pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on wed 30 may 07
Hi Ivor, all...
Below...just for fun...amid...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ivor and Olive Lewis"
>
>
> If Chooks and other fowls did not eat Grit they would lay shell-less eggs.
As far as I know, the Calcium ( Magnesium, Phospherous, Boron, Manganese
etc. ) resiviors
which are drawn on for the production of Egg Shells in Avian metabolism, are
the Hen's own Bones.
Sources of dietary Calcium et al ( when assimilated correctly, ) replenish
the Skeletal resiviors, but are
not associated with direct production of Egg Shells per-se.
Generally, at leat in wild or feral individuals whose rigours of Life leave
far less room for bad health than domestic situations do, Calcium
deficiencys severe enough to interfere with Egg shell
produciton
would also manifest in various Nerve and Muscle and Organ or even Skeletal
problems, and would likely
cause the Hen to be compromised for basic Living and survival, before
manifestly effecting the Egg shells...which Eggs at that point, probably
would not be produced.
Infections or problems in the Oviduct, as may arise from deteriorated or
compromised health
and compromised or deficient immune function, or other system's problems,
can effect the
quality of Egg Shells, as
can some antibiotics, DDT and other pestacides, heavy Metals, or other
toxins which can
accumulate in their system from eating tainted Grains, Plant materials or
Insects or as may be.
> they need a constant supply of shell grit which is why some birds really
> gorge themselves on snails.
Well...some Omniverous or Carniverous Birds will eat Snails, and the Calcium
Carbonate of
the Snail Shells will, when in combinaiton with other dietary factors, be to
some small extent assimilated and contributed to their Calcium ( et al )
resiviors
of their own Skeletans.
Birds of either gender require Calcium continuously, but of course Hens of
reproductive
age or phase will require a great deal more.
As Bird's diets will vary with their Species' established conventions, the
sources of dietary Calcium will vary.
Generally, Calcium uptake or assimilation is very discrete and slight, and
is happiest that way, regardless of the ostensible amounts present in
dietary intakes.
High Calcium intakes are far more likely to make problems, than to reliably
maintain healthy levels or conditions...and a slow incidental Calcium intake
combined with appropriate complimentary elements, will tend to be by far the
most efecient, reliable and healthful, and the least strain on the delicay
of the
'mechanism' of it's assimilation, use, storage, or replenishment.
Probably the Birds eating Snails are not assimilating hardly any of the
Calcium in the Snail's Shells, but instead are after and making use of the
other nutritional elements present in the Snail's body and internal organs,
and the possibly the equally important residuals of the Snail's diet,
present in the Snail's Stomach and Intestines.
For Pigeons and Doves, the sources of Calcium are various small Seeds,
'green' small fruiting bodys of various plants ( ie: not fallen
or seasoned )...and various fresh
Greens as the Leaves and other parts of various Plants themselves.
These are about the same ( and most effecient ) sources to which people had
traditionally appealed
for their Calcium and other nutritive elements...if with people tending to
also eat larger Fruits than
the Columbiformes ( Pigeons and Doves variously ) may, or do.
Normally, the Grit which ( non domesticated and hence brousing Natural
diet ) Birds may eat for aiding their Gizzards, will not contain Calcium.
Calcium requires other molecules or elements in order to be assimilated, and
moreso, in order to be assimilated constructively to optimal levels or
extents and balances, and or to be assimilated correctly and at the optimum
pace, and these other elements or molecules are found in fresh Greens, and
fresh Fruits and Seeds of various kinds, even as is adequate Calcium itself.
Consuming conspicuous Calcium sources or suppliments will do little to
benifit the Creature consuming them, unless the Creature is both seriously
deficient, and, the high Calcium sources are combined with other necessary
elements/molecules, and their system can handle the elevated levels and
effort of assimilating without mis-hap...or, excess of Calcium, with or
without ancillary or complimentary
elements to aid in proper assimilation, can or reliably will, result in
degenerative conditions of various Organs, Nerves, Bones
and Skeletal Joints.
Generally, we, or Birds, are better off obtaining Calcium from Vegetative
( Leaves, Fruits, Seeds...) sources, or, in the case of true Carnivores,
from the Stomachs and Intestines and Bones of their prey when in
combination... or, if Vegan, augmented if need be, by small amounts of raw
Earth
suppliments ( Dolomite and other kindred minerals ) when combined with other
necessary molecules and elements, when browsing in regions whose Vegetation
is
Calcium deficient.
Elephants, while of course different than Birds, may be imagined to have
quite impressive Calcium needs, and they manage quite nicely on various low
arid Brush and other approximately meager or deficient Vegetation...while
seeking out
naturally occuring Mineral deposits also, as supplimental sources.
Too much protean interferes with Calcium assimilation, as will other
excesses and lacks which are typical of industrialized domesticated Animal
or people-animal
diets.
'Milk' and related Bovine Dairy products, ( when not that of a Mammal Mother
nursing her own Babys, and for what would be the sensible time duration of
that, ) interferes with and is inimical to Calcium assimilation, and causes
a variety of inimical Calcium related conditions.
The actual fact of habitual and frequent 'Milk' ( and other 'Dairy'
product ) consumption by people, is to deplete their Calcium reserves, and
to make problems with their Calcium assimilations and storage, and
also to compromise or de-rail various other discrete metabolic functions,
and to
engender there-by, a wide variety of progressive degenerative conditions.
> A good source of calcium.
Ideally, the best and most practical and assimilable sources of Calcium, and
those least likely to cause problems, are
Vegetative sources - and, as merely sundry on-going dietary staples, being
various orders of Fruiting Bodys, Seeds, and Leaves...
> Without teeth, they also have a bit of a problem masticating their food.
Well, no...they do not have a problem, and in fact their mastications are
typically far more effecient than those of Mammals...
It is not that they have a problem in any manner regarding mastication, but
rather, they have a different method or
system or convention for mastication, than Mammals do.
A 'Gizzard', or 'Ventriculus', is in effect a masticating second Stomach,
highly muscular, and typically lined with Keritinaceous 'plates' for
contracting strongly or kneading against it's Contents, which contents of
course may include small roundish Stones to aid in the 'grinding'
process...and, the Ventriculus occurs between their initial Stomach, or
Proventriculus, and, their Intestines.
One could say a Gizzard is in effect, a sort of muscular device, which
attains those same kinds of results, for which a Ball Mill is used, and, by
a similar method.
Many Birds did possess Teeth until rather 'recently', Paleontologically
speaking, and neither they nor their construed ancestors may be understood
to have ever used their Teeth for mastication.
Too, a 'Beak' is no mere appendage assuming the place of Bone Mandibles.
A 'Beak' is a Keritinaceous sheath, covering what are true Bone Mandibles.
'Birds', or Aves, are the extant, surviving 'branches' of Maniraptorid
Coelurosaurs, and as such, retain those conventions which characterized
their broader kinds for several hundred million years, or at least for as
far back as can be discovered.
There is no suggestion that any Theropod/Coelurosaurs ever possessed Teeth
which were used for chewing or masticating their food, even when believed to
be Vegetarian kinds of Creatures who browsed only upon foliage and Plants,
but rather, whether possessing Teeth or not, their food was always
masticated in their Gizzards, and with this process being augmented by
including the use of Stones whose sizes would be elected to suit the scale
of Gizzard one has, is one of their ancient and on-going conventions. And,
the Stones of course wear down and wear away, and are renewed as the
Coelurosaur sees fit.
> So
> they collect stones and other hard stuff in their gizzards.
Well, they sometimes can make ill-advised choises in this regard, and the
non-stone foreign object - especially if metallic - once in their Gizzard,
can make serious problems or result in death.
> The muscular
> contractions of this organ assist grit and stone to liquefy their food.
Yes...or if not to per-se liquefy, but to grind into a very fine paste
consistency, in liquid digestive 'juices', for things to be as efficient as
possible for the rest of the
assimilation process in their Intestines.
A very elegant and efficient manner of managing the tasks.
> Information is never useless is it.
No, but some days, I am 'useless'...
Lol...
I will see if that might not be the case to-day, since I have a Carpentry
Job of setting a Swamp Cooler onto a Roof of an old House, and getting it
running for the people to enjoy some cool Air indoors.
And I told them I would commence sometime mid-afternoon when it is nice and
'hot'
out.
Best wishes..!
Phil
Las Vee
> Best regards,
> Ivor
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