Jack Phillips on fri 10 may 96
To Clayarters everywhere,
I would like to here some feedback from those of you that have a web site.
This new tool that we have, the www, is quite a novelty. But is it really
what we think it is? How does the average person actually access your web
page? Does the page generate email inquiries for your business? (Mine does
to a small degree). Are you using this as a tool to communicate more about
yourself, or show what you have to offer for sale? How has the "return on
the dollar" been for you, as it relates to the cost of programing vs.
response generated?
I also use my web page for a great online catalog, so it saves me the price
of expensive printing for color broshures. I felt that this list would be a
great place to discuss these issues with the people that use the web for
getting out ceramic information, and for marketing their wares. How has the
www been for you?
Jack Phillips
STONART Ceramic art
Portland, Oregon
Nicole Lallande MIPANA INT'L on fri 10 may 96
Hey Jack:
I have been a lurker to this group because by necessity my ceramics has
been relegated to the status of hobby as my focus has increased in other
areas of business. I apologise in advance if this post seems somewhat
commercial or innappropriate to this discussion list -- but you asked!
One of the ventures I have been involved with recently has been
ghost-writting a book on Internet Marketing with a marketing professional.
If I were to share one maxim with you it is that 'if you build it does
____not_____ mean they will come!' Internet marketing is a 'pro-active' as
well as interactive method. Rather than passive mass marketing techniques
we are familiar with such as yellow pages, newspaper advertising, leaflets
etc., internet marketing is defined more as 'micro marketing', or 'niche
marketing'.
If you want to sell, sell, sell with your web site you will need to develop
a carefully thought out marketing strategy. Fortunately, there is enough
history out there from those who are making money on the internet that a
system does exist. Will it work for art? You bet! Here in San Diego
there is an art dealer by the name of Pierrette Van Cleve. She owns a
gallery here called the Art Cellar. She developed and executed a very
successful on-line strategy -- so successful that the first month her web
site was up she made $35,000 in sales!
You can cut the cost way down by doing the programming yourself (I did
mine) -- it may not be very fancy, but it is not hard. HTML programming
guides are available on the internet and most word processing programs now
have HTML translators. It is more important to get people to your site and
keep them coming back.
If several other 'Clayart-ers' are interested, I would be interested in
starting a dialogue about creating a co-op web site -- one in which we
could exhibit work, share expense and share marketing responsibilities.
This may already exist -- if it doesn't, it should.
Anyway, visit my site at http://www.mipana.com/mipana/ and click on
Successful Internet Marketing for some other hints. If this information is
considered out of the perview of this discussion group, I would be happy to
discuss through personal e-mail.
Nicole
*******************************************************************************
Nicole Lallande
Joint Venture Market Broker --- Lover of Luminous Porcelain and High Texture
Ceramics
http://www.mipana.com/mipana/
mipana@mipana.com
*******************************************************************************
Don Jones on sat 11 may 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>To Clayarters everywhere,
>
>I would like to here some feedback from those of you that have a web site.
>This new tool that we have, the www, is quite a novelty. But is it really
>what we think it is? How does the average person actually access your web
>page? Does the page generate email inquiries for your business? (Mine does
>to a small degree). Are you using this as a tool to communicate more about
>yourself, or show what you have to offer for sale? How has the "return on
>the dollar" been for you, as it relates to the cost of programing vs.
>response generated?
>
>I also use my web page for a great online catalog, so it saves me the price
>of expensive printing for color broshures. I felt that this list would be a
>great place to discuss these issues with the people that use the web for
>getting out ceramic information, and for marketing their wares. How has the
>www been for you?
>
>Jack Phillips
>STONART Ceramic art
>Portland, Oregon
Jack
My web site has generated one sale since I uploaded it about a year ago. I
still think it's imortant tho because of its reference vaue.
http://www.indirect.com/www/claysky/inex.html
Dave Eitel on sat 11 may 96
>>I would like to here some feedback from those of you that have a web site.
I think for me right now it is "cool" to have a website, but I'm not
try8ing to sell anything.
How does the average person actually access your web
>>page?
I doubt if the averagae person does. My hope is to add an order form and
very lifited catalog--2-5 pieces--and then try to market the site to buyers
of corporate gifts, etc.
How has the "return on
>>the dollar" been for you, as it relates to the cost of programing vs.
>>response generated?
I am fortunate to have my page hosted free by a friend, so my out of pocket
expense has onlyi been to purchase software for creating the site, since I
didn't want to have to spend a lot of time learning html.
Later...Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI
daveitel@execpc.com
http://www.digivis.com/CedarCreek/home.html
Lee Jaffe on sun 12 may 96
I recently started up a WWW site for my brother's photography
business. I shopped around for a situation that would give
me the best combination of features at a price I could afford.
I've been creating WWW pages for work for more than two years
and I have access to a scanner and other tools I need to handle
graphics, so I wasn't looking for a "we'll do it for you" type
of situation.
I found a local Internet access shop that provides 100 hours
of connect time and 35MB of disk space for a flat fee of $25/mo.
I could set up a WWW page on their server, connect to the
Internet for up to 100 hours per month, and handle all of my
non-job email. In addition, for a one-time set-up fee, they
registered my own domain name. Ford Motor Co., the House of
Representatives, and me, on a level playing field.
In terms of any measure of cost effectiveness, it is really
hard to not be able to justify all this for only $25/month.
I suppose I could calculate the hidden costs, such as my
time, the cost of my computer, etc., but there is little of
that which I could reclaim through other means.
The important question is whether it produces results. My
experience is too recent to be able to say anything on this
score yet. We haven't had any responses from the WWW page
so far. I did a major push to get him listed through SubmitIt!
with disappointing results. Only this week, after resubmitting
his entry service by service does he show up in some of the
major search systems. (For my money, Yahoo is a joke.) I've
now just started a more focused effort to get him listed in
directories in his field. I'm working on an assumption that
to be at all useful, people have to be able to find you.
My current favorite search system is the Metacrawler, which
you can use to tell whether you are listed.
http://www.metacrawler.com.
AltaVista has a feature that tells you if your site has been
linked from other sites.
http://altavista.digital.com
Give the search string
link:http://www.yoursite.com
That's the foot-traffic side of the story. There is also a
yellow pages aspect to the WWW, which runs "if it isn't in
there, maybe it doesn't exist." Does telling an art director
to check your WWW page give you an edge. I don't know, but I
believe that there are situations where it has an advantage.
So far it has been interesting and fun, so I'm not staring
at the bottom line too hard. I'll think about it again in
a year.
-- Lee
Jonathan Blitz on mon 13 may 96
I wrote a website for our business several months ago, and it has
given us a small but steady stream of customers from all over the
country. It also gives us the opportunity to show many new and
potential customers our catalog. I would say that it is worth it, but
I don't think that the response would have been as strong if we had
not posted our 800 number all over the catalog pages. If you just
want a brochure, it is nice and easy to do. If you want something
more, then the cost is minimal (14 hours of my own time plus $10.00
per month, plus 2-3 hours per month updating and adding to the site),
and if you want to sell, then have a way to take telephone orders.
I am all for it.
URL = http://www.iwc.com/krueger
--
Jonathan Blitz, President of Applied Aluminosilicates, Ltd.
8153 Big Bend St. Louis, MO 63119
(314)810-6380/FAX(314)781-8666
http://www.iwc.com/krueger/blitz/
Applications Engineering/Borosilicate Coatings
Jonathan Kaplan on mon 13 may 96
Lee's comments are very useful, and I thought I'd add my two cents worth
here also.
I've had my page up for about under a year now and I decided to have a
presence in the web because it would get the word out and supplement my
advertising in Crafts Report, Ceramics Monthly, Giftware News, and soon to
be, Clay Times. I am linked all over to the many search engines and other
ceramics/art pages.
I am currently revising the page.
The page is at Craft Web and I do urge those on the list to contact
Kathleen McMahon about becoming involved with their group and also about
their Web Page fees and services. My page was very reasonable to set up,
gets lot of hits, but none have translated into a sale. That is OK because
it was not my intent to sell product through my page. I have received many
inquiries for my Production Services and this has turned out to be the best
part, as some of these inquiries have indeed translated into some projects.
My internet service provider CSN, does provide 5 megs of free space so I
could put the page on their server, but at this point, because of the many
links and other references, I don't want to get another URL and have to
change these many links. The yearly fee for the CraftWeb service is very
reasonable indeed.
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan
http://www.craftweb.com/org/jkaplan/cdg.shtml
(aka "Scooter)
jonathan@csn.net
Ceramic Design Group Ltd./Production Services Voice:
970-879-9139 POB 775112
FAXmodem: same
Steamboat Springs, Colorado 80477, USA CALL before faxing
"No matter where you go, there you are!"
Shrope/Ratcliffe on mon 13 may 96
Let's face it the web is here to stay.
I see it as a combination resource of: phone book resource, both white
and yellow pages, a sales tool, a personal statement,a library resource
search engine and a technical supplier; I've found resources from
composting to automobiles to virtual reality.
As I see it the question is not; will it produce sales for me,or how
many people have visited my site, but rather, what consequences and
affect will it have on me and what will I have on it?
It's really not that hard of a thing to get used to.
HTML editors are cheap and easy to learn.
The big problem is access, modem speed and knowing what you want and how
to get it.
To site or not to site?
I look at the factors: what is the cost, what is the potential?
Isn't that the same as deciding whether of not to show in a craft fair?
Or to produce 1,000 color postcards?(or for that matter to buy a new
kiln?)
The web site is just another method to make, communicate, and share,
what it is you have and what others might be interested in. The
potential for income and exposure is there, but it will not supersede
the actual, real, handmade object!
Regards, Peter Shrope
http://www.charm.net/~pssr/
Gail Nichols on mon 13 may 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>I would like to here some feedback from those of you that have a web site.
>This new tool that we have, the www, is quite a novelty. But is it really
>what we think it is? How does the average person actually access your web
>page? Does the page generate email inquiries for your business? (Mine does
>to a small degree). Are you using this as a tool to communicate more about
>yourself, or show what you have to offer for sale? How has the "return on
>the dollar" been for you, as it relates to the cost of programing vs.
>response generated?
>.......
>
>Jack Phillips
>STONART Ceramic art
>Portland, Oregon
>
>
Jack,
My web page has been very useful in terms of putting me in contact with
other potters who are interested in soda firing. As there are very few of
us soda firers in Australia currently, making contact with potters overseas
has been a big boost to my work.
My page was put together by Urban Exile in Sydney, for a very reasonable
fee, and they adopted the approach of publishing the site in similar format
to a magazine article. Sharing information was seen as a higher priority,
and realistically more achievable, than sales via the Internet. I've heard
of people who have been disappointed because their web sites haven't
generated a lot of extra sales. If sales is your main incentive, I think
you will probably be disappointed. (Unless things are different in the USA,
perhaps, and galleries do actually access your site.) But if you'd like to
let people know what work you're doing, expand your professional profile
internationally, and contact other people working in a similar field, my
experience is that the success rate is pretty good.
I've been able to help out prospective soda firers by answering their
questions via email generated from my web page. My web page has also led to
a speaking engagement and a swap of platters, which I was very pleased with.
I guess people generally find my web address via sources such as Clayart
(from my signature) and from links to my page from Ceramics Web, Claynet,
and various individual web sites. I've certainly received more feedback
from my web page than I have from magazine articles published here in
Australia. I'm gradually learning more about how to update my page myself,
which will no doubt increase the value of my page as a communication tool.
.......................................
Gail Nichols
Sydney, Australia
gail@matra.com.au
http://www.matra.com.au/~gail/
.......................................
CaroleER@aol.com on tue 14 may 96
I have tried to get into the web, but it takes forEVER! Is my modem too
small? Or my computer too old and small? Then when I finally get there and
type the URL (is that right?), it tells me I can't get through - probably due
to traffic. Anybody have similar problems?
Carole Rishel
Bastrop, TX
CaroleER@aol.com
Nicole Lallande MIPANA INT'L on tue 14 may 96
Hi Carole:
Your problem has to do with your on-line server -- unfortunately, America
Online is oversold in many areas. AOL is not directly connected to the
internet, you enter through what are called 'proxy' computers. That slows
things down as well. If you want to browse the web, I recommend you do so
off peak hours if you can (probably mid day or early am) or try an internet
service provider. You can find one locally to give you all the software
you need and access at competitive rates, or you can find a national
provider as well. Usually, depending on your usage, you will find they are
cheaper than AOL.
Where do you live? if you are in a major city -- try the yellow pages. If
you are out in the boonies the problem may be local access number.
Otherwise, even the regional providers are listed on the net, I would be
happy to try and find one for you.
Nicole
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have tried to get into the web, but it takes forEVER! Is my modem too
>small? Or my computer too old and small? Then when I finally get there and
>type the URL (is that right?), it tells me I can't get through - probably due
>to traffic. Anybody have similar problems?
>
>Carole Rishel
>Bastrop, TX
>CaroleER@aol.com
PJLewing@aol.com on tue 14 may 96
Carole,
I also have AOL, and hve had similar problems accessing the Web. It uses
Webcrawler as a browser. It lists Netscape as a browser on the menu,but it
doesn't work. At least not yet. Also about every two weeks, access to the
Web completely disappears, and I have to go through a complicated procedure
of throwing away the browser and cache files, restarting, and rebuilding the
desktop. As soon as AT & T gets its connection software for the Mac up and
running, I think I'm going to switch. I also hate how AOL is always trying
to sell me something. There's a lot of stuff on AOL, but it all seems to be
ads. Who needs it? I've also had trouble with people not being able to read
files I've attached to e-mail. Any body have any solutions to these
problems?
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Dave Eitel on tue 14 may 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I have tried to get into the web, but it takes forEVER! Is my modem too
>small? Or my computer too old and small? Then when I finally get there and
>type the URL (is that right?), it tells me I can't get through - probably due
>to traffic. Anybody have similar problems?
>
>Carole Rishel
>Bastrop, TX
>CaroleER@aol.com
Carole--It would help to know your modem speed, what service you're using,
what time of day. On my Mac with a 14.4 modem I can usually get a website
in 1 or 2 minutes, max. Sometimes a bit faster.
Later...Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI
daveitel@execpc.com
http://www.digivis.com/CedarCreek/home.html
Tim Lynch on wed 15 may 96
One solution, mentioned in an earlier post, would be to find a "real"
internet access provider. After three years as a faithful AOL subscriber,
I got fed up with the inordinate amount of time it took to download
unwanted graphics. The connection started getting slower while AOL was
telling me what a bang up job they were doing on making access faster.
Yes, I still send away for free AOL startup disks but reformat them and
use them for data storage. Shhh....don't tell...
Tim Lynch
On Tue, 14 May 1996 PJLewing@aol.com wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> Carole,
> I also have AOL, and hve had similar problems accessing the Web. It uses
> Webcrawler as a browser. It lists Netscape as a browser on the menu,but it
> doesn't work. At least not yet. Also about every two weeks, access to the
> Web completely disappears, and I have to go through a complicated procedure
> of throwing away the browser and cache files, restarting, and rebuilding the
> desktop. As soon as AT & T gets its connection software for the Mac up and
> running, I think I'm going to switch. I also hate how AOL is always trying
> to sell me something. There's a lot of stuff on AOL, but it all seems to be
> ads. Who needs it? I've also had trouble with people not being able to read
> files I've attached to e-mail. Any body have any solutions to these
> problems?
> Paul Lewing, Seattle
>
CaroleER@aol.com on wed 15 may 96
Thanks to everyone who responded to my predicament! I think AOL is one of my
probs. My modem is 14,400 which should be fast enough. I think I'll start
shopping around for another net server.
Thanks again!
Carole Rishel
Bastrop, TX
CaroleER@aol.com
Bob Stryker on wed 15 may 96
Has anyone else noticed that television news stories covering the web often
show web pages loading with lightning speed? The user clicks and bang!- the
page is loaded in a second! I have to believe the pages being shown are
being loaded off a local network server or off the computer's hard drive. I
have yet to see a computer connected to the web perform in such a speedy
way. In a way, I think newcomers to the web who see these stories are being
misled, and may give up on the medium because of the real (at times very
slow) performance they endure.
I believe the original posting had to do with the merits of marketing
pottery on the web. My personal feeling is that there are not (yet) a lot of
folks looking to buy anything via the web. I think the vast majority are
looking for information or looking to be entertained (witness the "Pop Tart
Blow-Torches" web page phenomenon).
I know of one pottery manufacturer who is using the web to communicate with
its sales representatives. Seems like a very sensible use of the web to me.
When a new style or color is available, they upload the image and the sales
reps have access to an electronic up-to-date catalog. Much cheaper than
printing in 4 colors!
It's the low cost of getting a web presence that makes it a reasonable thing
to try. Learning basic HTML commands is a snap, and scanning equipment is
fairly inexpensive. I would not discourage anyone from starting a
commercial web page, but it's no substitute for craft shows or selling
through galleries, retailers and/or other conventional means.
Bob Stryker
mnclayus@mm.com
and yes, the website address is...
http://www.mm.com/mnclayus/
Don Jones on thu 16 may 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Thanks to everyone who responded to my predicament! I think AOL is one of my
>probs. My modem is 14,400 which should be fast enough. I think I'll start
>shopping around for another net server.
>
>Thanks again!
>
>Carole Rishel
>Bastrop, TX
>CaroleER@aol.com
Carole,
AOL is only one of the problems. If you surf the net at all (god I hate
that phrase) you need a 28.8 modem.
Don Jones
BJ Essig on thu 16 may 96
My experience has been that using the web needs to be at certain times.
Early morning to noon is O.K. Later gets slower and the later the slower.
8:00 p.m. is the worst. I think early morning hours are good as in 2:00 a.m.
As you guessed the slowness is due to traffic although antique equipment
has it's effect as well. We are talking center of Nebraska if you want
to look up times.
B.J.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Bette Essig
Art Instructor 8-12
Burwell Jr. Sr. High School
190 I Street-PO Box 670
Burwell Ne.68823-0670
I guess the artist painted the dog green because he didn't have any red.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ed Pierce on fri 17 may 96
Carole,
If you have some blinking lights (LED's) on the front of your modem you
might want to watch the receive light (mine is labeled RD). When it's on
you are receiving data, which is what most of us want to do most of the
time. Upgrading from 14.4 to 28.8 would speed up this activity. If,
however, the LED is off much of the time, the upgrade would not help you
that much in reducing your overall download time, since this would indicate
that much of the time you are waiting on the *system*. (The *system* is
everything outside of your house.) Using the net on off-hours or changing
your service are the only things I can think of that would help if this is
the problem.
I am suffering with the problem myself - little receiving, much waiting.
Ed Pierce
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