Geoffrey Barst on mon 3 sep 07
Exhaust port size is important. If the gas flows in & can't escape, very
soon the pressure in the kiln will exceed the pressure of your gas supply.
Try making a bigger escape route.
Geoff Barst
Forrest on mon 3 sep 07
Thanks. I ran it wide open; there are two largish holes in the top and two
regular size peep holes on the side. I may try one more time before getting
new burners.
Rosemary
On 9/3/07 12:51 PM, "Geoffrey Barst" wrote:
> Exhaust port size is important. If the gas flows in & can't escape, very
> soon the pressure in the kiln will exceed the pressure of your gas supply.
> Try making a bigger escape route.
>
> Geoff Barst
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Paul Vernier on thu 6 sep 07
Rosemary,
In a prior post you referred to a low pressure regulator. If this is a
traditional low pressure regulator that is found on appliances such as hot
water heaters and barbecues you are getting about 1/2 psi. If this is the
case. That's the problem. I have fired an Olympic kiln with the same
questionable burners and have made it to cone 10 every time. I have also
used the kiln for raku. After the initial load have fired to temp in 15
minutes. All this using less than the 5 psi the Baso valve allows.
Paul
>Thanks. I ran it wide open; there are two largish holes in the top and two
>regular size peep holes on the side. I may try one more time before getting
>new burners.
>
>Rosemary
>
>
John Connolly on fri 7 sep 07
"Re: Raku kiln not reaching temperature Posted by: "Paul Vernier" pvernier@CISCO.COM Thu Sep 6, 2007 10:47 am (PST) Rosemary,
In a prior post you referred to a low pressure regulator. If this is a
traditional low pressure regulator that is found on appliances such as hot
water heaters and barbecues you are getting about 1/2 psi. If this is the
case. That's the problem. I have fired an Olympic kiln with the same
questionable burners and have made it to cone 10 every time. I have also
used the kiln for raku. After the initial load have fired to temp in 15
minutes. All this using less than the 5 psi the Baso valve allows.
Paul"
I think "low-pressure regulator" in raku applications with propane is usually of the 15 inches of water variety. I have been driving myself to distraction trying to find such and animal in Mexico, but it seems no one uses them here. That means a hated trip to the border and beyond.
John Connolly in Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico
---------------------------------
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.
John Connolly on sat 8 sep 07
"Posted by: "Forrest" razz51@COMCAST.NET Sat Sep 8, 2007 7:15 pm (PST) John,
I've 'bout had it with mine! Seriously, I'm probably going to replace it
with a high pressure regulator with a gauge, like I'm used to. If I do,
want me to my old regulator to you?
Rosemary"
Thanks Rosemary, but I guese I was less than clear. It's the gauge that I lack and cannot find. What I need is a 0-15 inches of water. No way to replicate without the gauge. It is fun to try to describe a gauge to non-english speakers. I find that one palm becomes the indicator and the index finger of the other hand waves back and forth to indicate movement on it. I'm told the proper word is "regulador", but that never seems to work.
John Connolly in Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico
---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
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Forrest on sat 8 sep 07
John,
I've 'bout had it with mine! Seriously, I'm probably going to replace it
with a high pressure regulator with a gauge, like I'm used to. If I do,
want me to my old regulator to you?
Rosemary
On 9/7/07 11:17 PM, "John Connolly" wrote:
> "Re: Raku kiln not reaching temperature Posted by: "Paul Vernier"
> pvernier@CISCO.COM Thu Sep 6, 2007 10:47 am (PST) Rosemary,
>
> In a prior post you referred to a low pressure regulator. If this is a
> traditional low pressure regulator that is found on appliances such as hot
> water heaters and barbecues you are getting about 1/2 psi. If this is the
> case. That's the problem. I have fired an Olympic kiln with the same
> questionable burners and have made it to cone 10 every time. I have also
> used the kiln for raku. After the initial load have fired to temp in 15
> minutes. All this using less than the 5 psi the Baso valve allows.
>
> Paul"
>
> I think "low-pressure regulator" in raku applications with propane is
> usually of the 15 inches of water variety. I have been driving myself to
> distraction trying to find such and animal in Mexico, but it seems no one uses
> them here. That means a hated trip to the border and beyond.
>
>
>
>
> John Connolly in Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
> Finder tool.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
William & Susan Schran User on sun 9 sep 07
On 9/8/07 6:55 PM, "Forrest" wrote:
> I've 'bout had it with mine! Seriously, I'm probably going to replace it
> with a high pressure regulator with a gauge, like I'm used to. If I do,
> want me to my old regulator to you?
Re-reading this thread you have written about this "low pressure regulator"
but I now think you are describing the Baso valve (device with button you
hold down until thermocouple is hot) that is original to the Olympic kiln.
The baso is more of a safety cutoff should the flame go out rather than a
regulator. This has a 1/2lb (is it 11 or 14 water column inches for natural
gas?) capacity limit for gas pressure. You will need to ADD a pressure
regulator in the line between the tank and the baso valve - I have mine set
to 11" water column - otherwise you may blow the diaphragm.
I still have the original baso valve on my kiln, but I updated to a heavier
thermocouple when I switched out the burners.
Here's a link to my web site with an image of the kiln:
On the outside of the shed (out of the image area) the gas line comes in to
the shed. Right as it comes in is a shut off valve and the pressure
regulator. The line comes to a "tee" for moisture collection, then to an
electronic solenoid (hooks to a kilnsitter), then to the baso valve. You can
see the venturi burners with their "wasp waist" shape. They functional very
well on 1/2lb pressure. In fact, I never turn the valve (blue color) between
the solenoid and baso more than half way.
Hope this helps, Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Forrest on sun 9 sep 07
I think we may be talking about apples and oranges, my fault, I am sure. I
don't have the updraft you show, but an actual raku kiln, a one piece
updraft. I believe the hose configuration I have is original and am sure it
does not have a button. I may be able to put up a picture of it in the next
few days. I'll see. I do appreciate all the advice and assistance offered!
Rosemary
On 9/9/07 10:38 AM, "William & Susan Schran User" wrote:
> On 9/8/07 6:55 PM, "Forrest" wrote:
>
>> I've 'bout had it with mine! Seriously, I'm probably going to replace it
>> with a high pressure regulator with a gauge, like I'm used to. If I do,
>> want me to my old regulator to you?
>
> Re-reading this thread you have written about this "low pressure regulator"
> but I now think you are describing the Baso valve (device with button you
> hold down until thermocouple is hot) that is original to the Olympic kiln.
> The baso is more of a safety cutoff should the flame go out rather than a
> regulator. This has a 1/2lb (is it 11 or 14 water column inches for natural
> gas?) capacity limit for gas pressure. You will need to ADD a pressure
> regulator in the line between the tank and the baso valve - I have mine set
> to 11" water column - otherwise you may blow the diaphragm.
>
> I still have the original baso valve on my kiln, but I updated to a heavier
> thermocouple when I switched out the burners.
>
> Here's a link to my web site with an image of the kiln:
>
>
> On the outside of the shed (out of the image area) the gas line comes in to
> the shed. Right as it comes in is a shut off valve and the pressure
> regulator. The line comes to a "tee" for moisture collection, then to an
> electronic solenoid (hooks to a kilnsitter), then to the baso valve. You can
> see the venturi burners with their "wasp waist" shape. They functional very
> well on 1/2lb pressure. In fact, I never turn the valve (blue color) between
> the solenoid and baso more than half way.
>
> Hope this helps, Bill
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Frank Colson on sun 9 sep 07
William/Susan- If your house was on fire and you had available two types
of water hoses; one,a garden hose with unlimited pressure, and one fire hose
with unlimited pressure?
Which ne do you suppose would be able to put the fire out expediently? The
answer is obvious!
High pressure regulator or not, the diameter of your gas lines going into
the kiln are too small. It is a simple matter of pressure vs volumne. I
know that you didn't make the decision as to the size of the gas lines going
to your burners. Therefore you can have all the pressure you can get (i.e.
11"wcp) and still be unable to reach any effective temperature.
Stop focusing on pressure gages, regulators, etc. and focus on getting
volume of fuel into the kiln with a sustainable pressure. If you are gutsy
enough, just take the regulator off!
Control the input directly from the on/off valve! And, lastly, but
important, you must not have small orifices on your burners, otherwise, you
will still be jamming or backlogging
any abilityfor fuel expansion inside the kiln chamber.
Keep in mind that kiln manufacturer's really don't expect to have the kiln
burner system modified. In fact, if you modify what is standard equipment,
burners, regulator, etc. it usually nulifies the warrenty on the kiln.
So, remember, you'll never put that house fire out with a garden hose, even
if you have enough pressure to launch a space ship, You MUST have plenty of
volume as well.
My portable raku kiln (ROCKY RAKU) reaches 1800+ degrees in less than one
minute! How? High pressure and high volume, no matter what kind of gas I
use!
Frank Colson
www.R2D2u.ccom
----- Original Message ----
From: "William & Susan Schran User"
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: Raku kiln not reaching temperature
> On 9/8/07 6:55 PM, "Forrest" wrote:
>
>> I've 'bout had it with mine! Seriously, I'm probably going to replace it
>> with a high pressure regulator with a gauge, like I'm used to. If I do,
>> want me to my old regulator to you?
>
> Re-reading this thread you have written about this "low pressure
> regulator"
> but I now think you are describing the Baso valve (device with button you
> hold down until thermocouple is hot) that is original to the Olympic kiln.
> The baso is more of a safety cutoff should the flame go out rather than a
> regulator. This has a 1/2lb (is it 11 or 14 water column inches for
> natural
> gas?) capacity limit for gas pressure. You will need to ADD a pressure
> regulator in the line between the tank and the baso valve - I have mine
> set
> to 11" water column - otherwise you may blow the diaphragm.
>
> I still have the original baso valve on my kiln, but I updated to a
> heavier
> thermocouple when I switched out the burners.
>
> Here's a link to my web site with an image of the kiln:
>
>
> On the outside of the shed (out of the image area) the gas line comes in
> to
> the shed. Right as it comes in is a shut off valve and the pressure
> regulator. The line comes to a "tee" for moisture collection, then to an
> electronic solenoid (hooks to a kilnsitter), then to the baso valve. You
> can
> see the venturi burners with their "wasp waist" shape. They functional
> very
> well on 1/2lb pressure. In fact, I never turn the valve (blue color)
> between
> the solenoid and baso more than half way.
>
> Hope this helps, Bill
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Forrest on mon 10 sep 07
I guess all I have to say to that is Good Luck! I doubt I'd try hand
gestures in another country, though.
Rosemary
On 9/8/07 10:44 PM, "John Connolly" wrote:
>
> Thanks Rosemary, but I guese I was less than clear. It's the gauge that I
> lack and cannot find. What I need is a 0-15 inches of water. No way to
> replicate without the gauge. It is fun to try to describe a gauge to
> non-english speakers. I find that one palm becomes the indicator and the index
> finger of the other hand waves back and forth to indicate movement on it. I'm
> told the proper word is "regulador", but that never seems to work.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John Connolly in Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
> Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Bruce Girrell on mon 10 sep 07
John Connolly wrote
> It is fun to try to describe a gauge to non-english speakers. I find that
one palm becomes the indicator and the index finger of the other hand waves
back and forth to indicate movement on it. I'm told the proper word is
"regulador", but that never seems to work.
How about indicador de presión?
The regulador (de presión) would be the regulator, not the gauge.
Bruce "but don't trust _my_ Spanish" Girrell
Frank Colson on mon 10 sep 07
Well, at least get a high pressure regulator to start with!
Frank Colson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terrance Lazaroff"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: Raku kiln not reaching temperature
> If you are gutsy
>>enough, just take the regulator off!
>>Control the input directly from the on/off valve! And, lastly, but
>
>
>
> NO, No No.
> Gutsy or not. Never, never remove the regulator. You may not be the
> only
> one going out with a bang.
> Go with the bigger hose.
>
> Terrance
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Terrance Lazaroff on tue 11 sep 07
If you are gutsy
>enough, just take the regulator off!
>Control the input directly from the on/off valve! And, lastly, but
NO, No No.
Gutsy or not. Never, never remove the regulator. You may not be the only
one going out with a bang.
Go with the bigger hose.
Terrance
William & Susan Schran User on tue 11 sep 07
On 9/9/07 1:42 PM, "Frank Colson" wrote:
> High pressure regulator or not, the diameter of your gas lines going into
> the kiln are too small. It is a simple matter of pressure vs volumne. I
> know that you didn't make the decision as to the size of the gas lines going
> to your burners. Therefore you can have all the pressure you can get (i.e.
> 11"wcp) and still be unable to reach any effective temperature.
>
> Stop focusing on pressure gages, regulators, etc. and focus on getting
> volume of fuel into the kiln with a sustainable pressure. If you are gutsy
> enough, just take the regulator off!
> Control the input directly from the on/off valve! And, lastly, but
> important, you must not have small orifices on your burners, otherwise, you
> will still be jamming or backlogging
> any abilityfor fuel expansion inside the kiln chamber.
Frank,
I certainly agree with what you're writing about - the pipe/hose diameter
and the burner orifice are certainly very important factors in having a kiln
that will fire efficiently and reach desired temperatures.
Having all of the components in the gas line working correctly is necessary
for success.
My response was directed to the question in addition to trying to get more
information.
You suggest removing a component of the gas line which has yet to be
determined if it is a safety device. I think suggesting this is somewhat
irresponsible as it is obvious the person asking the question probably
doesn't understand the implications of such a practice.
In my situation, changing out the burners made a world of difference in a
kiln set up in accordance with all manufacturer's specifications.
I wish you continued success with your business venture.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
John Connolly on wed 12 sep 07
Thanks Bruce, I have not encountered that one, but will try it at the welding store tomorrow.
Posted by: "Bruce Girrell" bigirrell@MICROLINETC.COM Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:10 pm (PST) John Connolly wrote
> It is fun to try to describe a gauge to non-english speakers. I find that
one palm becomes the indicator and the index finger of the other hand waves
back and forth to indicate movement on it. I'm told the proper word is
"regulador", but that never seems to work.
How about indicador de presión?
The regulador (de presión) would be the regulator, not the gauge.
Bruce "but don't trust _my_ Spanish" Girrell
John Connolly in Ensenada, Baja California, Mexico
---------------------------------
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