stephani stephenson on tue 15 may 07
i wasn't going to post on this topic again, but i
heard a comment today that i just have to relate.
.the following is a true story...
today a production potter started working at the
studio
we were talking as he was getting his throwing area
set up .
he explained that he would bring his lunch every day
because he did not want to waste time and money
driving someplace to get lunch.
he said he works from 7:30 to 4 every day , throwing
pot, as many as he can, as he is paid by the piece.
Though he chuckled as he said this, he was proud and
totally sincere when he said, , "basically , i'm a
total machine, when i go to throw pots""
i just had to (mentally) throw back my head and laugh
all our efforts to explain how human and handmade our
work is..
poof!
i know it is a serious discussion and though it has
gone to some extremes, serious thought and banter has
gone into it.
but this... this provided a great moment of levity and
some refreshing perspective.
sometimes good to take a step back...
rmember we are all in pretty much the same neck of the
woods
Stephani
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John Rodgers on wed 16 may 07
Stephani,
That is a hoot!! I laughed out loud when I read the story. I am a
biologist by professional training - with a lot of anatomy, physiology
and a bunch of physics thrown in on top for good measure. And I cannot
count the number of times in both arenas I have heard the human body
referred to as a "marvelously complex machine", as indeed it is -
incorporating into it the "basic" machines recognized by physics -
levers, inclined planes, etc, etc. So much for the "hand-made" debate.
The whole issue just evaporated so far as I am concerned.
Thanks for reminding us with this story that ALL pottery - slip cast or
thrown - one way or another is made by the use of a machine - that
"marvelously complex machine" - the human body.
Best regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
stephani stephenson wrote:
> i wasn't going to post on this topic again, but i
> heard a comment today that i just have to relate.
>
> .the following is a true story...
>
> today a production potter started working at the
> studio
> we were talking as he was getting his throwing area
> set up .
>
> he explained that he would bring his lunch every day
> because he did not want to waste time and money
> driving someplace to get lunch.
> he said he works from 7:30 to 4 every day , throwing
> pot, as many as he can, as he is paid by the piece.
>
> Though he chuckled as he said this, he was proud and
> totally sincere when he said, , "basically , i'm a
> total machine, when i go to throw pots""
>
>
> i just had to (mentally) throw back my head and laugh
>
> all our efforts to explain how human and handmade our
> work is..
>
> poof!
>
> i know it is a serious discussion and though it has
> gone to some extremes, serious thought and banter has
> gone into it.
>
> but this... this provided a great moment of levity and
> some refreshing perspective.
> sometimes good to take a step back...
> rmember we are all in pretty much the same neck of the
> woods
> Stephani
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
stephani stephenson on wed 16 may 07
Lee wrote:
I am not sure what this proves or why it is so funny.
I
am guessing you never had to work like this for a
living. $B!! (B Nothing
funny about it.
--
lee
i can't explain the humor ,if you didn't get it... but
the above statement also makes me chuckle...your
guessing is sooooo wrong!
Stephani
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Lee Love on wed 16 may 07
On 5/16/07, stephani stephenson wrote:
> i wasn't going to post on this topic again, but i
> heard a comment today that i just have to relate.
>
> .the following is a true story...
>
> today a production potter started working at the
> studio
> we were talking as he was getting his throwing area
> set up .
>
> he explained that he would bring his lunch every day
> because he did not want to waste time and money
> driving someplace to get lunch.
> he said he works from 7:30 to 4 every day , throwing
> pot, as many as he can, as he is paid by the piece.
Piece work is always problematic. Espeically if an anrtist is not
present and supervising the complete process.
> i just had to (mentally) throw back my head and laugh
>
> all our efforts to explain how human and handmade our
> work is..
> poof!
I am not sure what this proves or why it is so funny. I
am guessing you never had to work like this for a living. $B!! (B Nothing
funny about it.
$B!!!!!!!! (B Some folks can throw very fast and make works of art.
Others, not so good. The proof is in the pudding.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
stephani stephenson on thu 17 may 07
Let me see if I can explain...
in the post a few days back(see below)
I wasn't laughing at the potter. Far from it.
the potter's words sounded refreshingly honest.
Especially as I reflected on the topic we had been
discussing on CLAYART: the whole conversation of
handmade vs machine, and our different approaches and
techniques to work with clay.
HIs words , and enthusiasm sparked a sort of
...paradigm shift,
i laughed in the way that one laughs when such a shift
occurs, a shaft of daylight through clouds, an 'aha'
moment as they say.
So I was laughing more at us, me included.
But there was no meanness in my humor.
to give you a bit more background on why this struck
me so...I'd like to relate the rest of the
conversation, and as Dave Barry says
"...and i am not making this up...."
the potter (who remains nameless here because he has
no interest in spreading his name all over the
internet, so i can respect that...)
The potter came over to my table , (where i had been
extruding slabs of clay and cutting field tile and
trim, and where i was now pressing cakes of clay into
press molds for some decorative tile)
he asked ,"do you make your own molds?"
I said "yes"
he said "do you make the originals too?"
I said "yes"
he said "ah, now that is the real skill. me, i only
throw pots."
i said "no, no,no, making pots is a very good
skill..it takes a lot of skill , many skills, to throw
pots like you do"
and this continued for a few rounds....we continued to
buoy up the skills of the other and express the
regard we had for the work each did, etc.
NOW it may sound like we were just stroking egos here,
but in fact, what stood out to me was that we were
both quite sincere in our respect for the craft and
skill of the other.
so it was enjoyable (and maybe somewhat extravagantly
polite ) but so what? it was nice, and sincere . and
who among those who work with hands to earn bread
doesn't need or enjoy that every now and then.( i
sense that coming through many of the CLAYART posts
.)
don't get me wrong, a good debate and even some dinner
table or back porch grandstanding or breastbeating is
also part of the show and the dialogue , (though i
usually take a powder when it turns to browbeating)
Yes It is sometimes useful way to flesh out the
issue and flush out the garbage , the big picture and
all the nooks and crannies...and sometimes we can't
help it...we get carried away, we do go on...it is
part of our nature too.
But the positive tone of this conversation made me
smile, and i thought, now this is also important ,
expressing mutual respect for the varied and differing
ways we approach our medium, and the craft , methods
and skills we employ as we do so..
no, the potter and i have no problem...
(then we both commenced working our butts off....
... he filled up several racks, i my boards...)
Stephani Stephenson
earlier post:
stephani stephenson wrote:
> i wasn't going to post on this topic again, but i
> heard a comment today that i just have to relate.
>
> .the following is a true story...
>
> today a production potter started working at the
> studio
> we were talking as he was getting his throwing area
> set up .
>
> he explained that he would bring his lunch every day
> because he did not want to waste time and money
> driving someplace to get lunch.
> he said he works from 7:30 to 4 every day ,
throwing
> pot, as many as he can, as he is paid by the piece.
>
> Though he chuckled as he said this, he was proud
and
> totally sincere when he said, , "basically , i'm a
> total machine, when i go to throw pots""
>
>
> i just had to (mentally) throw back my head and
laugh
>
> all our efforts to explain how human and handmade
our
> work is..
>
> poof!
>
> i know it is a serious discussion and though it has
> gone to some extremes, serious thought and banter
has
> gone into it.
>
> but this... this provided a great moment of levity
and
> some refreshing perspective.
> sometimes good to take a step back...
> remember we are all in pretty much the same neck of
the
> woods
> Stephani
>
>
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Tom at Hutchtel.net on thu 17 may 07
Maybe if everyone would spend their time educating the consumer why
'handmade' is better (if it is) or worth more money, instead of arguing
about it on Clayart, handmakers would feel less of a drive to staunchly
defend their methods. If you can't tell me why it's better, then why should
I pay more for it....if I do.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
Vince Pitelka on thu 17 may 07
Tom Wirt wrote:
> Maybe if everyone would spend their time educating the consumer why
> 'handmade' is better (if it is) or worth more money, instead of arguing
> about it on Clayart, handmakers would feel less of a drive to staunchly
> defend their methods. If you can't tell me why it's better, then why
> should
> I pay more for it....if I do.
Tom -
I apologize in advance for the cliche, but if you have to ask why it is
better, I am not sure I can explain it to you. I know you are playing
devil's advocate here, and I know you know the difference.
Many years ago, when I was doing pots full time in Humboldt County in
Northern California, a customer came up to me at one of my pottery sales.
She was holding one of my mugs, and she looked at me, and with genuine
sincerity she said "I like this mug, and it feels good in my hand, but it's
$6 (that was in 1985 - cheap even for then), and I can buy a perfectly
serviceable mug at Wal-Mart for 99 cents." I said, sure it will be
perfectly serviceable, but you will know that it was mass-produced, and has
no individual character. You buy my $6 mug, and you know it was handmade by
me, and a little piece of me went into that mug. There's not another one
exactly like it in the world. If you celebrate individuality and artisanry
over mass-production and the ordinary, then the mug will be worth your
investment, and will continue to reward you every time you use it." She
bought a set of six mugs.
I do not mean to equate pots slip-cast by a potter with that mug purchased
at Wal-Mart, but the slip-cast pots don't have the soul and originality of
the truly handmade pot. That's the reality. If you are only thinking about
the appearance and function of the finished product, and don't care a whit
about artisanry and the integrity of process, then you'll probably be just
as happy with the slip-cast pot. Judging from the number of studio artists
who have started slip-casting their wares and are doing well at it,
apparently there are large segments of the public that don't know the
difference or don't care.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Lee Love on fri 18 may 07
On 5/17/07, Tom at Hutchtel.net wrote:
> defend their methods. If you can't tell me why it's better, then why should
> I pay more for it....if I do.
No amount of verbiage about the puddin' is as good as
tasting it. If you cannot see and feel/taste the difference, it
doesn't matter. Quality has to be the bottom line.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Lee Love on fri 18 may 07
On 5/17/07, stephani stephenson wrote:
> i can't explain the humor ,if you didn't get it... but
> the above statement also makes me chuckle...your
> guessing is sooooo wrong!
I am happy you fleshed out your experience for us. For the
most part, the potter's life has been exactly as your friend's, simply
busting butt to make ends meet. It has only been recently, with the
growth of the middle class and the attendant wealth, that the artist
potter has been made possible.
I have been reading about the potters of the SHigaraki valley
in Louise Cort's book about it. For the larger part of history,
potters only made other rich. This is a pretty incredible book.
Your potter friend expresses the humility I usually
experience with potters.
Thanks,
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
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