ANT KAR on fri 12 sep 97
I have been approached to instruct a figurative sculpture class at the
local senior citizen center. I was wondering if anyone had an idea of how
much to charge and how long of a class it should be? I was told that there
would be around 8-9 people interested in the class, it could either be one
or two days per week. They also said that they would be charged for clay,
but I don't know if it would be better for me to purchase the clay and
include it in the fee for the class so that I would be sure that it was the
correct clay. They would want the class to run for 6-8 weeks.
I was thinking of offering to teach the class for 6 weeks, 1 1-/2 to 2
hrs./day, one day a week, including 10Lbs of clay per person, for $60.00.
I would teach at the center, but have to transport the finished pieces to
my house for firing. I also was going to specify that there would have to
be a minimum of 6 and a maximum of 12 people in the class in order to have
a good sized class and be able to give individualized attention.
Does this sound like I am on the right track? It is my 1st attempt at
something like this and am not sure what to charge, etc. Any ideas would
be helpful.
TIA, Karen
Wendy Hampton on sun 14 sep 97
Most people around here charge $90 - $100 and that includes 25 lbs of clay
and firing. Some people require the students to buy the clay from them and
charge a surcharge to cover firing.
Wendy from Bainbridge Island WA
ANT KAR on sat 20 sep 97
I want to thank everyone who responded to my post questioning workshop
fees for a figurative sculpture class. Most thought I was going to charge
too little. Just to let you all know, the director of the center that was
going to hold the workshop told me that my fee of $60/person was TOO HIGH!!
She said that they could get a retired man to teach the 6 week workshop
for $30/person. I should have told her that I'D be interested in ATTENDING
that class at that price!
Thanks again, Karen
2x4 on sun 21 sep 97
ANT KAR wrote:
>
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> I want to thank everyone who responded to my post questioning workshop
> fees for a figurative sculpture class. Most thought I was going to charge
> too little. Just to let you all know, the director of the center that was
> going to hold the workshop told me that my fee of $60/person was TOO HIGH!!
> She said that they could get a retired man to teach the 6 week workshop
> for $30/person. I should have told her that I'D be interested in ATTENDING
> that class at that price!
>
> Thanks again, Karen
I take figureative sculpture classes any chance I get. The cheapest I
have found is $97.00 for 8 weeks including the model. The most
expensive are $500 for one week of 8 hours a day. One class I have
taken recently was for $167 for 10 weeks including the model. I missed
the original message, but as you can see, $60/person is totally
reasonable and a bargin. Nancy
Joyce Lee on sat 3 feb 01
Finally entered my skull that I walk and talk two paths when thinking of
fees for workshops, as well as giving my work to charity. I'm not at all
pleased either. In the first place, the very few times I've been asked
to contribute a pot I was so thrilled that I practically fell over
myself getting the pot into the hands of those requesting it ... found
out there would be a picture in the local newspaper and ran back to
brush my hair all aflutter ... but still broke records getting into
town. I felt that I was being honored and was tickled to my crinkly toes
that ANYBODY would ask for one of my pots ... especially proud to be
highlighted among "other artists'" work.
That one isn't so unusual, I guess, if you're fairly new to pottery and
KNOW in your heart of hearts that you're not an artist! Workshops,
however, are a different matter. I've sometimes led educational
workshops round and about the west ... always asked and received a
healthy fee plus expenses WITHOUT hesitation.... no soul-searching
involved. And yet when asked several times to do some work with
"creativity after retirement," I (also without hesitation) turned down
the offer of a fee (which was minimal, anyway). WHY???? True, the
groups asking had little money in their coffers but the participants
themselves were far from penniless ... WHY then did it not feel right
to accept payment? No doubt that I respect artists/craftspersons and
their work. And I clearly respect myself. (Don't get in a dander....
saying that I'm not an artist is NOT disrespecting myself... just
honesty.) Only pondering. Maybe you have an answer.
Joyce
In the Mojave gearing my soul up to clear and clean the studio tomorrow
for an Art League tour next week. Good idea. Tour to see where we each
work. Some have elaborate studios; others, a coffeetable maybe; my
mentee Dorie has a desk in the laundry room. Looking forward to it....
but not to cleaning.
Jeremy/Bonnie Hellman on sun 4 feb 01
Hi Joyce,
Interesting posting here. I would say that you are qualified to give
tallks/workshops in ANY subject that someone thinks you have something to
say that others should hear. You have not mis-represented yourself or your
qualifications in any way. You are entitled to be paid. You may choose NOT
to accept payment from any non-profit organization you wish to support--
that's your choice. But I would expect them to offer to pay you whatever
they customarily pay.
I've seen your work and "spoken" to you on the phone, in person and in
email. I KNOW you have have worthwhile opinions and experiences that others
can learn from.
It is rare that you would be asked to give a talk or workshop where the
person who asks you doesn't have a good idea what you're going to say.
"Creativity After Retirement" is as valid a topic as any, and you've
certainly been an advocate for encouraging creativity in older people. We
know that you may not have a formal academic degree in the subject, and you
are not representing that you've published papers in professional journal on
the subject. Truth be told, I'd put my money on a bet that your talk will be
more interesting and influence more people than someone with formal academic
credentials on the subject.
So perhaps your hesitation to accept a fee for your thoughts on creativity
after retirement is related to lack of "professional experience or degrees".
However I know that you are a thoughtful person, and have talked with MANY
others about this subject, and I'd be interested in hearing what you have to
say.
BTW my husband retired as a manager at Westinghouse in 1997 (engineering
background) at age 51, and has done some of his most creative work since
then-- both in the professional arena doing things similar to the work he
did at Westinghouse, and in an entirely different area-- he wrote 3 mystery
novels. Alas, he has not been able to get them published, despite their
being quite good, and better than many that get published.
My general thought as a CPA and business advisor is that people value what
they pay for, and it is important to be paid for your time, just so others
value it.
Bonnie
> Finally entered my skull that I walk and talk two paths when thinking of
> fees for workshops, as well as giving my work to charity. I'm not at all
> pleased either. In the first place, the very few times I've been asked
> to contribute a pot I was so thrilled that I practically fell over
> myself getting the pot into the hands of those requesting it ... found
> out there would be a picture in the local newspaper and ran back to
> brush my hair all aflutter ... but still broke records getting into
> town. I felt that I was being honored and was tickled to my crinkly toes
> that ANYBODY would ask for one of my pots ... especially proud to be
> highlighted among "other artists'" work.
>
> That one isn't so unusual, I guess, if you're fairly new to pottery and
> KNOW in your heart of hearts that you're not an artist! Workshops,
> however, are a different matter. I've sometimes led educational
> workshops round and about the west ... always asked and received a
> healthy fee plus expenses WITHOUT hesitation.... no soul-searching
> involved. And yet when asked several times to do some work with
> "creativity after retirement," I (also without hesitation) turned down
> the offer of a fee (which was minimal, anyway). WHY???? True, the
> groups asking had little money in their coffers but the participants
> themselves were far from penniless ... WHY then did it not feel right
> to accept payment? No doubt that I respect artists/craftspersons and
> their work. And I clearly respect myself. (Don't get in a dander....
> saying that I'm not an artist is NOT disrespecting myself... just
> honesty.) Only pondering. Maybe you have an answer.
>
> Joyce
> In the Mojave gearing my soul up to clear and clean the studio tomorrow
> for an Art League tour next week. Good idea. Tour to see where we each
> work. Some have elaborate studios; others, a coffeetable maybe; my
> mentee Dorie has a desk in the laundry room. Looking forward to it....
> but not to cleaning.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
clennell on sun 4 feb 01
Dear Deputy: We are also suckers for giving pots away to good
causes. We kept track last year - $2000. It has probably exceeded
that amount some years. Now, our thoughts have always been oh,
they're just pots not real money. then we started to notice the ones
that were asking had never before been in our shop, spent some money
or even looked at our wares. We now limit our gifts to our patrons or
our personal heartfelt charities. the good patrons usually ask
sheepishly for a donation (pot) and then return later and spend far
in excess of our gift.
As for the workshop fee I liked Junkyard Dawgs analogy of the potter
being the wholesaler. If you charge for your services the workshop
committee will do their utmost to promote it, so that they cover
expenses and turn a profit. Charge nothing and see how much effort
goes into making your workshop a success.
I think we as potters should live our lives generously, but I can
think of no other group that seems to be asked for freebies more than
the arts community. We are usually asked to donate to an auction at
which we can't afford a seat. the classy group makes sure the potter
gets a free ticket and a place of honour.
cheers,
tony
P.S glad to hear of the white whale sighting on a Florida beach.
--
Sour Cherry Pottery
Tony and Sheila Clennell
4545 King Street, Beamsville
Ontario, Canada L0R 1B1
http://WWW.sourcherrypottery.com
Earl Brunner on sun 4 feb 01
Yeah,
Another school invited me to spend the day at their school demonstrating
and doing a little hands on with the kids. (They wanted 200 kids to be
able to try the wheel and couldn't understand why I thought it was
impractical for a 5 hour day on one wheel...). By the way, I furnished
the wheel. They wanted all my demonstration pots when I was done (even
though it was my clay and my glaze and my kiln).
Never got a thank you, but did get a "special" invitation to a
fundraiser dinner for the school, they wanted $100.00 per plate, and
that wasn't for one of my plates or $100.00 to me. They wanted my
hundred dollars.
yeah, right.
clennell wrote:
> Dear Deputy: We are also suckers for giving pots away to good
> causes. We kept track last year - $2000. It has probably exceeded
> that amount some years. Now, our thoughts have always been oh,
> they're just pots not real money. then we started to notice the ones
> that were asking had never before been in our shop, spent some money
> or even looked at our wares. We now limit our gifts to our patrons or
> our personal heartfelt charities. the good patrons usually ask
> sheepishly for a donation (pot) and then return later and spend far
> in excess of our gift.
> As for the workshop fee I liked Junkyard Dawgs analogy of the potter
> being the wholesaler. If you charge for your services the workshop
> committee will do their utmost to promote it, so that they cover
> expenses and turn a profit. Charge nothing and see how much effort
> goes into making your workshop a success.
> I think we as potters should live our lives generously, but I can
> think of no other group that seems to be asked for freebies more than
> the arts community. We are usually asked to donate to an auction at
> which we can't afford a seat. the classy group makes sure the potter
> gets a free ticket and a place of honour.
> cheers,
> tony
> P.S glad to hear of the white whale sighting on a Florida beach.
>
>
>
> --
> Sour Cherry Pottery
>
> Tony and Sheila Clennell
> 4545 King Street, Beamsville
> Ontario, Canada L0R 1B1
>
> http://WWW.sourcherrypottery.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
dayton j grant on mon 5 feb 01
potters will always hold a place of honor (maybe even magic)and always
have ... the money afforded us is secondary and is really a reflection of
the rich folks around us, their intelligence , and what they value,it
seems that through the industrial revolution our ranks were greatly
diminished , but we will always come back making "golden things " out of
apparently nothing ,like our old friend rumplestillskin
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JRodgers on mon 30 jul 12
I'm curious as to how workshop fees are determined. Is there a formula?
Is this just worked out over time? Is it anything the traffic will bear?
What's fair? What's over-charging? Should it be hands on or
demonstration. What fee schedule would one apply on the one versus the
other. I've dozens of questions and answers to none.
Now that I have a studio in a public space - accessible by the public, I
would like to do a workshop, show my stuff as it were and teach what I
have learned over the years, most especially in the world of mold making
and slip casting. Any guidance, assistance, direction, experiences in
these matters of running a workshop would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
John
tony clennell on mon 30 jul 12
John: I changed my workshop fees many years ago after a workshop at
Lansing Potters Guild. I drove in to the parking lot in my 1994 Toyota
P/U. The parking lot was full of Benz, BMW's, Volvo Cross Country's,
Cadillacs and other high end vehicles. Yes, Kelly Savino was there in
her old van with the door smashed in but by and large the parking lot
was high end. I thought to myself what is wrong with this scene? I am
the weekend rock star and i am rather poor. I will never have the
money to drive one of these dream cars.
I then did a workshop at Metchosin and Robin "Grass" Hopper told me I
was the best man he had ever had in the clay pits and those that
preceded me are big names. He told me I should charge $1000 a day. I
said i can never do that. I got a call shortly thereafter and the guy
asked me my workshop fee. I said "nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnine
hundred dollars a day. Say that with a stutter. He said" That sounds
like a deal!. I stand by that fee to this day. I work hard for it. I
do a good job and dedicate 5 days at least with travel to a 2 day
workshop. Most times the guild makes money on my workshop over and
above my fee.
I can't even think about the $350 a day I charged at Lansing.
If you have a pension, a working spouse and just want to do some
traveling then charge travel, room and board. For those of us that
actually walk the walk coming home with a couple of thousand is not a
big deal.The car, the house, the insurance, the phone, the electric,
the heat, the groceries will make short work of it.
All the best,
Tony
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 6:01 PM, JRodgers wrote:
> I'm curious as to how workshop fees are determined. Is there a formula?
> Is this just worked out over time? Is it anything the traffic will bear?
> What's fair? What's over-charging? Should it be hands on or
> demonstration. What fee schedule would one apply on the one versus the
> other. I've dozens of questions and answers to none.
>
> Now that I have a studio in a public space - accessible by the public, I
> would like to do a workshop, show my stuff as it were and teach what I
> have learned over the years, most especially in the world of mold making
> and slip casting. Any guidance, assistance, direction, experiences in
> these matters of running a workshop would be most appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
--
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Sumi von Dassow on mon 30 jul 12
John
Generally where I do workshops we try to set the fee so that it will
cover a reasonable hourly rate for the instructor based on the number of
students expected. Not enough students to make the hourly rate means the
workshop will be canceled; more students than the minimum means the
facility makes a bit of money.
Sumi
> I'm curious as to how workshop fees are determined. Is there a formula?
> Is this just worked out over time? Is it anything the traffic will bear?
> What's fair? What's over-charging? Should it be hands on or
> demonstration. What fee schedule would one apply on the one versus the
> other. I've dozens of questions and answers to none.
>
> Now that I have a studio in a public space - accessible by the public, I
> would like to do a workshop, show my stuff as it were and teach what I
> have learned over the years, most especially in the world of mold making
> and slip casting. Any guidance, assistance, direction, experiences in
> these matters of running a workshop would be most appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
Paul Lewing on mon 30 jul 12
On Jul 30, 2012, at 3:01 PM, JRodgers wrote:
I'm curious as to how workshop fees are determined. Is there a formula?
Is this just worked out over time? Is it anything the traffic will bear?
What's fair? What's over-charging? Should it be hands on or
demonstration. What fee schedule would one apply on the one versus the
other. I've dozens of questions and answers to none.
It's really hard to get information about this subject because most
people won't tell you that information.
One of the strange things about this is that the more famous the
venue, the worse they pay the instructors. I have a set fee that I
try to get for workshops (which I'll get to) but no really well known
place pays that much. Another rule of thumb is that places that
sponsor a lot of workshops, particularly if the offer them in more
than one medium, tend to have a set fee they pay everybody. Most
people, me included, will take that fee if it's a place I really want
to go, or a place that will look really good on my resume. If you
want to get a fee that you set that's higher than that, colleges, clay
suppliers or clay groups are better bets. In those cases, you
negotiate and take what you can get. I will sometimes take less for a
workshop also if it's someplace I really want to go. In my case, I've
ben working for about 35 years to teach in all 50 states, so if you
want me to come to Iowa, West Virginia or Maine (the only 3 states I
have left) I'll make you a really good deal.
In any case, whatever fee you can negotiate will always include travel
and room and board. Most of the time this will mean being put up in a
private home for a short workshop, but it's often quite and imposition
on the host ( who often is not an employee of the venue but a
committed supporter of it) for a week long workshop, so if the venue
doesn't have housing, as most of the really big name places do, it
will be a motel. I always offer to stay in a home, because not only
does it save the venue money, thus making it easier for them to fill
the workshop, but I actually prefer it. If the place doesn't have a
dining hall, meals will usually be restaurants or private homes.
Occasionally a place will tell you to eat wherever you want and submit
receipts, but most places host you better than that.
What people charge for workshops if they get to determine the fee
varies enormously. People who are more famous or teach something that
is really in demand as a subject can charge more than people who are
less well known or are offering something more specialized. I can't
tell you what anyone but me charges, but I ask $900 for a 2-day
workshop, $1200 for 3 days, or $1500 for 5. That's a little unusual.
Most people have a set fee per day, no matter how many days. I figure
the longer the workshop, the less relative disruption it is to my
studio time, so I do a sliding scale.
As far as what to charge people for a workshop you're offering in your
own studio, That varies enormously as well. The best place to look
for what different venues are charging for workshops of various
durations and subjects is the Ceramics Monthly workshop listings
online (I really wish they still put that in the magazine, but oh
well). It makes a huge difference whether the venue is a public
school, a non-profit, or a for-profit place. Also keep in mind that
in the case of the big name craft schools, the fee may include room
and board. I often don't know what venues are charging for my
workshops, but I've had it be from nothing to almost $1000. Remember
that if you host the workshop yourself, you won't have the travel or
room and board expenses that a school would have, but you'll be doing
just as much prep, plus all the advertising and cleanup. I'm thinking
I'll offer a china painting workshop in my studio in October and I
think I'm going to charge $200 or $250 which is probably about average
for a 3-day workshop.
I hope this helps.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
Paul Lewing on tue 31 jul 12
On Jul 31, 2012, at 10:25 AM, mel jacobson wrote:
i have always been of the opinion that
fees and charges are between the vendor and
the artist/teacher. blabbing how much you make
is a pain in the ass.
Well, Mel, I have to disagree with you to some extent. In the case of
the places that pay everybody the same, they will tell anyone what
that fee is and you can take it or leave it. I know that's not the
case you were envisioning, because there was no bargaining there. And
I will tell anybody who asks what I normally ask for a workshop fee;
it's even on the prospectus I send out when anyone asks about one of
my workshops. But as I said in my post, I don't always get that and
I'm willing to negotiate with a venue if I want to go there. But you
notice I never said how much I'd negotiate down to, and I'd never tell
you what I got from a particular venue.
But that's not what we're talking about here. John asked for numbers
because he needs numbers. He doesn't want to look like a fool for
asking $100 a day and he doesn't want to look like a fool for asking
$1500 a day. He wants to know the range. Clayart's all about telling
people what they want to know. It's not exactly blabbing about how
much I make. And the post from the person who told us what people who
came to his school to talk about bullying or their books was
interesting but didn't tell John what he needed to know. He'd have
gotten nowhere if he'd asked for that.
Even other art forms don't tell you what he needs to know. A few
years back I got friendly enough with a glass painter who did a lot of
workshops and was about at the level of fame I think I am (not a star
but with some reputation). I was astounded to find out he charged
about double what I did and he was right in line with what other glass
painting teachers were asking. Then I got involved in the world of
china painting which has its own complete world of schools, workshops,
teachers, conventions, etc. I never get asked to teach in those
schools because my regular fees are about double what most china
painting teachers get. My regular fees are about the same as the
biggest stars in that world. So only finding out what other ceramic
art teachers at various stages of their careers make will tell John
what he needs to know.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
Clay art on tue 31 jul 12
John, I am also fairly new in pursuing workshops. I did workshops for =3D
many
years before, always by invitation and mostly offered an honorarium. I
always saw it as a "complimentary invitation" and not as business. It =3D
is
only lately that I started thinking that I may have something more to =3D
offer,
also to potters a little further away from home. So I started to write =3D
and
send proposals, but it is kind of embarrassing: what is my contribution
worth? Are there really people out there that would like to learn from =3D
me
and what if they would like to have me, but cannot afford to have me?
So I decided to throw that ball into the hands of the hosts. Room, board =
=3D
and
travel + $$$ -???. I also suggest that they host a show. Workshop =3D
organizers
know how much they can afford to gamble or not to gamble with. They know =
=3D
how
the economy of their area is thriving or dying and they know their
customers. Most institutions have a set workshop fee for their =3D
attendees. It
is logic that they work that out in their overall budget. That means =3D
that
the workshop presenter is part of their expenses and you have to fit =3D
into
those expenses. After all salaries and expenses differ from state to =3D
state
in anyway.
I know there are some that will take advantage of this approach, but =3D
that
will be their problem. If they do underpay because they are dishonest =3D
they
are not worth working with in anyway, even if they do pay you what you
want, but cut corners in other ways. Such an attitude will catch up =3D
with
them somewhere in future. So I leave it up to them to make me an offer. =3D
I
can always reject it if it is really bad.
My reasoning is that I get an opportunity to let more people know what I =
=3D
can
offer and hope that the word of mouth will take it further. Feedback =3D
with
messages like " students loved it" and "many said it was the best =3D
workshop
they ever had and they want to apply what they've learned to their own =3D
work"
( was comments that I got after Oakton Community College last week!) is
music to my ears. I had a chance to meet new people with fresh =3D
attitudes,
hopefully in an area that I have not been to before and I had a great
opportunity to live my passion. I know it sounds very romantic and yes I
have limited bills to pay in comparison to others, but I am also not =3D
na=3DEFve.
There is no way that you can build a business if you charge high fees =3D
from
day one,( particularly if you are unknown like me!) because no one will
invite you to teach. In an ideal situation I offer them a proposal and =3D
I do
not over charge, but on the flipside; they do not underpay. Rome is not
build in one day!=3D20
Attendees often times want to buy my work (which is a nice way to =3D
increase
one's income from the workshop), so I bring work for them to learn from =3D
and
to buy. I made that into a game. I make my price range known and then =3D
let
them buy my pots, by paying what they think the pot is worth. I do not =3D
see
what they pay for what pot, but every time I open the container after =3D
the
workshop, I am humbled and so pleasantly surprised by what potters are
willing to pay for my work, more so because potters know what goes into =3D
a
pot! I also have the satisfaction that someone that can maybe not afford
that much, also had an opportunity to get something they can afford, =3D
without
being embarrassed by what they buy or pay. I rely on their integrity, =3D
which
I think is another wonderful way to build on relationships.=3D20
Someone ( I think it was Paul) said people will not tell you that
information. I think it has to do with the very points I just mentioned
above. People like Sumi, Tony and Paul are old hands at this. They are
confident in what they have to offer and they are good at offering that. =
=3D
Me
and you just got our feet wet, so I think without being overly humble, =3D
we
should allow the market to put a "price tag" on us. As the demand grows, =
=3D
the
price will also grow and you will soon know where you fit in.
I hope this helps too.......... and while I am at it........anyone out =3D
there
interested in receiving a porcelain workshop proposal from me? :-D.....
Best wishes.=3D20
Antoinette Badenhorst
www.porcelainbyAntoinette.com=3D20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of JRodgers
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:02 PM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Workshop fees
I'm curious as to how workshop fees are determined. Is there a formula?
Is this just worked out over time? Is it anything the traffic will bear?
What's fair? What's over-charging? Should it be hands on or =3D
demonstration.
What fee schedule would one apply on the one versus the other. I've =3D
dozens
of questions and answers to none.
Now that I have a studio in a public space - accessible by the public, I
would like to do a workshop, show my stuff as it were and teach what I =3D
have
learned over the years, most especially in the world of mold making and =3D
slip
casting. Any guidance, assistance, direction, experiences in these =3D
matters
of running a workshop would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
John
John Post on tue 31 jul 12
At my elementary school we had a guy give a presentation on bullying.
1 hour to the little kids, one hour to the big kids. He charged $1600.
Authors who come and talk about their books and illustrations to the
kids often charge $2000 for a day.
If one school principal likes you, the recommend you to their friends
and you go from school to school in one district before you fly back
home a few days later. It looks like a good gig.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
http://www.johnpost.us
Follow me on Twitter
https://twitter.com/UCSArtTeacher
> I can't even think about the $350 a day I charged at Lansing.
mel jacobson on tue 31 jul 12
i have always been of the opinion that
fees and charges are between the vendor and
the artist/teacher. blabbing how much you make
is a pain in the ass.
i do not, or will not publish private negotiations.
i do feel that `no crowd, no pay`is proper.
if you cannot get enough folks to attend, you will
get shorted.
just my opinion.
mel
i also promise if anyone is unhappy with my workshop
i give them their fee back.
it has never happened....thank goodness.
workshops are very hard work.
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart page below:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
http://www.21stcenturykilns.com/
JRodgers on tue 31 jul 12
Good opinion!
John
On 7/31/2012 12:25 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> just my opinion.
Ben Morrison on tue 31 jul 12
I have been wanting to attend a hand building workshop from a fairly famous=
=3D
Chinese potter who uses ancient Chinese techniques to make hand built pots=
=3D
. The fees for her workshop are in the range you first mentioned 1500 a wee=
=3D
k if I remember right. I was trying to get her in for a workshop to a schoo=
=3D
l I used to be a part of and they wouldn't go for her fees. Then that same =
=3D
year, they paid just over 3,000 for a Japanese man to come for two weeks. H=
=3D
e is a wood fire guru and they are wood fire fanatics, so it makes sense in=
=3D
that respect. =3D0A=3D0AIf you look at it from a median wage perspective. =
To b=3D
e above the poverty line they need to make a decent wage. Median wage in th=
=3D
e US is about 45,000. Which means that a person would have to make about 85=
=3D
0 for a week before taxes to be in the middle somewhere. So someone making =
=3D
1500 a week is 78,000 a year, which is a nice wage. Now obviously they don'=
=3D
t make that kind of money week in and week out. My guess is they charge suc=
=3D
h high rates to smooth out the flat spots in their revenue stream. I suppos=
=3D
e if you can get away with it, then fine, but I would be more inclined resp=
=3D
ect my clients and charge a better price.=3D0A=3D0A=3D0AI still haven't tak=
en tha=3D
t workshop yet.=3D0A=3D0A-Ben=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A_______________________________=
_=3D0A From:=3D
Paul Lewing =3D0ATo: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG =3D0AS=
ent:=3D
Monday, July 30, 2012 7:10 PM=3D0ASubject: Re: Workshop fees=3D0A =3D0AOn =
Jul 30=3D
, 2012, at 3:01 PM, JRodgers wrote:=3D0A=3D0AI'm curious as to how workshop=
fee=3D
s are determined. Is there a formula?=3D0AIs this just worked out over time=
? =3D
Is it anything the traffic will bear?=3D0AWhat's fair? What's over-charging=
? =3D
Should it be hands on or=3D0Ademonstration. What fee schedule would one app=
ly=3D
on the one versus the=3D0Aother. I've dozens of questions and answers to n=
on=3D
e.=3D0A=3D0AIt's really hard to get information about this subject because =
most=3D
=3D0Apeople won't tell you that information.=3D0A=3D0AOne of the strange th=
ings a=3D
bout this is that the more famous the=3D0Avenue, the worse they pay the ins=
tr=3D
uctors.=3DA0 I have a set fee that I=3D0Atry to get for workshops (which I'=
ll g=3D
et to) but no really well known=3D0Aplace pays that much.=3DA0 Another rule=
of =3D
thumb is that places that=3D0Asponsor a lot of workshops, particularly if t=
he=3D
offer them in more=3D0Athan one medium, tend to have a set fee they pay ev=
er=3D
ybody.=3DA0 Most=3D0Apeople, me included, will take that fee if it's a plac=
e I =3D
really want=3D0Ato go, or a place that will look really good on my resume.=
=3DA0=3D
If you=3D0Awant to get a fee that you set that's higher than that, college=
s,=3D
clay=3D0Asuppliers or clay groups are better bets.=3DA0 In those cases, yo=
u=3D0A=3D
negotiate and take what you can get.=3DA0 I will sometimes take less for a=
=3D0A=3D
workshop also if it's someplace I really want to go.=3DA0 In my case, I've=
=3D0A=3D
ben working for about 35 years to teach in all 50 states, so if you=3D0Awan=
t =3D
me to come to Iowa, West Virginia or Maine (the only 3 states I=3D0Ahave le=
ft=3D
) I'll make you a really good deal.=3D0A=3D0AIn any case, whatever fee you =
can =3D
negotiate will always include travel=3D0Aand room and board.=3DA0 Most of t=
he t=3D
ime this will mean being put up in a=3D0Aprivate home for a short workshop,=
b=3D
ut it's often quite and imposition=3D0Aon the host ( who often is not an em=
pl=3D
oyee of the venue but a=3D0Acommitted supporter of it) for a week long work=
sh=3D
op, so if the venue=3D0Adoesn't have housing, as most of the really big nam=
e =3D
places do, it=3D0Awill be a motel.=3DA0 I always offer to stay in a home, b=
ecau=3D
se not only=3D0Adoes it save the venue money, thus making it easier for the=
m =3D
to fill=3D0Athe workshop, but I actually prefer it.=3DA0 If the place doesn=
't h=3D
ave a=3D0Adining hall, meals will usually be restaurants or private homes.=
=3D0A=3D
Occasionally a place will tell you to eat wherever you want and submit=3D0A=
re=3D
ceipts, but most places host you better than that.=3D0A=3D0AWhat people cha=
rge =3D
for workshops if they get to determine the fee=3D0Avaries enormously.=3DA0 =
Peop=3D
le who are more famous or teach something that=3D0Ais really in demand as a=
s=3D
ubject can charge more than people who are=3D0Aless well known or are offer=
in=3D
g something more specialized.=3DA0 I can't=3D0Atell you what anyone but me =
char=3D
ges, but I ask $900 for a 2-day=3D0Aworkshop, $1200 for 3 days, or $1500 fo=
r =3D
5.=3DA0 That's a little unusual.=3D0AMost people have a set fee per day, no=
mat=3D
ter how many days.=3DA0 I figure=3D0Athe longer the workshop, the less rela=
tive=3D
disruption it is to my=3D0Astudio time, so I do a sliding scale.=3D0A=3D0A=
As far=3D
as what to charge people for a workshop you're offering in your=3D0Aown st=
ud=3D
io, That varies enormously as well.=3DA0 The best place to look=3D0Afor wha=
t di=3D
fferent venues are charging for workshops of various=3D0Adurations and subj=
ec=3D
ts is the Ceramics Monthly workshop listings=3D0Aonline (I really wish they=
s=3D
till put that in the magazine, but oh=3D0Awell).=3DA0 It makes a huge diffe=
renc=3D
e whether the venue is a public=3D0Aschool, a non-profit, or a for-profit p=
la=3D
ce.=3DA0 Also keep in mind that=3D0Ain the case of the big name craft schoo=
ls, =3D
the fee may include room=3D0Aand board.=3DA0 I often don't know what venues=
are=3D
charging for my=3D0Aworkshops, but I've had it be from nothing to almost $=
10=3D
00.=3DA0 Remember=3D0Athat if you host the workshop yourself, you won't hav=
e th=3D
e travel or=3D0Aroom and board expenses that a school would have, but you'l=
l =3D
be doing=3D0Ajust as much prep, plus all the advertising and cleanup.=3DA0 =
I'm =3D
thinking=3D0AI'll offer a china painting workshop in my studio in October a=
nd=3D
I=3D0Athink I'm going to charge $200 or $250 which is probably about avera=
ge=3D
=3D0Afor a 3-day workshop.=3D0A=3D0AI hope this helps.=3D0APaul Lewing=3D0A=
www.paulle=3D
wingtile.com=3D0Awww.paullewingart.com
Lis Allison on wed 1 aug 12
On July 31, 2012, Ben Morrison wrote:
>....Now
> obviously they don't make that kind of money week in and week out. My
> guess is they charge such high rates to smooth out the flat spots in
> their revenue stream.
Don't forget, a one-week workshop is probably 2-3 weeks of work.
Lis
--
Elisabeth Allison
Pine Ridge Studio
website: www.pine-ridge.ca
Pottery blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
Garden blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.com
John Britt on wed 1 aug 12
Nice post Paul!
I think the fees range from $300 a day to $1,500.
One day at a University is different than a weekend. Some have set rates=3D=
20=3D
they pay. A three hour demo that is near your home is different than one=3D=
20=3D
2,000 miles away.
Somewhere between $200 - $500 a day is pretty standard in my experience.
johnbrittpottery@gmail.com
Paul Lewing on wed 1 aug 12
On Aug 1, 2012, at 8:28 AM, John Britt wrote:
Somewhere between $200 - $500 a day is pretty standard in my experience.
I think you're about right. And you're also right that the duration
and the location make a huge difference. You need to keep in mind
that you need at least one day of preparation, maybe two depending on
what you're doing, and maybe half a day after to unpack and get back,
unpack, put everything away and deal with all the things that piled up
while you were gone. And if it's not in your home town, there's two
days of travel. So a 1-day workshop can take 4 1/2 days, and a 5-day
workshop might take as much as 8.
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
www.paullewingart.com
tony clennell on wed 1 aug 12
Those that are getting work doing workshops are charging the right
fees. In this bizz word gets out who does a good workshop. If it is
Mickey Mouse you have a short career as a traveling troubadour. t
--
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
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