David Hendley on tue 1 may 07
Hi, here's an essay I wrote and had published in
Ceramics Monthly in 1999. It earned me criticism and
counter-arguments from slip-casting potters, but I
stand by it:
What exactly does it mean to call a piece of pottery
handmade? At first glance, it might seem obvious;
it's either handmade or it isn't. Well, in taking a look
around craft shows and talking to potters, I've found
that the definition of "handmade" mostly depends
on who is doing the talking. Of course any potter
you talk to at a craft show considers their work
handmade; what they consider not handmade is
any work that uses more advanced or automated
technologies than they use.
This has probably gone on for millennia. The potters
in ancient Egypt were probably pretty hacked off
when some guy built the first potter's wheel and
started turning out pots ten times faster than the
handbuilders. They probably considered these pots
"machine made" and less valuable than their truly
handmade pots. Thousands of years later, the
wheel-throwing potters were probably none too
happy when some mechanical wizard figured out a
way to make a motor turn his wheel, and was able
to increase production while doing less work. "Not
really handmade," they probably argued, because
a machine was taking over what the potter used to
do. Of course, it wasn't long before someone else
added an arm and a mold head to the motor-driven
wheel, and the jiggering wheel came into being. The
throwers argued, I'm sure, that their work was far
superior because it took more skill to make each
piece without a jigger mold and it was thus
"authentically handmade".
Recently a potter friend came by to visit and showed
me one of his mugs. It had been slip-cast in a mold.
The mold was made from a wheel-thrown cup with
a pulled handle, and, I'll tell you, that mug sure
looked hand-thrown with a pulled handle, right down
to the finger wipes that attached the lower end of
the handle. Since I had this "What is handmade?"
question on my mind, I asked him if he considers
his mugs handmade. Well, he does, and he started
telling me about all the time and effort required to
cast the mug, clean up the mold lines, glaze and
decorate it, and fire and finish it.
So, are there any absolutes? Is there a line that
can't be crossed if a piece is still to be called "handmade"?
Does process matter? I say "yes" to all these questions.
First, let me make it perfectly clear that "handmade"
does not mean "good" and "not handmade" does not
mean "bad". We've all seen examples of horrendous
handmade pottery, like those lop-sided boat anchors
that somehow made it past the critique in Ceramics 101.
Likewise, there are many examples of elegantly
designed and beautifully crafted factory-made pottery.
In fact, many artistic and talented people working in
ceramics are not even concerned with the process of
pottery making. To them, the ceramic form is just a
"canvas" for painting.
Unlike most art and craft media, the potter's hands are
the primary tools used to make pottery. The
wood-worker needs a saw and a drill, the stone sculptor
needs a hammer and a chisel, and the metalworker
needs a torch and a file to shape his work. The potter
does his shaping with his hands, and the clay records
everything the hands do. This suggests a logical
standard for judging whether or not a pot is
"handmade"; namely, did a hand shape it? Once any
kind of mold or template determines the final shape
of the piece, it's not "hand" made, or "handmade" in
the literal sense.
There are other criteria that are useful for judging a
piece of pottery as handmade or not. One is to question
how much skill, or training, was required to make the
piece. Workers in ceramics factories can be trained in
a few days to pour molds or press pottery. On the
other hand, learning to skillfully manipulate plastic
clay into desired shapes takes years of practice. Yes,
I know that great skill and experience was required
to make that mold. Well, the mold itself is handmade.
Another useful question is, "What would be involved
if the design of the piece were changed slightly, say
made a half inch wider?" For mass produced pottery
this would require a complete retooling, while for a
potter shaping plastic clay by hand it would simply
mean that she would start with a little more clay and
remember to make the form a little wider. It is this
quick and easy evolution of form that allows an
accomplished potter to grow and to breathe life into
her continuously refined work.
Like so many terms used in business and government,
and indicative of the times, the word "handmade", as
applied to pottery, has been ever more broadly and
inclusively used. This makes the word meaningless at
best, and downright misleading at worst. I say it's time
buck the trend and narrowly define the word.
"Handmade" means shaped with the hands, period.
Jiggered work is not handmade, pressed work is not
handmade, and slip cast work is not handmade, no
matter how well designed and well made. The
exception would be in the case where pressed or cast
pieces are twisted, cut apart, or re-assembled, in
which case they are really being used as building
components.
So, what about that slip-cast platter that has been so
elegantly and meticulously decorated with hours of
hand labor? It's certainly not mass produced or the
product of a factory assembly line. Well, it can most
definitely be labeled as "limited production",
"individually hand-finished", or "hand painted", but,
sorry, it's still not "handmade".
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david@farmpots.com
www.farmpots.com
Kim Overall on tue 1 may 07
very well stated David
now I'm ready and armed with verbal ammunition at the next handmade debate
go-round and will gladly credit my references.
Kim Overall
Houston, TX
Vince Pitelka on wed 2 may 07
David Hendley said:
"Once any kind of mold or template determines the final shape
of the piece, it's not "hand made" or "handmade", in the literal sense".
And Terrance Lazaroff replied:
"According to this statement I would not be able to call my mugs, that are
thrown on the wheel and handled with extruded clay, as "hand made". I
would not be able categorize my thrown planters with applied press molded
feet as "hand made" If you say that these examples are an exception then
how would you categorize a molded bowl that has a thrown foot, or a
extruded series of pieces that are assemble by hand into a larger work."
Terrance -
I am always a little baffled when people misinterpret a post so
unnecessarily, and then resort to exaggeration and fantasy in support of
their premise. David Hendley never said or even implied what you state
above. If you are hand-throwing a piece, then OF COURSE it is handmade,
even if you add a press-molded handle.
You said:
"Let us look closer at the wheel. Is it not a template in itself? One of
the definitions of a template states that it is something that acts as a
guide to form a piece that is being made. The key words here are form and
guide. Objects made on the wheel are guided by the action of the wheel."
No Terrance, the wheel is not a template or guide, by any stretch of the
imagination. All it does is provide the rotary movement. Your hands do all
the shaping. The wheel does not "guide" at all, and I cannot see any logic
in your premise. Does this really even need to be clarified? I'm sorry,
but your reasoning makes no sense at all.
You wrote:
"According to David's definition, Extruded pieces assembled by hand to make
a larger work is not, "hand made". A square hand build bottle is created
by rolling a clay slab using a rolling pin using the flat surface of a
table, as a guide, to ensure a flat sided clay slab, cannot be called "hand
made".
Okay Terrance, I give up, now you have entered the realm of the completely
ridiculous. What gives here? You are not making any sense. A piece that
is assembled from a variety of manipulated, extruded parts is clearly
handmade. This is not rocket science. It is very easy to discern a piece
that is handmade and one that is not. I cannot say it any other way - your
examples are absurd.
You wrote:
"I am sure we can see that there are many
examples of pottery that would be disqualified under David's definition."
Yes, I am sure we can. But unfortunately, NONE of the examples you give
qualify. They are all clearly handmade, for obvious reasons. Why would you
write this post?
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Kathy Forer on wed 2 may 07
David Hendley asks "What is handmade?":
> Hi, here's an essay I wrote and had published in
> Ceramics Monthly in 1999. It earned me criticism and
> counter-arguments from slip-casting potters, but I
> stand by it:
>
> What exactly does it mean to call a piece of pottery
> handmade? At first glance, it might seem obvious;
> it's either handmade or it isn't.
[...]
> So, what about that slip-cast platter that has been so
> elegantly and meticulously decorated with hours of
> hand labor? It's certainly not mass produced or the
> product of a factory assembly line. Well, it can most
> definitely be labeled as "limited production",
> "individually hand-finished", or "hand painted", but,
> sorry, it's still not "handmade".
"Handmade" is far more understandable and friendly, but perhaps
"direct-made" might be a more accessible way to consider a concept
that seems to differentiate between slip-cast works and wheel or hand
formed work.
> Unlike most art and craft media, the potter's hands are
> the primary tools used to make pottery. The
> wood-worker needs a saw and a drill, the stone sculptor
> needs a hammer and a chisel, and the metalworker
> needs a torch and a file to shape his work. The potter
> does his shaping with his hands, and the clay records
> everything the hands do.
I would argue that many tools are extensions of the hand, therefore
the imprint of the hand alone isn't the sole determinant whether a
piece has been made by the potter directly. How many potters use
tools to trim and shape? Tools to center and form, mix, and machines
to fire. Those ancillary processes shouldn't detract from the
centrality of touch and the direct interaction of potter with pot.
It may be, as you remark, that there is a line where machines and
complex processes make up perhaps more than 50% of a process that the
work is no longer considered to be made directly, but I would say the
nature of the process itself is more essential than whether hands are
involved or not.
> This suggests a logical
> standard for judging whether or not a pot is
> "handmade"; namely, did a hand shape it? Once any
> kind of mold or template determines the final shape
> of the piece, it's not "hand" made, or "handmade" in
> the literal sense.
And what if there were a wheel that could be controlled by brain-
waves, by someone with ALS or MS? While it's pointless to get too
categorical, it's possible that such a machine might be direct and
inductive, using thought to modify form directly, or it might be
indirect and deductive, selecting from patterns and methods of design.
Early in the twentieth century, sculptors -- influenced from abroad
by African and Asian art and frustrated by the distancing of
virtually hieratic processes involving pointing machines or endless
models, molds and assistants -- started reviving older way of working
with materials. And direct carving was born.
A blurb from the website
states it quite clearly:
Direct stone sculpture involves a relationship
between the sculptor and the stone. No calculations
or previous models are used. The sculptor creates a
dialogue with the stone while carving. The result is
the unveiling of the artist's inner image by searching
for hidden contents in the stone.
Wikipedia defines Direct Carving:
Direct carving is a 20th century term used to describe a
less planned approach to carving in which the sculptor
carves the finished sculpture without using intermediate
models or maquettes. The sculptor either works from
memory or works whilst observing the subject. In some
respects it can be seen as a return to the direct
approach used in primitive art.
> Of course any potter
> you talk to at a craft show considers their work
> handmade; what they consider not handmade is
> any work that uses more advanced or automated
> technologies than they use.
Is there a direct approach to pottery that is the equivalent of
direct carving? And has that colored the "handmade" debate, allowing
one potter to accept nothing beyond hands and river-dug clay pit-
fired, another to use a wheel and trimming tools and another to
accept trimming multiple from molds. Or forms made directly from CAD
programs.
Kathy Forer
-- needing to use ten words today where two might better suffice, and
not quite getting those ten in order. must be too much time on my hands
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 2 may 07
I would first like to complement David on a very well written essay and I
must say that he almost convinced me that there is only one definition
for =93hand made=94. Nevertheless, I paused to think about it and I found t=
hat
I had some questions that the essay could not answer. I know that by
raising these questions I might raise the hackles on the neck of some of
the clay art people. But the subject must be debated properly. I must also
raise another caveat at this time and that is I have been away for a while
and I am a bit rusty in my debating techniques. So I will try to walk
softly.
David said, =93Once any kind of mold or template determines the final shape
of the piece, it=92s not =93hand made=94 or =93handmade=94, in the literal s=
ense=94.
According to this statement I would not be able to call my mugs, that are
thrown on the wheel and handled with extruded clay, as =93hand made=94. I
would not be able categorize my thrown planters with applied press molded
feet as =93hand made=94 If you say that these examples are an exception then=
how would you categorize a molded bowl that has a thrown foot, or a
extruded series of pieces that are assemble by hand into a larger work.
Let us look closer at the wheel. Is it not a template in itself? One of
the definitions of a template states that it is something that acts as a
guide to form a piece that is being made. The key words here are form and
guide. Objects made on the wheel are guided by the action of the wheel.
They are in theory round or circular that is because that is what the wheel
does, it turns. Granted we use our hands a great deal during the throwing
process but we also use other tools that guide us in forming the piece.
For example, a throwing stick, a wooden rib, a metal rib, a needle tool
just to name the basic tools.
According to David=92s definition, Extruded pieces assembled by hand to make=
a larger work is not, =93hand made=94. A square hand build bottle is create=
d
by rolling a clay slab using a rolling pin using the flat surface of a
table, as a guide, to ensure a flat sided clay slab, cannot be called =93han=
d
made=94. Other examples that disqualify potters from saying, =93hand made=94=
might be a thrown plate with an impressed design using a plaster or bisque
clay stamp, a cast bowl that has been altered or having the foot trimmed by
hand using trimming tools. I am sure we can see that there are many
examples of pottery that would be disqualified under David=92s definition.
But not all is lost in David=92s essay. He used a few words such as
factories, workers, industrial, and assembly line that point to the real
question. Is the object formed using industrial methods or is it created
by the individual craftsperson? It is not a question of using a mold or a
template. It is about the milieu in which the work is created.
There is definition as to when a craft is a craft and an industry is and
industry. I believe one definition of craftsperson is someone whose hand
touches the object through out all stages or aspects of its creation. The
rule is broken all the time by various unscrupulous people who have and
army of workers making =93factory work=94 and calling it craft. It is not o=
nly
in the clay world but also in all other disciplines of the crafts.
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on wed 2 may 07
Dear David (Hendley),
I have kept away from the Adler bashing, as we seem to confuse hero =
worship and hero bashing with too many personal issues. Good luck to =
him, if his consience is clear (if it is), then leave it alone and =
concentrate on the real issue of hand made.
At last a precise and accurate wording of hand made. The description can =
be applied throughout the Art and Craft world. Well done and well said =
David, and thank you.
Happy Potting from Marek
Hand made Architectural Ceramics from No9 Studio UK www.no9uk.com
Fully Residential Pottery Courses and more at Mole Cottage =
www.moleys.com
"Tips and Time Travel from a Vernacular Potter" reviews on =
www.keramix.com
an irreverent point of view after 35 years in the game Marek =
Drzazga-Donaldson =20
Assemble a dragon finial at www.dragonfinials.co.uk
Free Works and Mole Cottage DVD's and Video content on all the sites
Drzazga Video Promotions at www.drzazga.co.uk Submit address for DVD
Thomas Malone on wed 2 may 07
Hello David.
You said that debate on the value of hand making has millennia> and argued, I'm sure, that their work was far superior because it took more
skill to make each piece without a jigger mold and it was
thus "authentically handmade".>
With valuing =91hand made=92 ware being a relatively modern concept I have a=
different interpretation. And although its equally as much speculation as
yours I would suggest:
Some potters would have welcomed such developments as it removed drudgery
from the day to day work, and allowed them to produce more ware & faster.
Some potters would have not welcomed them, fearing the consequences of the
faster production rates to them. Consider that The Luddites smashed the
newer looms not because of the loss of =91hand made=92 cloth but because of =
the
loss of their own jobs.
Lois Ruben Aronow on wed 2 may 07
Thank you, Terrance. I appreciated David's essay, which, IMHO, would have
been defined by your points. I think this is beautiful.
....Lo
***
Lois Aronow Porcelain
www.loisaronow.com
> But not all is lost in David's essay. He used a few words
> such as factories, workers, industrial, and assembly line
> that point to the real question. Is the object formed using
> industrial methods or is it created by the individual
> craftsperson? It is not a question of using a mold or a
> template. It is about the milieu in which the work is created.
>
> There is definition as to when a craft is a craft and an
> industry is and industry. I believe one definition of
> craftsperson is someone whose hand touches the object through
> out all stages or aspects of its creation. The rule is
> broken all the time by various unscrupulous people who have
> and army of workers making "factory work" and calling it
> craft. It is not only in the clay world but also in all
> other disciplines of the crafts.
>
Kathi LeSueur on wed 2 may 07
David Hendley wrote:
> Hi, here's an essay I wrote and had published in
> Ceramics Monthly in 1999. It earned me criticism and
> counter-arguments from slip-casting potters, but I
> stand by it:
>
> What exactly does it mean to call a piece of pottery
> handmade?>>>>
I'm not sure the public even cares anymore (did they ever?), at least in
the painting world. Some time ago a new word was coined for
reproductions of paintings --"Giclee". It was a superior reproduction
since there was no dot pattern. Shows went nuts because they could no
longer tell if that painting was an original or not. Now the painters
don't even try to hide that it's not an original. They label it "giclee"
or "enhanced giclee (giclee with some paint smeared on it). They price
the original at $15,000 and sell the "giclee" for $100. On e-bay it
isn't uncommon for a "giclee" to go for more than an original. Most
people don't know what "giclee" means.
This causes me to wonder what would happen if potters who use mechanical
methods came up with a similar fancy term to use rather than jigger,
slip-cast, RAM press. So, the original mug is $200 and the one made by
that new ("geeclay"?) technique is just $50. What a deal.
Would the public care?
Kathi
Elizabeth Priddy on wed 2 may 07
Maybe hand made needs to mean=0Amade by one set of hands start to finish=0A=
=0ADoes that mean that if my apprentice runs a =0Afew handle through my ext=
ruder me, it is disqualified.=0A=0AHow many hands does a handmade pot invol=
ve to be legit.=0A=0AI still like hand crafted or hand painted, more specif=
ic in use=0Ato fend off the vaguaries.=0A=0AE=0A=0A =0AElizabeth Priddy=0A=
=0ABeaufort, NC - USA=0Ahttp://www.elizabethpriddy.com=0Ahttp://www.flickr.=
com/photos/7973282@N03/=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Terranc=
e Lazaroff zalt57@VIDEOTRON.CA=0A=0A=0ABut not all is lost in David=92s ess=
ay. He used a few words such as=0Afactories, workers, industrial, and assem=
bly line that point to the real=0Aquestion. Is the object formed using ind=
ustrial methods or is it created=0Aby the individual craftsperson? It is n=
ot a question of using a mold or a=0Atemplate. It is about the milieu in w=
hich the work is created.=0A=0AThere is definition as to when a craft is a =
craft and an industry is and=0Aindustry. I believe one definition of craft=
sperson is someone whose hand=0Atouches the object through out all stages o=
r aspects of its creation. The=0Arule is broken all the time by various un=
scrupulous people who have and=0Aarmy of workers making =93factory work=94 =
and calling it craft. It is not only=0Ain the clay world but also in all o=
ther disciplines of the crafts.=0A=0A______________________________________=
____________=0ADo You Yahoo!?=0ATired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best sp=
am protection around =0Ahttp://mail.yahoo.com
Kathi LeSueur on wed 2 may 07
Terrance Lazaroff wrote:
>
>.....David said, Once any kind of mold or template determines the final shape
>of the piece, it s not hand made or handmade , in the literal sense .>>>
>
>
>
>
Yet again a question arises. The Detroit Institute of Arts just loaned
out their scupture by Rodin, "The Thinker". Is it really a Rodin
sculpture? I doubt very much that he made the mold or cast the bronze.
And, there is more than one. Toledo has one. Other museums have one. So,
is it a Rodin? Is it a "legitimate" piece of sculpture? Is only fired
clay, carved stone, or carved wood real scuptures? Or, are the rules
different for sculpture?
Kathi
Stephanie Wright on wed 2 may 07
David,
A well written and thoughtful essay. Thank you for sharing it. I think,
that just from the responses to your post, you may have enough material
for a followup essay. Some topics are important enough to bear repeating
and expansion. :-) Just my two cents...
Take care,
Stephanie
stephani stephenson on wed 2 may 07
there are many facets to this and I do think the
perspective and the definition varies, depending on
the field you are in.
for potters, wheel potters especially, often hold the
definitions well described by David, near and dear.
i think it is a matter of heart and head...you love
the medium and the process of making objects from the
hand...it is not only the object, it is often the
significance of the process itself as a cultural,
personal act .... it is also an important definition
and stance with regard to marketing .The handmade
element, for north american potters anyway, is what
sets your work apart, or CAN set your work apart,
hopefully elevate it in value from mass produced 'no
hands here' ware.
and the 'handmade' hill seems to be the thing where
many potters plant their flag, proudly.
in sculpture molds are part of an accepted practice
in sculpture and have been for centuries and
centuries,( molds have also been employed , pressed
up against clay for equally long periods of time, and
with honor, but i digress)...
but for molten metal, especially, some type of
investment is essential , so molds, investments are
essential parts of the process. also true with molten
glass...
these processes are so much a part of some veins of
traditional sculpture they would;d look at you
somewhat askance if you were to lay that definition on
their processes .
and even with non molded mediums.... a sculptor
attacking a slab of marble with his hands might be
thought quite mad, or ineffective at the very least.
so the question becomes somewhat moot, if not absurd
when looking at other fields.
AH, but clay ,malleable clay, forms beautifully
with our hands, and many potters cling to that and
cherish that. from the time we first handle the clay ,
we love that about it.
but handmade pottery is also produced in labor-
dividing settings involving exhausting repetitive
labor (no, not talking about David's studio, though i
am sure there are days! :)
For every studio potter there is someone who simply
hauls clay by hand(or back), or handles or digs clay
(by foot or hand and back), who carries load of pots
back and forth, etc.... i would venture that some
pottery workers throughout the world who's bodies are
bent low with the sheer work of this process do not
have such a romantic notion of handmade as our
esteemed american consumer who seeks it out.
though again , value added from 'handmade' ,one
hopes,can help
potters and pottery workers everywhere.
but back to different fields....
so yes, sculpture, different perspective.
tile is interesting because we draw a similar line ,
only somewhat different, and we don't get quite so
worked up about it, unless we see it being used
fraudulently i suppose.
but our loosely defined working definition would
likely not satisfy our potter friends, but it works
for us.
'handmade tile' is a very loose definition and subject
to ah, interpretation to some degree, but handmade
tile is generally tile which is pressed , extruded,
formed, from moist clay , and i think the term
indicates that a person is doing this, though a
person does not need to form each tile from w lump of
clay with their hands...they move the clay from the
pug or block (or whatever is used), through all the
forming, drying firing , glazing processes, and they
are involved with making the models and generally the
molds themselves, though the actual moldmaking is
offten done by someone who specializes in
moldmaking...though many studio tilemakers make their
own molds as well.
....handmade relief tile is a tile made by a process
whereby moist clay is slammed into a form, rolled out,
etc. and relief either subtracted by carving , etc,
or added to. in some fashion.. but it also applies to
relief tile wherein the model is hand made and formed,
a mold made of the model and tiles subsequently
pressed from that mold. there is generally agreement
about this in the tile world and
those who use commercial tile to handpaint will refer
to their tile as 'hand painted tile'.
in general this use of the word 'handmade' in the tile
world is used to delineate, the small tile studios
from the truly (and impressively) large manufacturers
who produce tile from powder and where no hands touch
it from start to finish... tile perfect and uniform
and made with some amazing technology, but entirely
without our participation! and it is to set us apart
in the eyes of the customer.
in the tile world there are shades of gray ,
especially when you get into medium scale
manufacturers or even individuals who push the
definition too far, but who want to appeal to the
'handmade' seeking customer...,..you hope the cream
(as in high quality) rises to the top, and you try,
as we all do to put out something which cleaves to
the time honored processes. and generally you get on
with it. but. i'll go out on a limb here with a very
generalized statement.....
we are maybe more like sculptors, we don't quite get
so worked up about the same things as potters.
in architectural ceramics boundaries change... in the
heyday of the terra cotta buildings of the late 1800s
and early 1900s, division of labor was key, and the
plants were enormous, but techniques surprisingly
similar to studio techniques were used : carving
sculpting and forming the model out of clay, using
moist clay slammed into molds to make the multiples,
used to fashion the beautiful cladding for these
buildings.. the ability to duplicate a motif was key
to these buildings success, that is the only way these
new metal trussed buildings could rise to the sky clad
in natural clay. and we know refer to these buildings
as 'handmade buildings'.. we seem to be at ease with
this.
i am not really interested in convincing anyone who
has their mind made up that slamming clay against a
form prevents it from being handmade,. in fact , for
potters i think it is essential that you do continue
to herald the hand thrown nature of your work.
it is your lifeline, after all. and i want you to live
long and prosper , as they say, as we are , after all,
quite close together on the bigger family tree.
and my lifeline is not all that different.
but, i am also completely at ease in my mind, as any
observer would be who has watched me work, that my
work comes from my hands and employs many other
skills and body parts as well !
I make one of a kind handbuilt pieces that touch no
molds, no wheels, no extruders, etc(though i
paddle....a lot!!!)
i love doing this but i am also a proud maker of
handmade tile.
Stephani Stephenson
http://www.revivaltileworks
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John Rodgers on wed 2 may 07
David's position was very well stated.
However, I don't agree.
I began work in clay in the slip casting world and over time migrated
into the world of plastic clay. At this point in time, I consider that I
have mastered both worlds sufficiently to rightfully presume that I may
be called an artisan of some skill in both slip casting and pottery
making - wheel or otherwise.
Living in both worlds is very interesting, as I can see clearly both
sides of the debate over what is hand made, and what is not. This debate
has been going on a long time, and in the beginning troubled me a great
deal. I have spent a great deal of time mulling over not whether and
object is handmade or not, but whether that is even the question that
should be asked.
I do a lot of throwing. I do a lot of slip casting. I do all my own work
- start to finish - in both cases - on the wheel and slip casting. I use
my hands, and tools (that includes a wheel - it is a tool, and molds -
they are tools of my own design) to mold the clay to the shape I want.
When I am done, who is to say that my pot from the wheel is handmade,
and my pot from the mold is not?
Recently I entered one of my large decorative functional platters into a
show and it won First Place in Handmade Decorative Craft. I used a
wheel, a slab roller, an extruder, a melon baller, press molds and
rolling pin to create the platter. Should it have been disqualified?? I
think not. Why?? Because I ultimately was the maker and caused it to all
come together.
Last year, I received a commission for 400 handmade chalices and 400
patens (communion plate) . The client had been unable to find any potter
in my area willing to tackle the task, until they ran across me. I took
the challenge, and produced the 800 pieces. I created chalice and paten
designs, created models, did all the carving on the models, made the
throw-away molds, the master molds, then the 54 production molds for
the chalice and 54 production molds for the paten. And I made up the
slip from dry ingredients and I did the slip casting and I did trimming,
and I did the cleanup, chasing, and re-detailing needed and I did the
assembly and I the bisque loads in the kilns and I did the waxing of
the 400 feet and I did the glazing and I loaded the kilns for the
glaze firing, and I took them all out when done. And for the patens I
put the molds on the wheel, and I weighed the clay balls, and I put the
clay balls on the wheel and squashed them out to relative flatness with
my hands as the wheel turned and I pulled the jiggering arm on the back
of my wheel for the profile plate that I designed to form the back side
of the paten, and as I did so, the clay pressed into the mold to pick up
the pattern I designed into the paten upper surface). When the paten
formed, I set the mold aside to dry. When done, I loaded the kiln for
bisque firing, I next did the waxing of the foot ring, the glazing, and
loading of the kiln for the glaze firing. When all was done, I had 800
pieces of work sitting there that were all made by my own hands, with
the help of tools.
I describe all this because it begs the question "Was it hand made?"
Even with all that effort, and all that personal hands-on work, there
are those who will hold the view that it is not handmade.
Fact is, I believe the question of handmade or not is moot. .I believe
the REAL question is "Who dun it?"
Is the artisan whose name is on the item personally involved in a
hands-on way?
THAT is the real question.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Kim Overall wrote:
> very well stated David
>
> now I'm ready and armed with verbal ammunition at the next handmade debate
> go-round and will gladly credit my references.
>
> Kim Overall
> Houston, TX
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
lela martens on wed 2 may 07
I am not presuming to speak for David. My head says
it is a Rodin reproduction, and it is honestly presented
as such.
Copenhagen has a `David`, same thing. A way of bringing
facsimilies to the public who otherwise would never be
able to see `the real thing`.
Lela
>
>>
>>.....David said, Once any kind of mold or template determines the final
>>shape
>>of the piece, it s not hand made or handmade , in the literal sense
>>.>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Yet again a question arises. The Detroit Institute of Arts just loaned
>out their scupture by Rodin, "The Thinker". Is it really a Rodin
>sculpture? I doubt very much that he made the mold or cast the bronze.
>And, there is more than one. Toledo has one. Other museums have one. So,
>is it a Rodin? Is it a "legitimate" piece of sculpture? Is only fired
>clay, carved stone, or carved wood real scuptures? Or, are the rules
>different for sculpture?
>
>Kathi
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Fine Dining & Fancy Food. Check Out This Collection Of Good Eats.
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claystevslat on wed 2 may 07
Kathi --
Interesting point, but didn't David specify that the
hand-in-the-clay part of some pottery making was what
made it hand-made?
You can't make a bronze statue with your hands alone,
tools and processes are needed. For the Rodin, I
believe the real issue is not whether it's 'handmade'
but whether it's legitimate to have a production run
of items that are supposed to be cast.
And, subsequently, if there's the same value to a
bronze sculpture made by painstakingly creating a
mold from an original model vs. one made by
painstakingly creating a mold from an original casting.
-- Steve S
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Kathi LeSueur wrote:
>
> Terrance Lazaroff wrote:
>
> >
> >.....David said, Once any kind of mold or template determines
the final shape
> >of the piece, it s not hand made or handmade , in the literal
sense .>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Yet again a question arises. The Detroit Institute of Arts just
loaned
> out their scupture by Rodin, "The Thinker". Is it really a Rodin
> sculpture? I doubt very much that he made the mold or cast the
bronze.
> And, there is more than one. Toledo has one.
Chris Campbell on wed 2 may 07
Hand made.
The term itself makes me smile ... hand made by whom
and with how much skill?
Our 'Potters Guild' is having a fundraiser ...members will be
selling their SECONDS (!*&%%##!!!) to the public.
Kind of kicks the life out of the term 'Guild' while corrupting
the value of hand made ... doesn't it?
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina - quietly banging her
head against the wall.
David Hendley on thu 3 may 07
Terrance, please quit mis-quoting and exaggerating
what I wrote. Your first response was so far out there
I didn't even care to reply. Come on, comparing a
table and a rolling pin to a slip mold is downright silly.
I do thank Vince for taking the time to reply.
Your statement below is entirely misleading and wrong:
>David's point of view is one that does not give a shade of grey. He is
>adamant that people who use molds or templates to create their art cannot
>call it hand made. And I quote,
>
>>So, are there any absolutes? Is there a line that
>>Can't be crossed if a piece is still to be called "handmade"?
>>Does process matter? I say "yes"
You conveniently left out this quote from the essay:
> Jiggered work is not handmade, pressed work is not
> handmade, and slip cast work is not handmade, no
> matter how well designed and well made. The
> exception would be in the case where pressed or cast
> pieces are twisted, cut apart, or re-assembled, in
> which case they are really being used as building
> components.
This pretty well includes your hybrid pots that have thrown
and molded and/or extruded components. Get it, there's
that word "components". This is so obvious that it's a
non-issue that you keep trying to make an issue. Almost
as inane as wondering if a slab pot is handmade if a
rolling pin was used to make the slab.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david@farmpots.com
www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
Hello Vince;
It is a joy to hear you come back at me. I missed our debates these last
couple of years. Perhaps I push the envelope a bit far when I use my
examples but this is a serious discussion. The point of the rebuttal is
that Dave is comparing the work of a craftsperson that uses molds and
templates to a factory worker pumping out industrialized products.
Nevertheless, my examples do lead us to ask the question, how far can one
go when using templates and still be able to call there work hand made.
Kim Overall on thu 3 may 07
JOHN!
Woowee. Reading your post on your production alone wore me out and it's
only 8am.
Your work is "handmade from execution in design throughout the production
process". Your post attributes to that.
Stephanie summed it up quite nicely, too in that the topic presented
translates into symantics.
My interpretation to David's essence of "handmade" is congruent with the
word's derivative as he pointed out.
Quite right in your last line: Who did the work IS important, but the
marketing verbage should be truthful, don't you think? Isn't how this
thread originated?
PS: I'm not sure it related to this thread, but I liked who wrote:
Warning: Incoming Flack! :o>, too cute.
Clayart always makes me laugh out loud.
That reminds me...where has Dolita disappeared to?
Terrance Lazaroff on thu 3 may 07
Hello Vince;
It is a joy to hear you come back at me. I missed our debates these last
couple of years. Perhaps I push the envelope a bit far when I use my
examples but this is a serious discussion. The point of the rebuttal is
that Dave is comparing the work of a craftsperson that uses molds and
templates to a factory worker pumping out industrialized products.
Nevertheless, my examples do lead us to ask the question, how far can one
go when using templates and still be able to call there work hand made.
David=92s point of view is one that does not give a shade of grey. He is
adamant that people who use molds or templates to create their art cannot
call it hand made. And I quote,
So, are there any absolutes? Is there a line that
Can=92t be crossed if a piece is still to be called "handmade"?
Dose process matter? I say "yes"
Can we be just a little bit hand made? According to you we can. And I quote,=
I am always a little baffled when people misinterpret a post so
Unnecessarily, and then resort to exaggeration and fantasy in support of
their premise. David Hendley never said or even implied what you state
above. If you are hand-throwing a piece, then OF COURSE it is handmade,
even if you add a press-molded handle
But what about Dave? Does he agree with you? If he does then his argument
is just a gaggle of words.
I appreciate your support on this matter as I do throw many pots and apply
molded feet. However, will you continue to support me in light of Dave=92s
argument, if I mold the pot and throw the foot? What if I mold the entire
piece and then pinch the lip?
I am not misinterpreting this essay. I am just questioning the thinking of
someone who it leaning just a tiny little bit towards elitism and our craft
does not need to go down that road.
Lois Ruben Aronow on thu 3 may 07
I fear that this discussion is breaking into minutiae, and there's a pretty
simple answer.
If it his handmade by the maker, or by assistants under the tutelage and
scrutiny of the maker, then it is handmade, regardless of the process.
If it is handmade by someone else - nameless faces in a factory, it is
mass-produced, regardless of the process.
Handmade is special. Mass produced is not. Unless it's an egg separator
that pours boogers - then I vote super special.
...Lo
Who is afraid of offending anyone, but must still laugh at toad houses.
**********
Lois Aronow Ceramics
Brooklyn, NY
www.loisaronow.com
www.craftsofthedamned.blogspot.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Terrance Lazaroff
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:46 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: "Handmade" Still Means "Hand" Made
>
> Hello Vince;
>
> It is a joy to hear you come back at me. I missed our debates
> these last
> couple of years. Perhaps I push the envelope a bit far when I use my
> examples but this is a serious discussion. The point of the
> rebuttal is
> that Dave is comparing the work of a craftsperson that uses
> molds and templates to a factory worker pumping out
> industrialized products.
>
> Nevertheless, my examples do lead us to ask the question, how
> far can one go when using templates and still be able to call
> there work hand made.
> David's point of view is one that does not give a shade of
> grey. He is
> adamant that people who use molds or templates to create
> their art cannot call it hand made. And I quote,
>
> So, are there any absolutes? Is there a line that Can't be
> crossed if a piece is still to be called "handmade"?
> Dose process matter? I say "yes"
>
> Can we be just a little bit hand made? According to you we
> can. And I quote,
>
> I am always a little baffled when people misinterpret a post
> so Unnecessarily, and then resort to exaggeration and fantasy
> in support of their premise. David Hendley never said or
> even implied what you state above. If you are hand-throwing
> a piece, then OF COURSE it is handmade, even if you add a
> press-molded handle
>
> But what about Dave? Does he agree with you? If he does then
> his argument is just a gaggle of words.
>
> I appreciate your support on this matter as I do throw many
> pots and apply molded feet. However, will you continue to
> support me in light of Dave's argument, if I mold the pot and
> throw the foot? What if I mold the entire piece and then
> pinch the lip?
>
> I am not misinterpreting this essay. I am just questioning
> the thinking of someone who it leaning just a tiny little bit
> towards elitism and our craft does not need to go down that road.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Bonnie Staffel on thu 3 may 07
Hi Clayarters,
I wonder how many remember Howard Kottler and the work he did one time long
ago as he pushed the rules of entering slip cast forms in shows. I recall
that he had several commercial slip pieces of green ware, assembled them
into another final form to enter into a show that did not allow slip cast
work. It shook up the clay world then as I recall.
In my history of entering shows and fairs, the term "no slip cast forms
allowed" was always in the rules.
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Gayle Bair on fri 4 may 07
As a child and young adult I was very inspired by
the various sculptures in the Rodin Museum in Philadelphia.
Whether they were the original or last to come out of the mold
just didn't matter!
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: lela martens
I am not presuming to speak for David. My head says
it is a Rodin reproduction, and it is honestly presented
as such.
Copenhagen has a `David`, same thing. A way of bringing
facsimilies to the public who otherwise would never be
able to see `the real thing`.
Lela
....David said, Once any kind of mold or template determines the final
>>shapeof the piece, it s not hand made or handmade , in the literal
sense
Yet again a question arises. The Detroit Institute of Arts just loaned
>out their scupture by Rodin, "The Thinker". Is it really a Rodin
>sculpture? I doubt very much that he made the mold or cast the bronze.
>And, there is more than one. Toledo has one. Other museums have one. So,
>is it a Rodin? Is it a "legitimate" piece of sculpture? Is only fired
>clay, carved stone, or carved wood real scuptures? Or, are the rules
>different for sculpture?
>
>Kathi
>
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Richard Aerni on fri 4 may 07
On Thu, 3 May 2007 22:42:32 -0400, Bonnie Staffel
wrote:
>Hi Clayarters,
>
>I wonder how many remember Howard Kottler and the work he did one time long
>ago as he pushed the rules of entering slip cast forms in shows.
Hi Bonnie,
I think you are referring to Howard's piece, "The Old Bag Next Door Must Be
Nuts," which was a cast paper shopping bag full of cast walnuts. As I
recall, the storm that piece set off in the letters section of Ceramics
Monthly kept us entertained at the studio for months.
Best to you, as spring has finally appeared in our part of the world!
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Randall Moody on fri 4 may 07
Did Mr. Kottler attempt to say that his piece was "handmade" or did he just
let the art of the piece speak for itself? Why do we never see the term
"handmade" in the art world but it is such an issue in the craft world? Why
do we as crafters automatically segregate ourselves with the small divisions
within the medium and then lament that we are not recognized as "artists" or
held in the same esteem as other media.
Randall in Atlanta
On 5/4/07, Richard Aerni wrote:
>
> Hi Bonnie,
> I think you are referring to Howard's piece, "The Old Bag Next Door Must
> Be
> Nuts," which was a cast paper shopping bag full of cast walnuts. As I
> recall, the storm that piece set off in the letters section of Ceramics
> Monthly kept us entertained at the studio for months.
> Best to you, as spring has finally appeared in our part of the world!
> Richard Aerni
> Rochester, NY
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Terrance Lazaroff on fri 4 may 07
Without malice;
Dave:
I realized after, when I used the term =93elitism=94, you would be a bit ups=
et.
In addition, If I mis-quoted you I am truly sorry. Could you point out the
mis-quote so that I can write and apology.
I still, however stand, by my exaggerated responses. The reason I am doing
this is to show that we cannot start to categorize individual methods of
creation. By doing this it looks like,(to me), that we are trying to
elevate on persons method of creation over another. We can box the
terms =93industry=94 and =93factory=94 and =93mass production=94, but we can=
not clearly
define the term =93handmade, Hand-made =94 Without entering into a grey area=
that might upset people around us. If we truly wish to use the term
handmade we will have to elaborate. 100%hand-made, 60% handmade. I think
the only true 100% handmade pot comes from some village in Africa where the
craft-person goes to the river, digs the clay, prepares, the clay, forms
the pot on the ground using only hands and a bent twig as a template,
decorating with stone and firing it in cow dung.
You are right Dave I did over look the quote,
Jiggered work is not handmade, pressed work is not
handmade, and slip cast work is not handmade, no
matter how well designed and well made. The
exception would be in the case where pressed or cast
pieces are twisted, cut apart, or re-assembled, in
which case they are really being used as building
components.
It is nice to know that I can continue to use the term =93hand-made=94. I fe=
el
sorry, however, for all those other clayart, guys that slip cast there
canvases and forms and do not alter them, I know the clayart artists who
jolly and press their forms and apply rich and beautiful glazes will
understand that they cannot consider their work hand-made if they don=92t
distort them.
With all the being said, I must fall back on the closing statement in my
original response. That is, =93There is definition as to when a craft is a
craft and an industry is and industry. I believe one definition of
craftsperson is someone whose hand touches the object through out all
stages or aspects of its creation. The rule is broken all the time by
various unscrupulous people who have and army of workers making =93factory
work=94 and calling it craft. It is not only
in the clay world but also in all other disciplines of the crafts
This is my final post on this subject as I realize that I cannot continue
without touching a nerve.
Terrance Lazaroff
visit my web site http://clayart.ca/
James Graham on fri 4 may 07
Having watched this debate from the sidelines, a couple of observations=20
emerge:
First, =93handmade=94 is a concept which cannot fully encompass all the=20
complexities of any ceramic process more technologically involved than=20
classic =93handbuilding=94. There is an implied dichotomy between Handmad=
e=20
and some other, ill-defined opposite, but we can=92t seem to pin down=20
exactly what that opposite is. Clearly, if there were some machine out=20
there that could take a digital design file and spit out a pot, that=20
would be the opposite of handmade, but I don=92t think we=92re there yet.=
=20
For any process short of that kind of mechanization, some argument could=20
always be made for the involvement of the human hand. So, although we=20
pretend that this dichotomy exists, we actually have a richly shaded=20
continuum.
Any line drawn across that continuum meant to divide =93handmade=94 from=20
it=92s opposite will, necessarily, be an arbitrary one. Dividing lines,=20
even arbitrary ones, serve some useful purposes; but they can also=20
exclude, alienate and offend, and so should be used cautiously and with=20
full awareness that they reflect a provisional distinction and not=20
always the =93real world=94. The usefulness of the term =93handmade=94 as=
a=20
marketing tool is clear; it plays to the buyer=92s longing to connect to=20
another human through the object. But we, in using that term, should=20
acknowledge that there is not some hard and fast =93real=94 line cutting=20
through the clay community.
Why do we react so strongly to what we perceive as a misuse of the word=20
=93handmade=94? Suppose some guy in your vicinity is doing the most=20
egregious form of impersonal mass production imaginable and selling it=20
as =93handmade=94, while you, with your wheel, are turning out 1/10 of th=
e=20
quantity and charging 4 times as much. Do you feel that he is taking=20
money from your pocket with his =93false=94 claim? If your production and=
=20
his were sharing a shelf, would the buyer see a difference? Does=20
=93handmaking=94 produce a product tangibly different than whatever you=20
consider =93not handmade=94? If so, then the buyer who is looking for tha=
t=20
human connection will prefer your work and be willing to pay the higher=20
price. If that personal connection doesn=92t come across in the work=20
itself, though, then perhaps the fault is in the work, and you are=20
asking the buyer to pay for nothing more than an idea.
Jim Graham
David Hendley on fri 4 may 07
Terrance,
I'm not upset at all. I just can't understand why you want
to say ridiculous things like equating a slip casting mold
to a potters wheel or a rolling pin. I venture to say no
one reading this, not one single person, would equate them
(anyone?).
As for misquoting, you have already apologized (below), by
admitting that you left out probably the most important
paragraph of the original essay and then pretending that
it was not there, when arguing against my premise.
You say
>we cannot start to categorize individual methods of
>creation.
Of course we can. Any one who wants to can categorize individual
methods of creation. You are welcome to your opinion as well.
You say
>By doing this it looks like,(to me), that we are trying to
>elevate on[e] persons method of creation over another.
Once again, did you forget key parts of my original essay?
Let me repeat:
First, let me make it perfectly clear that "handmade"
does not mean "good" and "not handmade" does not
mean "bad". We've all seen examples of horrendous
handmade pottery, like those lop-sided boat anchors
that somehow made it past the critique in Ceramics 101.
Likewise, there are many examples of elegantly
designed and beautifully crafted factory-made pottery.
In fact, many artistic and talented people working in
ceramics are not even concerned with the process of
pottery making. To them, the ceramic form is just a
"canvas" for painting.
Finally, let me comment on your proposed definition of craft:
> There is definition as to when a craft is a
> craft and an industry is and industry. I believe one definition of
> craftsperson is someone whose hand touches the object through out all
> stages or aspects of its creation.
You are welcome to the use your definition, but just
know that you are now lumping many fine potters
who have apprentices or helpers, making fine handmade
work, in with the factory workers who make toilets and
snot-nosed egg separators.
This will also be my final post on this subject
because people are getting sick of it, and I have
already violated my "only-two-posts-on-a-subject-
on-Clayart" rule.
Also, Terrance, as per your invitation in your signature,
I tried to look at your website, to see some of your
combination thrown and molded pots, and all I can
get is a title page. I clicked all over the place but
can't get anything else.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david(at)farmpots(dot)com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
Without malice;
Dave:
I realized after, when I used the term "elitism", you would be a bit upset.
In addition, If I mis-quoted you I am truly sorry. Could you point out the
mis-quote so that I can write and apology.
I still, however stand, by my exaggerated responses. The reason I am doing
this is to show that we cannot start to categorize individual methods of
creation. By doing this it looks like,(to me), that we are trying to
elevate on persons method of creation over another. We can box the
terms "industry" and "factory" and "mass production", but we cannot clearly
define the term "handmade, Hand-made " Without entering into a grey area
that might upset people around us. If we truly wish to use the term
handmade we will have to elaborate. 100%hand-made, 60% handmade. I think
the only true 100% handmade pot comes from some village in Africa where the
craft-person goes to the river, digs the clay, prepares, the clay, forms
the pot on the ground using only hands and a bent twig as a template,
decorating with stone and firing it in cow dung.
You are right Dave I did over look the quote,
Jiggered work is not handmade, pressed work is not
handmade, and slip cast work is not handmade, no
matter how well designed and well made. The
exception would be in the case where pressed or cast
pieces are twisted, cut apart, or re-assembled, in
which case they are really being used as building
components.
It is nice to know that I can continue to use the term "hand-made". I feel
sorry, however, for all those other clayart, guys that slip cast there
canvases and forms and do not alter them, I know the clayart artists who
jolly and press their forms and apply rich and beautiful glazes will
understand that they cannot consider their work hand-made if they don't
distort them.
With all the being said, I must fall back on the closing statement in my
original response. That is, "There is definition as to when a craft is a
craft and an industry is and industry. I believe one definition of
craftsperson is someone whose hand touches the object through out all
stages or aspects of its creation. The rule is broken all the time by
various unscrupulous people who have and army of workers making "factory
work" and calling it craft. It is not only
in the clay world but also in all other disciplines of the crafts
This is my final post on this subject as I realize that I cannot continue
without touching a nerve.
Terrance Lazaroff
visit my web site http://clayart.ca/
Lois Ruben Aronow on fri 4 may 07
Just my opinion, and not to offend anyone...but I would guess the "no slip
cast" rules are put forth by promoters who have no idea what it means to
make work. I can only speak for shows like Philly Museum, ACC Baltimore,
Northampton....and tell you there is lots of slipcast work there.
One of the best examples (no, I'm not going on about Tom Spleth again) is
Heather Mae Erickson, who works primarily with industrial slipcast
techniques. She was a Spotlight artist at ACC Baltimore - quite an
achievement. Here are photos and bio from her Clay Studio residency:
http://www.theclaystudio.org/artist/resident/erickson.php. She is referred
to quite frequently in Andrew Martin's incredible "The Essential Guide to
Mold Making".
I don't think anyone can argue that this work is not handmade. Bravo to her
for using a traditionally bland technique in an new and extremely exciting
way. Her work is thrilling to see and hold, and I want it. Badly.
I will also give a HUGE shout out to my old studio mates, Neil and Ruby of
Tactile Geometrics.
http://www.tactilegeometrics.com/Sculpture/Sculpt_Intro.html Blow your mind
gorgeous. And don't argue with me that it's tile - you know you wish you
thought of it - I certainly did. For 5 years I saw them make masters and
molds and tests and clay bodies and slip bodies and god, you name it. They
do it all themselves by hand, and it shows. They have won many awards, and
deservedly so. They even make the frames for the wall work. (I covet their
power tool collection, I admit it)
While there is something very primal about throwing, it is no way indicative
of one's talent or creativity. There is shitty thrown work, and
breathtaking slipcast art.
It all comes down to WHO makes it, not HOW.
...Lo
Who has hands, but no fingernails.
**********
Lois Aronow Ceramics
Brooklyn, NY
www.loisaronow.com
www.craftsofthedamned.blogspot.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Bonnie Staffel
> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:43 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: "Handmade" Still Means "Hand" Made
>
> Hi Clayarters,
>
> I wonder how many remember Howard Kottler and the work he did
> one time long ago as he pushed the rules of entering slip
> cast forms in shows. I recall that he had several commercial
> slip pieces of green ware, assembled them into another final
> form to enter into a show that did not allow slip cast work.
> It shook up the clay world then as I recall.
>
> In my history of entering shows and fairs, the term "no slip
> cast forms allowed" was always in the rules.
>
> Bonnie Staffel
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
> http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
> DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
> DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
> Charter Member Potters Council
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
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>
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> melpots@pclink.com.
Bobbruch1@AOL.COM on sat 5 may 07
I think that the reason this issue becomes so contentious
isn't the "WHAT" but the "WHY" ... I am coming in here a
little late, so my apologies if this already has been covered.
Maybe it would seem clearer if the focus was on WHY this
is important.
I sell most of my work at galleries, so I may have a slightly
different take than those at craft/art fairs or direct sellers.
It may be different in some areas, but a number of the better
galleries that handle "handmade" clay and glass tend to have
a strong gift component, that is - they really are upper end
gift shops which are nothing like the galleries that were in the
NCECA exhibition room. In these same galleries are the work
of glass "artists" who are really running small factories and
producing 10 to 20 pieces per day. These "artists" are able
to price work at levels that would be hard to compete with
and earn a living producing one of a kind hand made work.
I am sure that there are ceramic versions at many craft fairs.
Now I look at this work as well made and attractive Midwestern
versions of Eastern European and East Asian factory ware. If
the customers that are scooping up these pieces at these bargain
prices were told that these were done in a factory overseas, they
wouldn't touch the work. But they aren't being told that. They also
are not being told that it is being done in a factory 20 miles away.
When there is an opening, these artists are standing next to people
like us acting as though they have toiled over each and every piece
the same way that we do. THAT is the problem. The buying public
has no idea as to each artist's process and some of these processes
appear to be misrepresented. That misrepresentation causes
pricing anomalies that make it difficult for some people to compete
in the marketplace.
David writes: You conveniently left out this quote from the essay:
> Jiggered work is not handmade, pressed work is not
> handmade, and slip cast work is not handmade, no
> matter how well designed and well made. The
> exception would be in the case where pressed or cast
> pieces are twisted, cut apart, or re-assembled, in
> which case they are really being used as building
> components.
**************************************
See what's free at
http://www.aol.com.
Chris Campbell on sat 5 may 07
Vince wrote these lines in his posting
in the 'Re: Narrative' thread .
His musings made me wonder if they
could be applied to our definitions of
'handmade'.
> I suppose you could define
> "non-narrative art" as that art in which
> narrative is not a primary focus.
> That makes sense to me.
> So "non-narrative art" is not the same
> thing as "art devoid of narrative."
So can we also make room for other methods
of working with clay ... such as slip casting ...
as a process where handmade is not the
primary focus rather than dismissing it as
pottery devoid of hand craft?
He also said ...
> The more we learn about art, and the artists'
> reasons for making art, the more we can respond
> with an open mind and appreciate the incredible
> range of work that is out there.
Can this also apply to keeping an open mind
about how potters chose to create their work?
Every step requires choices ... I am sure that the
first person to devise wheel throwing was ridiculed
by the coil builders as having abandoned hand made.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Bonnie Staffel on sat 5 may 07
Dear Clayarters,=20
I beg to differ with the poster who said that potters are not educated =
about
mold making and slip casting. In my early books, all had instruction in
this medium. Being a newbie in clay, I wanted to learn it all. In =
fact, my
husband designed a "bud vase" in his unique design and we learned about
making a mold and casting. He would then decorate it with his unique
designs. Wish I had one of them now. But we were new to the scene so =
did
not make them to sell, but to learn. In my first years, I also taught
classes to the neighborhood "ladies" who didn't want clay under their
fingernails. So I purchased greenware (ugh!!!) to satisfy and perhaps =
light
a little fire in their minds about making or finishing something in =
clay. I
did graduate them to using things in nature to impress in slabs of clay =
so
felt I was making progress. In those days, clay work was unique to be =
found
in homes. So the customer base had to be educated as well. =20
Most of the questions I got when I showed at my first art fair at the =
Toledo
Artists Club which had mostly painters exhibiting, were, what is
this?...what is this used for?...etc., which told me there would a lot =
of
education needed if I were to succeed. Still, I sold one piece for $15 =
and
that was the start. However, when I entered the famous Ann Arbor Art =
Fair
the third year it was in existence, my sales were overwhelming. I =
didn't
even have enough pockets to put the money. Well, that told me that =
Michigan
people were educated in clay and pots. I sold a lot of work to the =
students
too. It was a heady ride. The response from Michigan customers was why =
we
decided to settle in northern Michigan to make our own trail. =20
I made sculptures of animals using the wheel to give me the basic forms =
and
added hand built additions. Years ago a gallery wanted to know if I =
could
make a certain animal a lot smaller. Well, smaller isn't always easier =
or
quicker, so I made a press mold of the basic shape and added the hand =
built
embellishments that made the animal recognizable. The gallery refused =
them
as they didn't want anything made from a press mold. I continued to =
produce
these for my own shop though as we were just getting started in our =
business
and had to pay the bills. All of my other animals and birds are all =
hand
thrown and altered. So my knowledge of making a mold became useful. =20
I looked up Donald Frith who is Professor Emeritus at the U. of Illinois =
in
Champaign, Illinois. Winner of many awards, he retired in l989 to Santa
Maria, California wrote a book on how to make molds and also found that
John Stephenson of University of Michigan (?) Ann Arbor and highly =
respected
clay artist uses wooden molds to assist in the construction of his work. =
I
am sure there are other clay artists who find the use of molds in their =
work
stimulating and helpful to achieve what they want to create. I think =
that
this subject is creating closed minds about materials and assists in =
this
modern day. It seems more like it is the use of the word "hand made" is =
the
semantic excuse and is disturbing the waters.
I really abhor the closing of doors on methods in the creation of clay =
works
-- as long as the concept is original. I am not surprised at such =
narrow
mindedness of those we might call the "purists" in clay workers. I =
have
always considered myself a "designer/craftsman" which allows me to =
pursue
any idea that comes into my head, whether good or ugly, and I have made =
a
few pretty ugly ones using the press mold (and even thrown work). I =
would
love to live that one down but it is out there somewhere. I used a =
plastic
half of a city light globe to support the pinches of clay which I was =
able
to rotate in such a way as to get almost a ball with a hole just large
enough for my hand to get inside. It was a challenge that surprised me =
when
it was accomplished. I liked the pattern of the clay pinches and they =
were
emphasized with a wash of iron oxide. I then added a pedestal to make =
it a
complete sculpture. There is no other way of getting the pattern that I
achieve with a press mold. I even throw forms and bisque fire them to =
use
as molds to get this effect. The method also calls for no strength =
either
so I can continue to produce pots for as long as my interest is there. =20
Molds have been around for ages. One of the fantastic sights I saw on =
my
visit to China were the buried soldiers. The method that they used to =
make
these sculptures we were told was by using press molds, yet each soldier =
was
different. And then visiting the workroom by the museum there were many
girls, mainly, recreating these soldiers pressing clay into the molds on =
the
floor. Their workmanship was superb with no hint of any mold marks. =
These
recreated sculptures were then sold to the public. When the soldiers =
were
found, they were broken but the artistry of the Chinese artisans put =
them
back together with not a hint of a crack or mend mark. The question =
then
arises, since each of these soldiers were different, made in press =
molds,
were they "hand made?" =20
I would like to point out two of my old pots that were press molded, one
using a wooden salad bowl and the other from a bisque mold I threw. =
Look on
the Pottery Page of my website, second row vertical, second one down, =
fourth
one down are the two I am referring to. =20
Thanks for listening,
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
lela martens on sat 5 may 07
As you all can tell by now, I often try to make my point through
examples I have experienced personally. I wasn`t going to pass
this one along because it still ticks me off and I am reminded of
how low some people can go.
About 3 years ago we spent an afternoon at the Calgary Folk
Music Festival. Daughter and son-in-law volunteer every summer.
There were a few art-craft vendors under canopys. On young
fellow had tie-dyed things and about 30 identical shaped drinking
vessels. White glaze with sloppy brushed on slashes of various
colours over. So I asked him about his pottery.
He said he had thrown them by hand on his wheel, that he used the
very rare, started in the 11th century method of majolica decoration.
He then fired them to 1326 C. for 24 hours. I could only look at him,
shake my head and tell him he was full of it..That he`d better do more
research if that was the BS he was spewing. He just grinned at me.
I suspect they were shipped up from Mexico..or some such.
again...aauuugh!
Lela who is going to help take down our guild sale and try to explain to
another guild member that her `buyer beware` attitude is not acceptable.
another aauuggh.
>Maybe it would seem clearer if the focus was on WHY this
>is important.
These "artists" are able
>to price work at levels that would be hard to compete with
>and earn a living producing one of a kind hand made work.
The buying public
>has no idea as to each artist's process and some of these processes
>appear to be misrepresented. That misrepresentation causes
>pricing anomalies that make it difficult for some people to compete
>in the marketplace.
_________________________________________________________________
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Vince Pitelka on sat 5 may 07
Chris Campbell wrote:
> Every step requires choices ... I am sure that the
> first person to devise wheel throwing was ridiculed
> by the coil builders as having abandoned hand made.
Chris -
I appreciate your part in this conversation, but regarding your statement
above, I cannot agree. We don't have that information definitively, but all
the wheel does is provide rotary motion to allow clay to be worked in an
entirely different way, and being a serious coil-builder as welll as a
thrower, I cannot imagine coil-builders responding that way. When working
on the wheel, it is still up to the potter's hands to form the vessel, and
it is still handmade by every definition. You simply cannot say that about
a piece that is slip-cast as a finished product, with only some cleanup on
the seams. That is mass-production, and there's no way a person could
honestly pass it off as handmade. That would be a lie. I really cannot be
mild about that.
In every medium, there are tranditional and contemporary craftspeople who
are committed to the purity of handmade work. There's nothing wrong with
using power tools to fashion parts, or to use an electric potter's wheel to
provide rotary motion, but when the finished piece comes out of a mold, it
just ain't handmade any more, and I haven't heard a shred of compelling
evidence to convince me otherwise.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Kathi LeSueur on sat 5 may 07
Chris Campbell wrote:
>So can we also make room for other methods
>of working with clay ... such as slip casting ...
>as a process where handmade is not the
>primary focus rather than dismissing it as
>pottery devoid of hand craft?.....
>
>Can this also apply to keeping an open mind
>about how potters chose to create their work?
>
>Every step requires choices ... I am sure that the
>first person to devise wheel throwing was ridiculed
>by the coil builders as having abandoned hand made.>>>
>
I can't speak to slip casting since I've never done it. But for a time I
did have access to a RAM press. I can tell you that pressing has it's
own problems. People think you just "throw on a die", put the clay on
and every 30 seconds have a finished piece. Not so. Setting up the die
took at least a half hour ( the sucker weighted 400 lbs.) Then I had to
go through all of the throw away pieces that it took to "sweeten the
die" before getting good pressings. There are a multitude of problems
with pieces from a press. The die can be made wrong and the air pressure
will be uneven. Lots of pots with the side blown out. The die can clog
causing the clay to stick. The die can cause tiny air bubbles in the
surface. If the die isn't exactly registered the top and bottom will be
off. Trimming is a nightmare. As for a finished product, I always hand
finished the pieces. Otherwise they didn't look good. I usually added
carving, handles, or other things. I also learned that a press is only
good for someone doing large amounts of production. The kiln is the
final decider. It only has so much capacity. So, you can make lots of
one thing, but what good is it if there is no kiln space available to fire.
I must say, though, that it was very helpful when I cut my hand and had
to throw one handled. Also, when I had surgery on my shoulder. That's
when I got really creative with the pressings. But, in the end I decided
pressing wasn't for me. It was just more efficient to thrown the pieces
that I needed than take all of the time to set the press up and tear it
down.
The one criticism I hear about those who press, that we can't compete
with them, I haven't found to be true. The people I know who press
charge just as much for their work. The have the overhead of the press,
new dies, working dies, and possibly people to help them. I'm not sure
they make anymore money in the end.
Kathi
>
>
>
>
Elizabeth Priddy on mon 7 may 07
I would rather think that at that point in history,
having a pot at all was more important than the
esoteric qualities of hand made or wheel thrown.
I still contend that it is all smoke and mirrors regarding
handmade, and that people who get in a bunch about
it have deeper issues they would really like to be talking about.
But the "philosophical" overtones of integrity and purity
of craft sound a lot better in conversation than generic
bitching about the guy in the booth across from you three shows
ago who made a killing while you sat there and sweated
your gas money.
As a professionally trained philosopher, I hereby declare this
debate to be pragmatic bullshit, a technical term, by the way.
It means that it is like people arguing about what a word
means in common usage. Just get a dictionary and be on
about your business, the both of you.
That was the general you, not you, Chris.
See you in June!
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
...Every step requires choices ... I am sure that the
first person to devise wheel throwing was ridiculed
by the coil builders as having abandoned hand made.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
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