Lesley Anton on tue 1 may 07
Lois, and Lezlie,
I think the main point here is really just about the interpretation
of what JA claimed on this now infamous Oprah episode.
Since Lezlie was kind enough to post the actual interview, we can see
that JA never claimed to throw any of his current pieces. ..it's in
the interview plain and clear.
I just wish young ceramics students were taught a bit more about
marketing their work in college - perhaps how to slip cast (probably
all you educators out there teach that now but not back in the 80's
when I was in school) There are such few ways for potters or
ceramicists to make a more than comfortable living at doing their
art. Gallery work - teaching - perhaps owning a shop that sells
gobs and gobs of pots a week, or trecking to 4 rain soaked craft
fairs a month. Now in my mid 40's I am plain exhausted. The love
of making ceramics fades a bit when trying to pay the bills when you
can't stand up straight from throwing so much.
For all of those in education - are there trends toward marketing
now? Are the stigmas attached to slip casting still attached in the
college environment? I totally agree with the fact that students
should always learn how to do all the basics and do them well but I
really felt limited as I was shoved out of college fairly unprepared
for the real world. Talented artists shouldn't always have to be
starving ....especially in a field where their wares are so tangible
for humans - vessels of any form should be the most marketable thing
in the world.
What are all of your thoughts on that?
Thanks
Lesley Anton
On May 1, 2007, at 5:22 AM, Lois Ruben Aronow wrote:
> I would say it is different, in the sense that WHO makes the work is
> different than HOW the work is made.
>
> Just my opinion: If you design the work and have it mass produced
> anywhere,
> not just overseas, you are a designer - and there's nothing wrong
> with being
> a designer.
>
> If you design the work, and, either make it yourself or personally
> oversee
> the making (and quality) of that work, you are a designer AND a
> potter,
> regardless if the work is slip cast, thrown, hand built.
>
> If you design the work and have it slip cast, mass produced and
> then promote
> it as being "hand thrown", you are a either a liar and a pr wiz.
>
> ..Lo
> Who is well aware Anna Sui doesn't sew the dresses, or even claim to.
>
>
> *********
> Lois Aronow Ceramics
> Brooklyn, NY
>
>
> www.loisaronow.com
> www.craftsofthedamned.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
>> Alyssa Ettinger
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:01 AM
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Adler bashing,,,,,?Re: Humble Potter on OPRAH
>>
>> isn't this like the same old arguments we always have, just
>> positioned a different way? you know, the "i don't consider
>> so and so a potter"
>> arguments, the arguments about the giffin, how many times you
>> should pull up a wall, et alia. what especially makes being a
>> "potter" such noble a profession that we feel we need to pick
>> and chose who's really one. it's obvious i'm not, even though
>> i throw some of my pots.
>>
>> what i can tell you about my favorite slip-cast piece, this
>> one bowl, is that when it's time to tap it out of the bowl i
>> carefully catch it with one hand, put the mold down, cup the
>> bowl and say, "hello! welcome to the world!" if that feeling
>> i get, if that work i'm doing, isn't art, and if making and
>> creating and designing new pieces isn't really art then i
>> don't know what is.
>>
>>
>>
>> alyssa
>> www.alyssaettinger.com, where my slip-cast line is very popular
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> ________________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
>> subscription settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Lesley Anton
Owner, designer, potter
Lesley Anton Handmade Ceramic Lighting
323.934.3463
lesleyanton@mac.com
www.lesleyanton.com
Lois Ruben Aronow on wed 2 may 07
I don't think there are stigmas toward slip casting in a world where the
craftspeople are highly educated about their craft. Case in point: Tom
Spleth and Richard Notkin, who cast, and Kate Malone and Felicity Ayelieff,
who press mold.
There is a grey area which seems to be easily over looked, which is not the
process, per se, but mass production. There are many, many talented makers
who cast high-quality work. Lark has recently published (re-issued?) an
astounding Mold making book that is very intense, and shows that the making
of the old is an art in itself. But once the work is designed, the
prototype made, the master mold produced, the tasks involved are pouring and
cleaning - which, in any other industry would be called "finishing work".
As for marketing, that's a whole other thing. I don't have a degree, and I
know that there are many teachers here far more articulate and aware than I
am, and I will pass on the subject of if it gets taught or not and why to
them.
In my own career, I went to Film School - one of the best in the country -
NYU/Tisch. It's a legendary place where you could learn how to craft a
brilliant film from beginning to end. A place where dreams are made. The
one thing sorely lacking, at least when I was there, is no one taught the
business of the film industry. No one taught you how to market a film or
sell a film or pitch a film. For that you went to USC, where you learned to
make crappy films and sell them for millions of $$$. I don't really have a
point, except that the two - marketing and making - are rarely taught
together.
...Lo
Who knows that if we blew glass, the satanic name would be Dale Chihuly
**********
Lois Aronow Ceramics
Brooklyn, NY
www.loisaronow.com
www.craftsofthedamned.blogspot.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Lesley Anton
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:56 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Adler - ceramics marketing to our college students
>
> Lois, and Lezlie,
>
> I think the main point here is really just about the
> interpretation of what JA claimed on this now infamous Oprah episode.
> Since Lezlie was kind enough to post the actual interview, we
> can see that JA never claimed to throw any of his current
> pieces. ..it's in the interview plain and clear.
>
> I just wish young ceramics students were taught a bit more
> about marketing their work in college - perhaps how to slip
> cast (probably all you educators out there teach that now but
> not back in the 80's when I was in school) There are such
> few ways for potters or
> ceramicists to make a more than comfortable living at doing their
> art. Gallery work - teaching - perhaps owning a shop that
> sells gobs and gobs of pots a week, or trecking to 4 rain soaked craft
> fairs a month. Now in my mid 40's I am plain exhausted. The love
> of making ceramics fades a bit when trying to pay the bills
> when you can't stand up straight from throwing so much.
>
> For all of those in education - are there trends toward
> marketing now? Are the stigmas attached to slip casting
> still attached in the
> college environment? I totally agree with the fact that students
> should always learn how to do all the basics and do them well
> but I really felt limited as I was shoved out of college
> fairly unprepared for the real world. Talented artists
> shouldn't always have to be starving ....especially in a
> field where their wares are so tangible for humans - vessels
> of any form should be the most marketable thing in the world.
>
> What are all of your thoughts on that?
>
> Thanks
> Lesley Anton
>
>
>
> On May 1, 2007, at 5:22 AM, Lois Ruben Aronow wrote:
>
> > I would say it is different, in the sense that WHO makes
> the work is
> > different than HOW the work is made.
> >
> > Just my opinion: If you design the work and have it mass produced
> > anywhere, not just overseas, you are a designer - and
> there's nothing
> > wrong with being a designer.
> >
> > If you design the work, and, either make it yourself or personally
> > oversee the making (and quality) of that work, you are a
> designer AND
> > a potter, regardless if the work is slip cast, thrown, hand built.
> >
> > If you design the work and have it slip cast, mass produced
> and then
> > promote it as being "hand thrown", you are a either a liar and a pr
> > wiz.
> >
> > ..Lo
> > Who is well aware Anna Sui doesn't sew the dresses, or even
> claim to.
> >
> >
> > *********
> > Lois Aronow Ceramics
> > Brooklyn, NY
> >
> >
> > www.loisaronow.com
> > www.craftsofthedamned.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf
> Of Alyssa
> >> Ettinger
> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:01 AM
> >> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> >> Subject: Re: Adler bashing,,,,,?Re: Humble Potter on OPRAH
> >>
> >> isn't this like the same old arguments we always have, just
> >> positioned a different way? you know, the "i don't
> consider so and so
> >> a potter"
> >> arguments, the arguments about the giffin, how many times
> you should
> >> pull up a wall, et alia. what especially makes being a
> "potter" such
> >> noble a profession that we feel we need to pick and chose who's
> >> really one. it's obvious i'm not, even though i throw some of my
> >> pots.
> >>
> >> what i can tell you about my favorite slip-cast piece,
> this one bowl,
> >> is that when it's time to tap it out of the bowl i
> carefully catch it
> >> with one hand, put the mold down, cup the bowl and say, "hello!
> >> welcome to the world!" if that feeling i get, if that work
> i'm doing,
> >> isn't art, and if making and creating and designing new
> pieces isn't
> >> really art then i don't know what is.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> alyssa
> >> www.alyssaettinger.com, where my slip-cast line is very popular
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> ________________
> >> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >>
> >> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> >> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >>
> >> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > ________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>
> Lesley Anton
> Owner, designer, potter
> Lesley Anton Handmade Ceramic Lighting
> 323.934.3463
> lesleyanton@mac.com
> www.lesleyanton.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
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