbs) in weight. The
height could be over 4 feet. He first centres 5Kgs,
11 Lbs and then another 5 Kgs on top of the first.
He opens and pulls up this 10 Kgs to form a solid base.
From there on he adds sausages of 5Kgs each, that
are long enough to complete the circumference of the
pot. He dries out the clay he has just thrown by using
a gas blowtorch on the pot while it is turning. He uses
the blowtorch on the inside and outside to get even
drying of the pot.
There a few other potters here in SA who use the same
method. There is one who takes 25 Kgs straight from
the pugmill, with some of the clay hanging over his
shoulder, and throws it. Amazing what some of these
potters get up to.
Hope this helps Ralph
Ken Nordling on mon 24 feb 97
For those of you interested in seeing Sheldon Carey's
"upside down" wheel for throwing very tall forms,
the third edition of Glenn Nelson's CERAMICS, A
Potter's Handbook, has a photo of him using the
wheel.
The first edition of Nelson's book shows more
detail of the wheel, plus a photo of a 34 inch pot
thrown on it by Carey. As the text explains, this
wheel is not meant for the novice, but rather
for those of a more inventive mind.
I know Sheldon Carey and he is one neat guy.
He is retired now and those students who worked
with him were fortunate indeed.
Jo Nordling
Dan c Tarro on tue 25 feb 97
I have missed a few of the entry on this thread so please forgive me if
this has been mentioned.
I have done a lot of large pieces in the past and have gotten away from
it recently. One of the things that I found useful in throwing in two
pieces was to use bats to match the sizes where the cylinders joined.
The bottom cylinder was thrown upside down without a bottom, clay
stretched to the limit of the outside of the bat and then thrown to what
would become the bottom of the piece. The top would be then thrown on
another bat that would have the same diameter but right side up. The
clay on the top piece would also be stretched out to the limit of the
diameter of the bat and thrown. Leather hard the two would be removed
from the bats and joined. Seeing that the two pieces were thrown on the
same size bats made it easy to match sizes of cylinder diameters.
Production was made easier.
This method is especially nice when making larger Greek style water and
oil jars with their pointed bottoms.
Dan Tarro
Oak Tree Stoneware
Ham Lake, Mn
On Sat, 22 Feb 1997 08:48:46 EST KDrescherg writes:
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>Jack Troy has a method of throwing large pots that I have used. It is
>a
>bit tricky to work out but with practice it is a good challange. Throw
>two
>cylinders about elbow high or more if you are daring. They must be
>very
>straight and even with no flaws. Let them set up a bit then carefully
>center one on top of the other --this is the tricky part -- join and
>recenter shape. Go slow!!
>
>Good luck. This is tricky but very worthwhile.
>
Kathy McDonald on tue 4 mar 97
Tony Hansen wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Cobalt1994@aol.com wrote:
> > A good way to throw a tall pot in 2 sections is to throw the bottom half,
> > leaving a rim that is thick and has a slant to it.
>
> I find putting a v-shape grove in one half and v-shaped point on the other
> half makes the join easier.
>
> --
> =================================================================
> Tony Hansen, IMC - Get INSIGHT 5 beta or The Magic of Fire II at
> http://digitalfire.com or http://www.ceramicsoftware.com
Also...i find setting the two pieces up a bit with a paintstrippers
heat gun works wonders for the joining process...just make sure not to
hold the gun in any one place very long...best to keep your wheel
moving.
This set-up method works really well for me. I am an impatient
time starved potter.
Kathy McD
Cindy on wed 5 mar 97
Kathy wrote:>
> Also...i find setting the two pieces up a bit with a paintstrippers
> heat gun works wonders for the joining process...just make sure not to
> hold the gun in any one place very long...best to keep your wheel
> moving.
>
***I use the heat gun, or, alternatively, a propane torch. Watch out using
that heat gun too near your bat, tho! It looks a lot like a blow drier, but
it's almost as hot as the torch.
This month's CM shows a woman building a paper fire in a pot to dry it. I
assume she's outdoors.
Cindy
Dannon Rhudy on wed 5 mar 97
Cindy,
"outdoors" not necessarily a valid assumption...we used to make
paper fires in big pots in undergrad studio (while no authority
around, at least) just to see if it might work...and it was fun,
besides, and rather stupid,smoke everywhere, and we enjoyed it a
lot. All that pyromania coming to the fore...
Dannon Rhudy
potter@koyote.com
>
This month's CM shows a woman building a paper fire in a pot to
dry it. I
assume she's outdoors.
Cindy
Teresa Murphy(TMurphy889@aol.com) on thu 6 mar 97
Toshiko Takaezu used to conduct large workshops for adults and children alike
and burned newspapers to quickly set up her works in progress. As far as I
know, most of these were conducted inside.
Murphy
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