Angela Davis on tue 15 may 07
Hello list, looks like Kim is just trying to sell us his $30 article.
This teaser was all I could glean from his posted web addresses.
Angela Davis
At that rate I don't need to know what paper leaves behind in my clay
and how it effects the end product.
"Abstract
Paper composite porcelain is widely used to produce artistic objects in
ceramic art. The aim of this study is to characterise the microstructure and
chemical compositions of paper composite porcelain since they determine the
material properties. Interaction between paper filler, paper fibre, and the
porcelain clay body in its fired state were investigated using X-ray
diffraction (XRD) and scanning electron microscopy (SEM) techniques. The
starting materials were kaolin, feldspar, quartz, hybrid copy/print waste
paper, and other waste papers. XRD clearly shows that the paper composite
porcelain bodies in the fired state mainly consist of ?-quartz, mullite,
anorthite and amorphous materials in a complex matrix. In the fired state,
calcite from the waste paper's relict interface to kaolinite from porcelain.
A transformation to anorthite in the microstructure of paper composite
porcelain was indicated. In the microstructure, anorthite tubes were
observed as fibrous structures in their fired state.
if you do not have a User Name and Password, click the "Register to
Purchase" button below to purchase this article.
Price: US $ 30.00"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeoung-Ah Kim"
To:
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: PAPER CLAY/Kim
> Please refer to
>
> Jeoung-Ah, K. (2004) The characterisation of paper composite porcelain in
> a fired state by XRD and SEM. J. Eur. Ceram. Soc., 24 (15-16), 3823-3831.
> ISSN: 0955-2219
> Jeoung-Ah, K. (2006) The characterisation of paper-composite porcelain in
> a green state. J. Eur. Ceram. Soc., 26 (6), 1023-1034. ISSN: 0955-2219
> Kim, J. A. (2006) Paper-composite porcelain: Characterisation of material
> properties and workability from a ceramic art and design perspective."
> Gothenburg: ArtMonitor. ISBN: 91-975911-2-2
>
> Abstract available from the Sciencedirect
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TX0-4CB663B-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2004&_alid=576054491&_rdoc=2&_fmt=summary&_orig=search&_cdi=5576&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=2&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=5b93d4657a1b0a4dbe8f2956cdbb9ee4
>
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TX0-4FK3P9C-4&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2006&_alid=576054491&_rdoc=1&_fmt=summary&_orig=search&_cdi=5576&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=2&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=96e74a4756044657539c33fc7a3be2f0
>
> Or French site
> http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16112611
> http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17542073
>
> Kim
>
> Angela Davis wrote:
> Now that is interesting. Could you give a couple of examples
> of the changes that might occur with the different minerals left
> behind in the clay body?
>
> Angela Davis
>
Craig Clark on wed 16 may 07
I'll be careful with my words now........this whole deal sounds like a
load of self promoting hooey to me. First of all, you deride "ordinary
ceramic magazines or ordinary books", and then you talk about "pure
academic contribution. Gimme a break. Thirty bucks for an obscure paper
written by a self promoting PHD......I think not..
Regards
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Jeoung-Ah Kim wrote:
> Angela,
> Be careful with your word.
>
> I do not have to sell anything.
> My articles and books are copyright by Elsevier. I do not get 1 penny.
>
> These are science journals and book series which are completely different from ordinary ceramic magazines or ordinary books. You get paid when your articles or books are published or sell. But researchers and scientists, we do not get 1 penny. These articles are pure academic contribution.
>
> You can ask to the publisher if you want. There is nothing to hide.
>
> Kim
>
>
> Angela Davis wrote: Hello list, looks like Kim is just trying to sell us his $30 article.
> This teaser was all I could glean from his posted web addresses.
>
> Angela Davis
>
> At that rate I don't need to know what paper leaves behind in my clay
> and how it effects the end product.
>
>
> "Abstract
>
> Paper composite porcelain is widely used to produce artistic objects in
> ceramic art. The aim of this study is to characterise the microstructure and
> chemical compositions of paper composite porcelain since they determine the
> material properties. Interaction between paper filler, paper fibre, and the
> porcelain clay body in its fired state were investigated using X-ray
> diffraction (XRD) and scanning electron microscopy (SEM) techniques. The
> starting materials were kaolin, feldspar, quartz, hybrid copy/print waste
> paper, and other waste papers. XRD clearly shows that the paper composite
> porcelain bodies in the fired state mainly consist of ?-quartz, mullite,
> anorthite and amorphous materials in a complex matrix. In the fired state,
> calcite from the waste paper's relict interface to kaolinite from porcelain.
> A transformation to anorthite in the microstructure of paper composite
> porcelain was indicated. In the microstructure, anorthite tubes were
> observed as fibrous structures in their fired state.
>
> if you do not have a User Name and Password, click the "Register to
> Purchase" button below to purchase this article.
>
> Price: US $ 30.00"
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeoung-Ah Kim"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:53 AM
> Subject: Re: PAPER CLAY/Kim
>
>
>
>> Please refer to
>>
>> Jeoung-Ah, K. (2004) The characterisation of paper composite porcelain in
>> a fired state by XRD and SEM. J. Eur. Ceram. Soc., 24 (15-16), 3823-3831.
>> ISSN: 0955-2219
>> Jeoung-Ah, K. (2006) The characterisation of paper-composite porcelain in
>> a green state. J. Eur. Ceram. Soc., 26 (6), 1023-1034. ISSN: 0955-2219
>> Kim, J. A. (2006) Paper-composite porcelain: Characterisation of material
>> properties and workability from a ceramic art and design perspective."
>> Gothenburg: ArtMonitor. ISBN: 91-975911-2-2
>>
>> Abstract available from the Sciencedirect
>>
>> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TX0-4CB663B-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2004&_alid=576054491&_rdoc=2&_fmt=summary&_orig=search&_cdi=5576&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=2&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=5b93d4657a1b0a4dbe8f2956cdbb9ee4
>>
>>
>> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TX0-4FK3P9C-4&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2006&_alid=576054491&_rdoc=1&_fmt=summary&_orig=search&_cdi=5576&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=2&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=96e74a4756044657539c33fc7a3be2f0
>>
>> Or French site
>> http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16112611
>> http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17542073
>>
>> Kim
>>
>> Angela Davis wrote:
>> Now that is interesting. Could you give a couple of examples
>> of the changes that might occur with the different minerals left
>> behind in the clay body?
>>
>> Angela Davis
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Bonnie Staffel on wed 16 may 07
On reading the abstract attached to this post, seems that the words are =
far
too technical for my non-chemical mind to grasp. However, on thinking =
of
the elements of paper, it is made of wood, and on burning wood turns to =
ash,
and the ash reflects the inorganic materials that it takes up in the =
growing
process. Hence, those would be the elements that would be left in the =
clay
which could alter the composition of the clay. This is what I gather =
from
this subject. However, whether it adds much significance in the final
product would have to be proved by a real chemical analysis. So many
variables occur in clay that it seems like a fruitless search that a =
potter
could put to use. =20
Bonnie Staffel=20
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Jeoung-Ah Kim on wed 16 may 07
Angela,
Be careful with your word.
I do not have to sell anything.
My articles and books are copyright by Elsevier. I do not get 1 penny.
These are science journals and book series which are completely different from ordinary ceramic magazines or ordinary books. You get paid when your articles or books are published or sell. But researchers and scientists, we do not get 1 penny. These articles are pure academic contribution.
You can ask to the publisher if you want. There is nothing to hide.
Kim
Angela Davis wrote: Hello list, looks like Kim is just trying to sell us his $30 article.
This teaser was all I could glean from his posted web addresses.
Angela Davis
At that rate I don't need to know what paper leaves behind in my clay
and how it effects the end product.
"Abstract
Paper composite porcelain is widely used to produce artistic objects in
ceramic art. The aim of this study is to characterise the microstructure and
chemical compositions of paper composite porcelain since they determine the
material properties. Interaction between paper filler, paper fibre, and the
porcelain clay body in its fired state were investigated using X-ray
diffraction (XRD) and scanning electron microscopy (SEM) techniques. The
starting materials were kaolin, feldspar, quartz, hybrid copy/print waste
paper, and other waste papers. XRD clearly shows that the paper composite
porcelain bodies in the fired state mainly consist of ?-quartz, mullite,
anorthite and amorphous materials in a complex matrix. In the fired state,
calcite from the waste paper's relict interface to kaolinite from porcelain.
A transformation to anorthite in the microstructure of paper composite
porcelain was indicated. In the microstructure, anorthite tubes were
observed as fibrous structures in their fired state.
if you do not have a User Name and Password, click the "Register to
Purchase" button below to purchase this article.
Price: US $ 30.00"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeoung-Ah Kim"
To:
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: PAPER CLAY/Kim
> Please refer to
>
> Jeoung-Ah, K. (2004) The characterisation of paper composite porcelain in
> a fired state by XRD and SEM. J. Eur. Ceram. Soc., 24 (15-16), 3823-3831.
> ISSN: 0955-2219
> Jeoung-Ah, K. (2006) The characterisation of paper-composite porcelain in
> a green state. J. Eur. Ceram. Soc., 26 (6), 1023-1034. ISSN: 0955-2219
> Kim, J. A. (2006) Paper-composite porcelain: Characterisation of material
> properties and workability from a ceramic art and design perspective."
> Gothenburg: ArtMonitor. ISBN: 91-975911-2-2
>
> Abstract available from the Sciencedirect
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TX0-4CB663B-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2004&_alid=576054491&_rdoc=2&_fmt=summary&_orig=search&_cdi=5576&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=2&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=5b93d4657a1b0a4dbe8f2956cdbb9ee4
>
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TX0-4FK3P9C-4&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2006&_alid=576054491&_rdoc=1&_fmt=summary&_orig=search&_cdi=5576&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=2&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=96e74a4756044657539c33fc7a3be2f0
>
> Or French site
> http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16112611
> http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17542073
>
> Kim
>
> Angela Davis wrote:
> Now that is interesting. Could you give a couple of examples
> of the changes that might occur with the different minerals left
> behind in the clay body?
>
> Angela Davis
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
---------------------------------
The all-new Yahoo! Mail goes wherever you go - free your email address from your Internet provider.
Taylor Hendrix on thu 17 may 07
This kind of article service is quite common and in no way out of the
ordinary. Mr Kim was just pointing out his research. I'm sure he
thought the abstract was good enough for this group.
Of course, any researcher worth her salt would have several options
for getting this article, some of those options paid for by third
parties. See full text entry below. Elsevier's Science Direct is a
database that offers articles from more than 2000 journals.
The accusation of self promotion is somewhat interesting. Is it his
PhD or his lack of long history on the list which inflames your
distaste for promotion? I hope you let the rest of us continue our
self promotion on the list! he he.
FYI, information from Ulrich's Periodical Directory 2007.
Journal of the European Ceramic Society. Refereed Serial. Text in
English. Started 1985. 16/yr. Cost is USD 3,607 to institutions.
Description: publishes the results of original research relating to
the structure, properties and processing of ceramic materials.
Formerly (until 1989): International Journal of High Technology
Ceramics. Online - full text ed.: from EBSCO Publishing, Gale Group,
IngentaConnect, OhioLINK, ScienceDirect, Swets Information Services).
Published by: (European Ceramic Society), Elsevier Ltd. (Subsidiary
of: Elsevier Science & Technology), The Boulevard, Langford Ln.
Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom. TEL 44-1865-843000,
http://www.elsevier.com/locate/jeurceramsoc. Ed. Richard J. Brook.
Don't forget, Rockport isn't too far from Houston. Still have the
guest quarters.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On 5/16/07, Craig Clark wrote:
> I'll be careful with my words now........this whole deal sounds like a
> load of self promoting hooey to me. First of all, you deride "ordinary
> ceramic magazines or ordinary books", and then you talk about "pure
> academic contribution. Gimme a break. Thirty bucks for an obscure paper
> written by a self promoting PHD......I think not..
> Regards
> Craig Dunn Clark
Lee Love on thu 17 may 07
On 5/17/07, Craig Clark wrote:
> I'll be careful with my words now........this whole deal sounds like a
> load of self promoting hooey to me.
This is how adedemic and professional publication archives work. I
have bought several articles in the past, most frequently, articles
about dog genetics and also on Asian archeology and history.
Please don't chase another expert away like Kim.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Ivor and Olive Lewis on thu 17 may 07
Dear Bonnie Staffel,=20
Have a look in B. Leach, "A Potter's Book". The Sage gives analyses of =
several types of ash with unwashed and washed values for various =
elements that are important, including those that escape as volatile =
gases.
Potash, which would be most influential in ensuring a good melt at any =
temperature seems to be most susceptible to removal when ash is washed.=20
Seems to hint at using fully washed ash for high temperature glazes, say =
cone 8 and above.
May Luk on thu 17 may 07
Dear Craig and Angela;
That was so rude. Kim has been contributing positively
to Clayart.
Every week, there are clayarters flogging their wares,
DVD, classes and books. Not to mention the festivals
of backslapping.
What is the problem?
Either pay it or don't.
May
Brooklyn, NY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Gimme a break. Thirty bucks for an obscure paper
written by a self promoting PHD......I think not..
Regards
Craig Dunn Clark
Angela Davis on thu 17 may 07
Gee Taylor I really have no problem with self promotion, I hope to
get a chance at it myself someday.
My problem with Kim is that he comes down with both feet on a
well respected proponent of paperclay and when I asked very politely
for some clarification he sends me to a site that asks for $30, instead
of writing a paragraph in response.
This is a forum for sharing ideas, when he made that heavy handed statement
he should have been more forth coming.
Thanks for your email Taylor, I've heard from other Clayarters also.
Brian is having a good laugh in NZ.
Angela Davis
In Homosassa ignoring the baited hook.
Here is the string in case you missed a bit of it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angela Davis"
To: "Clayart" ;
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: PAPER CLAY/Kim
> Now that is interesting. Could you give a couple of examples
> of the changes that might occur with the different minerals left
> behind in the clay body?
>
> Angela Davis
>
> Whipping up buckets of paper-clay in Homosassa.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeoung-Ah Kim"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 6:48 AM
> Subject: Re: PAPER CLAY
>
>
>> Not true. We know inorganic ingredients from the paper will not burn
>> away. It means after the firing, the clay mixed with paper is not the
>> clay you started with. Any relict minerals from the paper composition
>> interface to minerals from clay which will start transformation during
>> the firing process. The phase transformation influences to
>> characteristics of the clay not only the green state but also the fired
>> state.
>>
>> Kim
>>
>> brian wrote:
>> after the paper burns away you are left with the clay that you started
>> with...
>> it will bend and warp or stay flat and behave according to its
>> nature.........
>> 'inconvenient but for large slabs to be sure better fire clay on very
>> flat shelves,especially if you are firing to a high temperature
>>
>> the paper's influence only works at the forming stage
----- Original Message -----
From: "Taylor Hendrix"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: PAPER CLAY/Kim/ thank you but $30 is a bit steep
> This kind of article service is quite common and in no way out of the
> ordinary. Mr Kim was just pointing out his research. I'm sure he
> thought the abstract was good enough for this group.
>
> Of course, any researcher worth her salt would have several options
> for getting this article, some of those options paid for by third
> parties. See full text entry below. Elsevier's Science Direct is a
> database that offers articles from more than 2000 journals.
>
> The accusation of self promotion is somewhat interesting. Is it his
> PhD or his lack of long history on the list which inflames your
> distaste for promotion? I hope you let the rest of us continue our
> self promotion on the list! he he.
>
> FYI, information from Ulrich's Periodical Directory 2007.
> Journal of the European Ceramic Society. Refereed Serial. Text in
> English. Started 1985. 16/yr. Cost is USD 3,607 to institutions.
> Description: publishes the results of original research relating to
> the structure, properties and processing of ceramic materials.
> Formerly (until 1989): International Journal of High Technology
> Ceramics. Online - full text ed.: from EBSCO Publishing, Gale Group,
> IngentaConnect, OhioLINK, ScienceDirect, Swets Information Services).
> Published by: (European Ceramic Society), Elsevier Ltd. (Subsidiary
> of: Elsevier Science & Technology), The Boulevard, Langford Ln.
> Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom. TEL 44-1865-843000,
> http://www.elsevier.com/locate/jeurceramsoc. Ed. Richard J. Brook.
>
>
>
> Don't forget, Rockport isn't too far from Houston. Still have the
> guest quarters.
>
> Taylor, in Rockport TX
>
> On 5/16/07, Craig Clark wrote:
>> I'll be careful with my words now........this whole deal sounds like a
>> load of self promoting hooey to me. First of all, you deride "ordinary
>> ceramic magazines or ordinary books", and then you talk about "pure
>> academic contribution. Gimme a break. Thirty bucks for an obscure paper
>> written by a self promoting PHD......I think not..
>> Regards
>> Craig Dunn Clark
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database:
> 269.7.1/807 - Release Date: 5/16/2007 6:05 PM
>
>
Eva Gallagher on thu 17 may 07
Yes, someone has to pay for scientific publications. It costs a scientific
library at a Univeristy or company often hundreds of dollars to subscribe to
a certain publication and they usually have hundreds of different
subscriptions - remember I don't think there is any advertizing in these to
help defray the cost of publishing. I doubt that anyone is making any money
except to pay for the editors and publishing! It all helps to support
science - a very essential part of our past, present and future!
Regards,
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: PAPER CLAY/Kim/ thank you but $30 is a bit steep
> On 5/17/07, Craig Clark wrote:
>
>> I'll be careful with my words now........this whole deal sounds like a
>> load of self promoting hooey to me.
>
> This is how adedemic and professional publication archives work. I
> have bought several articles in the past, most frequently, articles
> about dog genetics and also on Asian archeology and history.
>
> Please don't chase another expert away like Kim.
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> "To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
> Henry David Thoreau
>
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Barb Lord on thu 17 may 07
This is a very typical situation in industry and academia. I work in the
auto industry and our researchers and engineers write papers for the
Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Those papers are presented in
industry forums and then are sold by SAE. SAE holds the copyrights and if
we want a copy, we have to pay for our own paper. I know how strange that
sounds, but that's just the way it is.
Not so unusual though even in the "real" world. If you want a back issue
of Ceramics Monthly or other clay publication, you have to pay, unless you
can get them from a friend. Yes, some articles are on the internet for
free, but many are not.
Kim, thank you for your input and information. Don't stop posting please.
Barb
bjlordart.com
Vince Pitelka on thu 17 may 07
Craig Clark wrote:
> I'll be careful with my words now........this whole deal sounds like a
> load of self promoting hooey to me. First of all, you deride "ordinary
> ceramic magazines or ordinary books", and then you talk about "pure
> academic contribution. Gimme a break. Thirty bucks for an obscure paper
> written by a self promoting PHD......I think not..
Whoa Craig, that was REALLY obnoxious. He referred to ordinary ceramics
magazines and books because that is what they are. They are not scholarly
journals. Why would you write a post like this in such an insulting tone?
You don't seem to know anything about the academic press, so why would you
say these things?
A post like this just makes you look foolish. I hope you realize that now.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Craig Clark on thu 17 may 07
Lee, I hardly think I am capable of chasing away an expert. Your
statement implies that there was some other expert that I somehow chased
away. Please, refresh my memory, I didn't know that I had ever chased
anyone away for that matter. Possibly with the exception of that Troll
who showed up on the boards several months ago stirring up dust,
attacking Joyce and talking about how we needed to change clayart. I
don't even remember her name anymore, and she certainly was no expert.
I should not have used the word "hooey." That was not nice. I was being
my occasional, knee-jerk, reactionary self and responding to the comment
that Kim made, which seemed derisive, about "normal" Ceramic
publications. I feel that I have been duly lashed. I now have a better
understanding of academic publications and the costs involved. This is
something of which I was pretty much wholly ignorant.
One thing that I do not understand is why the cost of publishing a cyber
document is so high. I understand that there are no advertisers to cover
the cost of publishing, but if the papers are based in the ether of
cyberspace, and the research is conducted in a publicly supported
University or Institution, what is a basic break down of the pricing
structure.
Craig Dunn CLark
619 East 11 1/2 St
Houston, Texas 77008
(713)861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
http://mudman00.blogspot.com/
Lee Love wrote:
> On 5/17/07, Craig Clark wrote:
>
>> I'll be careful with my words now........this whole deal sounds like a
>> load of self promoting hooey to me.
>
> This is how adedemic and professional publication archives work. I
> have bought several articles in the past, most frequently, articles
> about dog genetics and also on Asian archeology and history.
>
> Please don't chase another expert away like Kim.
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> "To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
> Henry David Thoreau
>
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
>
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Lee Love on fri 18 may 07
On 5/18/07, Craig Clark wrote:
> Lee, I hardly think I am capable of chasing away an expert. Your
> statement implies that there was some other expert that I somehow chased
> away. Please, refresh my memory, I didn't know that I had ever chased
> anyone away for that matter
Not you Craig, but others on the list. A general drift toward
anti-intellectualism.
> One thing that I do not understand is why the cost of publishing a cyber
> document is so high. I understand that there are no advertisers to cover
> the cost of publishing, but if the papers are based in the ether of
> cyberspace, and the research is conducted in a publicly supported
> University or Institution, what is a basic break down of the pricing
> structure.
It is the cost of peer reviewage that supports scientific research.
"On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog."
Science works at a little higher level than your average
posting to an email list.
As Vince or someone mentioned, the free abstract pretty much
answered Angela's question.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 18 may 07
Dear Craig Clark,
Lighten up a bit Mate ! ! !
I suggest you go into the Elsevier site and have a look at some of their =
titles. They are not only publishers but also, in a similar way to =
Nature, British and New England Medical Journals, act as a platform for =
Peer Review. And unlike the general publications we know of and use I =
doubt if a print run is more than about 250.
Have a look at the prices in the ACS catalogue
I recently inquired about a book from an UK Academic publisher. They are =
now only printing on demand.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
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