tony clennell on thu 12 jul 07
Dear Clayart: Every summer about this time there is a
scare of the Chinese boogeyman. I write in every
summer and say what craftsperson making orginal work
has anything to worry about? If you make interesting
work it is likely always changing anyways and I don't
think that the $$$ is in being orginal. It is in
repetition.
I go to crafts fairs now and see horrible copies of
fine North Americans work made by other North
Americans. At least the Chinese have a couple of
thousand years of skill so the copies will be finely
done.
Maybe pottery from China will purge our market of the
ones that really ought to be considered light
manufacturers and not studio potters. Name your
favourite studio potter! Think about their work! Do
you really think it could be copied???
Heck, I've been copying Chinese pots for years so I
figure I owe them a pot or two.
When my uncle and aunt started making pots 60 years
ago you had to make a BIG committment. No wheels. no
kilns, no clay, no materials and no market. They were
pioneers. Maybe it's coming full circle. The market is
in higher end work. There seems to be lots of room at
the top but the lower end is going to take a butt
kickin from the boogey man from China .
I'm looking forward to being at the Jindezhen Ceramic
Festival with 600 suppliers and 3000 dealers. I 'll
report back to y'all. I dunno, I'm just thinkin'.
I stiil think this could be very good for the craft of
the potter.
Cheers,
Tony
> togeika@CLAYCRAFT.ORG writes:
>
> I saw something like this on Japanese T.V. It is
> only a matter
> of time before we are flooded by very cheap
> Chinese handmade work.
> Watch the craft fairs fill up with perfect copies
> of of American
> work!
>
> John, Ron, Mona, are you translated into
> Chinese!?!?!
>
>
Tony Clennell
Studio potter
http://sourcherrypottery.com
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Janet Starr on tue 17 jul 07
A few years ago I did my one try at a big wholesale tile show. The owner of
a store that I had heard of came by and told me that he liked my tiles. I
asked him if he wanted to carry them, and he replied that they were too
expensive. He came back later with a guy from China to show him my tiles
and asked him right in front of me if he could duplicate my glazes. This
store owner has since come out with a line of 'Arts & Crafts' solid field
tiles. They are not quite my colors, but I wonder at the sheer audacity of
this rude man.
Janet
--
Janet Starr
www.craftsmantiles.com
www.featuretile.com
featuretile@gmail.com
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 18 jul 07
I have been to the Ceramic City of Jingdezhen and I can tell you that North
American Buyers were nowhere to be seen. Most of the ceramic produced in
Jingdezhen goes to markets in China and the Pacific Rim areas. I seldom
see the giant Jingdezhen vases in the homes of North Americans.
Most reproductions of North American ceramics are now carried out in
the south of China with royalties paid the artist who conceived
them. I have a potter friend who has her work reproduced by the
container load. I would be very happy to be asked by the Chinese to
make prototypes for mass production.
The $45.00 five piece setting found at Wal-Mart does not bother me
as I know that Chinese workers are giving their lives making many of
the inexpensive products that I use every day. If they ever stop
manufacturing, we in North America will be in deep ?&%%(*.
Another point that should be mentioned is that much of the pottery produced
by the studio potters in China is very well crafted and is also very
expensive. The Chinese people are very particular about
the quality of their daily ceramic products. I watched one customer,
who was looking to buy a simple bowl, spend about an hour judging the
quality of the work in front of him. We are the ones accepting lower
quality less expensive work.
Chinese Food for thought.
Terrance
Visit Terry's website at http://clayart.ca
Lee Love on wed 18 jul 07
On 7/18/07, Terrance Lazaroff wrote:
>
> Another point that should be mentioned is that much of the pottery produced
> by the studio potters in China is very well crafted and is also very
> expensive. The Chinese people are very particular about
> the quality of their daily ceramic products. I watched one customer,
> who was looking to buy a simple bowl, spend about an hour judging the
> quality of the work in front of him. We are the ones accepting lower
> quality less expensive work.
North America is a pretty big place. Here in the Twin
Cities, there is a large community of folks, well educated about
ceramics and willing to pay good money for skillful work. From what
I have been exposed to the same is true in the North West, California
and NYC.
On the coasts, part of it is the large communities of people
with a heritage in good ceramics. Here in Minnesota, a lot of it is
to do with the promotion and education done by Warren MacKenzie.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Lee Love on wed 18 jul 07
On 7/12/07, tony clennell wrote:
> Dear Clayart: Every summer about this time there is a
> scare of the Chinese boogeyman.
Tony. Did you see the original post I responded to? Part of the
tour was to find a factory to make cheap copies of YOUR work. That's
what I was referring to. What you have to be concerned about, just
like the conventions I saw on NHK, is that in a country that does not
respect intellectual rights, you cannot trust that copies of your work
are ONLY going to be made for you.
I think it is the same in most of Asia, you can only be
assured that your intellectual property will be respected if you have
a personal relationship with the factory working with you.
Tony. Tell us what the food is like for you once you get
there. More exotic than bait I am sure! ;^)
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Donald Burroughs on fri 20 jul 07
"The $45.00 five piece setting found at Wal-Mart does not bother me
as I know that Chinese workers are giving their lives making many of
the inexpensive products that I use every day." "We are the ones
accepting lower quality less expensive work."
Quoted from Terry Lazaroff
"he replied that they were too expensive. He came back later with a guy
from China to show him my tiles and asked him right in front of me if he
could duplicate my glazes."
Quoted from Janet Starr
I feel really obligated to weigh in on this topic of the Chinese knock-
off / north american acceptance of the cheap faux aesthetic. Lee is right
in saying that we eg.; others like Mackenzie have developed the aesthetic
in our local buying public to a greater or lessor extent. That is also the
responsibility of the various arts and crafts associations/agencies. This
is not solely done on principles of aesthetics, but equally so in a silent
manner from an economic perspective. The making of art and craft is by and
large a way to make a living making beautiful objects with pleasing
results for both maker and purchaser.
When the buying public accepts "that $45.00 five piece setting at Wal-
Mart" they do so primarily to save a buck, and secondly because it looks
good. What they do not realise is they are getting cheap goods based on a
secret slave labour market (see links below ) of " Chinese
workers...giving their lives making many of the inexpensive products
{used} everyday". Terry you are right. Chinese citizens are giving their
lives quite literally. While these are brick kilns, we should also be
questioning all aspects of an economy based on false labour standards (or
none at all). We are all guilty of this practice to some degree (mea
culpa) and the following should stories should make us thing twice.
http://www.csr-asia.com/index.php?p=10168
http://www.csr-asia.com/index.php?p=10194
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/06/29/china-labour-laws.html#skip300x250
http://www.truthaboutchina.com/archives/human_rights/
As for that cad of a wholesaler being so blatantly crass and intimidating
to Janet, I hope he chokes on some grout. That type mentality is percisely
what is attempting to destroy the small specialized arts manufacturing
sector whether it be pottery or in her case tile.
When a wholesaler/customer does this they expect high quality at the
lowest possible price and Chinese manufacturers are only too willing to do
so even on the back of child/slave labour.
Donald Burroughs
Charles Hightower on fri 20 jul 07
Why on earth would he not have punched him in the
face?
--- Donald Burroughs wrote:
> "The $45.00 five piece setting found at Wal-Mart
> does not bother me
> as I know that Chinese workers are giving their
> lives making many of
> the inexpensive products that I use every day." "We
> are the ones
> accepting lower quality less expensive work."
> Quoted from Terry Lazaroff
>
>
> "he replied that they were too expensive. He came
> back later with a guy
> from China to show him my tiles and asked him right
> in front of me if he
> could duplicate my glazes."
> Quoted from Janet Starr
>
> I feel really obligated to weigh in on this topic of
> the Chinese knock-
> off / north american acceptance of the cheap faux
> aesthetic. Lee is right
> in saying that we eg.; others like Mackenzie have
> developed the aesthetic
> in our local buying public to a greater or lessor
> extent. That is also the
> responsibility of the various arts and crafts
> associations/agencies. This
> is not solely done on principles of aesthetics, but
> equally so in a silent
> manner from an economic perspective. The making of
> art and craft is by and
> large a way to make a living making beautiful
> objects with pleasing
> results for both maker and purchaser.
>
> When the buying public accepts "that $45.00 five
> piece setting at Wal-
> Mart" they do so primarily to save a buck, and
> secondly because it looks
> good. What they do not realise is they are getting
> cheap goods based on a
> secret slave labour market (see links below ) of "
> Chinese
> workers...giving their lives making many of the
> inexpensive products
> {used} everyday". Terry you are right. Chinese
> citizens are giving their
> lives quite literally. While these are brick kilns,
> we should also be
> questioning all aspects of an economy based on false
> labour standards (or
> none at all). We are all guilty of this practice to
> some degree (mea
> culpa) and the following should stories should make
> us thing twice.
>
> http://www.csr-asia.com/index.php?p=10168
> http://www.csr-asia.com/index.php?p=10194
>
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/06/29/china-labour-laws.html#skip300x250
>
http://www.truthaboutchina.com/archives/human_rights/
>
> As for that cad of a wholesaler being so blatantly
> crass and intimidating
> to Janet, I hope he chokes on some grout. That type
> mentality is percisely
> what is attempting to destroy the small specialized
> arts manufacturing
> sector whether it be pottery or in her case tile.
> When a wholesaler/customer does this they expect
> high quality at the
> lowest possible price and Chinese manufacturers are
> only too willing to do
> so even on the back of child/slave labour.
>
> Donald Burroughs
>
>
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Lee Love on fri 20 jul 07
On 7/20/07, Donald Burroughs wrote:
> When a wholesaler/customer does this they expect high quality at the
> lowest possible price and Chinese manufacturers are only too willing to do
> so even on the back of child/slave labour.
We have to realize, that their ain't no free lunch. Folks often
seem to think they are entitled to cheap prices and are not aware of
their human costs.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts." -
Henry David Thoreau
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
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