Jim Willett on thu 12 jul 07
In 1995 Cindy Clarke started a new pottery she named Out of the Fire in
Dawson Creek British Columbia. Over the years the enterprise grew. I
joined her in 1999 and Out of the Fire became a major production pottery
in Edmonton, Alberta with over forty retail clients and production figures
of over ten tons of clay per year turned into pots by our four hands. In
the process we established an international presence through internet
sales with hundreds of pots shipped all around the world, to almost every
state in the United States. We have released a DVD entitled "A Down to
Earth Look at How We Make Pottery" and hundreds of copies have been mailed
out and also sold by pottery supply houses, including Kick Wheel Pottery
in Tucker Georgia. Thousands of people have viewed our Youtube videos, all
giving credit to Out of the Fire Studio .We are very much still in
business in Edmonton, selling retail and wholesale and through the
internet. We receive pottery related phonecalls and emails every day
because of our strong web presence.....so you can understand our dismay
when we received notice of the upcoming workshop in Georgia entitled "Out
of the Fire". We contacted the organizers, ACERS, and the venue to express
our concern and to request at the very least a disclaimer stating that we
are not affiliated with the workshop and will not be in attendance.To date
we have not seen a response to that request. I'm sure if the workshop was
called the "Sour Cherry Pottery Workshop" or the "Melspots Symposium"
there would be a bit of an uproar. So my question for discussion is
this..."What's in a Name?"
Jim Willett
Out of the Fire Studio
12214 Jasper Avenue
Edmonton, Alberta
http://www.outofthefirestudio.com
http://www.howtomakepottery.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lnPOOfIJeM
tony clennell on fri 13 jul 07
Jim: Just as in pottery it has all been done before.
In fact Out of the Fire is not orginal to you and
Cindy. Out of the Fire was the name of a pottery
conference put on by the the Ontario Potters
Association in the mid to late 70's.
As for someone using Sour Cherry for the the name of
their conference there would be Sour Grapes from us.
People would just think we've gone international. More
press for us.
Sour Cherry Power!
Tony
--- Jim Willett wrote:
> In 1995 Cindy Clarke started a new pottery she named
> Out of the Fire We have released a DVD
> entitled "A Down to
> Earth Look at How We Make Pottery" and hundreds of
> copies have been mailed
> out and also sold by pottery supply houses,
> including Kick Wheel Pottery
> in Tucker Georgia. Thousands of people have viewed
> our Youtube videos, all
> giving credit to Out of the Fire Studio .> when we
received notice of the upcoming workshop in
> Georgia entitled "Out
> of the Fire". We contacted the organizers, ACERS,
> and the venue to express
> our concern and to request at the very least a
> disclaimer stating that we
> are not affiliated with the workshop and will not be
> in attendance.To date
> we have not seen a response to that request. I'm
> sure if the workshop was
> called the "Sour Cherry Pottery Workshop" or the
> "Melspots Symposium"
> there would be a bit of an uproar. So my question
> for discussion is
> this..."What's in a Name?"
>
Tony Clennell
Studio potter
http://sourcherrypottery.com
____________________________________________________________________________________
8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
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David Hendley on sat 14 jul 07
I agree with Elizabeth; if you name your pottery shop something
like "The Potter's Wheel", "Born of the Earth", "Earthworks",
"Mud Dauber", "Earth Fire and Water" "Clay Creations" or, yes,
"Out of the Fire", then you can be assured that someone else will
come up with (and already has come up with) the same name for
another studio or clay related enterprise.
I seriously doubt that anyone who receives notice of a conference
titled "Out of the Fire" in Georgia will think that it would have
anything to do with a pottery studio in Canada. Even if they did
at first glance, a quick reading would tell exactly who will be
at the conference and why it is so named. Honestly, I don't
understand your dismay and why you think the title of this
conference will harm or even effect you in any way.
The title of your DVD, "Down to Earth", is in this same category
of common names for clay-related enterprises. If I were a betting
man, I would bet the house that there were already several
pottery studios called "Down to Earth" before you made your
video. Did you contact them before you published it, and include
a disclaimer on the DVD?
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david(at)farmpots(dot)com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> In 1995 Cindy Clarke started a new pottery she named Out of the Fire in
> Dawson Creek British Columbia. Over the years the enterprise grew. I
> joined her in 1999 and Out of the Fire became a major production pottery
> in Edmonton, Alberta with over forty retail clients and production figures
> of over ten tons of clay per year turned into pots by our four hands. In
> the process we established an international presence through internet
> sales with hundreds of pots shipped all around the world, to almost every
> state in the United States. We have released a DVD entitled "A Down to
> Earth Look at How We Make Pottery" and hundreds of copies have been mailed
> out and also sold by pottery supply houses, including Kick Wheel Pottery
> in Tucker Georgia. Thousands of people have viewed our Youtube videos, all
> giving credit to Out of the Fire Studio .We are very much still in
> business in Edmonton, selling retail and wholesale and through the
> internet. We receive pottery related phonecalls and emails every day
> because of our strong web presence.....so you can understand our dismay
> when we received notice of the upcoming workshop in Georgia entitled "Out
> of the Fire". We contacted the organizers, ACERS, and the venue to express
> our concern and to request at the very least a disclaimer stating that we
> are not affiliated with the workshop and will not be in attendance.To date
> we have not seen a response to that request. I'm sure if the workshop was
> called the "Sour Cherry Pottery Workshop" or the "Melspots Symposium"
> there would be a bit of an uproar. So my question for discussion is
> this..."What's in a Name?"
>
> Jim Willett
> Out of the Fire Studio
Chuck Wagoner on sat 14 jul 07
I'm always surprised that there are not more "Mud Doctors" out there.
Chuck a.k.a. "The Mud Doctor"
...of course in Indiana we say "Out of the Farr"
=========================================================================
"Out of the Fire", then you can be assured that someone else will
come up with (and already has come up with) the same name for
another studio or clay related enterprise.
Tom at Hutchtel.net on sat 14 jul 07
Jim,
I have to go along with Tony here. As for books, Mim Obstler has Out of the
Fire long ago.
To challenge your use of a name, all someone has to do is prove prior usage
and your registration is caput. In the US, basically you get registration
for one state, if you decide to register it with the Secretary of State
office.
US registration is a filing, but it doesn't guarantee that you are the sole
user. They can't possibly check all the states for prior usage. As a
trademark, if you aren't showing the TM Reg. mark everywhere you use it, it
really isn't defensible.
The most defensible Trademarks are those which aren't just a collection of
everyday words, but are made up. Actually, at one time, Tony & Sheila were
going to call their operation Oot O' the Fyre.
Best
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Out of the Fire
> Jim: Just as in pottery it has all been done before.
> In fact Out of the Fire is not orginal to you and
> Cindy. Out of the Fire was the name of a pottery
> conference put on by the the Ontario Potters
> Association in the mid to late 70's.
> --- Jim Willett wrote:
>> In 1995 Cindy Clarke started a new pottery she named
>> Out of the Fire.> when we
> received notice of the upcoming workshop in
>> Georgia entitled "Out
>> of the Fire".
sacredclay on sun 15 jul 07
Originally, I came up with "Turtle Rock Studio" years ago becasue I
love turtles and I just kept thinking about the Rolling Rock beverages.
Then after I moved to Charlotte, there's a development named Turtle
Rock Community. I didn't want to be know as a piece of land. Thought
about Sacredmud and googled it. Someone else has that so I decided on
Sacredclay, as there doesn't seem to be any other on the web.
Sacredclay, Sacredmud, it can be even Sacredshit for all I care, but
the important thing is, I don't think anyone else will get mixed up
with any other normal organization and "that Sacrednut in NC". I might
get a "tad" upset if someone used MY moniker, but then again, that's
why I'm taking Prozac to stay calm. With millions and millions of
people on Gaia, something is bound to be burped up more than once.
Kathryn Hughes in NC
Bonnie Hellman on sun 15 jul 07
Hi Everyone,
I am not an attorney, but my lay understanding is that before any business
starts to use a name that is NOT your own name (usually called a fictitious
name), you would want to register it in your state. Sorry, I don't know
about Canada.
The rules vary as to what is allowed, and how similar 2 unrelated company
fictitious names can be in different states.
In general if your business name uses your name, whether it's your first
name, nickname, last name or combination of your names does not require
registering a fictitious name. So I could call my ceramics business any of
the following: Bonnie's Clay, Bonnie's Ceramics Studio, Bonnie Hellman's
Studio and the like, but if I want to name my business by my location or
something else, I will need to register it with my state.
Colorado and many other states have a searchable listing online that lets
you determine if your name choice is available.
When we relocated my husband's corporation from Pennsylvania and Colorado, I
found that his corporate name, registered in PA, was taken by someone else
in CO, and we had to change his corporate name.
BTW, by definition all corporations and partnerships use fictitious names.
My advice to anyone establishing a business would be at least consult your
state's information on fictitious names on the official web site, and if
necessary to consult an attorney.
In theory, only one business in each state could legally use "Out of the
Fire" although it is possible in some states (including PA) that someone
could be "Out of the Fire" (a sole proprietorship) and another business
could be "Out of the Fire, Inc.".
Bonnie
Bonnie D. Hellman, CPA in CO & PA
Ouray, Colorado 81427
----- Original Message -----
From: "sacredclay"
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: What's in a Name? Out of the Fire
Originally, I came up with "Turtle Rock Studio" years ago becasue I
love turtles and I just kept thinking about the Rolling Rock beverages.
Then after I moved to Charlotte, there's a development named Turtle
Rock Community. I didn't want to be know as a piece of land. Thought
about Sacredmud and googled it. Someone else has that so I decided on
Sacredclay, as there doesn't seem to be any other on the web.
Sacredclay, Sacredmud, it can be even Sacredshit for all I care, but
the important thing is, I don't think anyone else will get mixed up
with any other normal organization and "that Sacrednut in NC". I might
get a "tad" upset if someone used MY moniker, but then again, that's
why I'm taking Prozac to stay calm. With millions and millions of
people on Gaia, something is bound to be burped up more than once.
Kathryn Hughes in NC
______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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Anne Webb on tue 17 jul 07
JimI think most people can differentiate between a workshop called "Out of =
the Fire" (and there have been many) and "Out of the fire Studio", the enti=
ty you have trademarked in Canada.. I know I can. The workshop you're talk=
ing about is all the way in Georgia, and you are vitually on the other side=
of the continent over there in Edmonton. Please don't be insulted but do y=
ou honestly think that you have enough international notoriety that people =
are going to associate you with this workshop? .. or that it will defame th=
e reputation of your studio? Besides.. "Out of the Fire" is not new; its be=
en used time and time again for workshops, exhibitions, and, I am sure, oth=
er studio names. You are going to have to expect some overlapping and I do=
n't know how you can not expect that. I wouldn't get worked up about it un=
less people were blatantly trying to impersonate you. Someone once told me=
that if you wanted a distinctive studio name, one that would always stic=
k with you no matter where you went or moved to, that you should use your o=
wn name. Its not as flashy or cute, but it would in the long run be more m=
emorable, leave less doubt for who the actual artist is, and stands the tes=
t of time. I don't know.. sometimes simplicity is best.Cheers!Anne > > > -=
-- Jim Willett wrote:> > > In 1995 Cindy Clarke sta=
rted a new pottery she named> > Out of the Fire We have released a DVD> > e=
ntitled "A Down to> > Earth Look at How We Make Pottery" and hundreds of> >=
copies have been mailed> > out and also sold by pottery supply houses,> > =
including Kick Wheel Pottery> > in Tucker Georgia. Thousands of people have=
viewed> > our Youtube videos, all> > giving credit to Out of the Fire Stud=
io .> when we> received notice of the upcoming workshop in> > Georgia entit=
led "Out> > of the Fire". We contacted the organizers, ACERS,> > and the ve=
nue to express> > our concern and to request at the very least a> > disclai=
mer stating that we> > are not affiliated with the workshop and will not be=
> > in attendance.To date> > we have not seen a response to that request. I=
'm> > sure if the workshop was> > called the "Sour Cherry Pottery Workshop"=
or the> > "Melspots Symposium"> > there would be a bit of an uproar. So my=
question> > for discussion is> > this..."What's in a Name?"> >> > > Tony C=
lennell> Studio potter> http://sourcherrypottery.com> > > > _______________=
_____________________________________________________________________> 8:00=
? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time> with the Yahoo! Search movie showtim=
e shortcut.> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news> > _____________=
_________________________________________________________________> Send pos=
tings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org> > You may look at the archives for the l=
ist or change your subscription> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clay=
art/> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots=
@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!=A0=A0
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=3Dchick_wlmailtextlink=
claystevslat on wed 18 jul 07
Weeks of this have gone by. I did a google search; there's a wine
bar in Easton, Md. by this name, a chapter in "Harry Potter and the
Order of the Phoenix," a made-for-TV movie from decades ago, Rick
Spurgin's backup band, and a Time Magazine article from 1943 about
the sole survivor of the Cocoanut Grove fire in Boston. And several
hundred thousand other hits.
As some of us will recall, Donald Trump recently tried to
copyright the phrase "you're fired." His lawyers were willing to
file the papers, but of course he couldn't possibly enforce a
copyright anything so common -- people have been saying the phrase
for many years.
As it happens, a potter in the midwest had already copyrighted the
phrase for her pottery. Trump's lawyers didn't find that an
obstacle, as the other use of the phrase didn't conflict with his
usage.
And so it goes with "out of the fire." It's a common enough phrase
and if you use it for your business, you gain advantage from it's
memorability, and the lack of uniqueness means you will never be
uniquely named.
It's not easy to be unique and memorable both. When I got my
business license, I tried to register the name "Flying Hippo
Pottery." Turns out it was already taken. So was "Froggy Bottom
Pottery." These things happen.
-- Steve S
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