William & Susan Schran User on wed 18 apr 07
On 4/18/07 12:39 PM, "Virginia Dawnswir"
wrote:
> A potter friend wrote regarding the element holders: When the
> elements were old and needed replacing they had expanded and were incredibly
> difficult to remove, often breaking pieces in the process. However, in
> theory, they sound great and perhaps, that is no longer and issue. Do
> others with L&L kilns have the same problems? I was hoping to get feedback
> from others using these kilns.
We have currently 4 L&L kilns at school, used to have 6, but with a newer
gas kiln, we had to downsize number of electrics.
Yes, elements will grow in size and can sometimes be a bit more difficult to
remove, but I have never broken an element holder in more than 30 years of
replacing elements. Occasionally I'll need to use needle nose pliers to
remove elements in small pieces.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Virginia Dawnswir on wed 18 apr 07
I am in charge of researching kiln info in order to buy a new kiln for the
Parks and Recreation program I teach in. We have had a paragon kiln for
8-10 years and have not been happy with it. (the problem might ultimately
be voltage drop in the building). The idea of element holders has always
looked great to me, less bulging elements and broken channels when replacing
the elements. A potter friend wrote regarding the element holders: When the
elements were old and needed replacing they had expanded and were incredibly
difficult to remove, often breaking pieces in the process. However, in
theory, they sound great and perhaps, that is no longer and issue. Do
others with L&L kilns have the same problems? I was hoping to get feedback
from others using these kilns.
So far I am planning on ordering the e23T, because it is the same size as
our old one, we have 208V single phase power at the center, I am planning on
getting 3" inch brick, we fire to cone 6-7, I will see if we can get a kiln
sitter along with the Dynatrol Controller - for added safety back up.
I just joined the list and am looking forward to seeing what is going on
here. I have been a potter for 35 years, 20 years teaching, and about 10
years professionally but am now semi retired.
Virginia Dawnswir
Being new to the list, I am not sure which address to use to post a message
to the board.
Cindy Bracker on thu 19 apr 07
First of all, if you have questionable power supply, you will want to
get that checked and verified (under load) before purchasing any new
kiln. If you have consistent low voltage, it might be possible for
you to get custom-wound elements to match your power. This will
result in better element life and more efficient firings.
On the L&L element holders. They are pretty awesome. The older L&L
kilns had smaller element holders than are being produced now. In
the older styles, elements that had been run to "dead" and beyond can
be difficult to remove. L&L improved on that a few years ago and
that is no longer an issue.
Dynatrol + kiln sitter: Personally, I like the idea of having a
standalone controller with a kiln sitter on the kiln as you have
mentioned. My feeling is that if something were to go wrong with the
computer (although that rarely happens), you could send the
controller in and would still be able to fire your kiln using the
sitter. You'll pay at least an extra $800 (roughly) for that and it
would be a custom job, so you'll also have to wait a little longer.
We did that for a university about 5 years ago, we had to order it as
a kiln sitter kiln, separate Dynatrol and several other components.
At that time, there was not a line item for that type of situation
(except on the Da Vinci series). They may have changed that since
then. If not, feel free to contact me off list. I would be happy to
give you the list of components you would need.
Good Luck!
Cindy
Cindy Bracker Sturm
Bracker's Good Earth Clays, Inc.
888-822-1982
http://www.brackers.com
On Apr 19, 2007, at 8:15 AM, clayart@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> Questions re L&L kilns model e23TPosted by: "Virginia Dawnswir"
> Virginia.Dawnswir@ANARCHYCREEK.COMWed Apr 18, 2007 3:43 pm (PST)
> I am in charge of researching kiln info in order to buy a new kiln
> for the
> Parks and Recreation program I teach in. We have had a paragon kiln
> for
> 8-10 years and have not been happy with it. (the problem might
> ultimately
> be voltage drop in the building). The idea of element holders has
> always
> looked great to me, less bulging elements and broken channels when
> replacing
> the elements. A potter friend wrote regarding the element holders:
> When the
> elements were old and needed replacing they had expanded and were
> incredibly
> difficult to remove, often breaking pieces in the process. However, in
> theory, they sound great and perhaps, that is no longer and issue. Do
> others with L&L kilns have the same problems? I was hoping to get
> feedback
> from others using these kilns.
>
> So far I am planning on ordering the e23T, because it is the same
> size as
> our old one, we have 208V single phase power at the center, I am
> planning on
> getting 3" inch brick, we fire to cone 6-7, I will see if we can
> get a kiln
> sitter along with the Dynatrol Controller - for added safety back up.
>
> I just joined the list and am looking forward to seeing what is
> going on
> here. I have been a potter for 35 years, 20 years teaching, and
> about 10
> years professionally but am now semi retired.
>
> Virginia Dawnswir
>
> Being new to the list, I am not sure which address to use to post a
> message
> to the board.
Patty Kaliher on thu 19 apr 07
I have an L&L kiln I love. Purchased in 2005. The manual has instructions
for adding a segment to the glaze program that fires down or slow cools the
glazes for great results. Very similar to what is recommended in the book
"Mastering Cone 6 Glazes". With the venting from the bottom with fan
mounted at the outlet end of the duct, I've had even firing temps throughout
the kiln. I fire to cone 6 and did buy the heavy duty bricks etc.
I called L&L and they recommended a dealer in my area. They were not the
closest but obviously L&L thought they were the best. For $100 extra they
put the kiln and venting together and in place.
I have not yet had to replace elements. I did ask L&L about this once and
they had an answer which I have since forgotten. I'm sure they answer this
on their website.
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Virginia
Dawnswir
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 12:39 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Questions re L&L kilns model e23T
I am in charge of researching kiln info in order to buy a new kiln for the
Parks and Recreation program I teach in. We have had a paragon kiln for
8-10 years and have not been happy with it. (the problem might ultimately
be voltage drop in the building). The idea of element holders has always
looked great to me, less bulging elements and broken channels when replacing
the elements. A potter friend wrote regarding the element holders: When the
elements were old and needed replacing they had expanded and were incredibly
difficult to remove, often breaking pieces in the process. However, in
theory, they sound great and perhaps, that is no longer and issue. Do
others with L&L kilns have the same problems? I was hoping to get feedback
from others using these kilns.
So far I am planning on ordering the e23T, because it is the same size as
our old one, we have 208V single phase power at the center, I am planning on
getting 3" inch brick, we fire to cone 6-7, I will see if we can get a kiln
sitter along with the Dynatrol Controller - for added safety back up.
I just joined the list and am looking forward to seeing what is going on
here. I have been a potter for 35 years, 20 years teaching, and about 10
years professionally but am now semi retired.
Virginia Dawnswir
Being new to the list, I am not sure which address to use to post a message
to the board.
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Vince Pitelka on thu 19 apr 07
The answer to your question certainly depends on your needs. It's a shame
that you had a bad experience with a Paragon kiln. Did you deal with
Paragon directly? They make great kilns and have excellent customer
service. When you see that Paragon ad in CM with the testimonial by
Jonathan Kaplan, you have to take it seriously, because Jonathan definitely
can't be bought. You'd be hard-pressed to find a more knowledgeable person
when it comes to technical information in the world of studio ceramics.
That said, for institutional applications I prefer the L&L simply because of
the element holders. That eliminates all of the element headaches I have
had with other brands in the past. We have three L&L e23 EasyFire
toploaders, plus a big new EasyFire frontloader. We have three-phase
power, and that's what runs the big frontloader, but we run the toploaders
on single-phase 208V. We order the kilns and replacement elements
specifically for 208V. I am very pleased with all of our L&L kilns.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
claystevslat on thu 19 apr 07
Virginia --
I've never owned one, but I understand that Paragon makes a
good kiln. If there was a voltage drop problem, it will
probably affect an L&L to exactly the same extent that it
will affect a Paragon. That's not to say that there aren't
some kilns made by any manufacturer that don't perform
entirely up to spec.
The first thing I'd do in your situation would be to have
someone with a voltmeter check the voltage under load. This
is one of those things that's safe if you know what you're
doing, so have a knowledgable person do it.
If the problem is power, you'll have to get the power fixed
or do a work-around. There actually are some ways to work
around power issues if your power isn't quite up to snuff;
but you'll need a non-standard set of elements to match up
with the power you have. I'd suspect Paragon, L&L, Skutt,
or any other reputable manufacturer could help you with that.
Personally I do have an L&L, and in my experience the element
guides work very well. Old elements will become brittle
and hard to remove regardless of the kiln they're in; if they're
in a groove cut directly in the firebrick, the firebrick will
take quite a hit when you remove them. If they're in guides,
the guide will protect the brick.
-- Steve Slatin
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Virginia Dawnswir
wrote:
>
> I am in charge of researching kiln info in order to buy a new kiln
for the
> Parks and Recreation program I teach in. We have had a paragon
kiln for
> 8-10 years and have not been happy with it. (the problem might
ultimately
> be voltage drop in the building). The idea of element holders has
always
> looked great to me, less bulging elements and broken channels when
replacing
> the elements. A potter friend wrote regarding the element
holders: When the
> elements were old and needed replacing they had expanded and were
incredibly
> difficult to remove, often breaking pieces in the process.
However, in
> theory, they sound great and perhaps, that is no longer and
issue. Do
> others with L&L kilns have the same problems? I was hoping to get
feedback
> from others using these kilns.
>
>
>
> So far I am planning on ordering the e23T, because it is the same
size as
> our old one, we have 208V single phase power at the center, I am
planning on
> getting 3" inch brick, we fire to cone 6-7, I will see if we can
get a kiln
> sitter along with the Dynatrol Controller - for added safety back
up.
>
>
>
> I just joined the list and am looking forward to seeing what is
going on
> here. I have been a potter for 35 years, 20 years teaching, and
about 10
> years professionally but am now semi retired.
>
> Virginia Dawnswir
William & Susan Schran User on thu 19 apr 07
On 4/19/07 10:07 AM, "Patty Kaliher" wrote:
> I have not yet had to replace elements. I did ask L&L about this once and
> they had an answer which I have since forgotten. I'm sure they answer this
> on their website.
Here's the L&L element troubleshooting manual, a PDF link on their web site:
http://www.hotkilns.com/troubleshoot-element.pdf
They suggestion is heating the element by turning on the kiln (I wouldn't
recommend this if you have the control box open and are not experienced
working with electrical devices) or heating the element with a torch to
soften it.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Doug Jones on thu 19 apr 07
My son, Chris Jones at Jones Pottery (the one in Florida) is a certified L&L
Distributor and service tech. He sells them, installs them and if and when
they finally have a problem .he repairs them. You can contact him thru his
website www.jonespottery.net He is a member
of Clay Art and usually reads these posts, but has been busy lately so give
him a shout about anything L&L He also works on other brands of kilns.
Hope this helps
Doug Jones
Amelia Island Pottery
www.ameliaislandpottery.com
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