Eric Suchman on mon 28 may 07
Thank you Ellen,
I really appreciate your input,
-Eric in Oceanside
On May 28, 2007, at 10:21 AM, Ellen Currans wrote:
> I'm not surprised that most of the discussions on Clayart that turn
> into arguments (or worse) have to do with our beliefs that the way we
> do things is the only way. I read most of the posts , because I am
> still learning after 48 years, and there seems always to be new ways
> or better ways to do things. But, I am amused that some people
> want us
> all to do it their way, without considering the vast variety of
> pottery
> making and potters. I pay more attention to those who are actually
> doing it and have done it for some years, because experience always
> trumps academic teaching in my book. That is why I appreciated the
> June CM articles on working potters. They didn't all do it the same
> way, but they mostly found practical solutions to make it possible to
> keep on. There is no doubt that it is harder to get started or make a
> living with pottery now than it was in the 70's and 80's.
>
> I think we should all continue to support CM(PMI) and Claytimes
> because they are the only national magazines we have that solely
> report
> on our craft. They are the clearing house for all things ceramic in
> the U.S. and we would miss them if they quit publishing. I relate
> better to Ceramic Review and Ceramics Technical, but they are
> expensive, and do not tell you what is going on in the US. I buy
> ceramic magazines for the same reason I take workshops --hoping to
> find
> just a few little bits of information and inspiration I can use in my
> own work. We could all do a better job of submitting photos and
> articles so they have more to select from.
>
> We seem to have some unwritten hierarchy of value that we place on
> potters and their work which creates a problem with self esteem for
> many of us. One of my problems with CM is that they are showcasing
> work that I don't aspire to, and could not make a living making. But
> it is showcased there, which subtly means it is good, and I just have
> to deal with it. While making pottery for use that sells is mostly
> what
> the full-time potters I know, still making a living are doing, it is
> disparaged as somehow "less" than making one of a kind objects for
> galleries. Well, it does keep groceries on the table and allows me to
> keep on working with clay. It doesn't mean either, that I don't care
> about the quality of each piece I make. A perfect soup bowl or mug is
> a delight for both maker and buyer, and always a goal out ahead for
> me.
>
> I truly think that if you learned to pot using only clay you dug
> yourself, hand wedged, thrown on a kick wheel, with just a few bamboo
> tools, good for you. If you are a tool freak, as I am, it is no big
> deal, just different. If you apprenticed with some well known potter
> who imprinted his style on you, so be it, but his way is not the only
> way to trim a foot or put on a handle. If you only like anagama fired
> pots with no glaze, fine by me. If you can only have an electric kiln
> on the back porch and no room to store glaze materials, go ahead and
> buy your glazes. If you have a spouse with a good job, who supports
> your pottery making in every way, and has family health insurance,
> lucky you! It is the intensity of the desire to make things out of
> clay, and your willingness to keep learning that makes you a potter
> -not whether you are full-time or part-time. The only way you fail is
> if you quit making, or if you settle for someone else's ideas of what
> is worth making.
>
> Everyone talking about glazes this past week makes sense to me. High
> school glazing Mel's way makes sense. Get the basics down solidly.
> Good results from a few glazes and learning how to use them before
> moving on. What Rick does also makes sense to me in his situation.
> The way Aerni glazes (and his great results) also. It is what he has
> worked up to over years and lots of pots so that he understands how he
> is using them. I have a very clear picture of John Glick glazing in
> the middle of what looks like a whole room full of glaze buckets.
> Rich, glorious glazing, but he knows what he is doing. I probably
> have
> 30 buckets of glaze in my studio, but only use about 8 of them. I go
> back from time to time to retest or glaze a few things in an older
> glaze, under new firing conditions, and I constantly test for new
> glazes or changes in what I have. But the reality is that I can't
> deal
> with too many glazes and still present a consistent body of work that
> keeps my customers coming back for more.
>
> For teachers and classroom situations, I think it is a matter of
> keeping control, and good solid teaching on glazes. That is
> missing in
> so many ceramic teaching situations. There might be 10 buckets of
> the
> studio glazes, with little instruction or understanding of how to use
> them. Thick or thin? Over or under? Dipped, sprayed or painted on?
> What oxides washes or slips to use with them? Can you cover up a bad
> form with glaze? On and on. The five quarters of Ceramics that I
> took
> at Portland State years ago did not have any instruction about
> glazing.
> Just - there's the buckets. Go to it. Then put it on a shelf in
> the
> kiln room and maybe it will get fired if the advanced students loading
> the kiln have room for it. Not a good
> way to learn about glaze.
>
> One more thing. Kelly, I apologize to you for my comment about lumpy,
> bumpy cruets on pedestals if you thought I meant the pots you
> shared on
> your blog. I was not talking about your ewer project which I recognize
> as a perfectly legitimate learning process. Pick some small
> complicated form and make as many different shapes as you can think
> of.
> I liked several of them very much. What you were doing is a whole
> different thing from potters latching on to the latest trend and
> battering it to death.
>
> I'm in my 2nd week of after show recovery. It was a good show for me
> with good sales. My pots somehow looked miraculously better in the
> booth than on the racks at home. I do concur with many other potters
> (at our OPA Showcase) and as mentioned here on Clayart, that sales all
> over are waning. My best year was 2003. I'm happy to have some good
> pots for my showroom, and at my age, pleased not to have to rush right
> back into heavy production. Thank goodness for Social Security and
> Medicare. I hope it will still be available for all of you when the
> time comes!
>
> Ellen Currans
>
> Dundee, Oregon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
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> free
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>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
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>
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Ellen Currans on mon 28 may 07
I'm not surprised that most of the discussions on Clayart that turn
into arguments (or worse) have to do with our beliefs that the way we
do things is the only way. I read most of the posts , because I am
still learning after 48 years, and there seems always to be new ways
or better ways to do things. But, I am amused that some people want us
all to do it their way, without considering the vast variety of pottery
making and potters. I pay more attention to those who are actually
doing it and have done it for some years, because experience always
trumps academic teaching in my book. That is why I appreciated the
June CM articles on working potters. They didn't all do it the same
way, but they mostly found practical solutions to make it possible to
keep on. There is no doubt that it is harder to get started or make a
living with pottery now than it was in the 70's and 80's.
I think we should all continue to support CM(PMI) and Claytimes
because they are the only national magazines we have that solely report
on our craft. They are the clearing house for all things ceramic in
the U.S. and we would miss them if they quit publishing. I relate
better to Ceramic Review and Ceramics Technical, but they are
expensive, and do not tell you what is going on in the US. I buy
ceramic magazines for the same reason I take workshops --hoping to find
just a few little bits of information and inspiration I can use in my
own work. We could all do a better job of submitting photos and
articles so they have more to select from.
We seem to have some unwritten hierarchy of value that we place on
potters and their work which creates a problem with self esteem for
many of us. One of my problems with CM is that they are showcasing
work that I don't aspire to, and could not make a living making. But
it is showcased there, which subtly means it is good, and I just have
to deal with it. While making pottery for use that sells is mostly what
the full-time potters I know, still making a living are doing, it is
disparaged as somehow "less" than making one of a kind objects for
galleries. Well, it does keep groceries on the table and allows me to
keep on working with clay. It doesn't mean either, that I don't care
about the quality of each piece I make. A perfect soup bowl or mug is
a delight for both maker and buyer, and always a goal out ahead for me.
I truly think that if you learned to pot using only clay you dug
yourself, hand wedged, thrown on a kick wheel, with just a few bamboo
tools, good for you. If you are a tool freak, as I am, it is no big
deal, just different. If you apprenticed with some well known potter
who imprinted his style on you, so be it, but his way is not the only
way to trim a foot or put on a handle. If you only like anagama fired
pots with no glaze, fine by me. If you can only have an electric kiln
on the back porch and no room to store glaze materials, go ahead and
buy your glazes. If you have a spouse with a good job, who supports
your pottery making in every way, and has family health insurance,
lucky you! It is the intensity of the desire to make things out of
clay, and your willingness to keep learning that makes you a potter
-not whether you are full-time or part-time. The only way you fail is
if you quit making, or if you settle for someone else's ideas of what
is worth making.
Everyone talking about glazes this past week makes sense to me. High
school glazing Mel's way makes sense. Get the basics down solidly.
Good results from a few glazes and learning how to use them before
moving on. What Rick does also makes sense to me in his situation.
The way Aerni glazes (and his great results) also. It is what he has
worked up to over years and lots of pots so that he understands how he
is using them. I have a very clear picture of John Glick glazing in
the middle of what looks like a whole room full of glaze buckets.
Rich, glorious glazing, but he knows what he is doing. I probably have
30 buckets of glaze in my studio, but only use about 8 of them. I go
back from time to time to retest or glaze a few things in an older
glaze, under new firing conditions, and I constantly test for new
glazes or changes in what I have. But the reality is that I can't deal
with too many glazes and still present a consistent body of work that
keeps my customers coming back for more.
For teachers and classroom situations, I think it is a matter of
keeping control, and good solid teaching on glazes. That is missing in
so many ceramic teaching situations. There might be 10 buckets of the
studio glazes, with little instruction or understanding of how to use
them. Thick or thin? Over or under? Dipped, sprayed or painted on?
What oxides washes or slips to use with them? Can you cover up a bad
form with glaze? On and on. The five quarters of Ceramics that I took
at Portland State years ago did not have any instruction about glazing.
Just - there's the buckets. Go to it. Then put it on a shelf in the
kiln room and maybe it will get fired if the advanced students loading
the kiln have room for it. Not a good
way to learn about glaze.
One more thing. Kelly, I apologize to you for my comment about lumpy,
bumpy cruets on pedestals if you thought I meant the pots you shared on
your blog. I was not talking about your ewer project which I recognize
as a perfectly legitimate learning process. Pick some small
complicated form and make as many different shapes as you can think of.
I liked several of them very much. What you were doing is a whole
different thing from potters latching on to the latest trend and
battering it to death.
I'm in my 2nd week of after show recovery. It was a good show for me
with good sales. My pots somehow looked miraculously better in the
booth than on the racks at home. I do concur with many other potters
(at our OPA Showcase) and as mentioned here on Clayart, that sales all
over are waning. My best year was 2003. I'm happy to have some good
pots for my showroom, and at my age, pleased not to have to rush right
back into heavy production. Thank goodness for Social Security and
Medicare. I hope it will still be available for all of you when the
time comes!
Ellen Currans
Dundee, Oregon
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
Donna Kat on mon 28 may 07
Hear! Hear!!
Nicely said. Donna
On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:21:14 -0400, Ellen Currans
wrote:
>I'm not surprised that most of the discussions on Clayart that turn
>into arguments (or worse) have to do with our beliefs that the way we
>do things is the only way. I read most of the posts , because I am
>still learning after 48 years, and there seems always to be new ways
>or better ways to do things. But, I am amused that some people want us
>all to do it their way, without considering the vast variety of pottery
>making and potters. I pay more attention to those who are actually
>doing it and have done it for some years, because experience always
>trumps academic teaching in my book. That is why I appreciated the
>June CM articles on working potters. They didn't all do it the same
>way, but they mostly found practical solutions to make it possible to
>keep on. There is no doubt that it is harder to get started or make a
>living with pottery now than it was in the 70's and 80's.
>
>I think we should all continue to support CM(PMI) and Claytimes
>because they are the only national magazines we have that solely report
>on our craft. They are the clearing house for all things ceramic in
>the U.S. and we would miss them if they quit publishing. I relate
>better to Ceramic Review and Ceramics Technical, but they are
>expensive, and do not tell you what is going on in the US. I buy
>ceramic magazines for the same reason I take workshops --hoping to find
>just a few little bits of information and inspiration I can use in my
>own work. We could all do a better job of submitting photos and
>articles so they have more to select from.
>
>We seem to have some unwritten hierarchy of value that we place on
>potters and their work which creates a problem with self esteem for
>many of us. One of my problems with CM is that they are showcasing
>work that I don't aspire to, and could not make a living making. But
>it is showcased there, which subtly means it is good, and I just have
>to deal with it. While making pottery for use that sells is mostly what
>the full-time potters I know, still making a living are doing, it is
>disparaged as somehow "less" than making one of a kind objects for
>galleries. Well, it does keep groceries on the table and allows me to
>keep on working with clay. It doesn't mean either, that I don't care
>about the quality of each piece I make. A perfect soup bowl or mug is
>a delight for both maker and buyer, and always a goal out ahead for me.
>
>I truly think that if you learned to pot using only clay you dug
>yourself, hand wedged, thrown on a kick wheel, with just a few bamboo
>tools, good for you. If you are a tool freak, as I am, it is no big
>deal, just different. If you apprenticed with some well known potter
>who imprinted his style on you, so be it, but his way is not the only
>way to trim a foot or put on a handle. If you only like anagama fired
>pots with no glaze, fine by me. If you can only have an electric kiln
>on the back porch and no room to store glaze materials, go ahead and
>buy your glazes. If you have a spouse with a good job, who supports
>your pottery making in every way, and has family health insurance,
>lucky you! It is the intensity of the desire to make things out of
>clay, and your willingness to keep learning that makes you a potter
>-not whether you are full-time or part-time. The only way you fail is
>if you quit making, or if you settle for someone else's ideas of what
>is worth making.
>
>Everyone talking about glazes this past week makes sense to me. High
>school glazing Mel's way makes sense. Get the basics down solidly.
>Good results from a few glazes and learning how to use them before
>moving on. What Rick does also makes sense to me in his situation.
>The way Aerni glazes (and his great results) also. It is what he has
>worked up to over years and lots of pots so that he understands how he
>is using them. I have a very clear picture of John Glick glazing in
>the middle of what looks like a whole room full of glaze buckets.
>Rich, glorious glazing, but he knows what he is doing. I probably have
>30 buckets of glaze in my studio, but only use about 8 of them. I go
>back from time to time to retest or glaze a few things in an older
>glaze, under new firing conditions, and I constantly test for new
>glazes or changes in what I have. But the reality is that I can't deal
>with too many glazes and still present a consistent body of work that
>keeps my customers coming back for more.
>
>For teachers and classroom situations, I think it is a matter of
>keeping control, and good solid teaching on glazes. That is missing in
>so many ceramic teaching situations. There might be 10 buckets of the
>studio glazes, with little instruction or understanding of how to use
>them. Thick or thin? Over or under? Dipped, sprayed or painted on?
>What oxides washes or slips to use with them? Can you cover up a bad
>form with glaze? On and on. The five quarters of Ceramics that I took
>at Portland State years ago did not have any instruction about glazing.
> Just - there's the buckets. Go to it. Then put it on a shelf in the
>kiln room and maybe it will get fired if the advanced students loading
>the kiln have room for it. Not a good
>way to learn about glaze.
>
>One more thing. Kelly, I apologize to you for my comment about lumpy,
>bumpy cruets on pedestals if you thought I meant the pots you shared on
>your blog. I was not talking about your ewer project which I recognize
>as a perfectly legitimate learning process. Pick some small
>complicated form and make as many different shapes as you can think of.
> I liked several of them very much. What you were doing is a whole
>different thing from potters latching on to the latest trend and
>battering it to death.
>
>I'm in my 2nd week of after show recovery. It was a good show for me
>with good sales. My pots somehow looked miraculously better in the
>booth than on the racks at home. I do concur with many other potters
>(at our OPA Showcase) and as mentioned here on Clayart, that sales all
>over are waning. My best year was 2003. I'm happy to have some good
>pots for my showroom, and at my age, pleased not to have to rush right
>back into heavy production. Thank goodness for Social Security and
>Medicare. I hope it will still be available for all of you when the
>time comes!
>
>Ellen Currans
>
>Dundee, Oregon
>
>
>
Bonnie Staffel on tue 29 may 07
Ellen, such an perceptive post and even though it was a delightfully =
full
long post, you used paragraphs, (one of my pet peeves with some writers =
on
this list!!) =20
I think we are on the same boat, Ellen. Through my early years I loved =
to
experiment with glaze materials and to see what each recipe would do and
then I started looking for specific qualities. Having found what I =
want, I
now have my base glaze, which acts compatibly with each of the four or =
five
of my other glazes, each one doing something specific, but also giving =
me
surprises depending on the heat and the thickness of the glaze. I =
wanted
first a glaze that I could use for decorating Majolica style only in =
high
fire. I achieved this but also used the base glaze on other work for =
visual
texture.=20
I am at a point in my life where I rarely experiment with new glaze
formulas but try to use what I have in experimental ways. Keeps life
simple. I have some buckets of glazes that I don't use any more and =
hate to
throw away, but will have to one of these days. =20
I have slowly not renewed the subscriptions to some of my past favorite
magazines as I found that I was not using them to equal the value I =
spent
the money for. I enjoy viewing many pots on the Internet, just for a =
new
curve to explore, a new impression tool, or something I find delicious =
to
drool over. That is what is so fascinating about the clay process, it =
is
never ending exploration of form, process and firing. What I love about
primitive firing is that one doesn't have to glaze the pot, which never =
was
my favorite part of the job and the outcome is completely in the hands =
of
the fire. My joy comes from throwing on the wheel, sometimes it's a =
battle,
and sometimes it's a very pleasant ride, never boring. =20
I just read your story on the Internet which was published in PM and =
found
so many similar occurrences in our lives. I also think there is =
something
special about those potters who have to hunker down and figure things =
out
for themselves in order to make a living. There are many obstacles but =
such
joy when you figure out how to overcome them on your own or through such
places as Clayart, which was not available to us in our early careers. =20
So Ellen, thank you for your thoughts and success in whatever you find =
joy
in doing in your work.
Bonnie Staffel=20
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
primalmommy on tue 29 may 07
Ellen Currans wrote:
>One more thing. Kelly, I apologize to you for my comment about lumpy,
>bumpy cruets on pedestals if you thought I meant the pots you shared on
>your blog. I was not talking about your ewer project which I recognize
>as a perfectly legitimate learning process. Pick some small
>complicated form and make as many different shapes as you can think of.
>I liked several of them very much. What you were doing is a whole
>different thing from potters latching on to the latest trend and
>battering it to death.
Ellen, this is a good connection to the other clayart thread on "self
esteem". I have more than I deserve, so I'm not overly sensitive about
the honesty of my peers! I woudn't have made it a week in Diana P's
program, otherwise.
Comments like yours are exactly what I am looking for when I put my work
out there. A lot of what I am learning through trial and error is borne
out by what you wrote. Like... hmmmm, this little thing is hard to fill.
And this one dribbles, and this one pours too fast for soy, too slow for
oil. And this one won't sit on a refrigerator shelf, so am I really
supposed to pour the soy in and out of it every time I serve?
And thus far I have never managed to sell one so it's not likely to be a
hot market item, either!
But like you say, I'm in academic mode right now and consider it a
limited time foray into the impractical. And I am just in love with
making these little forms, good, bad or indifferent. The bottom two
shelves of my big kiln are full of them right now, and they feel good to
me, like jars of homemade jam lining the pantry shelves or some other
labor of love that slowly builds to critical mass. I make maybe a dozen
in a weekend, and they are never alike -- but they are starting to fall
into families, all by themselves, and evolve in random directions. This
kind of work best suits my attention span.
Anyway I laughed when I read your initial comment, and David's as well.
I have no sacred cows, and have cultivated a healthy distance between my
pots and my soul ;0)
So no worries. Honesty is refreshing, and ewers ARE impractical as hell.
They just look so quirky and charming perched next to the sushi platter.
Yours
Kelly in Ohio... back from a rainy Memorial day weekend at the lake with
my parents and grandma, where we played cards, and poker, and scrabble,
and Racko, and some geography game where the kids kept beating the
adults. The sun came out yesterday as we came back to Toledo for a BBQ
with friends. They had invited ten adults and ten kids, and we all ended
up playing a huffing, puffing, sweaty, exciting game of "Capture the
Flag" on the Maumee library lawn. It's a long time since I crept through
the bushes, heart pounding, waiting for someone to distract the guard so
I could free my tagged teammates from "jail".
Somehow Molly ended up with a new kitten named "peekaboo" in the course
of our visit. So keeping them all focused on their schooling today has
been a challenge!
BTW -- Julie Beutler gives good workshops. Who's coming to Nick Joerling
at the 577 besides me?
http://www.primalpotter.com
Protect your home before it is too late. Click here for homeowner
insurance information.
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