Larry Kruzan on tue 22 may 07
Hi All,
I have a small grant to apply to the purchase of health and safety items for
my studio and classroom. One of the items I need is a GOOD HEPA vac system
for all the oblivious reasons. I am considering either the Nilfisk
Eliminator I or the Nilfisk CFM 127 from Bailey. The Eliminator is much
smaller and less costly (apox. $900 with all accessories vs. $3400 for the
CFM 127), but my concern is the life of the unit, the life of the owner (ME)
and performance, not dollars. I have found that cheaper is rarely better
and I hate junky tools.
SO my question is what do you use? Does anybody own either of these or used
them and can tell me how they worked out? Am I way off even worrying about
this?
One last thing - we currently hose and mop the floors but there is just too
much clay getting into the clay traps, which means more maintenance, which
takes more time, which costs more dollars..
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
normana on tue 22 may 07
I bought a unit from Baily, anyways I wound up getting a central vac
unit. Far superior have a 50 foot hose so have one vac connection. any
dust that is not caught in the unit is vented outside. My main complaint
with the vacuum from Baily was how fast it lost vacuum and the filter
had to be cleaned to restore the vacuum . I bought it over 10 yrs. ago
and they might have been improved, I don't know, it did the job, but
somewhat of a pain.
The central vac. unit was cheaper and I am very happy with it, easy to
install easy to use, but had to be vented outside, I vented it through
the roof..
norman
Larry Kruzan wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have a small grant to apply to the purchase of health and safety items for
> my studio and classroom. One of the items I need is a GOOD HEPA vac system
> for all the oblivious reasons. I am considering either the Nilfisk
> Eliminator I or the Nilfisk CFM 127 from Bailey. The Eliminator is much
> smaller and less costly (apox. $900 with all accessories vs. $3400 for the
> CFM 127), but my concern is the life of the unit, the life of the owner (ME)
> and performance, not dollars. I have found that cheaper is rarely better
> and I hate junky tools.
>
>
>
> SO my question is what do you use? Does anybody own either of these or used
> them and can tell me how they worked out? Am I way off even worrying about
> this?
>
>
>
> One last thing - we currently hose and mop the floors but there is just too
> much clay getting into the clay traps, which means more maintenance, which
> takes more time, which costs more dollars..
>
>
>
> Larry Kruzan
>
> Lost Creek Pottery
>
> www.lostcreekpottery.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
>
WJ Seidl on wed 23 may 07
Larry:
You don't mention if you are strictly looking for a central vac system.
If you haven't yet convinced yourself that you need one, please contact
me offlist.
There are a number of excellent alternatives (for less money) if you
don't mind mobile.
BTW, I do not sell vacuums. I just buy them for clients, and our own
company use.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Larry Kruzan wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have a small grant to apply to the purchase of health and safety items for
> my studio and classroom. One of the items I need is a GOOD HEPA vac system
> for all the oblivious reasons. I am considering either the Nilfisk
> Eliminator I or the Nilfisk CFM 127 from Bailey. The Eliminator is much
> smaller and less costly (apox. $900 with all accessories vs. $3400 for the
> CFM 127), but my concern is the life of the unit, the life of the owner (ME)
> and performance, not dollars. I have found that cheaper is rarely better
> and I hate junky tools.
>
>
>
> SO my question is what do you use? Does anybody own either of these or used
> them and can tell me how they worked out? Am I way off even worrying about
> this?
>
>
>
> One last thing - we currently hose and mop the floors but there is just too
> much clay getting into the clay traps, which means more maintenance, which
> takes more time, which costs more dollars..
>
>
>
> Larry Kruzan
fran johnson on wed 23 may 07
Larry,
I use a Nilfisk(GS90) in my home and studio and I love
it. I have had the vaccuum for 35+ years, got it for
allergies. One of the things I'm allergic to is dust.
I think it does a great job and for me and my studio.
It is not spefically designed for class sized
cleanups, tho.
As for longevity, I've had no problems, just changing
out filters and bags. One filter gets replaced every 5
years. The others every couple of years.
I don't know how much info Baily has given you: if you
want, you can call the company at 1-800-NILFISK. They
have a U.S. plant. I bought mine directly from them
and get bags, etc. the same way.
Usual disclaimers. I've just found it to be a good
product.And the people very helpful, answering
questions and providing written info.
Just for comparison- my Nilfisk cost about $700.00 in
1971.
Fran
--- Larry Kruzan wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have a small grant to apply to the purchase of
> health and safety items for
> my studio and classroom. One of the items I need is
> a GOOD HEPA vac system
> for all the oblivious reasons. I am considering
> either the Nilfisk
> Eliminator I or the Nilfisk CFM 127 from Bailey.
> The Eliminator is much
> smaller and less costly (apox. $900 with all
> accessories vs. $3400 for the
> CFM 127), but my concern is the life of the unit,
> the life of the owner (ME)
> and performance, not dollars. I have found that
> cheaper is rarely better
> and I hate junky tools.
>
>
>
> SO my question is what do you use? Does anybody own
> either of these or used
> them and can tell me how they worked out? Am I way
> off even worrying about
> this?
>
>
>
> One last thing - we currently hose and mop the
> floors but there is just too
> much clay getting into the clay traps, which means
> more maintenance, which
> takes more time, which costs more dollars..
>
>
>
> Larry Kruzan
>
> Lost Creek Pottery
>
> www.lostcreekpottery.com
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Donald Burroughs on thu 24 may 07
I use a Beam central vaccum which is vented to the outside. While mine is
not an industrial vaccum when vented outside this more than does the job.
Just make sure that there are no windows which are open near the exhaust.
I believe that Beam also makes an industrial version which was advertised
in CM some time ago. If you have other constrains like maybe your studio
is a loft type situation simply venting outdoors may not be possible with
neighbours in close proximity. I would suggest if your outdoor environment
allows it in the winter attaching the outside vent of a Beam unit to large
plastic barrel with a pipe extending down above water filled about 1/3 up
in the barrel and where any minute invisible particles would fall into the
water rendering them harmless. You will have to construct a baffle on an
exhaust hole drilled opposite of the entry pipe in order for the vaccum to
work properly.
Don
WJ Seidl on thu 24 may 07
Don:
That's basically what I've done with our roll around wet/dry vacs;
create a water bath inside.
It eliminates most if not all of the silica particles from the exhaust air.
We don't worry about the noise. With our 20 gallon roll-arounds, the
exhaust is on top
and the water being less than half of the canister height means we
needn't worry about a baffle.
If there is concern about water inside the vac in large quantities
(since it does add to the weight of the machine)
one can always put a 5 gallon bucket inside the vac canister, and put
the intake air piping down
into that bucket filled with water instead. Same idea. Just remember
to change the water daily,
and empty it when you're done. For some reason, it makes a good growing
medium for all sorts of things (EWWW!)
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Donald Burroughs wrote:
> I use a Beam central vaccum which is vented to the outside. While mine is
> not an industrial vaccum when vented outside this more than does the job.
> Just make sure that there are no windows which are open near the exhaust.
> I believe that Beam also makes an industrial version which was advertised
> in CM some time ago. If you have other constrains like maybe your studio
> is a loft type situation simply venting outdoors may not be possible with
> neighbours in close proximity. I would suggest if your outdoor environment
> allows it in the winter attaching the outside vent of a Beam unit to large
> plastic barrel with a pipe extending down above water filled about 1/3 up
> in the barrel and where any minute invisible particles would fall into the
> water rendering them harmless. You will have to construct a baffle on an
> exhaust hole drilled opposite of the entry pipe in order for the vaccum to
> work properly.
>
> Don
>
Denny on thu 24 may 07
My studio uses a Beam Central Vacuum system. It is a great addition for any studio! The motor and vacuum are mounted in the garage, so all noise and ALL DUST stay out of the studio.
Larry, for the amount of money you are considering spending, You would be well advised to look at a central vac system. Some potters have had decent results by mounting a "shop" vacuum outside and piping the inlet into the studio.
The key point is to get virtually all dust ouside of the studio forever. A central vac or exterior mounted vac does not depend on a filter that can be clogged up, or simply not work as advertised, given the volume of dust that can be generated.
Marc Ward at wardburner.com had an excellent discussion on his site about the advantages of a central vac.
Installation is straightforward and usually only requires a few sections of 2" PVC pipe to be glued together.
You will be very happy with a central vac if you try it!
Regards,
Denny Means
The Goodsons on fri 25 may 07
Dear Wayne,
Thank you!!!!! I have just tried your idea with my small 6 gallon
wet/dry shop vac. It is like having a "faux rainbow". Years and years
ago, there was this fancy vacuum cleaner called a "rainbow",where water
caught all the dirt. I always wanted one ( I borrowed a friend's one
time when my son had asthma) , I never realized I had a "faux"one down
in the basement. When I was done, I just took it apart-filter and all,
and hosed it all down outside. Great idea!
Better get back to my cleaning!
Linda Goodson
Lincolnton, NC
WJ Seidl wrote:
> Don:
> That's basically what I've done with our roll around wet/dry vacs;
> create a water bath inside.
> It eliminates most if not all of the silica particles from the exhaust
> air.
>
> . Just remember
> to change the water daily,
> and empty it when you're done. For some reason, it makes a good growing
> medium for all sorts of things (EWWW!)
>
> Best,
> Wayne Seidl
>
>
>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
WJ Seidl on sat 26 may 07
Linda:
I'm glad it worked for you. Don deserves the credit for suggesting it
to the list.
Not my original idea at all.
My friend sold Rainbows years ago. (Fond memories there)
She still has and uses hers, and I threaten to steal it every time I visit.
It's a running joke now..."oh, you'll steal the vacuum, but not ME?" .
One word of warning to the rest of you contemplating that change:
be sure you are converting a wet / dry vac. Putting water (even
contained!) into
a "dry only" vacuum is NOT advised! Remember that electricity and water
don't mix!
Best,
Wayne Seidl
The Goodsons wrote:
> Dear Wayne,
> Thank you!!!!! I have just tried your idea with my small 6 gallon
> wet/dry shop vac. It is like having a "faux rainbow". Years and years
> ago, there was this fancy vacuum cleaner called a "rainbow",where water
> caught all the dirt. I always wanted one ( I borrowed a friend's one
> time when my son had asthma) , I never realized I had a "faux"one down
> in the basement. When I was done, I just took it apart-filter and all,
> and hosed it all down outside. Great idea!
>
> Better get back to my cleaning!
> Linda Goodson
> Lincolnton, NC
>
>
> WJ Seidl wrote:
>> Don:
>> That's basically what I've done with our roll around wet/dry vacs;
>> create a water bath inside.
>> It eliminates most if not all of the silica particles from the exhaust
>> air.
>>
>> . Just remember
>> to change the water daily,
>> and empty it when you're done. For some reason, it makes a good growing
>> medium for all sorts of things (EWWW!)
>>
>> Best,
>> Wayne Seidl
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Ron Johnson on wed 30 may 07
Because I do not have and never have had a wet/dry vac, I looked for information about
how they work so I could figure out how to do what I understood you to be suggesting,
and I found a picture here: http://home.howstuffworks.com/vacuum-cleaner3.htm
In the picture, the air intake is above the water and the process relies on dust dropping out
of the airstream into the water.
Do I understand correctly that you change the intake so that the dust-laden airstream
goes down into a container of water, leaving the dust there to be poured out?
Ron Johnson
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: WJ Seidl
> Don:
> That's basically what I've done with our roll around wet/dry vacs;
> create a water bath inside.
> It eliminates most if not all of the silica particles from the exhaust air.
> We don't worry about the noise. With our 20 gallon roll-arounds, the
> exhaust is on top
> and the water being less than half of the canister height means we
> needn't worry about a baffle.
>
> If there is concern about water inside the vac in large quantities
> (since it does add to the weight of the machine)
> one can always put a 5 gallon bucket inside the vac canister, and put
> the intake air piping down
> into that bucket filled with water instead. Same idea. Just remember
> to change the water daily,
> and empty it when you're done. For some reason, it makes a good growing
> medium for all sorts of things (EWWW!)
>
> Best,
> Wayne Seidl
>
>
> Donald Burroughs wrote:
> > I use a Beam central vaccum which is vented to the outside. While mine is
> > not an industrial vaccum when vented outside this more than does the job.
> > Just make sure that there are no windows which are open near the exhaust.
> > I believe that Beam also makes an industrial version which was advertised
> > in CM some time ago. If you have other constrains like maybe your studio
> > is a loft type situation simply venting outdoors may not be possible with
> > neighbours in close proximity. I would suggest if your outdoor environment
> > allows it in the winter attaching the outside vent of a Beam unit to large
> > plastic barrel with a pipe extending down above water filled about 1/3 up
> > in the barrel and where any minute invisible particles would fall into the
> > water rendering them harmless. You will have to construct a baffle on an
> > exhaust hole drilled opposite of the entry pipe in order for the vaccum to
> > work properly.
> >
> > Don
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
WJ Seidl on wed 30 may 07
Yes.
Using the diagram on the page you linked, modify the intake as follows:
Insert a 1-1/2 inch 90 degree street elbow into the hole in the body
where the vacuum hose enters.
Into the other end of the elbow, insert an appropriately sized piece of
1-1/2 inch PVC pipe. Do not
glue it in, so that it can be removed for cleaning. On the bottom of
that pipe, insert a regular
1-1/2 inch 90 degree PVC elbow. You can glue this or not as you wish.
We do.
Then it is a simple matter of installing a 5 gallon bucket in the bottom
of the vac, installing the pipe, and filling the bucket at least halfway
with water (or simply installing the pipe and adding water to the vacuum
so that the bottom elbow is covered to a depth of two inches or so. The
intake water bubbles through the water and exits the vacuum as it
normally would, minus dust, in effect creating a water bath.
We chose to use a bucket so that the weight of the vacuum is reduced.
Easier to move around, easier to clean, less strain on the hose.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Ron Johnson wrote:
> Because I do not have and never have had a wet/dry vac, I looked for information about
> how they work so I could figure out how to do what I understood you to be suggesting,
> and I found a picture here: http://home.howstuffworks.com/vacuum-cleaner3.htm
>
> In the picture, the air intake is above the water and the process relies on dust dropping out
> of the airstream into the water.
>
> Do I understand correctly that you change the intake so that the dust-laden airstream
> goes down into a container of water, leaving the dust there to be poured out?
>
> Ron Johnson
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: WJ Seidl
>> Don:
>> That's basically what I've done with our roll around wet/dry vacs;
>> create a water bath inside.
>> It eliminates most if not all of the silica particles from the exhaust air.
>> We don't worry about the noise. With our 20 gallon roll-arounds, the
>> exhaust is on top
>> and the water being less than half of the canister height means we
>> needn't worry about a baffle.
>>
>> If there is concern about water inside the vac in large quantities
>> (since it does add to the weight of the machine)
>> one can always put a 5 gallon bucket inside the vac canister, and put
>> the intake air piping down
>> into that bucket filled with water instead. Same idea. Just remember
>> to change the water daily,
>> and empty it when you're done. For some reason, it makes a good growing
>> medium for all sorts of things (EWWW!)
>>
>> Best,
>> Wayne Seidl
>>
>>
>> Donald Burroughs wrote:
>>> I use a Beam central vaccum which is vented to the outside. While mine is
>>> not an industrial vaccum when vented outside this more than does the job.
>>> Just make sure that there are no windows which are open near the exhaust.
>>> I believe that Beam also makes an industrial version which was advertised
>>> in CM some time ago. If you have other constrains like maybe your studio
>>> is a loft type situation simply venting outdoors may not be possible with
>>> neighbours in close proximity. I would suggest if your outdoor environment
>>> allows it in the winter attaching the outside vent of a Beam unit to large
>>> plastic barrel with a pipe extending down above water filled about 1/3 up
>>> in the barrel and where any minute invisible particles would fall into the
>>> water rendering them harmless. You will have to construct a baffle on an
>>> exhaust hole drilled opposite of the entry pipe in order for the vaccum to
>>> work properly.
>>>
>>> Don
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Taylor Hendrix on thu 31 may 07
Wayne,
I also dry vac in a similar way occasionally but for the major clean I
would use the vac as a wet vac and flood the floor with water then
suck up water and all rather than farting dusty air through 2 inches
of water. We like your lungs, Wayne, and we want to keep them healthy.
I'm so messy with my trimmings etc that I would kill myself in a few
years if I cleaned up your way.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On 5/30/07, WJ Seidl wrote:
> Yes.
> Using the diagram on the page you linked, modify the intake as follows:
> Insert a 1-1/2 inch 90 degree street elbow into the hole in the body
> where the vacuum hose enters.
> Into the other end of the elbow, insert an appropriately sized piece of
> 1-1/2 inch PVC pipe. Do not
> glue it in, so that it can be removed for cleaning. On the bottom of
> that pipe, insert a regular
> 1-1/2 inch 90 degree PVC elbow. You can glue this or not as you wish.
Ron Johnson on thu 31 may 07
Thanks, Wayne, for the perfectly clear instructions. Mechanically challenged though I am, I think I can follow them -- or I can get my son, who installed the utility sink in my basement studio, to do it for me. 8^)
Further questions:
I gather from your posts that you use a 20-gal. unit with a 5 gal bucket inside to reduce weight. Do you think the same process would work for a smaller machine, perhaps a 5 gal. unit?
If so, does the use of an interior container serve any other purpose than reducing weight?
Finally, would this adaptation affect the use of the machine to pick up water from the floor?
Thanks for your patience and for sharing your hard-won knowledge.
Ron Johnson
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: WJ Seidl
> Yes.
> Using the diagram on the page you linked, modify the intake as follows:
> [snip]
>
> Then it is a simple matter of installing a 5 gallon bucket in the bottom
> of the vac, [snip]
> We chose to use a bucket so that the weight of the vacuum is reduced.
> Easier to move around, easier to clean, less strain on the hose.
[snip]
With our 20 gallon roll-arounds, [snip]
WJ Seidl on thu 31 may 07
Taylor:
See my latest post.
Best
Wayne
Taylor Hendrix wrote:
> Wayne,
>
> I also dry vac in a similar way occasionally but for the major clean I
> would use the vac as a wet vac and flood the floor with water then
> suck up water and all rather than farting dusty air through 2 inches
> of water. We like your lungs, Wayne, and we want to keep them healthy.
> I'm so messy with my trimmings etc that I would kill myself in a few
> years if I cleaned up your way.
>
> Taylor, in Rockport TX
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