kaori fujitani on mon 29 sep 97
The studio where I work has an opportunity to buy a used Walker Pug Mill.
Is this really an opportunity -- are they still being made, what is price
of one new and does anyone have an opinion about this pug mill?
Your guidance is appreciated. My e-mail address is fujitani@slip.net if
you would like to post a reply off of the listserv. Thanks and regards.
Kaori in San Francisco
David Hendley on tue 30 sep 97
We used a Walker pug mill in college.
It was well-made and dependable.
In those days it was possible to put your hands in the extra large
"chopping" area where you put the clay - dangerous.
But I think they added safety devices years ago for that.
BUT, compared to a new de-airing pug mill,
it seems like somewhat of a dinosaur.
It is S-L-O-W.
The shaft has a very low RPM, and the resulting
rectangular extrusion is not very large.
if the choice is NO pug mill, or a Walker,
definitely GO FOR IT!
Price a new Venco de-airing pug mill for reference.
I'm sure you will then think you are getting a good buy.
David Hendley
At 12:13 AM 9/29/97 EDT, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>The studio where I work has an opportunity to buy a used Walker Pug Mill.
>
>Is this really an opportunity -- are they still being made, what is price
>of one new and does anyone have an opinion about this pug mill?
>
>Your guidance is appreciated. My e-mail address is fujitani@slip.net if
>you would like to post a reply off of the listserv. Thanks and regards.
>
>Kaori in San Francisco
>
>
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
See David Hendley's Pottery Page at
http://www.sosis.com/hendley/david/
Louis Katz on tue 30 sep 97
=3C/NOFILL=3E
-------------------
Walkers are awful, and dangerous. They do not De-air and do not mix
well enough to use the clay on one pass. If I were to buy a pugmill ,
a Walker would not be a choice I would make except to get the motor
and gearbox.
Louis
off clayart
mel jacobson on fri 13 oct 00
josh at mile high ceramics in denver, bought out all
the remaining parts for that pug mill....it would be
a question if any remain.
in most cases i have found that graingers has some
of the parts generic over the counter.
when you break down the parts of most things we use
in the pottery, electric motors, switches, pillow blocks, bearings, seals
etc. you will find that they are purchased on the open market
and can be replaced the same way.
just in front of rhodes' clay and glazes for the potter on my
book shelf is the `grainger catolog`.
mel
i am sure graingers is on line.
FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
Earl Brunner on sun 15 oct 00
My Walker Pugmill is stainless steel, in nearly new
condition. but it had been sitting out in the weather for
years. When I bought it, I replaced all the wiring and some
of the switches. An electrical shop reinsulated the windings
inside the motor. Mine had all the safety stuff on it (keyed
switch, shut off bar across the front and a top screen. I
consider the top screen more of a hazard than a help and
removed it. I keep the switch locked at all times and the
shut off bar is functional. I don't consider it any less
safe than any other piece of equipment with moving parts. (I
have worried about my toes more than once around the Soldner
mixer) It's not the type of equipment that students should
be running in my opinion though. The liability issue has
become much too serious in recent years.
We had one like it years ago when I was in college. The one
in college got a lot of use and some of the blades on the
shaft had to be remade and welded on. A competent welder
should be able to do the stainless part if need be.
Bearings, gearbox, etc. you should be able to get at
Graingers or a good machine shop.
mel jacobson wrote:
>
> josh at mile high ceramics in denver, bought out all
> the remaining parts for that pug mill....it would be
> a question if any remain.
>
> in most cases i have found that graingers has some
> of the parts generic over the counter.
>
> when you break down the parts of most things we use
> in the pottery, electric motors, switches, pillow blocks, bearings, seals
> etc. you will find that they are purchased on the open market
> and can be replaced the same way.
>
> just in front of rhodes' clay and glazes for the potter on my
> book shelf is the `grainger catolog`.
>
> mel
> i am sure graingers is on line.
>
> FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Marcia Selsor on mon 16 oct 00
Hi, Mel and Earl,
Grainger is online. We have a Walker at MSU-B dating back to the late
sixties. Only had to repair it once when someone was using some type of
scraper AS IT WAS RUNNING!!! and bent the blades. Had to have new blades
in a couple of places. It does have a safety bar. The blades are razor
sharp. We used it for mixing porcelain because I didn't like the idea of
students cleaning it to change clay bodies. Never failed to see bloody
fingers. I hung a sign above it "JAWS III". They are dangerous.
Marcia
Earl Brunner wrote:
>
> My Walker Pugmill is stainless steel, in nearly new
> condition. but it had been sitting out in the weather for
> years. When I bought it, I replaced all the wiring and some
> of the switches. An electrical shop reinsulated the windings
> inside the motor. Mine had all the safety stuff on it (keyed
> switch, shut off bar across the front and a top screen. I
> consider the top screen more of a hazard than a help and
> removed it. I keep the switch locked at all times and the
> shut off bar is functional. I don't consider it any less
> safe than any other piece of equipment with moving parts. (I
> have worried about my toes more than once around the Soldner
> mixer) It's not the type of equipment that students should
> be running in my opinion though. The liability issue has
> become much too serious in recent years.
> We had one like it years ago when I was in college. The one
> in college got a lot of use and some of the blades on the
> shaft had to be remade and welded on. A competent welder
> should be able to do the stainless part if need be.
> Bearings, gearbox, etc. you should be able to get at
> Graingers or a good machine shop.
>
> mel jacobson wrote:
> >
> > josh at mile high ceramics in denver, bought out all
> > the remaining parts for that pug mill....it would be
> > a question if any remain.
> >
> > in most cases i have found that graingers has some
> > of the parts generic over the counter.
> >
> > when you break down the parts of most things we use
> > in the pottery, electric motors, switches, pillow blocks, bearings, seals
> > etc. you will find that they are purchased on the open market
> > and can be replaced the same way.
> >
> > just in front of rhodes' clay and glazes for the potter on my
> > book shelf is the `grainger catolog`.
> >
> > mel
> > i am sure graingers is on line.
> >
> > FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> > http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
> --
> Earl Brunner
> http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
> mailto:bruec@anv.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/spain99.html
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/selsor/welcome.html
Earl Brunner on mon 16 oct 00
Marcia Selsor wrote:
>
> Hi, Mel and Earl,
> Grainger is online. We have a Walker at MSU-B dating back to the late
> sixties. Only had to repair it once when someone was using some type of
> scraper AS IT WAS RUNNING!!! and bent the blades. Had to have new blades
> in a couple of places. It does have a safety bar. The blades are razor
> sharp.
The blades get sharp as they wear down, you could have a
welder run a bead of stainless weld down the fron of the
blades to dull them and build them up a little.
> We used it for mixing porcelain because I didn't like the idea of
> students cleaning it to change clay bodies. Never failed to see bloody
> fingers.
Hey, I only cut myself a couple of times, and the peice of
two by four that I used that bent the blade wasn't at your
school.
> I hung a sign above it "JAWS III". They are dangerous.
It is sort of a hybrid between a modern pugmill and a clay
mixer, I just don't think it's any more dangerous than any
of the others when you circumvent the safety features.
The soldner mixer at the art center needs the safety switch
fixed on the lid. It doesn't shut off anymore when the lid
is lifted. Just as dangerous.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Earl Brunner on mon 16 oct 00
vince pitelka wrote:
>
>
> Earl -
> This worries me. The Walker Pugmill is extremely dangerous, especially for
> anyone who does not "consider it any less safe than any other piece of
> equipment with moving parts." I don't know where this came from, but I know
> you are too intelligent to really think such a thing. If you are the only
> one who uses this pugmill, then you are the only one who is risking your
> life, and that is your choice. The Walker runs so smooth and silent, and
> that is deceptive, because if your arm gets caught in the blades, the
> machine will not even slow down a bit. If you are constantly aware of how
> incredibly dangerous that open hopper is, and all of your movements around
> the pugmill are done with that in mind, then you will be fine. If you EVER
> let anyone else use the pugmill, then you could be held liable, and you
> could loose everything.
I'm not an idiot, I was saying that ALL equipment with
moving parts are dangerous. That is still true. The safety
shut off on the lid to my Soldner mixer at the art center is
broken, you can lift the lid and it keeps running. Whether
people disable safety features or they malfunction, they
don't always work all the time. For that very reason NOBODY
is going to use my pugmill but me. I don't put my hands in
the hopper. I don't walk around on sloppy messy floors.
>
> The real danger comes when someone is recycling slurry, and is careless
CARELESS is the operative word here.
> about spilling water and/or slurry in front of the machine. One slip, and
> the arms fly out, possibly ending up in the hopper. This is how some of
> those accidents occured that spelled the end of the Walker Company.
>
> You said "I have worried about my toes more than once around the Soldner
> mixer." Come on, Earl. Comparing this to the dangers of the Walker pugmill
> is irresponsible.
It is not, I have big feet and I find them under that thing
right at the chain drive all the time. You are suggesting
that I needn't worry about that?
To my knowledge, no one has ever been injured operating a
> Soldner mixer. You would have to really go out of your way to entangle
> yourself in the workings of the Soldner mixer.
So using my scenario above, the shut off switch doesn't turn
the Soldner off when the lid is up. Clay is being mixed
with the lid up, we have sloppy mess on the floor,
"careless" is the word you used... Still safe????
Best wishes-
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
vince pitelka on mon 16 oct 00
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Brunner
To:
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: walker pug mills
> My Walker Pugmill is stainless steel, in nearly new
> condition. but it had been sitting out in the weather for
> years. When I bought it, I replaced all the wiring and some
> of the switches. An electrical shop reinsulated the windings
> inside the motor. Mine had all the safety stuff on it (keyed
> switch, shut off bar across the front and a top screen. I
> consider the top screen more of a hazard than a help and
> removed it. I keep the switch locked at all times and the
> shut off bar is functional. I don't consider it any less
> safe than any other piece of equipment with moving parts. (I
> have worried about my toes more than once around the Soldner
> mixer) It's not the type of equipment that students should
> be running in my opinion though. The liability issue has
> become much too serious in recent years.
Earl -
This worries me. The Walker Pugmill is extremely dangerous, especially for
anyone who does not "consider it any less safe than any other piece of
equipment with moving parts." I don't know where this came from, but I know
you are too intelligent to really think such a thing. If you are the only
one who uses this pugmill, then you are the only one who is risking your
life, and that is your choice. The Walker runs so smooth and silent, and
that is deceptive, because if your arm gets caught in the blades, the
machine will not even slow down a bit. If you are constantly aware of how
incredibly dangerous that open hopper is, and all of your movements around
the pugmill are done with that in mind, then you will be fine. If you EVER
let anyone else use the pugmill, then you could be held liable, and you
could loose everything.
The real danger comes when someone is recycling slurry, and is careless
about spilling water and/or slurry in front of the machine. One slip, and
the arms fly out, possibly ending up in the hopper. This is how some of
those accidents occured that spelled the end of the Walker Company.
I agree about liability. People seem poised to sue for any stupid reason,
and altogether too often they win a judgement, regardless of how silly their
case really is. But in this case, the pugmill really WAS incredibly
dangerous, and the only things Walker came up with were the shutoff bar, the
awkward screen lid, and the safety key switch. They could easily have
altered the shape and increased the size of the hopper, making the blades
less exposed. I hate to say it, but if they could not come up with a better
design, they deserved to go out of business.
You said "I have worried about my toes more than once around the Soldner
mixer." Come on, Earl. Comparing this to the dangers of the Walker pugmill
is irresponsible. To my knowledge, no one has ever been injured operating a
Soldner mixer. You would have to really go out of your way to entangle
yourself in the workings of the Soldner mixer. I am not saying that it is
impossible, but the Soldner design is by far the safest on the market.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
vince pitelka on tue 17 oct 00
> It is sort of a hybrid between a modern pugmill and a clay
> mixer, I just don't think it's any more dangerous than any
> of the others when you circumvent the safety features.
> The soldner mixer at the art center needs the safety switch
> fixed on the lid. It doesn't shut off anymore when the lid
> is lifted. Just as dangerous.
Earl -
I really do not have a vendetta against Walkers, because they were always a
beautifully built piece of machinery. They just happen to be dangerous as
hell, and it is sad that they did not change with the times when people
became more safety conscious, and when our culture became so much more
litigious.
But please do not imply that the Soldner without the lid shutoff-switch
working is anywhere near as dangerous as the Walker. That is completely
ridiculous, as you well know. The Soldner is just a slow turning drum with
stationary bars, with no blades or sharp edges at all. If you fell
headfirst into the Soldner you would likely get badly scuffed up against the
concrete drum, but that would almost certainly be the extent of your
injuries. It is still essential to have the lid shut-off switch working,
because if someone got injured to ANY extent as is, you and your school
would be held liable. If the safety features are all working properly, and
someone is injured, the manufacturer is liable. It is a shame that it boils
down to that, but in this day and age, that is the reality.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Louis H.. Katz on tue 17 oct 00
Hi,
I don't really want to get caught up in this tangle, but
The exposed chain on the soldner with long flowing skirts or aprons is a potential
hazard. Whether the potential is big or small I do not know, its just there. I
warn my students about it. Walkers with an open hopper require another level of
care. This kind of care requires moment to moment "with-it-ness", like driving at
sixty without seat belts. Sooner or later people will be hurt. As to whether or
not Walkers rise to the functionality or hazards of cars, its your own guess. Feel
free to file my comments in the e-circular file.
Louis
You would have to really go out of your way to entangle
> > yourself in the workings of the Soldner mixer.
Jim V Brooks on tue 17 oct 00
When i asked for repair information for a Walker Pug Mixer..I didn't expect
to get everyones "opinion". Yes it is a dangerous machine.. and must be used
with great care.. So also is my car, my electric toaster,, my power saw, my
power drill, my lawn mower.. but i still use them.. So folks. stop with the
safety lectures. What i need is repair info...... Jim in Dallas.
Andrew Gardner on wed 20 feb 02
Anyone out there know of any abandoned or used Walkers? There is no vacuum
action, so none too popular these days. Plus they're monsters and a
son-of-a-bitch to move around.
Andy
vince pitelka on sun 24 feb 02
> Hi, I hope I'm responding correctly. I just signed up on clayart and
could'nt resist replying. I have a walker pug mill that was donated to me by
a local school district. Any suggestions ? Randy
Randy -
If you are fully aware of the dangers, they are great machines and can be
used quite safely. The important thing is to completely control their use,
and don't let anyone else near them. The newer ones had a key switch, and
you should keep the key in a safe place. If yours is one of the older ones,
install a key switch. Make sure that the shutoff bar in front is in good
working condition. Make sure that the floor around the mill always stays
dry while you are mixing clay. Avoid distractions. Concentrate on what you
are doing. The Walker works okay for mixing clay from dry materials, but it
is especially good for processing recycle. Unlike other pugmills, you can
put recycle slurry in the hopper and add drymix claybody, and produce good
clay. Other than this feature, it is slow and ponderous and no match for a
Bluebird non-deairing mill.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Bill Arnold on sun 24 feb 02
I would like to get in line if someone wants to get rid of their dangerous
Walker pug mill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Gardner"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:02 PM
Subject: Walker Pug Mills
> Anyone out there know of any abandoned or used Walkers? There is no
vacuum
> action, so none too popular these days. Plus they're monsters and a
> son-of-a-bitch to move around.
> Andy
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
GORMO1@AOL.COM on sun 24 feb 02
i love my walker pug! safety hell yes cutting grass, driving a 4000lb truck,
and if i slip and hit my head on the floor i will take the floor out and sue
the sucker that put it down! not to make light of safety people have to take
responsibility for themselves and stop looking for someone else to blame!
i hate "what if"
"what if" my hair was caught in the wheel while turning and pulled my
scalp
off do i sue the wheel maker ? "what if" i freeze to death does my family sue
my coat
maker? think about it.
jim gorman
In a message dated 2/24/02 11:41:06 AM, wilmer@XCELCO.ON.CA writes:
<< I would like to get in line if someone wants to get rid of their dangerous
Walker pug mill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Gardner"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 9:02 PM
Subject: Walker Pug Mills
> Anyone out there know of any abandoned or used Walkers? There is no
vacuum
> action, so none too popular these days. Plus they're monsters and a
> son-of-a-bitch to move around.
> Andy
> >>
Rowdy Dragon Pottery on sun 24 feb 02
>
>i love my walker pug! safety hell yes cutting grass, driving a 4000lb truck,
>and if i slip and hit my head on the floor i will take the floor out and sue
>the sucker that put it down! not to make light of safety people have to take
>responsibility for themselves and stop looking for someone else to blame!
>i hate "what if"
> "what if" my hair was caught in the wheel while turning and pulled my
>scalp off do i sue the wheel maker ? "what if" i freeze to death does my
>family sue
>my coat maker? think about it.
Jim, I did think about it. Manufacturers and vendors need to take personal
or corporate responsibility too. That our society may be too litigious or
that the courts devalue personal responsibility does not and should not
lessen our expectations of manufacturers and vendors to ensure that the
products they market are fully functional. For me, reasonable product
safety is a required component of functionality. Who among us on Clayart
would feel that their functional ware should be marketed and used if they
had not considered safety among our other functional considerations? Our
expectations are based on making a good product, not merely one that
accomplishes its main task. Should we shed those concerns when our role
shifts from producer and vendor to consumer?
Discussing whether products have failed to adequately consider safety is
productive--and isn't at all about looking to blame others. Raise safety
issues here and there is always someone who switches topics in just this
way. Why can't we look safety head on?
Neil Berkowitz
vince pitelka on sun 24 feb 02
> i love my walker pug! safety hell yes cutting grass, driving a 4000lb
truck,
> and if i slip and hit my head on the floor i will take the floor out and
sue
> the sucker that put it down! not to make light of safety people have to
take
> responsibility for themselves and stop looking for someone else to blame!
> i hate "what if"
> "what if" my hair was caught in the wheel while turning and pulled my
> scalp
> off do i sue the wheel maker ? "what if" i freeze to death does my family
sue
> my coat
> maker? think about it.
Well Jim, this is about as silly as can be. None of the examples you give
above have anything at all to do with the dangers of the Walker pugmill.
You can love your Walker pugmill. There is nothing wrong with that. You
know what the dangers and risks are. But the Walker pugmill has a
wide-gaping hopper with an unstoppable auger in the bottom. It is an
accident waiting to happen, and the manufacturer is liable for that.
Garrison Kiellor refers to this as "the age of litigation," and I agree with
him. People are ready to sue for the dumbest reasons, and they damn well
SHOULD take responsibilities for their actions when they do something dumb.
But the Walker is dangerous as hell, and the manufacturer was liable for
that.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Randy Blume on sun 24 feb 02
>
> From: vince pitelka
> Date: 2002/02/22 Fri PM 09:36:56 EST
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Walker Pug Mills
>
> > Anyone out there know of any abandoned or used Walkers? There is no
> vacuum
> > action, so none too popular these days. Plus they're monsters and a
> > son-of-a-bitch to move around.
>
> Plus they are incredibly dangerous, and should only be used by independent
> studio potters who know of the risks and do not let anyone else touch the
> machine.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Randy Blume on sun 24 feb 02
>
> From: vince pitelka
> Date: 2002/02/22 Fri PM 09:36:56 EST
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Walker Pug Mills
>
> > Anyone out there know of any abandoned or used Walkers? There is no
> vacuum
Hi, I hope I'm responding correctly. I just signed up on clayart and could'nt resist replying. I have a walker pug mill that was donated to me by a local school district. Any suggestions ? Randy
> > action, so none too popular these days. Plus they're monsters and a
> > son-of-a-bitch to move around.
>
> Plus they are incredibly dangerous, and should only be used by independent
> studio potters who know of the risks and do not let anyone else touch the
> machine.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Marcia Selsor on mon 25 feb 02
The Walker Pug Mill at MSU-Billings had an emergency crash bar below the
hopper that shut it off with a knee jerk. Still, I posted a sign above
it "JAWS III". It is a fine piece of equipment but students don't take
precautions and hence, the potential problem. The auger blades were
razor sharp stainless steel. Inevitably when cleaning I would slice a
finger when it was turned off!
They are work horses. The one at the University was old before I started
working there in 1975. It is still there.
Just my two cents.
Marcia Selsor in Montana
vince pitelka wrote:
>SNIP But the Walker pugmill has a
> wide-gaping hopper with an unstoppable auger in the bottom. It is an
> accident waiting to happen, and the manufacturer is liable for that.
> Garrison Kiellor refers to this as "the age of litigation," and I agree with
> him. People are ready to sue for the dumbest reasons, and they damn well
> SHOULD take responsibilities for their actions when they do something dumb.
> But the Walker is dangerous as hell, and the manufacturer was liable for
> that.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2002.html
Cheryl Fisher on mon 25 feb 02
All this talk about the Walker Pug Mills brings back memories. Back in the
late sixties when I was going to the University of Florida one of the first
stories that was told to us was to always have two people when using the
pugmill. Supposedly someone had gotten their arm or hair caught and was
pulled in. It was always implied that there was great damage done (like
death). I don't remember if it was a Walker. I never knew if it was a true
story to the University or one that was told because it had happened in
other places and was used to reinforce safety measures. I do remember being
mortified one day because one of the older (supposedly more experienced
students) had it filled to capacity and was standing on it.
Four or five years ago the person who taught me pottery as an adult became
the owner of a Walker pug mill because someone in the community had gone to
our school board auction and picked up one. She loves it but she is an
experienced potter and I believe there is always at least two or more people
present when it is used.
Cheryl F.
Sarasota, FL
cafish@comcast.net.
GORMO1@AOL.COM on mon 25 feb 02
Vince: you are the one that said if someone would slip on some slurry and
their hand got into the mill they would me torn off or something to that
affect. That is not the makers of the pugmill fault, that was the point.
I like to teach people to respect machines and learn how to use them
and not walk away in fear. Fear and respect are not same in any way!
If you respect something or someone because of fear you will never be in
harmony
with it.
jim gorman
Dave Finkelnburg on mon 25 feb 02
Jim,
There is a lot to what you say about harmony. We have too little of it
and are the worse for the lack.
We all have degrees of responsibility. Even the maker of a pug mill.
I have looked in the hopper of a Walker pug mill. I will not own one as
built. It needs a safety screen of some sort above the blades. I think
Vince has it right.
Regards,
Dave Finkelnburg in Idaho
From: GORMO1@AOL.COM
>Vince: you are the one that said if someone would slip on some slurry and
>their hand got into the mill they would me torn off or something to that
>affect. That is not the makers of the pugmill fault, that was the point.
>I like to teach people to respect machines and learn how to use them
>and not walk away in fear. Fear and respect are not same in any way!
>If you respect something or someone because of fear you will never be in
>harmony
>with it.
>jim gorman
vince pitelka on mon 25 feb 02
> Vince: you are the one that said if someone would slip on some slurry and
> their hand got into the mill they would me torn off or something to that
> affect. That is not the makers of the pugmill fault, that was the point.
Jim -
But Walker manufactured a pugmill with a wide-gaping hopper, drastically
increasing the chances that someone could fall hand-first into the mill.
That was profoundly irresponsible of them. The things are incredibly
dangerous because the auger is so completely exposed. We all make mistakes
occasionally, and those mistakes should not result in loss of a limb. It is
up to manufacturers to make their equipment as safe as possible. Come on
Jim, this is pretty obvious.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Earl Brunner on mon 25 feb 02
Depends a lot on how much if any of the original "safety" equipment is still installed on it.
Mine for example has a keyed switch. I'm the only one with the key. I took the bulky, useless screen off the top, but kept the kicker bar "OFF" switch.
I'm the only one that ever uses it, and I never put anything but clay in it unless it is turned off. Period. I like it, and I think it is relatively safe if used safely.
It's safer than most of the electric saws that I know, I treat it with the same respect that I would treat a chain saw. There are lots of dangerous tools out there. This one can be one of them. If
you are an idiot you can find any number of ways to kill yourself.
Randy Blume wrote:
> >
> > From: vince pitelka
> > Date: 2002/02/22 Fri PM 09:36:56 EST
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Walker Pug Mills
> >
> > > Anyone out there know of any abandoned or used Walkers? There is no
> > vacuum
>
> Hi, I hope I'm responding correctly. I just signed up on clayart and could'nt resist replying. I have a walker pug mill that was donated to me by a local school district. Any suggestions ? Randy
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Richard Aerni on tue 26 feb 02
> Jim -
> But Walker manufactured a pugmill with a wide-gaping hopper, drastically
> increasing the chances that someone could fall hand-first into the mill.
> That was profoundly irresponsible of them
Vince,
I'm not going to argue on this one...I agree that the Walker can be
dangerous and should be treated with respect. But the wide gaping hopper
has some redeeming factors as well. It allows the potter to perform a
greater array of tasks than other pug mills. You can mix from dry to pugged
clay in one step, for example. Other pug mills that I've tried over the
years, with the small openings, require the potter to have another piece of
equipment, namely a clay mixer, in order to pug up their clay. The Walker
also allowed the potter to mix in reclaim along with dry clays, a useful
function.
But given the fact that many programs have students mix their clays, and
given the exposure of the institutions, if I were teaching, I'd certainly
have a clay mixer and a safer pug mill. I've had a Walker since the late
70s, but no longer use it. In the end, I decided I much preferred to have a
clay company mix my clay body, as they could do a much better job, as long
as they took care and followed the recipe carefully (gotta throw that last
clause in there!). As others have said, all tools can be dangerous, but
they should be no more dangerous than they need be.
Richard Aerni
Bloomfield, NY...let's not talk about the machines I worked with when I
spent time in the paper mill!!
Dupre Mr Marcy M on tue 26 feb 02
Amen!
I have been following this discussion for a few days. And I feel the need
to add this: let's not forget the responsibility of the user.
There are many devices, machines, and chemicals in our studios that can turn
about and bite us, if WE are not careful. Should I sue the company that
processes and packages copper carbonate if my dog licks up a spill from the
floor and dies?
I don't think so.
Yes, all of us can imagine the worst possible situations where people COULD
beinjured, maimed, or killed in studio accidents. A small child COULD climb
into my electric kiln and close the lid during a game of hide 'n' Seek.
Some other kid COULD come along and accidently turn it on (IF i left the
circuit breaker on and the door to the box unlocked). The kid inside the
kiln COULD be roasted, calcined, and turned to iron calcite ash. It COULD
happen.
But it won't. For many reasons.
Stupidity has a way of weeding out the ones who shouldn't work with anything
more technologically advanced than a spoon.
Yes, the manufacturers have an inherent responsibility to include safety
considerations with the creation of their products. And the user, who
knowingly purchases the item, has a responsibility to use the product with
care, caution, and skill.
Someone who leaves liquid slip on the floor near a pug mill is asking to
learn to use a prosthetic. Someone who uses a bandsaw or a table saw,
without using a push stick is just asking to be called "Lefty" or "Stumpy."
We cannot, and I will not be responsible for someone else's stupidity.
Ignorance can be cured with education. Stupidity cannot.
Here endeth the rant.
Blessing to all,
Tig
Get Dirty!
RPeckham@COOKSONELECTRONICS.COM on tue 26 feb 02
Many machines that we use on a daily basis are extremely dangerous. That
is slowly going away. Due to the litigious nature of our society, and the
overabundance of people that Darwinism has skipped, machines are no longer
able to be designed that are dangerous, even more the pendulum has swung so
far to the other end that it makes me nauseous. We have guages that let
you know how big a hole in a cover can be so that if someone sticks a
finger, or arm in the hole no moving parts will hit it. I don't know about
you, but I don't stick my fingers, or hands, or arms in holes in moving
machinery, and protecting idiots to that level just makes them feel safe
doing stupid things all the time.
Now as Vince says the Walker pug mill is a great machine if you are
experienced, and careful, but it is not for institutional settings. I
agree, but I also feel that the rest of us are forced to pay for more
expensive machines, because idiots keep suing companies for their own
stupidity.
The machines that I work on are relatively dangerous. We run them in the
lab with no covers, or interlocks at all, and with the exception of a
couple of near morons have never had a problem. You know what's going to
move, stay away from it, however because of the nature of the market we
have to put $20,000 worth of covers, hoods, and interlocks on to make it
safe. It makes it safe, but it also makes it cumbersome to use, expensive,
and limits its capability.
I have been around old equipment all my life, a 1904 lane sawmill that my
dad owns, a 1903, 36" band saw, a single cylinder gas engine, with belt
driven gristmill, sawrig, and thickness planer all more or less 1900 era.
Those tools are all dangerous, no guards, no covers. In some instances we
made guards, but for the most part you know what moves, stay away from it.
If you don't know what moves stay completely away from it.
Bill Arnold on tue 26 feb 02
Vince
The Walker pug mill that I used for 25 yrs had an expanded Stainless screen
which covered the opening to the hopper. If this was not in place, the mill
would not function. With the screen in place it would be virtually
impossible to fall into the hopper. There is a name for the process of
operating dangerous equipment with safety devices disabled. It is called
natural selection.
----- Original Message ----- Bill
From: "vince pitelka"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: Walker Pug Mills
> > Vince: you are the one that said if someone would slip on some slurry
and
> > their hand got into the mill they would me torn off or something to that
> > affect. That is not the makers of the pugmill fault, that was the point.
>
> Jim -
> But Walker manufactured a pugmill with a wide-gaping hopper, drastically
> increasing the chances that someone could fall hand-first into the mill.
> That was profoundly irresponsible of them. The things are incredibly
> dangerous because the auger is so completely exposed. We all make
mistakes
> occasionally, and those mistakes should not result in loss of a limb. It
is
> up to manufacturers to make their equipment as safe as possible. Come on
> Jim, this is pretty obvious.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
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