WJ Seidl on sun 1 apr 07
I've been reading and taking part in the thread about plasticity and green
packing density with great interest since its inception. I saw Matt Katz
and Bill Carty's presentation at NCECA; and after reading the posts and
threads have come to the conclusion that they're on to something with their
research and comments about slurry mixing and homogeneity. The side debate
on aging affecting plasticity is a different horse entirely. Don't be
confused.
As Mel pointed out in a post this morning, there are times we have to set
aside out preconceptions and go with "new" ideas that are proven. Their
work, near as I can tell (and I'm no scholar, trust me) is building on a
tradition long observed in our craft...that wet mixing is better. They have
shown proof as to why, and explained it as completely as I need (anyway) to
convince me. IMHO, YMMV, ok?
So here I sit with two pugmills. Ok, they will still come in quite handy.
But it's time to ramp it up a notch or two, and find myself a filter press,
or find a way to make one.
Being the lazy sort I am , I have decided to let a machine do the work.
Being limited in space (aren't we all) I decided to try to find a _small_
filter press. After all, I'm not in production. I don't need tons of clay
per week. I don't sell clay, have no intention of it. (No offense to you
clay producers out there, it's just not my thing.)
So to the Net I went.
Here is a link to a company (no connection, just passing info along here
folks) that sells used equipment. They have a number of used SMALL filter
presses that will do the trick. They even have a "manual" one. Yeah,
opening and closing it manually is a pain, but it sure beats waiting weeks
for clay. No idea what the prices are. These are all used machines, BTW.
I wouldn't even _want_ to know what a new one sells for...yikes!
You might want to take a peek: www.aaronequipment.com
Use their search engine and plug in "filter press" or "used filter press".
Ah, the Net...window shopping as an art form .
Best,
Wayne Seidl
liz gowen on sun 1 apr 07
Wayne I think one should be aware of what these filter presses were used =
for
in the 1st place. I had a similar idea and after talking to a friend, =
whose
husband has a couple he uses in his business as a septic pumper to =
separate
the solids from the effluent, I thought I would pass.They were also =
quite
expensive. Perhaps you could find ones that had a more noble history.
Liz Gowen
Use their search engine and plug in "filter press" or "used filter =
press".
Ah, the Net...window shopping as an art form .
Best,
Wayne Seidl
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WJ Seidl on sun 1 apr 07
Liz:
Your post made me smile. "Noble" is in the eye of the beholder.
Having dealt with sewage and other forms of "human effluent" for the past 35
years, it did not occur to me that others might be put off by having to deep
clean a used machine prior to using it for one's own purpose. I do not mind
getting my hands dirty. To most of my friends, that idea is (of course)
abhorrent.
BTW, I'm also a big fan of the show "Dirty Jobs". What some people do on a
daily basis to earn a living, and keep our society running. Someone must. I
empathize completely. Your friend's husband is doing noble work.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of liz gowen
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 12:24 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Tool junkie clay reclaimers, this one is for you.
Wayne I think one should be aware of what these filter presses were used for
in the 1st place. I had a similar idea and after talking to a friend, whose
husband has a couple he uses in his business as a septic pumper to separate
the solids from the effluent, I thought I would pass.They were also quite
expensive. Perhaps you could find ones that had a more noble history.
Liz Gowen
Use their search engine and plug in "filter press" or "used filter press".
Ah, the Net...window shopping as an art form .
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Matthew Katz on sun 1 apr 07
Ha,
it is true watch out for what they were used for, but for the most part they
were not used for such...ummm unsanitary purposed. Most of the used filter
presses out there are used for purpose that we can't even conceive of. The
main industry that I see them coming from is food, where they are used to
the opposite effect that we look for. I saw one at our local Maple Sugar
Shack, where they were using it to remove particulate material from the sap,
so the resulting cakes were the waste products. I have also seen them used
in beer making and many other applications.
Wayne is right though. Used equipment suppliers can be a gold mine. Even out
here in the relative desolation of Alfred, we have a used equipment supplier
in our county that had three used filter presses last time I checked.
Matt
On 4/1/07, liz gowen wrote:
>
> Wayne I think one should be aware of what these filter presses were used
> for
> in the 1st place. I had a similar idea and after talking to a friend,
> whose
> husband has a couple he uses in his business as a septic pumper to
> separate
> the solids from the effluent, I thought I would pass.They were also quite
> expensive. Perhaps you could find ones that had a more noble history.
> Liz Gowen
>
>
>
>
> Use their search engine and plug in "filter press" or "used filter press".
>
> Ah, the Net...window shopping as an art form .
> Best,
> Wayne Seidl
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
--
Matthew Katz
Alfred, NY
Michael Wendt on sun 1 apr 07
Wayne,
I am currently developing a small
clay centrifuge.
The idea I have is to remove the
water by using the power of
a centrifuge settling the solids
to the bottom of the container
as it spins at high speed.
If properly balanced, the device
needs very little power to spin
at 1800 rpm and at this speed,
a 24" diameter device sees 188
feet per second at the rim.
The formula A= v^2/r
yields over 1000 times the normal
force of gravity which is 32 ft/sec^2
See below for the full math workup.
I'll build a small scale model to test it
see how long it takes to settle the
solids at this speed.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
USA
208-746-3724
http://www.wendtpottery.com
wendtpot@lewiston.com
Math:
The diameter = 2'
The radius = 1'
the perimeter traveled is
pi x Dia = 3.14 x 2' = 6.28 ft
at 1800 rpm/60s/min= 30 rps
30 rps x 6.28'= 188.4 ft/sec
since A= v^2/r
A= (188.4 ft/ sec x 188.4 ft/sec)
divided by 1 ft =35494 ft/sec^2
since g= 32ft/sec^2
35494/32 is the ratio of this force
to g which = 1109 x g
WOW!
that should settle the clay
out of the water very fast.
Next, I am working on an
automated unloader for
commercial production.
Lori Doty on sun 1 apr 07
I agree Wayne, and the best part is I can drool over all these items
without too many people staring at me. Here are a couple other
companies that sells used clay equipment. Most of it is industrial
sized but they do have some consumer sized items as well.
http://www.aadvancedmach.com/pugmills.html this company is in Michigan
and
http://www.pacificceramic.com/ this company is in California
Hoping this helps others out there.
Lori Doty
Nurse/Potter
Rolla, MO
> Ah, the Net...window shopping as an art form .
> Best,
> Wayne Seidl
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
WJ Seidl on sun 1 apr 07
Michael:
I believe you're thinking more along the lines of a cyclonic extraction
filter, utilizing a slightly conical drum, where solids settle to the bottom
while the unit spins the liquids out. Those lend themselves to conveyors
underneath, and trap door systems at end-of-cycle to facilitate solids
removal. (I've been looking at those too.)
But....Watching the washing machine spin one day, I had a similar idea.
If something at 1800 rpm can wring water out of clothes (ours has a 23 inch
tub diameter), it can certainly do it for clay.
Roughly 1000 times the force of gravity...cool! That would work.
Perhaps a "bag" liner for the tub. It might work as manufactured, with
regard to the bearings and transmission setup. I was thinking of a removable
bag that could be (manually) pulled from the unit when it finished and
inverted to empty. The agitator would have to go, or maybe just beef up the
top with a cross-member to stabilize it. One would be limited to about 25
pounds of clay / 200 pounds of slurry per batch, water being 8.6 pounds per
gallon, that's no more than about 20 gallons per batch (leaving a little
wiggle room for the weight of the clay.) A new batch every hour or so.
Thinking a little further outside the box, why not a set of four or six pant
legs, filled with slurry and velcroed closed, placed vertically along the
sides of a washer tub ,and put through a long spin cycle.
"Honey, is the warranty on the washing machine expired yet?" SMACK!
The water expelled could be collected as a terra sig material with a little
more settling.
Still, a great idea well worth testing. And I could put it next to my ball
mill dryer setup, and no one would be the wiser . I might not need a
filter press after all. Used washers are cheap! So what if it only lasts a
year or two?
That wouldn't do for commercial production though. One would have to hire
help to continually load and unload the machines.
Great idea Michael!
Best,
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Michael Wendt
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:24 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Tool junkie clay reclaimers, this one is for you.
Wayne,
I am currently developing a small
clay centrifuge.
The idea I have is to remove the
water by using the power of
a centrifuge settling the solids
to the bottom of the container
as it spins at high speed.
If properly balanced, the device
needs very little power to spin
at 1800 rpm and at this speed,
a 24" diameter device sees 188
feet per second at the rim.
The formula A= v^2/r
yields over 1000 times the normal
force of gravity which is 32 ft/sec^2
See below for the full math workup.
I'll build a small scale model to test it
see how long it takes to settle the
solids at this speed.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
USA
208-746-3724
http://www.wendtpottery.com
wendtpot@lewiston.com
Math:
The diameter = 2'
The radius = 1'
the perimeter traveled is
pi x Dia = 3.14 x 2' = 6.28 ft
at 1800 rpm/60s/min= 30 rps
30 rps x 6.28'= 188.4 ft/sec
since A= v^2/r
A= (188.4 ft/ sec x 188.4 ft/sec)
divided by 1 ft =35494 ft/sec^2
since g= 32ft/sec^2
35494/32 is the ratio of this force
to g which = 1109 x g
WOW!
that should settle the clay
out of the water very fast.
Next, I am working on an
automated unloader for
commercial production.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Thomas Malone on tue 3 apr 07
Hello Michael. Interesting. Could you explain how your unit differs to
other centrifuges used for removing water from clay slurries, say those
made by Alfalaval?
Michael Wendt on tue 3 apr 07
Thomas,
Actually,
I have never seen their
design, can you give a
web site link?
Mine is meant to spin
batches only, at high
speed until all the clay has
settled.
Then, I will stop it and
drain the water and
use an unloader device
to quickly remove the cake
and then resume operation.
If the cycle time is fast
enough, it might be a
candidate for small
studio reclamation because
of the relatively small cost,
ease of construction
by the potter if they
have welding skills and
the tools to do it.
A small footprint when
compared to filterpresses
and especially the time honored
drying bats or other drying
schemes is another plus.
One further note:
since it removes the water rather
than waiting for it to evaporate,
solubles are also removed
which might help with the
tendency of some alkalis
to go into solution after a
while and partially deflocculate
throwing clays making them
more difficult to work with.
Regards
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave
Lewiston, ID 83501
USA
208-746-3724
http://www.wendtpottery.com
wendtpot@lewiston.com
Thomas Malone on tue 3 apr 07
Hello Michael. Have a look at www.alfalaval.com. It s a big site, but there
again it s a big company with a big range of products.
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