SANDRA@icicb.nci.nih.gov on fri 29 mar 96
I apologize in advance for asking a question that has probably been
asked several times before I joined the list, but I need some "consumer
report" info on wheels.
I'm getting ready to put in a studio in my home. I've been working in a
cooperative studio environment which I've outgrown, so to speak. I
already own an old Randall kickwheel that I bought way back in '72. I'm
ready to buy a new electric wheel. I've been working on heavy-duty
Brents in the studio, and they are okay. Vince expressed his views on
the new Shimpo wheel. Does anyone on the list have opinions on what
they like and why? I do fairly large work, so a heavy duty consistent
motor is a necessity.
TIA, for your help. You can e-mail me directly if you don't want to post to
the list--sandra@icic.nci.nih.gov.
Wiltjer Pottery on sun 31 mar 96
-- [ From: WILTJER POTTERY * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --
>I own an old Randall kickwheel that I bought way back in '72.
>I'm ready to buy a new electric wheel.
>I've been working on heavy-duty Brents in the studio, and they are okay.
>Vince expressed his views on the new Shimpo wheel.
>Does anyone on the list have opinions on what they like and why?
>I do fairly large work, so a heavy duty consistent motor is a necessity.
>sandra@icic.nci.nih.gov.
I built my first powered Randall-like wheel in '72. And
after giving many demos & workshops on different wheel brands,
my choice for a new wheel was very simple & clear cut.
I bought a Soldner P200 15 years ago.
- The controller is very smooth at all speeds.
- The torque is always even no matter what the load is.
You mention you throw large work,
I rarely throw with more than 50# at one time,
but I'm sure it will easily handle much more.
- The stability of the wide tri-legged base is great.(no tipping)
- The table is very handy to pile all of my junk on.
- The splash-pan slides on/off quickly.
I don't use one for larger stuff and can't if using a large dia. bat.
So mine comes on/off many times a day.
- Components are heavy, straight forward & easy to get to.
I've only replaced a belt, that I got at the local auto store.
Sorry for lengthy review,
I have a great passion/appreciation for anything well designed.
(wonder if they need salesperson? nah, would have to dress up)
NOTE:
I have an older one(black frame)
I've been told that Soldner sold the design to another company.
I don't know who or anything about the quality of the newer ones,
except they are painted with a red/orange frame now.(hmmm)
Rusty,,,
Wiltjer Pottery
So.Waterford,Maine
wiltjer@maine.com
http://www.maine.com/shops/wiltjer
Marcia Kindlmann on sun 31 mar 96
Subject: wheels
Sandra,
Have you ever tried a Soldner wheel? I think it would serve well your
need for a heavy-duty motor. Besides that it's quiet, and extremely
responsive--no jerkiness at all when slowing down to finish that way-out rim.
Foot pedal is at floor level --your heel is on the floor-- so you don't have
to prop your other foot on a stack of bats to balance your back.
Splash pan is small (but plenty adequate) & easily removed.
Best of all, the wide frame on this wheel supports a serious table for tools,
throwing bowl, ware board, plenty of room for all those things. I've been
throwing on mine for 15 years and every time I attend a
workshop where other wheels are in use I realize how spoiled I am. The usual
disclaimers--but this Soldner wheel is really a well-made article.
Marcia
Dave Eitel on mon 1 apr 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Subject: wheels
>
>Sandra,
>
>Have you ever tried a Soldner wheel?
Although I throw mostly on a Leach treadly wheel which I love dearly, my
electric wheel is a Soldner and I agree 100% with Marcia. I also own a
Brent which is a real workhorse, but doesn't compare to the Soldner.
Later...Dave
Dave Eitel
Cedar Creek Pottery
Cedarburg, WI
daveitel@execpc.com
Henry Pope on mon 1 apr 96
At 03:49 PM 3/31/96 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>-- [ From: WILTJER POTTERY * EMC.Ver #2.3 ] --
>I bought a Soldner P200 15 years ago.
>- The controller is very smooth at all speeds.
>- The torque is always even no matter what the load is.
>You mention you throw large work,
>I rarely throw with more than 50# at one time,
>but I'm sure it will easily handle much more.
>- The stability of the wide tri-legged base is great.(no tipping)
>- The table is very handy to pile all of my junk on.
>- The splash-pan slides on/off quickly.
>I don't use one for larger stuff and can't if using a large dia. bat.
>So mine comes on/off many times a day.
>- Components are heavy, straight forward & easy to get to.
>I've only replaced a belt, that I got at the local auto store.
>Sorry for lengthy review,
>I have a great passion/appreciation for anything well designed.
>(wonder if they need salesperson? nah, would have to dress up)
>NOTE:
>I have an older one(black frame)
>I've been told that Soldner sold the design to another company.
>I don't know who or anything about the quality of the newer ones,
>except they are painted with a red/orange frame now.(hmmm)
>
>Rusty,,,
>Wiltjer Pottery
>So.Waterford,Maine
>wiltjer@maine.com
>http://www.maine.com/shops/wiltjer
>
Greetings - I too have an old Soldner, the 1 hp model. A very good wheel.
However, mine makes a terrible squeeking noise when you put the pedal to the
metal, and I can't seem to locate its source. Has anyone else experienced
this noise, and found its solution?
Bluebird now makes the Soldner wheel. Has anyone bought the Bluebird
version, and if so, have they found it to be as good as the original? If
you are able to make the comparison. The Soldner wheel is a little
peculiar; it seems to have been designed by Soldner to accomodate his own
throwing predilection, that is, throwing standing up. Hence the bar that
hits you in the knees if sitting down. But it is, was, the best wheel on
the market a while ago. The speed controller in the foot pedal is the heart
of the wheel, and might be available separately. Otherwise, its a dc motor.
That's it.
On speed - HP
Dave Hedblom on mon 1 apr 96
Sandra,
I just purchased a Brent CXC and am very happy with it. It makes a little
noise at high speed by is silent at throwing speed. (Unless you throw at
top speed)
At the co-op I use a Shimpo and I like them too. If you have the $ I'd ....
I guess that's up to you.
Dave Hedblom
cobalt@winternet.com
Temp still way below average in Minnesota!!!!!!!!!!!
At 06:29 PM 3/29/96 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I apologize in advance for asking a question that has probably been
>asked several times before I joined the list, but I need some "consumer
>report" info on wheels.
>I'm getting ready to put in a studio in my home. I've been working in a
>cooperative studio environment which I've outgrown, so to speak. I
>already own an old Randall kickwheel that I bought way back in '72. I'm
>ready to buy a new electric wheel. I've been working on heavy-duty
>Brents in the studio, and they are okay. Vince expressed his views on
>the new Shimpo wheel. Does anyone on the list have opinions on what
>they like and why? I do fairly large work, so a heavy duty consistent
>motor is a necessity.
>TIA, for your help. You can e-mail me directly if you don't want to post to
>the list--sandra@icic.nci.nih.gov.
>
>
Patty Rehn on tue 2 apr 96
Yes, I sold my incredibly noisy Brent and bought a nice quiet, light Soldner.
Great wheel, I know I'll never get another brand. Saving for my clay mixer.
Patty
At 01:59 PM 4/1/96 EST, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>Subject: wheels
>>
>>Sandra,
>>
>>Have you ever tried a Soldner wheel?
>
>Although I throw mostly on a Leach treadly wheel which I love dearly, my
>electric wheel is a Soldner and I agree 100% with Marcia. I also own a
>Brent which is a real workhorse, but doesn't compare to the Soldner.
>
>Later...Dave
>
>
>Dave Eitel
>Cedar Creek Pottery
>Cedarburg, WI
>daveitel@execpc.com
>
>
Las6@aol.com on tue 2 apr 96
Hi,
Just want to comment on the Soldner wheels. I'm on my second one.. my first
one was so great, but was the small studio model and when a friend wanted to
sell her larger one (quitting clay) I jumped on it. It's the best wheel
I've ever used. For me the Brent splash pan was a nightmare and the Shimpo
foot pedal was clumsy and not responsive. (This was many years ago, perhaps
they are different now.) I've used this wheel as a production potter for
over 15 years and it is as magnificent as the day I bought it.. And has
never required any maintance. A few years back it was making a sqeaky sound
and when I called the company to inquire what to do Paul called me himself.
(this was shortly after his little factory in Silt burned down and he was
still close to the manufacturing, I think.) It was determined to be just a
temporary thing with the belt. The foot pedal is extremely smooth and
responsive. I just can't say enough great things about it.
To the person asking about the squeaking noise when the pedal is put to the
metal...in the manual it talks about that noise being caused by the "brushes"
( which aren't really what you'd think of as brushes). All you have to do is
remove them and turn them over. Very easy.
lark
mgiles@Onramp.NET on tue 2 apr 96
My older Soldner wheel also squeaks. Since it does so even after the
belt is disconnected and the bearings have been lubricated, increasing
in volume with pressure on the wheelhead, I concluded that the
bearings in the motor probably need replacing. I bought the wheel at
an estate sale ($150!) so I have no idea what kind of use it got
originally--but it hadn't been used for years when I got it.
Kristen Giles
>Greetings - I too have an old Soldner, the 1 hp model. A very good
>wheel.
>However, mine makes a terrible squeeking noise when you put the pedal
>to the
>metal, and I can't seem to locate its source. Has anyone else
>experienced
>this noise, and found its solution?
mgiles@onramp.net
http://rampages.onramp.net/~mgiles/
StoverL@aol.com on tue 2 apr 96
I'm mostly a handbuilder now, but have a wonderful 20 year old soldner wheel,
the largest he made, with a huge rectangular table. It's been a faultess
wheel; the only time it gave out was when my studio was hit by lightning and
one of the controller components got fried (it was cheap to replace). Before
that I had a shimpo, and it was a nice wheel, but the cone got out of
alignment once (I think maybe I tinkered with it) and it never worked
perfectly again.
For the squeaking problem, maybe you need to tighten the belt or add belt
dressing?
Lanse Stover
Beverly, MA
--------original message-----
Greetings - I too have an old Soldner, the 1 hp model. A very good wheel.
However, mine makes a terrible squeeking noise when you put the pedal to the
metal, and I can't seem to locate its source. Has anyone else experienced
this noise, and found its solution?......
Katy Sheridan on tue 2 apr 96
> Just want to comment on the Soldner wheels.(snip)
For me the Brent splash pan was a nightmare..........(snip)
>lark
This comment reminded me of a problem I am having. I am teaching at a
facility with a number of Brent wheels (C's). Some of the splash pans (the
red/brown ones) fit quite easily under the wheels but many of them (the
harvest gold ones) are the "devil" to get under the wheel head and fit to
the wheel. So the students hate using them!
The teacher in the children's classes has requested that I find a
solution to help minimize the mess.
Here is what I have done, 1) I have cleaned well under all the wheel
heads 2)I have lubricated the area under the wheel heads with Silicon Spray
(and that is not gonna last) 3)Using a Dremel tool, I have sanded areas of
the splash pan where I thought the plastic might be binding. Nothing has
worked. The harvest gold splash pans still need to be shoved on with a
powerful force that often shoves the wheel across the floor before it slides
into place.
Can any one advise?
Katy Sheridan
Kathryn Whipple on wed 3 apr 96
Hello all! Am I to understand that there are amongst us people who prefer
the Soldner wheels to motorized Randalls? Does this apply to new Soldners
as well as older models, and what differences could you describe? I have
been enthralled with the Randall wheel ever since my first encounter with
one, but have never seen a Soldner...been saving my pennies for My own
Randall and worrying now that it may not be The Best, after all...
Kathy Whipple
Brooker, FL
we put in a vegetable garden today...ahhh!
GURUSHAKTI@aol.com on wed 3 apr 96
Katy:
I have the same problem with my newer splash pan. I just rotated it back and
forth as I pull forward and I think this grind action has helped a bit. It is
still quite tight but at least now I can get it in there!.
I hope someone else has some input here. I've been concerned about
haphazardly grinding it with a dremel because of my concern that it might
make it too loose which would be equally undesireable.
Good luck!
June
Gareri PIKE TWP SCHOOL on wed 3 apr 96
We have Brents at our School (24 of em). what I did was reverse the
splash pan so the larger part is closest to you. I have the students
leave these in place and only remove the smaller half. During clean-up I
have them push the slip/water from the bigger half into the removable
smaller half.
Charles Gareri
Pike High School Art Dept.
Indianapolis, In USA
On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Katy Sheridan wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> > Just want to comment on the Soldner wheels.(snip)
> For me the Brent splash pan was a nightmare..........(snip)
> >lark
>
> This comment reminded me of a problem I am having. I am teaching at a
> facility with a number of Brent wheels (C's). Some of the splash pans (the
> red/brown ones) fit quite easily under the wheels but many of them (the
> harvest gold ones) are the "devil" to get under the wheel head and fit to
> the wheel. So the students hate using them!
>
> The teacher in the children's classes has requested that I find a
> solution to help minimize the mess.
>
> Here is what I have done, 1) I have cleaned well under all the wheel
> heads 2)I have lubricated the area under the wheel heads with Silicon Spray
> (and that is not gonna last) 3)Using a Dremel tool, I have sanded areas of
> the splash pan where I thought the plastic might be binding. Nothing has
> worked. The harvest gold splash pans still need to be shoved on with a
> powerful force that often shoves the wheel across the floor before it slides
> into place.
>
> Can any one advise?
>
> Katy Sheridan
>
Greg Van Velsir on thu 4 apr 96
I have lurked for a couple months now and have not posted because with a
little patience I notice most of what I would say gets said. But....
Following the Soldner wheel thread - perhaps it's time we had an on-line
contest to see who has the oldest working model of one of his wheels? I
will throw my hat in the ring with my wheel, which as others have said is
still like it was when I bought it. Let's see... that was June of 1972. It
was one of his first DC wheels and it has a direct drive - no drive belts.
I vaguely recall I was supposed to change the oil in the gear box
periodically ... which I finally did last summer. At the time I purchased
it Paul was working with an engineer to develop the "variac" dc controller.
The controller would be primitive I suspect by today's standards and unlike
most current wheels it doesn't have the ability to take your foot off the
pedal and hold a constant speed. It's also has a "whine" when throwing -
particularly at higher speeds. It's only a 1/2 horse motor but I've had
several hundred pound wheel thrown sculptures on it with adequate torque at
any speed. It is simple, lightweight (I can lift it in and out of a pick-up
myself), with a splash pan design that hasn't been equaled on anything I've
seen since. I've thrown on Shrimpo's, Brents, motorized kickwheels, etc.
and so far wouldn't trade it for any (although the new Brent is amazingly
quiet). Paul told me this week that his last design which he sold to
Bluebird in Fort Collins has a 1 hp motor. (What do you do with the extra
power - run a clay mixer too?) He also said it isn't that big a seller
these days - he called it "the cadillac of wheels" and so I assume it is
expensive. Given what others have said... and my two cents... it might be
worth it. So save your pennies a little longer and it might be the last
wheel you ever buy.
In the foothills of the Antelope Valley - where today is picture perfect!
Greg Van Velsir
Lancaster, CA
e-mail: vnvelsir@hughes.net
Phone: 1.805.724.1158
Numo Jaeger on thu 4 apr 96
Hi katy,
The wheels at the studio are older than the splash pans. Undoubtedly the
design for the new splash pan is different from the original splash pans.
Don't worry about the small stuff... Just have the students and teachers just
use one side of the splash pan.
Numo
Chance_Bob/furman@furman.edu on thu 4 apr 96
I felt the need to chirp in on this one--
I have 4 generations of soldner wheels in my studio. First is the old
kick type wheel which is a trooper and has been for more years than I
care to admit using it. The Second is the Pro electric wheel--they
squeak and need the brushes turned occasionally but are fine wheels and
have a great design for the way I work. Thirdly, I unfortunately have
some Soldner studio model wheels made during the time Soldner Pottery
Equipment and a certain midwestern ceramics company joined forces and
they are, in my opinion, possibly the worst wheels ever manufactured
commercially. Shoddy parts and workmanship does not even begin to
describe these things. All constantly need work to keep them going and
I would trash them tomorrow if I could affort to replace them. (has
anyone else out there had problems with this generation of soldner
wheels?) Fourth, I have a newer Bluebird model that is my favorite
wheel. Strong, quiet and reliable, I would recommend them to anyone.
Bob Chance
chance_bob/Furman@furman.edu
http://ns9000.furman.edu/~chance/chance.html
behrends on fri 5 apr 96
Charles, A word of caution, I have several Brent wheels. I fond out the hard
way that you must take off the splash pans compleatly or clay and water will
build up and ruin the baring. It's not fun to replace and expencive. The
splash pans are not hard to put back on when they are still wet. Reg
Behrends>----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
>We have Brents at our School (24 of em). what I did was reverse the
>splash pan so the larger part is closest to you. I have the students
>leave these in place and only remove the smaller half. During clean-up I
>have them push the slip/water from the bigger half into the removable
>smaller half.
>
>Charles Gareri
>Pike High School Art Dept.
>Indianapolis, In USA
>
>On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Katy Sheridan wrote:
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>
>> > Just want to comment on the Soldner wheels.(snip)
>> For me the Brent splash pan was a nightmare..........(snip)
>> >lark
>>
>> This comment reminded me of a problem I am having. I am teaching at a
>> facility with a number of Brent wheels (C's). Some of the splash pans (the
>> red/brown ones) fit quite easily under the wheels but many of them (the
>> harvest gold ones) are the "devil" to get under the wheel head and fit to
>> the wheel. So the students hate using them!
>>
>> The teacher in the children's classes has requested that I find a
>> solution to help minimize the mess.
>>
>> Here is what I have done, 1) I have cleaned well under all the wheel
>> heads 2)I have lubricated the area under the wheel heads with Silicon Spray
>> (and that is not gonna last) 3)Using a Dremel tool, I have sanded areas of
>> the splash pan where I thought the plastic might be binding. Nothing has
>> worked. The harvest gold splash pans still need to be shoved on with a
>> powerful force that often shoves the wheel across the floor before it slides
>> into place.
>>
>> Can any one advise?
>>
>> Katy Sheridan
>>
>
>
Lisa DesJardins on fri 5 apr 96
All of this wonderful talk of Soldner wheels has me interested. Anybod out
there with one to sell? Am also looking for gas kiln of the 7-10cu/ft
capacity.
Thanks.
Lisa in Pittsburgh(where my fingers have blisters from all of the gardening
I've been doing, but I LOVE IT!!!)
PlatypusD@aol.com on fri 5 apr 96
Listen after 16 Years on my Soldner I stil swear by it ... Until we got a
shimpo gold, which like even more . zttThe belt on the Soldner will get a
little noisey even though I replaced the old one last month. By the way I
just got rid of my clay mixer and got a venco De-airing pug mill. Now I Can't
wait to touch clay every day . The clay from my mixer was short and flabby
Any way don't put off the pug mill! Chargeit and buy from Axner. Have Fun!
Peter Powning on sat 6 apr 96
I have a Soldner wheel manufactured just after Bluebird took over and it is OK
but not the dream wheel I hoped for. The belts are squeaky and in the 5+ years
I've had it I've had to change them several times to deal with the noise. I
throw standing and the wheel was easy to adapt for throwing standing up and
the pedal control is good. I didn't like the work table splash pan so built
new ones that keep splash and trimmings under control. If I was looking at
wheels now I'd sure be tempted by the new Shimpo Master series even if the
splash pan is too damned big.
Peter Powning
Just got a foot of snow a few days ago and the xc skiing is great.
BERNARD SMITH on fri 23 aug 96
"Throwing" my two cents worth in about a new wheel:
I have seen little discussion about my wheel of choice; a Thomas
Stuart. I like the heavier flywheel (135 lbs). This is a tall wheel
and I like to be well "above" the clay when throwing, this wheel
works well for me in this regard.
The price is "in the ballpark" compared to most other wheels on the
market.
One good news/bad news I have is the splash tray: its made of marine
grade plywood which, being wood, is easily modified or attached to.
However, since it is flat any splash runs off in any of three
directions (excellent way to find out how well you levelled the
wheel); some form of collection of run-off is on my to-do list.
The bottom of the wheel shaft also rests and runs in a ball bearing.
It has a grease fitting on it and I found that filling this up with
some all-purpose lithium grease ($10 for gun and cartridge at K-mart)
makes this wheel even smoother running.
I do not yet have the motor, but the info says the motor is only
turned on when you step on the pedal to increase the speed, not
running all the time as on others.
The seat adjusts up/down as well as back/forward a few inches,
although it is also Marine grade plywood.
When will Lazy-Boy come out with a wheel??
Barney in Minneapolis: If you can't handle the Winter you don'e
deserve the summer.
Larry Galbiati on tue 27 aug 96
> some form of collection of run-off is on my to-do list.
>Barney in Minneapolis:
Thomas Stuart does have a splash pan available, I think is costs about
$40. I like this wheel also, it can be adjusted for a wide variety of
leg lengths (mine are very short).
Janet E. Glass
apprentice potter in Arlington, Texas
Cliff De Witt on thu 29 aug 96
Larry Galbiati wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> > some form of collection of run-off is on my to-do list.
>
> >Barney in Minneapolis:
> I like this wheel also, it can be adjusted for a wide variety of
> leg lengths (mine are very short).
I'll add my two cents worth to. I agree my legs are long, and I like the
adjust ability of the horizontal bars. I have mine high so I can rest my
elbows on my thighs for throwing.
I solved the run off problem by laminating another board to the edges of
the table and then using a half round router making the tray like on my
son's high chair. Drilled a 1 inch hole inside the lip and can direct my
drips.
Cliff De Witt
brown acres DeSoto TX
--
1>
Douglas Myatt on wed 2 oct 96
I'm new to the list, and to the world of pottery. Can anyone out there
recommend a wheel brand? A local supplier has a Shimpo in stock---it's not
the Clayboss, but the next model up. I'd like to find something that will
last.....
Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!
Douglas Myatt
msharpe@datasync.com
James A. Harrod on wed 2 oct 96
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>I'm new to the list, and to the world of pottery. Can anyone out there
>recommend a wheel brand? A local supplier has a Shimpo in stock---it's not
>the Clayboss, but the next model up. I'd like to find something that will
>last.....
>
>Any advice is greatly appreciated!!!
I used a Brent model CX for fifteen years - and it is still going strong
for the potter I sold it to years ago. I don't know if Brent still makes
this model (or if Brent is still in business)- it had a solid 3/4" steel
table top and a direct drive motor - and splash pan attachment.
Jim (no longer potting) Harrod
Karen Gringhuis on thu 3 oct 96
Dear Doug - Welcome to pottery, you'll love it, don't quit your day job.
I have a Soldner P100 & love it. Cost a Cadillac $1000 but the foot pedal
is worth every penny to me. Have heard the smaller Soldners are a little light
helped my throwing greatly on the Soldner - I need all the help I can get.
But whatever, don't worry. Somewhere between the investment of a
lifetime & what you can afford, there's a wheel. The most important thin
is you & WORK,WORK, WORK. Good luck.
Anne McFadden on thu 3 oct 96
>I'm new to the list, and to the world of pottery. Can anyone out there
>recommend a wheel brand? A local supplier has a Shimpo in stock---it's not
>the Clayboss, but the next model up. I'd like to find something that will
>last.....
Hi Doug -
I bought a shimpo masterseries M400 in january or february (you know,
the white shimpo wheel you see in their advertisement these days.?)
Anyhow, i really, really love it. Its QUIET, strong, and VERY solid.
You can centre 50+ lbs and its a 1/2 hp motor. (They also have a 1hp
model which is supposed to be able to centre 100+ lbs)Seems to me the
M400 model was right on par pricewise with the Brent model B. They
are coming out with 2 smaller and lesser priced masterseries wheels
sometime in the near future too. If they're as good as the other
masterseries models, they will definitely outdo the competition.
I did a lot of comparison shopping and research and I really found it
to be head and shoulders above anything else I tried:
pacifica wheel - could stop the wheelhead by gripping it
firmly with 2 hands; made me wonder how it would hold up under large
peices of clay. I have heard from others that the wheel does work well,
but needs oiling regularly otherwise the squeaking of the
plastic belts will drive you nuts.
Thomas Stewart electric kickwheel - big solid concrete flywheel. I
had a hard time throwing on it and had back problems because of it.
I wouldn't recommend getting this one unless you're a VERY large
framed person. (incidentally, this was my first wheel.. and it was
bought in haste)
Goodwood/Estrin - good electric kickwheels. comfortable. I learned
on a goodwood. Goodwood's are hard to come by, as thy're not made
anymore and people don't part with them very often. You might be able
to, if you're lucky, pick them up second hand. The Estrin Co, I
understand, is still manufacturing wheels. They're in British
Columbia somewhere (Canadian Made -hooray!).. don't have their address.
Brent - I also learned on a Brent model A. Its a good wheel, but
the motor sounds like its straining when u exert a lot of pressure.
The model A is 1/3 hp, and the literature says it can centre up to 25
lbs, but its really only about 9 or 10. One advantage is ists size
-- its small, and would be good if your space is limited. ..and its
light..well, lighter than most other wheels. The Brent B has the same
motor as the model A, but has a wider footing to provide greater
stability. I tried others too...models C (1/2 hp) and CXC (1 hp). I
found the pedal control of the wheelspeed to be insensitive, or
overly sensitive. you'd be turning the wheel slowly, press down ever
so slightly on the pedal, and whammo, you're going way too fast...its
like there were gears and there were no in between speeds. Also,
they all had a loud hum to them. A friend of mine has a basement
studio and his wife can hear the humming on the third floor.
Shimpos - now the shimpos (at least the one's before the master
series) use a completely different drive system from the brent and
pacifica. they use a cone drive system (your dealer can probably
explain it better than I can). Its a very smooth wheel...speeds
up/slows down smoothly. And its strong. I don't remember which
model I tried, but it had the pedal attached to the body of the wheel
and a handle/lever thingie to one side. I personally didn't find it
super comfortable because of the lever thingie (which can be removed,
by the way) sticking up, and because of the fixed pedal... my legs
are sort of longish and I like to.. um..stretch out. But that's me ;)
Oh ya, if you're a lefty, you can adjust the wheel to turn in a
counterclockwise direction, if that's impt to you.
I didn't try any others.
As far as getting something that's going to last, well, I don't think
you'll have a problem with that. I have friends who have had their
Brent and Shimpo wheels for 25+ years. Most manufacturers are very
reputable, and provide good service.
The impt thing is that u find a wheel that is right for u. By all means,
try as many wheels as you can before you come to a decision. Its
better to wait and find something that you know you like than to rush and
buy something because its there.
Hope I've been of some help. Good luck.
Anne in Beeton, Ontario
Ken L Russell on thu 3 oct 96
<
<
Brent CXC, there is no substitute. The best prices are at Kickwheel
Pottery Supply, 1-800-241-1895, or Bennet's (don't have their 800# with
me).
Ken Russell
The Arlington Pottery
gone2pot@juno.com
Vince Pitelka on sat 19 oct 96
Dannon is having trouble sending Clayart messages through her server, and
asked me to post this to the list for her.
- Vince
>To the list:
>>
>>I have come upon a wheel that I would like some information on,
>>if any have such.
>>
>>It is a motorized kick wheel. I have no idea the age, except that
>>it is fairly old. The only identifying mark on the wheel itself is a
>>small plate that says "Arch T. Flower Co.", a steel manufacturer
>>in Philadelphia. I am unable to determine whether the plate refers
>> to the manufacturer of the wheel, or the manufacturer of the steel
>>part the plate is on, or perhaps both. No model number.
>>
>>The motor is made by Dayton Electric in Chicago, model 6k572a,
>> 1/3 hp, 115 v. 5.5 amp, split phase a/c motor, max. rpm 1725 (whew!).
>>.
>>The wheel is beautifully balanced, throwing on it is great fun, and
>>I am curious about it. The motor hums about like a shimpo.
>>If anyone knows about it, please email me privately, not to clog
>>the list.
>>
>>And thanks.
>>
>>Dannon Rhudy
>>dannon@koyote.com
Shelly on fri 24 jan 97
I am interested in learning pottery. I have worked with clay with my
hands, have let some of the articles dry and have painted some pieces but
have never fired anything. Years ago, my grandmother let us work at her
wheel but it was so long ago and I remember little about her wheel (except
my grandfather made it).
What I would like to know is where to get information on wheels:
recommended manufacturers
names of suppliers
maybe a book or literature that describes what to look for in a good
wheel
how to make a wheel
etc.
Actually, being new to this, any information would be appreciated. Thanks
for any help you are able to provide
Shelly Holland
Joyce Lee, Jim Lee on mon 28 jul 97
This is going to sound strange after all the problems we had removing
the wheelhead in order to place the big splash pan on our new Shimpo,
problems which we shared with Clayart and you guys really came
through! But we did eventually get that resolved via a machine shop.
However, now that that ugly and frustrating experience is over, I LOVE
the new Shimpo. It is sooo quiet; I like the big foot; the attached
table (optional) is roomy and handy; it's easy to drain the splash pan
(takes seconds); the wheelhead is larger than my old one (although it's
still a standard size)and feels right. Grand wheel. Highly recommend it
IF you are prepared to battle the good battle if there's a problem. We
think it was worth it.
Joyce
In the Mojave trying to work a bit with coils so I won't appear such a
fool at Pitelka's workshop in Washington state. It's the chicken and
the egg bit: Do I get experience BEFORE a workshop so as to take full
advantage of the learning offered? Or do I go to a workshop with the
expectation of learning what I need to know THERE? Ohh, worry, worry,
worry...
Mel Jacobson on thu 28 aug 97
i like the brent, pacifica, lockerbie( the new one looks to be terrific.),
soldner, creative industry, and i throw every day on a skutt DC1. (cannot
get them anymore) and any other one that has a wheel head that will come
off. it is all based on what is available. and your price. ( i have four
b-29 bomber wheels...love them...of course nils lou takes credit for
them...it was j.t. abernathy. michigan, and he probably swipt the idea
from someone else...)
buy a good wheel, make good pots, it pays for itself in about three weeks.
shimpos broke down at a very fast rate...had 8 of them at school, maybe it
was me, but i hate those
damn things. never could get one that did not break down.
and they would always question me. "what did you do wrong." had a new gold
one....two weeks old ,and the main bearing froze...they said i ruined it.
piss on them. and kids would trip on that damn cable to the foot feed.
had six brents, model c......not one ever failed in 17 years,... not even a
belt. and do not even think of trying to get the wheel head off a
shimpo....and the plastic stuff stinks...
get the picture.?..i hate shimpos. and dannon rhudy has an old
shimpo, and she loves it....go figure.
if you are going to buy your first wheel...buy a brent model c.
it is portable, easy to use, and will not break down. and the price is
just fine.....if you want to spend the money, buy a soldner...will last a
life time. i think the soldner,best wheel ,is the best that there is.
but maybe the new lockerbie ,with time ,will challenge it.
the new wheels that are being produced are better than a lot of the
potters that are using them.
mel. just get a wheel and get to work.
http://www.pclink.com/melpots
kinoko@junction.net on fri 29 aug 97
Dear all, Nearly 40 years ago I coiled pots.The method worked as well then
as it had 40,000 years previously although I could only build a few
pots-a-day since I had a day-job and a growing family and a growing garden.
I built a wheel and it worked fine and I made a hundred pots-a-day. I bought
a kickwheel from Newton Potters and it worked fine. I gathered students and
bought three electric wheels from N.P. and they worked fine. I built my own
kick wheel and it worked very well indeed. Over the past 27 years I have
used Shimpo wheels without incident.They work fine. In Japan,before my first
Shimpo, I built a hand wheel from an old,loaded Honda wheel at Hanazono and
had no problems. Potters wheels are simply production tools.They allow
potters to make hundreds of identical pieces,(all aesthetic b.s. aside).
Somehow I get the idea that the tool doth not make the potter but only
forces symetry upon an asymetrical universe. Don
Morrill>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>i like the brent, pacifica, lockerbie( the new one looks to be terrific.),
>soldner, creative industry, and i throw every day on a skutt DC1. (cannot
>get them anymore) and any other one that has a wheel head that will come
>off. it is all based on what is available. and your price. ( i have four
>b-29 bomber wheels...love them...of course nils lou takes credit for
>them...it was j.t. abernathy. michigan, and he probably swipt the idea
>from someone else...)
>buy a good wheel, make good pots, it pays for itself in about three weeks.
>shimpos broke down at a very fast rate...had 8 of them at school, maybe it
>was me, but i hate those
>damn things. never could get one that did not break down.
>and they would always question me. "what did you do wrong." had a new gold
>one....two weeks old ,and the main bearing froze...they said i ruined it.
>piss on them. and kids would trip on that damn cable to the foot feed.
>had six brents, model c......not one ever failed in 17 years,... not even a
>belt. and do not even think of trying to get the wheel head off a
>shimpo....and the plastic stuff stinks...
>get the picture.?..i hate shimpos. and dannon rhudy has an old
>shimpo, and she loves it....go figure.
>
>if you are going to buy your first wheel...buy a brent model c.
>it is portable, easy to use, and will not break down. and the price is
>just fine.....if you want to spend the money, buy a soldner...will last a
>life time. i think the soldner,best wheel ,is the best that there is.
>but maybe the new lockerbie ,with time ,will challenge it.
>the new wheels that are being produced are better than a lot of the
>potters that are using them.
>mel. just get a wheel and get to work.
>http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
*****************************************
*****************************************
** Don and Isao Morrill **
** Falkland, B.C. **
** kinoko@junction.net **
*****************************************
*****************************************
Dannon Rhudy on sat 30 aug 97
>get the picture.?..i hate shimpos. and dannon rhudy has an old
>shimpo, and she loves it....go figure.
>
Don't be so cranky! Can I help it if nothing ever goes wrong
with that wheel? Got to dance with the one what brung ya'....
(However, I must admit to finding an old motorized kick wheel
stored away that I use frequently now; it runs smooth and silent
and I don't know why it got stuck away in the dark at some point.
Maybe because it is - umm- ugly seems the best word. But it WORKS
with great beauty...).
Dannon Rhudy in Texas, pondering whether wheels might have skin,
and if so how deep it might go...
Teresa Murphy(TMurphy889@aol.com) on sat 30 aug 97
Mel,
Could you describe some of the features of the new lockerbie. I'm stuck here
in pigsknuckle, OK. with no info!!!!
TIA,
Teresa
BCTanz on sun 7 sep 97
I agree...I have thrown with Shimpo's ever since my student days in the
mid '50s. and that is a LONG time ago! I purchased one of the first
shimpo wheels to be imported to this country. I have been using them ever
since. I have never had a problem with any of my wheels and have
recommended them highly to all of my students. As far as I know, none of
them have had any problems with their Shimpos, either. And I have had many
students purchase wheels when they were ready to set up their studios. I
will say that I have never tried to skimp; my shimpos have always been the
best that was offered at the time. In case you are wondering, I have owned
a total of three Shimpo wheels, two of which I still use. The
largest--with a 16"wheelhead--is what I use for my larger stoneware pots.
The other standard 12" is for porcelain work. Can't understand why you had
such a problem!!!
Jack Ward on thu 29 jan 98
I have had experience with Pacifica,Brent,and AMACO.
I now use a Brent A for demos. and aCXC in the studio for more thaN 15
years.
john eden on fri 30 jan 98
I own a Shimpo wheel and like it.
Where I teach we have both Brents and Shimpos. I don't really mind which I
use, in fact I usually work on both types and on different wheels to
encourage students to do the same. The main criticism I have of Shimpo is
that all of the splash pans have been totally useless and very poorly
designed. I can't speak about the latest version. In addition, all the
early pans are no longer available. So one is forced to buy a pan which
requires changes to make it fit properly or is radically different. I
firmly believe that Shimpo would do well to find a good designer or at least
pay for the one they have to visit North America and see how we use wheels.
My wish is that Giffin would put his mind to designing a replacement pan for
the early Shimpos. Maybe a really useful, universal pan.
The fact that you are forced to buy a complete wheel head assembly instead
of a couple of bearings is my main problem with Brent.
Obviously if a wheel is only owner used it will almost certainly give
stalwart service. The problems start when thousands of students are using
wheels in school situations.
Cheers John.
John Eden
Ceramics Department
John Abbott College
Ste. Anne de Bellevue
Quebec, Canada.
514-457-6610. ext. 395
e-mail > john.eden@johnabbott.qc.ca
Ron Wright on fri 30 jan 98
Just in case anyone is interested in the replies from my post on
Pacifica vs. Brent potter's wheel's. The results from the email that I
received were 2 to 1 in favor of the Pacifica (31 replies in all, talk
about a response). I also received 7 responses about Shimpo's. The folks
with old ones loved them, people with newer ones hated them. Never tried
a Shimpo, just letting you know the results. So I gave into the will of
the people and ordered a Pacifica (I did get to try a Brent C and it did
make a humming noise, one of the biggest complaints about the Brent). In
the process, the 2 local clay companies that I deal with got really
annoyed with me when I asked them for their prices and then told them
that I was buying the wheel from Bennet's in Fla.. One even hung up on
me after a nasty comment. But I saved $250.00. Guess I'll have to buy my
clay from a more friendly source in the future. One more thing, some one
from Thomas Stuart emailed me about their wheels, which I think is a
nice touch. It's nice to know that someone in the wheel business thinks
enough about their customers to read the clayart list. I would have
bought their wheel but it was just a little over my budget.
Thanks for the advice
Ron Wright
Shiresham Pottery - Chicago
http://www.concentric.net/~wrright
rscorl on sat 31 jan 98
Mudskippers,
Make sure you look at the total, to your door cost. I just got my CXC from
Kickwheel Pottery and it ended up being about $50 cheaper than Bennetts. It
came with a splash pan and delivered with 50 lbs of clay, it came to $871.
Bennetts was cheaper but by the time you added $30 for the splash pan and
the shipping, it was over $900.
Ron
Big Baby Head Pottery
jillataylor on thu 11 feb 99
I have a Brent C less than 10 years old. It has lay dormant for some time =
while
I went off into handbuilding and sculpture. I now have a new student using =
it
and it seems to be stuttering and sometimes doesn't respond at all. Then =
after
fussing with it, it goes.
Does anyone have a suggestion? The boy let the splash pan get pretty full. =
Can
this get inside the motor? HELP=21 I don't want my huge investment to die.=
:(
Thanks in advance
Jill
daniel gardner on wed 24 feb 99
I was curious to hear from people who know Lockerbie, Brent, and Pacifica
wheels, particularly if you have nothing to lose in saying "it's a piece of
crap." I'm about to purchase a wheel, and all things considered, I'm
looking at three choices: the high end of pacifica (I don't remember the
model letters), a brent A, or a lockerbie EK. Actually, I'm most interested
to hear anything at all about the Pacifica, because it's the wheel I know
least about. I'd be most interested to hear from people who've had problems
with their wheels -- what kind of tech support can I expect if something
goes wrong?
Thanks,
Daniel
Morgan Britt on wed 24 feb 99
Here's my two cents,
I bought a Lockerbie about a year ago and love every shiny stainless steel inch
of it. It has a big half moon tray with a drain (stainless as well), and the
splash pan is an aluminum (thick) half circle that sits tight and low to the
wheelhead in front of you. Slides in and out for easy cleaning. I bought the
attachable bench - Easy adjustment for both height and distance. The pedal
seemed a little stiff in the beginning but eased with use, fine now. The best
feature to me is that it is reversible. I throw in both directions. Happy
hunting.
Morgan
daniel gardner wrote:
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
> I was curious to hear from people who know Lockerbie, Brent, and Pacifica
> wheels, particularly if you have nothing to lose in saying "it's a piece of
> crap." I'm about to purchase a wheel, and all things considered, I'm
> looking at three choices: the high end of pacifica (I don't remember the
> model letters), a brent A, or a lockerbie EK. Actually, I'm most interested
> to hear anything at all about the Pacifica, because it's the wheel I know
> least about. I'd be most interested to hear from people who've had problems
> with their wheels -- what kind of tech support can I expect if something
> goes wrong?
>
> Thanks,
> Daniel
--
Morgan Britt
morgan@unlimited.net
Richard Gralnik on thu 25 feb 99
Daniel,
I wouldn't buy a Brent A if you want to do a lot of throwing and plan to make
pots from over about 5 pounds of clay. I found the A to be underpowered and
physically so light that the whole thing moved if I leaned into the clay too
much. Get at least a B.
I had a motorized Lockerbie for a while but I found I couldn't control the
speed or duration of the spin well enough for my throwing ability. I
liked the wheel though.
Depending on your budget have you considered a Soldner?
Richard
At 09:01 AM 2/24/99 -0500, you wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>
>I was curious to hear from people who know Lockerbie, Brent, and Pacifica
>wheels, particularly if you have nothing to lose in saying "it's a piece of
>crap." I'm about to purchase a wheel, and all things considered, I'm
>looking at three choices: the high end of pacifica (I don't remember the
>model letters), a brent A, or a lockerbie EK. Actually, I'm most interested
>to hear anything at all about the Pacifica, because it's the wheel I know
>least about. I'd be most interested to hear from people who've had problems
>with their wheels -- what kind of tech support can I expect if something
>goes wrong?
>
>Thanks,
>Daniel
>
Jim Bob Salazar on sat 27 feb 99
hey there daniel,
i have used and maintained both lockerbie and brent wheels in university
settings. it has been my experience that both wheels are nice to make pots
on. on the lockerbie (kick wheel with motor) there are fewer, less
expensive parts to replace if something does break on it. the brents (cxc)
are a little harder to trouble shoot if they break and the replacement parts
(the circuit board that is inside the control box) are not cheap. i have
had to replace a dozen or so of these circuit boards. brent does however
have a great support/tech guy. i have delt with him several times and he is
allways polite and helpful.
i learned on a lockerbie kick as an undergrad and just loved it. it was so
quiet and smooth. when i got my new brent cxc it was a little loud for me
and it took some time to get use to the noise it made. now i'm used to it
and it doesn't matter anymore. i think they are both very good products, it
is gonna possibly depend on what type of work you will be doing. one plus
for the lockerbie, it also makes a great banding wheel.
happy wheel hunting
jim bob salazar
-----Original Message-----
From: Morgan Britt
To: CLAYART@LSV.UKY.EDU
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 5:34 PM
Subject: Re: wheels
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>Here's my two cents,
>
>I bought a Lockerbie about a year ago and love every shiny stainless steel
inch
>of it. It has a big half moon tray with a drain (stainless as well), and
the
>splash pan is an aluminum (thick) half circle that sits tight and low to
the
>wheelhead in front of you. Slides in and out for easy cleaning. I bought
the
>attachable bench - Easy adjustment for both height and distance. The
pedal
>seemed a little stiff in the beginning but eased with use, fine now. The
best
>feature to me is that it is reversible. I throw in both directions. Happy
>hunting.
>
>Morgan
>
>daniel gardner wrote:
>
>> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>>
>> I was curious to hear from people who know Lockerbie, Brent, and Pacifica
>> wheels, particularly if you have nothing to lose in saying "it's a piece
of
>> crap." I'm about to purchase a wheel, and all things considered, I'm
>> looking at three choices: the high end of pacifica (I don't remember the
>> model letters), a brent A, or a lockerbie EK. Actually, I'm most
interested
>> to hear anything at all about the Pacifica, because it's the wheel I know
>> least about. I'd be most interested to hear from people who've had
problems
>> with their wheels -- what kind of tech support can I expect if something
>> goes wrong?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Daniel
>
>--
>Morgan Britt
>morgan@unlimited.net
Michelle Henderson on sun 28 feb 99
I was curious to hear from people who know Lockerbie, Brent, and Pacifica
>> wheels, particularly if you have nothing to lose in saying "it's a piece
of
>> crap." I'm about to purchase a wheel, and all things considered, I'm
>> looking at three choices: the high end of pacifica >>>
I recently purchased a Pacifica 400 and love it! From what I have read,
either people love them or really hate them...for me, it is a great wheel. I
learned on a Brent wheel, and I prefer the Pacifica. The price was
*great*...I got mine for $620 through a local supplier--and it was the best
price around. The 800 is the top model, and centering capability is
unlimited. Good luck!
Michelle
Maureen and Steve on mon 1 mar 99
Regarding Daniels inquiry: I love my Pacifica 400. It is the quietest
electric wheel I have ever worked on and proves sufficient in strength for
all my need as a full time studio potter. I have to say that I also have a
Soldner kick wheel and just acquired an old Randall kick wheel, both of
which I love and also use regularly. I prefer the kick wheel for trimming
and finishing. I don't understand why you are considering a small Brent but
going for the big Pacifica? If the Brent A would be sufficient for you,
the Pacifica 400 should be more than adequate.
Good luck,
Maureen
======================
Maureen Mills
911 Greenland Rd.
Portsmouth, NH 03801
potters@sliptrail.com
http://www.sliptrail.com/
603/436-3818 h
603/431-5746 s
elizabeth priddy on mon 1 mar 99
My first wheel was a very old pacifica 400. i loved the size and the quiet. Ove
When I started production on a tv show about pottery, the wheel was still too lo
How people choose the brand they use is a mystery to me and I really think that
My students' Randall kick was perfect because he needed to keep it out doors and
One mans devil is the other's angel, and only experience can show the difference
---
Elizabeth Priddy
email: epriddy@usa.net
www.angelfire.com/nc/clayworkshop
On Sun, 28 Feb 1999 13:39:07 Michelle Henderson wrote:
>----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I was curious to hear from people who know Lockerbie, Brent, and Pacifica
>>> wheels, particularly if you have nothing to lose in saying "it's a piece
>of
>>> crap." I'm about to purchase a wheel, and all things considered, I'm
>>> looking at three choices: the high end of pacifica >>>
>
>I recently purchased a Pacifica 400 and love it! From what I have read,
>either people love them or really hate them...for me, it is a great wheel. I
>learned on a Brent wheel, and I prefer the Pacifica. The price was
>*great*...I got mine for $620 through a local supplier--and it was the best
>price around. The 800 is the top model, and centering capability is
>unlimited. Good luck!
> Michelle
>
-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
mel jacobson on wed 3 apr 02
i want to make sure i give a plug to that
fairly new bailley wheel.
for the price....well, i would buy a fleet of those
any day for a school room.
good price, and a good wheel.
have not tested one for a full year, but dannon
has several going full time at her place...and
they seem to be dandy.
mel
there is going to be stiff competition in wheels.
it is no longer a one wheel world.
(never has been.) of course, in my opinion,
the best machined wheel, made in America, is the `willy` from lockerbie.
the big soldner wheel is as good as anything built, anywhere.
but, they are high end dollar.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Valerie Hawkins on wed 3 apr 02
Could any of you more experienced potters explain to me why potter's wheels
are so expensive? They seem to be a fairly simple machine. You can buy a
really nice refrigerator for the price of the average potter's wheel. Is it
lack of competition or is there something I'm missing?
Valerie
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of mel jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:34 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: wheels
i want to make sure i give a plug to that
fairly new bailley wheel.
for the price....well, i would buy a fleet of those
any day for a school room.
good price, and a good wheel.
have not tested one for a full year, but dannon
has several going full time at her place...and
they seem to be dandy.
mel
there is going to be stiff competition in wheels.
it is no longer a one wheel world.
(never has been.) of course, in my opinion,
the best machined wheel, made in America, is the `willy` from lockerbie.
the big soldner wheel is as good as anything built, anywhere.
but, they are high end dollar.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
potterybydai on wed 3 apr 02
Hi, Valerie - the high cost of wheels (compared to refrigerators) is
probably because there are far fewer wheels built than fridges; also, a good
wheel will last you a lifetime, whereas fridges........you know. My Shimpo
is well over 30 years old, working like a hot damn, and I don't expect I
will have to replace it before I die. Just my thoughts.
Dai in Kelowna, BC
potterybydai@shaw.ca
Life is 10% what happens to you, and 90% how you
respond to it.
Philip Poburka on wed 3 apr 02
Dear Valerie,
My guess, would be that there is a little more to most Potter's Wheels than
to the average Refrigerator, so far as what goes into making them.
Also the quantities as are made of a given wheel is likely much smaller than
those of a given model of 'frige...
The Liability insurances as add to the costs of all products and all steps
and all phases and so on all the way through, add up as well to the overhead
of Production, and the weight of Wheels has more freight to recon with.
Also, as the quantities are smaller, the 'profit' is likely of a higher
percentage with a Wheel than a 'frige...
I agree that it seems to me as well, that a Good 'Wheel' should be able to
be available for much less than they are, and at no skimp on quality.
Also..general inefficiencies of production now-a-days...a 'frige has little
hand assembly and is mostly automated, where a Wheel still would have people
assembleing it and so on...
Lots of waste all the way through...I am sure.
If Henry Ford were alive and well and turned his hand to it, we'd have
excellent durable maintainable and good looking Wheels at three-hundred
bucks a pop...'FOB', Detroit...that would rival any of them.
Phil
Las Vegas...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valerie Hawkins"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: wheels
> Could any of you more experienced potters explain to me why potter's
wheels
> are so expensive? They seem to be a fairly simple machine. You can buy a
> really nice refrigerator for the price of the average potter's wheel. Is
it
> lack of competition or is there something I'm missing?
>
> Valerie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of mel jacobson
> Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 7:34 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: wheels
>
>
> i want to make sure i give a plug to that
> fairly new bailley wheel.
> for the price....well, i would buy a fleet of those
> any day for a school room.
> good price, and a good wheel.
> have not tested one for a full year, but dannon
> has several going full time at her place...and
> they seem to be dandy.
> mel
> there is going to be stiff competition in wheels.
> it is no longer a one wheel world.
> (never has been.) of course, in my opinion,
> the best machined wheel, made in America, is the `willy` from lockerbie.
> the big soldner wheel is as good as anything built, anywhere.
> but, they are high end dollar.
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
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melpots@pclink.com.
Rowdy Dragon Pottery on wed 3 apr 02
I'd look more to the distribution side of things than to production to
explain this. Demand for wheels is low enough that very few metropolitan
areas can support multiple retailers for wheels. And few, if any, of those
retailers can count on the volume of business that even a smaller, well
promoted appliance or electronics dealer can generate. Well lower turnover
means lower return on inventory. The pottery supply retailer will have a
few other big ticket items, such as kilns and pugmills, but they are likely
to have even slower turnover. For now, I'm just happy to have two
retailers around, one here in Seattle and the other in Tacoma. While their
prices may be higher than I'd like at times, they are probably no higher
than they need to be for the business to remain viable.
Neil Berkowitz
Snail Scott on wed 3 apr 02
At 08:59 AM 4/3/02 -0500, Valerie wrote:
>Could any of you more experienced potters explain to me why potter's wheels
>are so expensive? They seem to be a fairly simple machine. You can buy a
>really nice refrigerator for the price of the average potter's wheel. Is it
>lack of competition or is there something I'm missing?
>
I'd guess that if Bailey (or whoever) sold as many
wheels as GE does refrigerators, we'd see some
resulting economies of scale. Practically everybody
in the developed world owns a fridge made by a
handful of companies - millions of them sold per
year. (How many wheels were sold last year?) If
fridges were individually made in factories with a
few dozen employees, they'd probably cost the moon,
too. (Just my guess.)
-Snail
Dave Gayman on wed 3 apr 02
The following is just my guess -- wheel makers should jump right in and
correct me where I'm wrong.
I think the high cost of wheels is more due to manufacturing realities and
market status than anything else.
There are 3 primary costs of manufactured goods, the engineering & design
that stand behind them, the manufacturing and assembly that go into them,
and distribution costs. Refrigerators cost much more than a wheel to
design, but economy of manufacturing and large production runs amortize
that cost across many hundreds of thousands of units. Individual component
costs per piece drop dramatically when quantities reach a certain golden
amount... differs with different pieces, but a motor that might cost $150
at a local industrial supply in a quantity of 1 might possibly be available
at $10 each if purchased in lots of 500,000.
Unfortunately, there's not much economy of scale in making pottery
wheels. Comparatively there are many makers of pottery wheels, many types
to choose from -- any one company's output must be minuscule compared to
GE's refrigerator production. Comparatively, the makers of wheels enjoy
very little economies of scale. In addition, most pottery wheels involve
custom cast metals, increasingly costly in the U.S. and Europe due to clean
air and safety requirements.
Second is the issue of market state, which has 3 sides, the professional,
the hobby, and the educational.
On the pro side, a pottery wheel to a professional potter is a machine
tool, in economic terms a hard good that is used to generate pieces for
sale. Such a tool, provided it gives a solid 5 years or more of life, can
be used to generate many, many, many times its cost per year. (Once a week
or so, I'd make an average of 75 mugs, sold for $4 in the 1970s, in maybe 4
hours wheel time -- $300 worth of goods in less than 1/4 of a week on a
wheel that cost around that amount... plus all the other thrown things I
could make in a week...). Overall, to a professional, the cost of the
wheel is tiny, especially compared to ongoing clay and energy
costs. Wheelmakers provide a tremendous benefit to the professional potter.
Second, taken from the hobby side, the market rule is more "charge what the
market will bear." Ceramics is not a poor person's sport. The wife of a
surgeon or the husband of a high tech engineer will not care whether a
wheel is $150 or $1,200... both amounts are chump change to a family making
$140,000 or more a year. To the wheel manufacturer, $1,200 is a more
attractive price.
Third, taken from the education side, schools and colleges provide an
amazingly unsophisticated purchasing field -- again, it's charge what the
market will bear, in this case helped out by the fact that things are being
sold to naive people who generally use money given to them by
legislators. I don't think we'll see the cost of wheels go down as a
result of sales to the educational channel... compare the cost of textbooks
to comparable hardback offerings at your local Barnes & Noble. And I mean
hardbacks with limited runs comparable to textbook runs.
Finally, distribution costs have to be factored in. Stores and
distributors expect to make a profit on goods they sell, so the actual
price of a wheel is going to be 50% or so of the suggested retail. A
certain additional amount goes toward transportation. Marketing and
promotion will contribute further to costs.
The alternative for those without professional profits, or support by an
upscale family, is to make your own. You trade the convenience of being
able to order a more or less well-designed wheel at a store (or online) for
the inconvenience of matching components; finding sources that will sell
you 1 of such things as motor, bearings or controller; and making drawings
for machine shops that will cut decks and wheelheads.
Unfortunately, you might not save that much. Just a wild guess, but I'd
bet that to put together a half-horsepower wheel from scratch will probably
run around $400 in components, assuming you buy everything new from
standard suppliers. Charge yourself $25 an hour for assembly and
re-assembly (and re-assembly... those of you who have take on this kind of
task know what I mean), and you'll hit $800 very quickly. The positive
side is that the outlay is bit-by-bit -- I could only have built my own
propane-fired kiln, because I didn't have upfront money, and never had much
more $150 to spend at any one time... and while the total came to well over
$7,500 in 1976... it was all paid for prior to the first firing, on a
reverse-installment plan...
At 08:59 AM 4/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Could any of you more experienced potters explain to me why potter's wheels
>are so expensive? They seem to be a fairly simple machine. You can buy a
>really nice refrigerator for the price of the average potter's wheel. Is it
>lack of competition or is there something I'm missing?
>
>Valerie
Mark Potter on wed 3 apr 02
I'm jumping into this one. .. .
True, true, all true. Yes, the R&D costs have to split up amongst all the
purchasers, (less for fridges than for wheels) and distribution costs are
higher because lower volumes move, each player wants a larger markup. .. .
But Dave, aren't you just offering an apology for what is wrong with our
society, market forces run amuck, literally. In the same breath why don't
you explain why homes are now built so badly in California that break-ins
occur with a matt knife, or why the average bolt or nail bought a depot is
made of steel softer than cheese. Or why two job families still can't afford
health insurance, or why the quality of food consumed by the labor classes
in this country gives you cancer . . . Such things cannot be explained
purely by economics, but the economist, who wants to make himself powerless
to change anything, will use economics to explain it.
And conversely the Brent wheel is overbuilt compared to what the country
potter of old worked on. But his cost of capital was far lower . . . and
when it broke . . . he could fix it. His wheel was crude yet he could throw
a thousand pots in a day . . . back to that thread.
But none of this is an adequate explanation of why things are what they are.
We hate to admit this to ourselves, but the high cost of health care comes
down to the fact that people aren't healthy and want someone else to do
something about it. Same with tools. Make your own tools where possible and
lower your capital costs. Find something broken and fix it.
I'll offer this as an explanation . . . our effectiveness as an artists
and craftsman is inversely proportional to the amount of capital at our
disposal . . . there try that on for size.
We should look to ourselves and build our own world as we want it.
If the potter's wheels seem too expensive - THEY ARE!! Use something truly
crude and master it. You'll learn far more. Did you know that a rubber belt
can be hooked up onto a Shimpo banding wheel and yes - you can throw on it!!
I'm advancing the argument that economics always exists and always existed,
in the planned economies of the Eastern Bloc, in our economy when it was an
infant back in colonial times, and today. These economics should not become
a 'reason' or an 'apology' or a justification of why something is the case.
The future is ours to shape, not to blame on the mathematics of the present.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Dave Gayman
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 2:03 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: wheels
The following is just my guess -- wheel makers should jump right in and
correct me where I'm wrong.
I think the high cost of wheels is more due to manufacturing realities and
market status than anything else.
There are 3 primary costs of manufactured goods, the engineering & design
that stand behind them, the manufacturing and assembly that go into them,
and distribution costs. Refrigerators cost much more than a wheel to
design, but economy of manufacturing and large production runs amortize
that cost across many hundreds of thousands of units. Individual component
costs per piece drop dramatically when quantities reach a certain golden
amount... differs with different pieces, but a motor that might cost $150
at a local industrial supply in a quantity of 1 might possibly be available
at $10 each if purchased in lots of 500,000.
Unfortunately, there's not much economy of scale in making pottery
wheels. Comparatively there are many makers of pottery wheels, many types
to choose from -- any one company's output must be minuscule compared to
GE's refrigerator production. Comparatively, the makers of wheels enjoy
very little economies of scale. In addition, most pottery wheels involve
custom cast metals, increasingly costly in the U.S. and Europe due to clean
air and safety requirements.
Second is the issue of market state, which has 3 sides, the professional,
the hobby, and the educational.
On the pro side, a pottery wheel to a professional potter is a machine
tool, in economic terms a hard good that is used to generate pieces for
sale. Such a tool, provided it gives a solid 5 years or more of life, can
be used to generate many, many, many times its cost per year. (Once a week
or so, I'd make an average of 75 mugs, sold for $4 in the 1970s, in maybe 4
hours wheel time -- $300 worth of goods in less than 1/4 of a week on a
wheel that cost around that amount... plus all the other thrown things I
could make in a week...). Overall, to a professional, the cost of the
wheel is tiny, especially compared to ongoing clay and energy
costs. Wheelmakers provide a tremendous benefit to the professional potter.
Second, taken from the hobby side, the market rule is more "charge what the
market will bear." Ceramics is not a poor person's sport. The wife of a
surgeon or the husband of a high tech engineer will not care whether a
wheel is $150 or $1,200... both amounts are chump change to a family making
$140,000 or more a year. To the wheel manufacturer, $1,200 is a more
attractive price.
Third, taken from the education side, schools and colleges provide an
amazingly unsophisticated purchasing field -- again, it's charge what the
market will bear, in this case helped out by the fact that things are being
sold to naive people who generally use money given to them by
legislators. I don't think we'll see the cost of wheels go down as a
result of sales to the educational channel... compare the cost of textbooks
to comparable hardback offerings at your local Barnes & Noble. And I mean
hardbacks with limited runs comparable to textbook runs.
Finally, distribution costs have to be factored in. Stores and
distributors expect to make a profit on goods they sell, so the actual
price of a wheel is going to be 50% or so of the suggested retail. A
certain additional amount goes toward transportation. Marketing and
promotion will contribute further to costs.
The alternative for those without professional profits, or support by an
upscale family, is to make your own. You trade the convenience of being
able to order a more or less well-designed wheel at a store (or online) for
the inconvenience of matching components; finding sources that will sell
you 1 of such things as motor, bearings or controller; and making drawings
for machine shops that will cut decks and wheelheads.
Unfortunately, you might not save that much. Just a wild guess, but I'd
bet that to put together a half-horsepower wheel from scratch will probably
run around $400 in components, assuming you buy everything new from
standard suppliers. Charge yourself $25 an hour for assembly and
re-assembly (and re-assembly... those of you who have take on this kind of
task know what I mean), and you'll hit $800 very quickly. The positive
side is that the outlay is bit-by-bit -- I could only have built my own
propane-fired kiln, because I didn't have upfront money, and never had much
more $150 to spend at any one time... and while the total came to well over
$7,500 in 1976... it was all paid for prior to the first firing, on a
reverse-installment plan...
At 08:59 AM 4/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>Could any of you more experienced potters explain to me why potter's wheels
>are so expensive? They seem to be a fairly simple machine. You can buy a
>really nice refrigerator for the price of the average potter's wheel. Is
it
>lack of competition or is there something I'm missing?
>
>Valerie
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
vince pitelka on wed 3 apr 02
> Could any of you more experienced potters explain to me why potter's
wheels
> are so expensive? They seem to be a fairly simple machine. You can buy a
> really nice refrigerator for the price of the average potter's wheel. Is
it
> lack of competition or is there something I'm missing?
Could someone please explain to me why refrigerators are so expensive? I
mean, they seem like fairly simple machines, and yet you can buy an electric
pottery wheel for the price of a good refrigerator.
Valerie -
I hope you get my point. You can look at it either way. But ultimately you
get what you pay for. The DC electronic controls and variable speed motors
used on electric pottery wheels are very expensive. That is most of the
cost of the good electric wheels. You have to use that circuitry in order
to have full power at all speeds. Ordinary AC motors cannot do that. All
of the electronic variable-speed wheels give constant power to some extent,
but the more expensive ones have better speed-control circuitry, and they
have a "feedback circuit" which gives the most even, constant power
throughout the full speed range.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
F.Chapman Baudelot on thu 4 apr 02
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Valerie wrote:
>Could any of you more experienced potters explain to me why potter's wheels
>are so expensive? They seem to be a fairly simple machine. You can buy a
>really nice refrigerator for the price of the average potter's wheel. Is=
it
>lack of competition or is there something I'm missing?
I think the answer is supply and demand. Just about everyone has a=20
refrigerator, which means that millions are sold. How many people own=20
Potter's wheels? A very small percentage of the general population. Also,=
=20
we expect a potter's wheel to last for 20 years or so, and it usually does=
=20
so sales are limited. There is a far greater turnover of refrigerators,=20
which is not to say they are not fairly durable, but people (other than=20
potters, lol) seem to want the latest, biggest new model. I think that is=20
why wheels are relatively expensive, kilns too.
Fran=E7oise in Spain who shipped her 6 year old Pacifica over from Canada=20
expecting it to last as long as she lives.
http://indalopottery.tripod.com/fenix.html
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iandol on thu 4 apr 02
Dear Valerie Hawkins,
Yes, Wheels do seem expensive. Perhaps the important parts which have to =
wear for ever are hidden away.
But if you think about the earning power of one potter on one wheel, for =
maybe a lifetime, it seems to me to be cheap investment. I recommend =
buying two just to be on the safe side. I have one for white and one for =
brown. In my time I have met production potters who were embarrassed =
when their sole workhorse died. Buy the best you can afford with a =
strong motor, stout bearings and robust switchgear.
Best regards,
Ivor.
Dave Gayman on thu 4 apr 02
At 07:28 PM 4/3/2002 -0500, you wrote:
>But Dave, aren't you just offering an apology for what is wrong with our
>society, market forces run amuck,
Mark, to tell the truth, I was more trying to describe than judging, and
certainly not apologizing. I will say that I don't see many potter's
wheels that seem to be engineered on the edge or shoddy -- but, as you say,
most of what's offered on the market in general is now on the edge in terms
of engineering, and produced as cheaply as possible from the cheapest
possible materials. It's this way because we've all voted with our wallets
and pocketbooks and pretty much unanimously gone for junk over quality.
>I'll offer this as an explanation . . . our effectiveness as an artists
>and craftsman is inversely proportional to the amount of capital at our
>disposal . . . there try that on for size.
I respectfully disagree. An artist with cash to spend is not obviously
effective or ineffective. In music, Bach, Mozart and Haydn were all
comfortable... that Mozart was a spendthrift (non-structured with money)
doesn't seem to jibe with the very tight structure of his music, but he
still made millions in today's cash. But so did a lot of composers who are
now forgotten footnotes, fodder only for PhD studies in music. In
painting, Picasso and Leroy Nieman both made tons of cash, but it would
surprise me indeed if a century from now Nieman is seen as a great artist.
Some artists, at least since the Romantic era in the early 1800s, revel in
non-acceptance, and because they are not accepted (especially by those with
disposable income to spend on art), they don't have much money. But the
really great ones seem to find a way to bridge between current popular
taste and genuine artistic expression, like Shakespeare or (I would argue)
Aaron Copland. Both Will and Aaron took a ton of money to the bank.
As for scrounging or making your own... I guess I agree... at least my
now-closed path as a pro pretty much says that...
I first threw (for several years) on an ancient electric wheel, purchased
for $25 (on 3 installments) without a motor. Then I saved up and bought a
Skutt wheel (anyone remember those?), a workhorse design and very tough,
but I never felt comfortable with it. Then I made my own kickwheel and
used it for a few months (talk about bad design!) Finally, I closed out my
pot-throwing career on a Soldner kick wheel, the most beautiful machine
functionally and visually that I've ever had a chance to use day-in,
day-out for years on end.
There isn't any way I could have appreciated the Soldner without first
having gone through the design process (and done it badly), or understood
through experience that I hated the noise and artificial control of powered
wheels, no matter how well designed. I compromised -- mounted a motor on
the Soldner for centering -- but for me there was nothing like the moments
to contemplate a given stage of a pot, to think as you brought a wheel back
up to speed with your right foot -- and the denouement of a pot's
development, as the wheel slowly decelerated and you held the chamois to
the lip or you notched the base or you made a final pass with the inside
hand, a final breath of life, or ran the cutoff string under it to free it
from the wheelhead, and on the last few revolutions lifted the new baby
onto a ware board to dry.
John Baymore on thu 4 apr 02
Valerie,
Here's some thoughts, for what it's worth....... =
There are numerous factors at work that all add up to the price that majo=
r
potters tools tend to sell at.
Could any of you more experienced potters explain to me why potter's whee=
ls
are so expensive? They seem to be a fairly simple machine. You can buy =
a
really nice refrigerator for the price of the average potter's wheel. Is=
it
lack of competition or is there something I'm missing?
First is the factor of selling to a limited market. If you make those ne=
w
propane "overfill protection" tank valves and sell them to 50 million
people.... you can amortize the development costs out to 50 million units=
. =
Initial design (and onging refinement) costs per unit in that case is
miniscule. However, if you happen to make the mirror for the Hubble
Telescope..... your development costs all get lumped into one single unit=
. =
Add to these costs the costs to MARKET to that same limited audience. =
Initial advertising development, say for print, is pretty fixed....... an=
d
when the "run" of printing is done...... the more reproductions you
print...... the lower the piece of the development costs per impression. =
While WE think there are a lot of potters ....... we are really a pret=
ty
small market, all in all.
The market for refrigerators and stoves and cars and such is HUGE! They
are truly "mass produced" items. Compared to those standards of
production.... potter's wheels are hand made . And refrigerators may =
be
bigger than a potter's wheel...... but they really are pretty simple unit=
s
too.
Second factor is the cost of employee labor for the wheel manufacturer. =
A
reasonably skilled craftsperson in most fields gets far more than potters=
all too often seem to think their time is worth . (Just call your
plumber !!!!! ) Then there is the cost of the Employer's Contribution =
to
FICA, Workmen's Comp, and Medicare, and so on. Most companies figure on
about 28% additional cost over the "stated" hourly wage. Then add the co=
st
of any benefits offered. Also factor in a little lost labor through
employee sick time.
Third is something that is tightly related to both one and two above. =
Because of the limited market, not too much real automation is often
used....cause the investment in that technology is not cost effective fo=
r
such low production....and that results in higher hand labor hours per
unit. (Look at how a lot of a car is built today..... programmed robots.=
) =
Luckily some manufacturers do pottery equipment as only one part of an
overall production of other similar mechanical equipment targeted to othe=
r
industries...... so they average out some manufacturing equipment
investment over multiple industries.
Fourth is the cost of some of the component parts that the potters wheel
manufacturers purchase to assemble into their product. Go check out the
price for a 1 HP DC electric motor like is used on a Brent CXC. They ain=
't
cheap items in and of themselves even wholesale to the OEM. Oh yeah....
add the shipping costs for the quite HEAVY motor from the electric motor
manufacturer to the wheel manufacturer. Then put together a good high
amperage AC/DC power supply with supurb (and quiet) rectification and
voltage regulation. That's not cheap either.
Now..... add in a bit for liability insurance for the finished product. =
Add in a little for materials wastage in manufacture. Add in the cost of=
disposal of hazardous wastes (paint solvents and the like). Add in a
little for making sure the facilty is OSHA compliant. Add in high energy=
costs for production facilities. Add in real estate costs. Add in a
little for some bad debts. Add in a little profit. So on....so on....so=
on. =
Then you get to the real end point issue....... how many wheels can you
actually sell in a year? How much do you need to make to feed your famil=
y?
What does the profit margin need to be to accomplish this? If I sell 6
gazillion refrigerators, the margin can be small. If I sell 1000 potter'=
s
wheels....... it has to be much higher to equal the same thing.
So I think that's how you get the prices you typically see. I REALLY don=
't
think that anyone is "ripping us off" and getting "rich" at our expense i=
n
this endeavor.
I've had my workhorse Brent CXC wheel in professional use for over 25
years. Kicked the crap out of it and it is still ticking quite nicely,
thank you very much. Never even replaced a belt. Replaced a rectifier i=
n
the power supply (free materials....I did the labor) once about 20 years
ago. I'd have to go look at what I paid for it.....and that would probab=
ly
give me a good chuckle now ...... but even at today's roughly $1000
price.............. that would make the tool cost me about $40 per year. =
WHAT a bargain!
How many pots have been made on that wheel? What price have they been so=
ld
for? That wheel owes me NOTHING!!!!!!!!! Make ten $100 pots.... and the=
wheel is paid for. Make a hundred $10 pots..... and the wheel is paid fo=
r.
You get the picture. One of my favorite quotes about learning to be a
potter is from Hamada Shoji. "Clay and wheel..... they teach us." How
much has that CXC taught me over the years? Immeasurable amounts! In th=
at
sense, it's actually kinda' priceless . I guess I should call it
"Brent-sensei" .
Now...... another thought......... A beginning student, "hobbyist", or
"avocational potter" probably doesn't NEED a 1 HP brick *&^%house, $1000+=
wheel. A potter buying a wheel at the age of 80 probably doesn't NEED a
wheel that will last at least 25-30 years . "WANT" is another thing
altogether ........ I WANT that neat one-of-a-kind 1.5 HP CXC+
prototype that I talked to the Brent folks about at the NCECA booth this
year. This situation reminds me of Tim's "ToolTime" show on the "Home
Improvement" TV show ......... I WANT that extra 1/2 HP.......... guess
it's a "guy thing"< BG>. ("Binford Wheels" anyone?) I probably won't
BUY it...... cause I don't really NEED it.
There are lower priced wheels available for those that aren't going to
throw 50-100 pound pots, nor use the wheel 5-8 hours a day, 5 days a week=
,
be making pots for the next 30-40 years, or something like that. For
example the Brent Model C is a reall great all around wheel for most
people. There are a lot of good wheels available out there....and gettin=
g
to be more choices all the time. Many of those wheels will work just fin=
e
for most people. Look for the distinguishing features between them that=
matter to you.
Don't feel that you have to buy a formula one car to commute to work.....=
..
just because the real "pros" use them. That is, unless you are aspiring =
to
drive at Indy and you need that tool NOW to reach your goals. Maybe=
get the family car to learn to drive, find an old stock car to learn to
drive on the track and develop your skills, and THEN see if, given a good=
knowledge base of driving, you really do NEED that Indy car after all. =
If
you do...... BUY IT.
So....... I think "expensive" is kinda' a relative term in more ways than=
one.
Hope this helps with thinking about it. As they say...... "one man's
opinion".
Best,
..............................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JohnBaymore.com
JBaymore@compuserve.com
"DATES SET: Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop Augu=
st
16-25, 2002"
Harvey Sadow on sat 7 dec 02
At the Armory's studio the most popular, lowest maintenance, easiest to
move around and cheapest wheels in the studio are the Pacifica GT
400's. Good combination! The foot pedals stay properly adjusted, they
are quiet and strong. I like them so much I bought one for myself. I
would get the adjustable leg set, too.
Harvey Sadow
Chairman: Ceramics Department
Armory Art Center
John Rodgers on sun 18 may 03
My $0.02.
I came to thrown pottery work late in life, and late in my career in
clay, but have now been throwing for 6 years. In that time I have worked
the stew out of two Brent CXC's, two Creative Industries Wheels (big
ones with the tables), one kick wheel and one jiggering machine. All
were good, but all had their problems and faults.
The Brents are smooth, but noisy. The Brent is short on table space, but
I have come up with a table that is sort of a section out of a big
circle that is cut from plywood, is covered with a plastic laminate like
Wilsonart or Formica, and is attached to the wheel table with C-clamps.
The sides curve out and back around the wheel, forming a very convenient
table for tools, etc. One thing I especially like about the big Brents
is the smoothness of the foot pedal through the entire rpm range. I
have yet to find another brand as smooth.
The CI wheels were nice, and never had any mechanical problems, but the
action of the foot control was not smooth on either machine. There was
quite a bit of movement on startup before the wheel would begin to turn,
then it would jump suddenly to a higher rpm than I wanted. Was never
able to get that quirk out of either one. I really liked the tables that
were part of the wheel, however.Easy to clean up and had built in drains.
Kick wheel was one of many designs found "out there"!
The momentum wheel ws heavy steel and would really keep things turning.
But the electric wheels were more convenient, and so went the way of the
Dodo bird!
The jiggering machine was A-OK. Fun to work with, but a trial so far as
getting ready to use. Had to make molds, profile plates, adjust the
moisture in the clay, It was a pita, but is a common method for clay
working. Wish I had a jiggering attachment for my Brent potter's wheel.
Axner Wheels. Axner now has new wheels available. All reports are they
are really good. Haven't used one yet, but something that intrigues me
is the fact that the new wheels all have a variety of accessories
available including a jiggering arm.
My $0.02
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
mel jacobson on wed 26 may 04
i can only give the list a quick
personal listing of wheels...here it is:
mel's thoughts.
the brent always works. a great wheel
bailey wheels work. good value.
the best bargain is axner.
they work. solid, and for under 500, a steal.
the best wheel for the dollar is thomas stuart.
great torque, power and value. best power of all of them.
i love the willie wheel from lockerbie.
it is a jewel, but, it has to fit you.
creative industry is getting better and better.
working hard to make a good product.
many love the new shimpo whisper wheel.
i have not used it.
pacifica is smooth as glass. a great wheel now
that the foot pedal problems are solved.
those are the one's that i have used and know best.
soldner is high end, and has had some minor problems.
still a great wheel. but, must fit you.
the bottom line still comes to:
what do you want, what are you going to make
and how much do you want to spend? a wheel
will last you many years.
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
Gail Dapogny on wed 26 may 04
Mel's advice is excellent. Also consider company support ---and
probably you have to go by hearsay on this topic. I happen to be very
fond of an old Shimpo that I use, but recently a newish one in our
guild gave someone a severe shock. The wheel was returned via the
distributor to Shimpo who returned it to us after a long time. Not
only was the problem not solved, but it did not seem to have been
worked on. The particular persons contacted at Shimpo more or less
washed their hands of it. Left it up to us. Not cool.
Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor
On May 26, 2004, at 1:33 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> i can only give the list a quick
> personal listing of wheels...here it is:
> mel's thoughts.
>
> the brent always works. a great wheel
>
> bailey wheels work. good value.
>
> the best bargain is axner.
> they work. solid, and for under 500, a steal.
>
> the best wheel for the dollar is thomas stuart.
> great torque, power and value. best power of all of them.
>
> i love the willie wheel from lockerbie.
> it is a jewel, but, it has to fit you.
>
> creative industry is getting better and better.
> working hard to make a good product.
>
> many love the new shimpo whisper wheel.
> i have not used it.
>
> pacifica is smooth as glass. a great wheel now
> that the foot pedal problems are solved.
>
> those are the one's that i have used and know best.
>
> soldner is high end, and has had some minor problems.
> still a great wheel. but, must fit you.
>
> the bottom line still comes to:
> what do you want, what are you going to make
> and how much do you want to spend? a wheel
> will last you many years.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
John Bandurchin on thu 22 sep 05
Hi Folks
Has anyone had a chance to directly compare the Shimpo VL Whisper with =
the Soldner S50 or S100?
One thing I like about the Whisper is that when you put your heel down =
on the foot pedal, the wheel STOPS. I also like the ability to slow =
down while working. It's difficult to do this with our Brent - I have =
to stop it and then get it going again to the speed I want. Replaced =
the little speed control thing inside the foot pedal but it didn't =
improve the situation at all.
Is the Soldner relatively quiet? I really like the Whisper's silence.
John Bandurchin
Baltimore Ontario Canada =20
Otto Wenger on fri 7 sep 07
I am in the process of deciding on which wheel to purchase. My goal is to
throw Big so sturdy is important. Thomas Stuart suggests that their motors
are stronger and better suited to the rigors of throwing large. The Shimpo
rep says it's simply an attempt by Thomas to respond to the Shimpo whisper
quiet brushless wheels. Is there merit to the Thomas Stuart argument or are
the brushless motors on Shimpo wheels perfectly adequate?
Also, The best prices I have found have been at Clay-King. Are they a good
company with good customer service?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Otto Wenger
William & Susan Schran User on fri 7 sep 07
On 9/7/07 1:45 PM, "Otto Wenger" wrote:
> I am in the process of deciding on which wheel to purchase. My goal is to
> throw Big so sturdy is important. Thomas Stuart suggests that their motors
> are stronger and better suited to the rigors of throwing large. The Shimpo
> rep says it's simply an attempt by Thomas to respond to the Shimpo whisper
> quiet brushless wheels. Is there merit to the Thomas Stuart argument or are
> the brushless motors on Shimpo wheels perfectly adequate?
> Also, The best prices I have found have been at Clay-King. Are they a good
> company with good customer service?
I use the Shimpo VL Whisper in my studio and have been pleased with it. I
have not tried to throw very large amounts of clay on the Shimpo, but I have
no problems with up to 20 pounds. I've worked on Thomas Stuart wheels at
some workshops and found them strong, but rather noisy. I'd also suggest you
look into the Solder wheel.
I've purchased, both for myself and through the school several items from
Clay-King and have found them reliable.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Randall Moody on fri 7 sep 07
I have the TS Pro. I love it! The only drawback that I see is that to throw
large platters you have to spend an extra $65 or so on a shaft extension.
The motor is larger than the Shimpo's. How large are you speaking of, as in
how much clay? I haven't had any problems centering 25lbs ... at least not
from the wheel.
On 9/7/07, Otto Wenger wrote:
>
> I am in the process of deciding on which wheel to purchase. My goal is to
> throw Big so sturdy is important. Thomas Stuart suggests that their motors
> are stronger and better suited to the rigors of throwing large. The Shimpo
> rep says it's simply an attempt by Thomas to respond to the Shimpo whisper
> quiet brushless wheels. Is there merit to the Thomas Stuart argument or
> are
> the brushless motors on Shimpo wheels perfectly adequate?
> Also, The best prices I have found have been at Clay-King. Are they a good
> company with good customer service?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Otto Wenger
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
Keba M Hitzeman on fri 7 sep 07
Otto,
I've purchased several items from Clay-King and have had no problems with
delivery or customer service. E-mails have been responded to quickly, as
well. And, yes, they do have good prices!
Keba
Keba M. Hitzeman
Spanish Consultant
www.keba.hitzeman.com
kmhitzeman@hitzeman.com
Clay artist - what can I throw for you today?
Need coffee? Fresh roasted, whole bean or ground. Small batches for
quality.
coffee@engima22.com
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand
ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell
<))><
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Otto Wenger
Sent: Friday, 07 September, 2007 13:46
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Wheels
I am in the process of deciding on which wheel to purchase. My goal is to
throw Big so sturdy is important. Thomas Stuart suggests that their motors
are stronger and better suited to the rigors of throwing large. The Shimpo
rep says it's simply an attempt by Thomas to respond to the Shimpo whisper
quiet brushless wheels. Is there merit to the Thomas Stuart argument or are
the brushless motors on Shimpo wheels perfectly adequate?
Also, The best prices I have found have been at Clay-King. Are they a good
company with good customer service?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Otto Wenger
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
John Sankey on sat 8 sep 07
"The best prices I have found have been at Clay-King. Are they a
good company with good customer service?"
100% in my experience. But, also in my sad experience, stay away
from Creative Industries no matter how big the pots they show
in their literature. If I knew then what I know now about how
many problems people have had with them, I wouldn't have gone
anywhere near their products.
Josh Berkus on sat 8 sep 07
John,
> 100% in my experience. But, also in my sad experience, stay away
> from Creative Industries no matter how big the pots they show
> in their literature. If I knew then what I know now about how
> many problems people have had with them, I wouldn't have gone
> anywhere near their products.
In contrast, I found the Artista to be excellent for a portable wheel. Can't
speak for the larger wheels, though.
I will agree that their "centers 50lbs" claims are nonsense, but when ever
have manufacturer's claims on wheel centering capacity meant anything?
--
The Fuzzy Chef
San Francisco
Lili Krakowski on thu 5 nov 09
A potter's wheel is a lathe. It has a flat surface perpendicular to a =3D
shaft. The shaft is set in a socket of some sort. The shaft is spun in =
=3D
the socket and the potter "turns" the clay on the flat surface. Cardew =3D
has a design for using that "cup" at the bottom of a wine bottle as a =3D
socket. I have used a cast iron griddle (sans handle ) as a wheel head.
One can, without much trouble, build a good wheel out of scrap lumber, =3D
and salvaged bearings. Big deal. Cost should be like $50.
One can buils a more elegant one (type the Wildenhains and Rie used) =3D
according to easy plan in Charles Counts' book. Also plans for Leach =3D
wheel are available.One can use teak one has harvested oneself in =3D
Burma, or canella from Brazil, or one can use wood from dumpsters.
One can buy a super duper electric motorized, supersonic, high falutin' =
=3D
wheel for a young fortune! Very impressive.=3D20
But you have to decide: are you going to put this thing in your living =3D
room as a trophy so all your guests can oh and ah over this magnificent =3D
object, or are you putting it in a working studio where it will get beat =
=3D
up and muddy =3D20
and like that? If you pay that extra $500 or more for a wheel you can =3D
center 100 lbs on...can you easily center even 20 lbs?
You want a wheel that:
Fits your body. Mel and Lee can fold themselves up and throw Japanese =3D
style, legs crossed in the lotus position or something. Can you? Then =3D
Asian wheels are out. =3D20
Are you a well-endowed "comfortable" (ok! fat!!) female? Or a =3D
well-rounded man? Forget the Leach wheel. Are you a large man with =3D
vigorous movements, so that in slapping a lump of clay onto the wheel =3D
you will move the whole wheel? =3D20
Are you going to use the wheel every day all day? Or sometimes? What =3D
does electricity cost where you are? Do you need to feed an 8 =3D
Clydesdales motor to throw cups, and mugs (DON'T start THAT again!) and =3D
casseroles etc.
Do you need or want the splashpan that comes with the wheel? Do you =3D
like the type and location of pedal?
I just bought a wheel that is highly portable (vide infra) and very =3D
nice--except the design inspired by the dromedary and ithas a hump, =3D
housing the motor, that prevents trowing wide plates. Advantage to me? =
=3D
Portability, ease of cleaning, quiet. Exacgly what I wanted for what I =3D
wanted it for!
Potters get very set in their wheel ways, and devoted to a brand or =3D
style.* I was given a Shimpo RK2--and did not use it...good wheel I am =3D
told--not for me. Among other things: it had belts and when the belts =3D
needed changing ? Oy!!
DO NOT SKIMP ON EXPLORATION!!!
See if you can test others' wheels. Go to a dealer and sit at different =
=3D
wheels. Try them if possible. If you throw standing up, is it easy to =3D
raise the thing? Do not hurry. This is a lifetime deal. Check if it =3D
fits your space. Is it easy to pack if YOU move? Can you position it =3D
comfortably in your studio with your light sources?
Also: check around. You might get a good deal. The economy is not =3D
exactly giggly right now. A supplier may have a a special coming up.=3D20
*Several good friends with lifelong devotions to a certain brand of car =3D
are devastated that their brand is going under! So sad, after a long =3D
and loving relationship!
=3D20
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Lee Love on thu 5 nov 09
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:27 AM, Lili Krakowski wr=
=3D
ote:
> Fits your body. =3DA0Mel and Lee can fold themselves up and throw Japanes=
e
>style, legs crossed in the lotus position or something. Can you? =3DA0Then=
A=3D
sian
> wheels are out.
Lili, very few people use these wheels in Japan any longer. The one
you are speaking about above are Okinawan hand wheels.
I had a steel plate put on the bottom of the axle of my Korean wheel.
I hope to build a platform this spring. As it is, it is portable and
I can use it for demoing.
I wish everybody could start on a wheel like this. it
would help folks avoid learning a lot of bad habits.
> DO NOT SKIMP ON EXPLORATION!!!
If you can take classes at a clay center, one that has multiple
types of wheels, it is a good place to try different kinds out.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=3DF3g ar chul an tI=3D97tIr dlainn trina ch=3DE9ile"=3D97tha=
t is, "T=3D
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Jess McKenzie on thu 5 nov 09
If wheel type and brand were magic solutions, we'd
steal the one owned by Mata Prasad, the cup wallah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DRFV5kP0HioY&feature=3Dpl
ayer_embedded
BTW, Cardew called throwing off the hump "Japanese
throwing," but we wonder about that after watching
this video. Very educational; also, for us, a nice
lesson in humility.
~joan and jess
Lee Love wrote, in part:
Lili, very few people use these wheels in Japan any
longer. The one you are speaking about above are
Okinawan hand wheels.
I had a steel plate put on the bottom of the axle of
my Korean wheel. I hope to build a platform this
spring. As it is, it is portable and I can use it
for demoing.
I wish everybody could start on a wheel like this.
it would help folks avoid learning a lot of bad
habits. ...
Vince Pitelka on thu 5 nov 09
Joan and Jess posted this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DRFV5kP0HioY&feature=3Dplayer_embedded
When this link was posted a few months ago, I commented that this design
remains virtually unchanged for 4500 years. It first appeared in Palestine
around 2500 BC as the world's earliest true pottery wheel. The only change
is that the earlier stone wheels, as they were used until less than 100
years ago, had a hole bored in the bottom like an inverted "V," and they
rotated on a greased, sharpened hardwood stick. Sometime in the last
century they started using a tapered roller bearing assembly salvaged off
the front axle of a car, and the wheel itself is often cast concrete. Sinc=
e
they are only using one race and bearing, the wheel still wobbles a bit.
This type of wheel is still in common use in many places in the Middle East=
,
South Asia, and East Asia.
I think that throwing off the hump is historically common throughout the
same vast area, and it is hard to know where it first originated, because
you cannot tell from a pot whether it was thrown off the hump.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
ELAINE CARROLL on wed 24 feb 10
My Brent works fine also.
Elaine Carroll
Earth, Fire & Passion
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