William & Susan Schran User on fri 30 mar 07
On 3/29/07 6:14 PM, "Russel Fouts" wrote:
> I don't think it's fair to ask the vendors to stay later. They've
> already done a lot of work to get their booths ready, move all that
> stuff to the conference hall and set it up.
>
> They are also pretty much stuck to the booth all day as well.
Having owned a storefront business for a decade I have to disagree.
Stores need to be open when people want to shop.
If NCECA membership says we want vendors to be open until 8pm one of the
nights, well then, perhaps that day they open at 12 or 1pm and stay open
later.
Who knows what missed opportunities they may have had because a teacher from
some college may have been looking for new equipment, but was attending
presentations all day and couldn't get to the vendors until they had shut
down for the day.
There's positive & negative on both sides of the issue, but why not give
change a chance?
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on fri 30 mar 07
Hi Bill, all...
I find the term 'Vendor' to be a little vulgar or insulting.
A 'Coke Machine' is 'a vendor'...or maybe some schmuck selling tepid grey
hot dogs from a van or push-cart is...
The term 'Commercial Exhibitor' at least leaves some room for something more
or better to be innocently anticipated or even actually present.
But, as a sometimes Commercial Exhibitor at the 'nceca' events, I myself
would be happy to have longer hours, so long as the attendance in the
Exhibition Hall were to encourage it.
After all, Commercial Exhibitors have come all that way, and typically at
huge expense and logistical duress, or have done so only to confront a net
financial loss for their troubles once the dust has settled, for the
opportunity not only to show their Wares, but, also, and maybe more-so, to
meet and talk with their Customers and impending Customers in-person, and to
do so in the actual physical presence of those Wares.
If 'nceca' cared about the Commercial Exhibitors as anything more than
stupid fat Cows to be exploited perfunctorily out of the coersion for want
of any other venues, there might be some more intelligent appreciations of
them, or, for how their presence is a significant componant of the
in-essense "Trade Show' which the event actually is, if one can see through
the mystifications and gloss of the thing.
It is a 'Trade Show' which enjoys a not-for-profit status, but is more
greedy and makes far MORE "profit" than most respectable and honest Trade
Shows do, or feel they need to do.
The best Antiquarian Arms Shows, being "for profit", charge more or less
$125.00 for an Exhibitor Station or 'booth' and occur in the finest Hotels
or Convention facilitys.
One is in the midst of perhapy eighty-five or a hundred million dollars
worth of the finest Antique Arms and associated relics and acoutremon.
They also 'jury' who may and who may not be an exhibitor, based on the
quality of the person(s) and their prospective Wares and their fittingness
to the event's reputation. They typically charge $5.00 or 7.00 for a Day
Pass, or $20.00 for the full Show pass that has additional priveldges.
They make lots of money for their promotors.
'nceca' charges $1650.00 for a little station or 'booth'...and has no care
whatsoever what kind of crap anyone is trying to sell there, or whether one
is just-another-retailer looking for hyped-up travel and business losses to
write off for disingenuous paper-tax-games, or is an ingenuous
producer...just so long as they get the money for letting the person or
business sell it there. And of course they charge a great deal for one's
addmittance or attendance, even punishing brutally with "late fees' anyone
who does not caugh up the money 'early' enough.
Sad, really...
Ugly, even...
Best wishes,
Philip Poburka
Bison Studios
Las Vegas, Nevada
&c.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William & Susan Schran User"
> On 3/29/07 6:14 PM, "Russel Fouts" wrote:
>
>> I don't think it's fair to ask the vendors to stay later. They've
>> already done a lot of work to get their booths ready, move all that
>> stuff to the conference hall and set it up.
>>
>> They are also pretty much stuck to the booth all day as well.
>
> Having owned a storefront business for a decade I have to disagree.
> Stores need to be open when people want to shop.
> If NCECA membership says we want vendors to be open until 8pm one of the
> nights, well then, perhaps that day they open at 12 or 1pm and stay open
> later.
> Who knows what missed opportunities they may have had because a teacher
> from
> some college may have been looking for new equipment, but was attending
> presentations all day and couldn't get to the vendors until they had shut
> down for the day.
>
> There's positive & negative on both sides of the issue, but why not give
> change a chance?
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
Russel Fouts on fri 30 mar 07
>> "I felt that NCECA should have had later hours for the commercial
exhibitors, not the schools, necessarily as those kids needed more
eyeball time at the events, but the dealers booths would have
benefited and so would all of us who hated to take more time away
from the daytime events.If they even stayed on until 8 pm it would
have been a huge help as I never got to talk to the big equipment
dealers since looking at the tools and books kept me so busy
when I took time to return ,after all day there Wednesday.<<
I don't think it's fair to ask the vendors to stay later. They've
already done a lot of work to get their booths ready, move all that
stuff to the conference hall and set it up.
They are also pretty much stuck to the booth all day as well.
Evenings are often spent with their own suppliers strengthening those
relationships.
Then, when it's all over, they have to pack it all up again, get it
back to it's point of origin and sort it all out again.
I imagine by the end of NCECA, they're ready for a vacation!
Plus, they're spending a LOT of money on booth fees, travel expenses,
salaries, etc and want to make the most of that investment.
On the participant's side, it's not possible to do/see everything.
It's just like life, one has to learn to prioritize.
If one is in the market for a new kiln or slab roller and wants to
take advantage of so many vendors in one location as well as some
great deals (and one ought to!) one needs to make talking to the
suppliers a priority. Even to the point of missing some presentations or shows.
One thing that has always helped me see/do more is to stay an extra
day. I usually fly home on the Sunday. So on Saturday, while everyone
is frantically trying to check out, I can go around and see the shows
that I missed.
Most of the shows outside the hotels and conference center are on for
a considerably long time after NCECA; CyberClay until April 14, Clay
National until the 24th of JUNE! (Hint, Hint)
Even if you come a day early, there is plenty to see, many of the
shows go up, at least a few days before the conference.
Then you have those things out of the way, freeing up time for other things.
Russel
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
Home of "The Potters Portal"
Over 3000 Pottery Related Links!
Updated frequently
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Hank Murrow on fri 30 mar 07
Dear Phil;
Amen, brother!! That is why I wore my overcoat with tools in inside
pockets at the Portland NCECA. How could one ever expect to sell
enough tools to amortize the $1650 fee for a card table, etc? no way
it could happen for me. Here's how it would be........I make $11 each
on my WireTools, so I would have to sell 150 of them just to cover
the cost of my tools. Think there are 150 buyers at an event mainly
attended by teachers, etc? Not likely........ i think/hope the market
for these tools is around 800 in the World, because that is how many
we have left from the first and only 'run'. when they are gone..... I
am off to Japan or France! But a $1650 table? NCECA is dreaming all
the way to the bank.
And that is the first and last rant you will hear me deliver on
Clayart. 99% of the time I am pretty mellow.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
On Mar 30, 2007, at 1:05 PM, pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
>
> After all, Commercial Exhibitors have come all that way, and
> typically at
> huge expense and logistical duress, or have done so only to
> confront a net
> financial loss for their troubles once the dust has settled, for the
> opportunity not only to show their Wares, but, also, and maybe more-
> so, to
> meet and talk with their Customers and impending Customers in-
> person, and to
> do so in the actual physical presence of those Wares.
>
> If 'nceca' cared about the Commercial Exhibitors as anything more than
> stupid fat Cows to be exploited perfunctorily out of the coersion
> for want
> of any other venues, there might be some more intelligent
> appreciations of
> them, or, for how their presence is a significant componant of the
> in-essense "Trade Show' which the event actually is, if one can see
> through
> the mystifications and gloss of the thing.
>
> It is a 'Trade Show' which enjoys a not-for-profit status, but is more
> greedy and makes far MORE "profit" than most respectable and honest
> Trade
> Shows do, or feel they need to do.
>
> The best Antiquarian Arms Shows, being "for profit", charge more or
> less
> $125.00 for an Exhibitor Station or 'booth' and occur in the finest
> Hotels
> or Convention facilitys.
>
> One is in the midst of perhapy eighty-five or a hundred million
> dollars
> worth of the finest Antique Arms and associated relics and acoutremon.
>
> They also 'jury' who may and who may not be an exhibitor, based on the
> quality of the person(s) and their prospective Wares and their
> fittingness
> to the event's reputation. They typically charge $5.00 or 7.00 for
> a Day
> Pass, or $20.00 for the full Show pass that has additional priveldges.
>
> They make lots of money for their promotors.
>
> 'nceca' charges $1650.00 for a little station or 'booth'...and has
> no care
> whatsoever what kind of crap anyone is trying to sell there, or
> whether one
> is just-another-retailer looking for hyped-up travel and business
> losses to
> write off for disingenuous paper-tax-games, or is an ingenuous
> producer...just so long as they get the money for letting the
> person or
> business sell it there. And of course they charge a great deal for
> one's
> addmittance or attendance, even punishing brutally with "late fees'
> anyone
> who does not caugh up the money 'early' enough.
>
> Sad, really...
>
> Ugly, even...
www.murrow.biz/hank
Vince Pitelka on sat 31 mar 07
Hank Murrow wrote:
> Amen, brother!! That is why I wore my overcoat with tools in inside
> pockets at the Portland NCECA. How could one ever expect to sell
> enough tools to amortize the $1650 fee for a card table, etc?
That sounds great Hank, but if you really want to get some attention at
NCECA, don't wear anything under that overcoat. That way you could flash
and sell your wares simultaneiously, and you'd be the talk of the
conference. You'd earn a place among the greats - Paul Soldner, Hank
Murrow. Of course in New Orleans, you might just bee seen as a left-over
Mardi Gras reveler.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Kathy McDonald on sat 31 mar 07
I had no idea that the trade booth spaces were so expensive.
$1650??
That's standard in big industry I know but lots of the
people who try to market
are "mom and pop" operations or are fledgling.
I know space etc costs $ but gimmie a break!
That rules out any of the really small ops that
might be making something really innovative and
leaves the field to the already established.
Is it the big convention center's that make the money or
NCECA?
Soon it will be like craft fairs....when some of the fairs
started over charging
for their 10X10's ...did a bad job of advertising, charged
an additional 50 bucks
for a hunk of carpet, and $$ for each electrical
outlet........
there was a bit of a revolt.
Crafters rented cheap space a block from the big sale and
recruited
others to "get the word" out.
It's nasty but some of these anti-sales around here have a
higher
attendance than the "Big One" (that's what they call the
sale at the
bigger convention centre here.)
I have always been a bit of a rebel ..but has Clayart ever
considered
anything like that?
I know there's always big hassles in organizing but it sure
seems like
a group of vendors could get some accessible space that
wouldn't cost
1650 for a 10 by 10.
Geez,,,guess I should go back to my real job eh? Too much
time on my hands makes me think too much.
Kathy!
Ever the social advocate!
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On Behalf Of
Hank Murrow
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 5:32 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: NCECA exhibit halls open late
Dear Phil;
Amen, brother!! That is why I wore my overcoat with tools in
inside
pockets at the Portland NCECA. How could one ever expect to
sell
enough tools to amortize the $1650 fee for a card table,
etc? no way
it could happen for me. Here's how it would be........I make
$11 each
on my WireTools, so I would have to sell 150 of them just to
cover
the cost of my tools. Think there are 150 buyers at an event
mainly
attended by teachers, etc? Not likely........ i think/hope
the market
for these tools is around 800 in the World, because that is
how many
we have left from the first and only 'run'. when they are
gone..... I
am off to Japan or France! But a $1650 table? NCECA is
dreaming all
the way to the bank.
And that is the first and last rant you will hear me deliver
on
Clayart. 99% of the time I am pretty mellow.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
On Mar 30, 2007, at 1:05 PM, pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote:
>
> After all, Commercial Exhibitors have come all that way,
and
> typically at
> huge expense and logistical duress, or have done so only
to
> confront a net
> financial loss for their troubles once the dust has
settled, for the
> opportunity not only to show their Wares, but, also, and
maybe more-
> so, to
> meet and talk with their Customers and impending Customers
in-
> person, and to
> do so in the actual physical presence of those Wares.
>
> If 'nceca' cared about the Commercial Exhibitors as
anything more than
> stupid fat Cows to be exploited perfunctorily out of the
coersion
> for want
> of any other venues, there might be some more intelligent
> appreciations of
> them, or, for how their presence is a significant
componant of the
> in-essense "Trade Show' which the event actually is, if
one can see
> through
> the mystifications and gloss of the thing.
>
> It is a 'Trade Show' which enjoys a not-for-profit status,
but is more
> greedy and makes far MORE "profit" than most respectable
and honest
> Trade
> Shows do, or feel they need to do.
>
> The best Antiquarian Arms Shows, being "for profit",
charge more or
> less
> $125.00 for an Exhibitor Station or 'booth' and occur in
the finest
> Hotels
> or Convention facilitys.
>
> One is in the midst of perhapy eighty-five or a hundred
million
> dollars
> worth of the finest Antique Arms and associated relics and
acoutremon.
>
> They also 'jury' who may and who may not be an exhibitor,
based on the
> quality of the person(s) and their prospective Wares and
their
> fittingness
> to the event's reputation. They typically charge $5.00 or
7.00 for
> a Day
> Pass, or $20.00 for the full Show pass that has additional
priveldges.
>
> They make lots of money for their promotors.
>
> 'nceca' charges $1650.00 for a little station or
'booth'...and has
> no care
> whatsoever what kind of crap anyone is trying to sell
there, or
> whether one
> is just-another-retailer looking for hyped-up travel and
business
> losses to
> write off for disingenuous paper-tax-games, or is an
ingenuous
> producer...just so long as they get the money for letting
the
> person or
> business sell it there. And of course they charge a great
deal for
> one's
> addmittance or attendance, even punishing brutally with
"late fees'
> anyone
> who does not caugh up the money 'early' enough.
>
> Sad, really...
>
> Ugly, even...
www.murrow.biz/hank
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claystevslat on sat 31 mar 07
Phil -- Now that's an issue that's completely
in the mind of the beholder. You use the
term "commercial exhibitor" to me and I think
of a commercial exhibitionist, and that leads
to fantasies that are best left unmentioned.
-- Steve S
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, pdp1@... wrote:
>
> Hi Bill, all...
>
>
>
> I find the term 'Vendor' to be a little vulgar or insulting.
>
> A 'Coke Machine' is 'a vendor'...or maybe some schmuck selling
tepid grey
> hot dogs from a van or push-cart is...
>
>
> The term 'Commercial Exhibitor' at least leaves some room for
something more
> or better to be innocently anticipated or even actually present.
>
Hank Murrow on sun 1 apr 07
On Mar 31, 2007, at 8:29 PM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Hank Murrow wrote:
>> Amen, brother!! That is why I wore my overcoat with tools in inside
>> pockets at the Portland NCECA. How could one ever expect to sell
>> enough tools to amortize the $1650 fee for a card table, etc?
>
> That sounds great Hank, but if you really want to get some
> attention at
> NCECA, don't wear anything under that overcoat. That way you could
> flash
> and sell your wares simultaneiously, and you'd be the talk of the
> conference. You'd earn a place among the greats - Paul Soldner, Hank
> Murrow. Of course in New Orleans, you might just bee seen as a
> left-over
> Mardi Gras reveler.
Dear Vince;
Fact is, folks at that NCECA loved the gig, but didn't buy the tools.
By the end of the conference, lots of people had asked me to 'flash'
them, but the tools remained largely in those inside pockets.
Guess I will keep struggling along with mail order......... no
problems with the police, not likely to catch a cold, and I still
have my 'dignity', for what it's worth.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Gail Dapogny on mon 9 apr 07
Geez, Joyce, that was great!! Keep it up.
Gail in Ann Arbor
>>> From: Joyce Lee
>>> Subject: Fwd: NCECA Exhibit Halls Open Late
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The one and only reason that I attended my first NCECAs was to
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> advantage of the opportunity for #1 Support Person to examine
>>>>>> in person
>>>>>> the equipment we were hoping to purchase..... to get the best
>>>>>> buy possible....
>>>>>> and to talk to the manufacturers and exhibitors directly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We were able to
>>>>>> compare brands on the spot with, oddly enough it seemed to us, a
>>>>>> competitor
>>>>>> who happened to have his booth adjacent to the one we were
>>>>>> visiting chiming
>>>>>> in to tell us how his merchandise was preferable to our targeted
>>>>>> booth. The
>>>>>> two held their discussion to which we were privy and #1 could
>>>>>> speak with
>>>>>> both while having hands on experience himself. Several times
>>>>>> other potters
>>>>>> joined us with their own questions, which also assisted us in
>>>>>> making our choices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> These circumstances were well worth the extra registration
>>>>>> dollars it took to
>>>>>> allow #1 (a non-potter) and I (one step above his non-potter
>>>>>> status) to make
>>>>>> Informed Decisions that please me to this day, 8 years later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many, many other potters have said that the exhibit halls were
>>>>>> the main reasons
>>>>>> they went to NCECA ,and definitely major in their willingness to
>>>>>> pay the registration
>>>>>> fees. This, of course, for many of us was prior to the Clayart
>>>>>> Room and the mayor
>>>>>> being available to add to our strong, and important, sense of
>>>>>> community.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So WHY are the NCECA leaders continuing to treat the exhibitors
>>>>>> as if their
>>>>>> (the exhibitors) support is only financially helpful to the
>>>>>> commercial exhibitors,
>>>>>> themselves???? AND
>>>>>> that NCECA is being big-hearted in even permitting them to be on
>>>>>> the premises
>>>>>> for whatever the leadership chooses to charge? Actually,
>>>>>> NCECA would do
>>>>>> well to charge the exhibitors a token fee, enough perhaps to pay
>>>>>> for the hall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Frankly, and I certainly may be in error here, but I believe
>>>>>> it's because the
>>>>>> NCECA leadership changes for most every NCECA, and that too
>>>>>> many of
>>>>>> those chosen accept in order to gain points for tenure or
>>>>>> advancement at
>>>>>> their educational institutions. When I bother to attend opening
>>>>>> and closing
>>>>>> meetings which are usually boring and absolutely rampant with
>>>>>> twisted
>>>>>> backs from the pats they bestow on themselves
>>>>>> or at least they were until about 3 years ago when I found
>>>>>> that avoiding them made me feel much better about the whole
>>>>>> conference....
>>>>>> a different rant, forgive me......... forget it, you must have
>>>>>> gotten my point
>>>>>> by now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I must add that many of our clayarters ARE members of art
>>>>>> departments
>>>>>> at numerous educational institutions. I know that without
>>>>>> them we as a
>>>>>> List would be up Dirty Creek. I use their knowledge, enjoy
>>>>>> their company,
>>>>>> and only wish that their pathetic counterparts who fit the
>>>>>> images I've
>>>>>> described would take lessons from them, our claybud professors
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> teachers, and accept that the day is here when noses loftier
>>>>>> than they deserve
>>>>>> to be are only slightly amusing to the rest of us. If ever
>>>>>> the hackneyed
>>>>>> expression, "Get over yourselves" fit a specific situation, as
>>>>>> if tailored
>>>>>> for it, the NCECA decision makers fill the bill.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, somebody did something right this last time for
>>>>>> Lousiville by
>>>>>> adding so many intelligent, confident, humorous, knowledgeable,
>>>>>> generous clayarters to the NCECA rosters.... the names I saw are
>>>>>> truly Stars .... and have EARNED the respect and affection they
>>>>>> receive. Affection? Got it? Jeez, whatta concept..........
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joyce
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