Earl Brunner on fri 21 sep 07
Of all the "takes" I like this one the best, it makes the most sense to me.=
Some pats are just better thanothers. Bottom line, if it's worth more to=
me, that's what counts. In the past, I've sold a lot of pots that I wish =
I still had. I've even priced some high because I wasn't really ready to p=
art with them and someone came along and plopped down the money anyway. At=
least I felt a "little" more compensated for my lose.......=0A=0A=0A----- =
Original Message ----=0AFrom: Hank Murrow =0ATo: CLAYART@L=
SV.CERAMICS.ORG=0ASent: Friday, September 21, 2007 10:31:19 AM=0ASubject: R=
e: pricing the "racers"=0A=0A=0ADear Carole;=0A=0AMy benchmark for 'racer',=
whether blemished or not, is if I want to=0Akeep it. Some time ago, my car=
diologist friend Bill suggested I try a=0Amarketing notion he had. He said =
to price a handfull of my pots at=0Aten times the going rate for similar po=
ts. He further suggested that=0Athese pots be ones I would not mind having =
in my life collection.=0AThey would be presented in signed wooden Japanese =
boxes. His theory=0Awas that well-heeled folks might buy the boxed pots ima=
gining that I=0Ahad considered them 'best'. If not, the buyers would see th=
e $300=0Abowl and notice that the $40 bowl was just (or almost) as=0Apretty=
............ and buy the $50 one. If the expensive pots=0Asold.........fine=
! If not, they would 'sell' the regular-priced=0Abowls. Well, it worked a c=
harm the last time I tried it, with sales=0Adoubling from the last event in=
that venue........despite a flagging=0Amarket during this so-called credit=
crunch.=0A=0AIt is a fun exercise to pick those 'racers', and to present t=
hem in=0Afull dress to do their job. Yes, the expensive boxed ones came bac=
k=0Aafter they did their job at the show............ and I do get to=0Aenjo=
y them until someone decides they 'just have to have them'.=0A=0ACheers! Ha=
nk, remembering the fun in Tennessee
Carole Fox on fri 21 sep 07
Let's say you have two pots of about equal size and shape. One came out of
the firing looking ok. The other is so pretty you could cry. Can you charge
more for the , as Tony says," racer"? What if you have two identical
pieces, but one is dipped in one glaze and the other has three glazes or a
quick brushed decoration added? Same price? (More work!)
And, let's say you make a lot of different size vases, at what point do you
charge more for a bigger piece? (Every two inches or so?)
Or you have a piece that is gorgeous...but, wait...there is a small area
where the glaze crawled or an area where you can see a drip or other small
blemish that doesn't affect the integrity of the piece, or you had to grind
a small glaze drip and now it is barely noticeable.....full price?
Thank you all!
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
silverfoxpottery@comcast.net
Lee Love on fri 21 sep 07
On 9/21/07, Carole Fox wrote:
> Let's say you have two pots of about equal size and shape. One came out of
> the firing looking ok. The other is so pretty you could cry. Can you charge
> more for the , as Tony says," racer"?
Charge for the fate of the kiln? ;^)
Save the racers for the shows, which you can charge more for.
--
Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
"Making pots should not be a struggle.
It should be like walking down a hill
in a gentle breeze." --Shoji Hamada
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"For a democracy of excellence, the goal is not to reduce things to a
common denominator but to raise things to a shared worth."
--Paolo Soleri
Bruce Girrell on fri 21 sep 07
I know others have different views on this - a pot is a pot - but we price
based on how we value the pot. In other words, how much would someone have
to pay me before I'm willing to let go of this pot. Right now, the large
horsehair one that I showed in the Clayart room in Louisville, I wouldn't
let go for under five figures and even then I'd have to think about it. Six
figures, maybe. But maybe not. Of course, I doubt that anyone would pay that
price, so that simply means that the pot isn't for sale.
Back when we were doing a lot of shows, I dropped the price of one of our
best pots because we weren't selling a whole bunch. It sold immediately, but
I have regretted it ever since. I know, I know, you shouldn't get attached
to your pots, but I do. I'm not a production potter. At best, I'm described
by that fingernails-on-the-chalkboard term "hobbyist". Sometimes our
attachment to a pot lessens and then it goes as a gift or it goes to the
gallery. Is the pot inherently worth any less? No. It's the same pot. What
we charge has to do with how we value it.
On the other end of the spectrum, we have found that what we might think is
an awful looking glaze or a nasty drip turns out to be something that is a
pot's best aspect according to someone else. So we have learned to price
these normally and let the market dictate the value. If they don't sell
after a while at the gallery we take them back. We give lots of these away.
If it's not selling and we don't have room to store it, it might as well get
a home somewhere.
FWIW,
Lynne and Bruce Girrell
John Rodgers on fri 21 sep 07
Carole,
One man's (woman's) trash is an other man's treasure. I quit trying to
second guess the public a long time ago. I put a price on something I've
made - that is the price. Drips, no drips, runs, no runs, cracks, chips,
whatever - someone will think it's wonderful and will buy it. It
happened just this past weekend at a really "hootie - tootie" art show.
I had some very much alike items on a table, one had a different color
than all the rest -BUT - the glaze had run on the feet and they stuck to
the kiln shelf a bit. When I moved it the feet broke a bit, so then the
piece was flawed. I ground the sharp edges smooth and took it to the
show with the rest of the stuff. Along came a lady who wanted that
piece. I pointed out the broken feet (the grinding didn't fix the
problem, they still looked like broken feet, but without sharp edges). I
didn't want her getting home and discovering she had damaged goods. She
didn't care - she wanted "This one". Paid full price. She was happy, I
was happy, and I didn't have to lug the thing around any more. Put the
price you want for the work on the piece, and put it out there. Like I
said, someone will think it's wonderful and will take it home.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Carole Fox wrote:
> Let's say you have two pots of about equal size and shape. One came
> out of
> the firing looking ok. The other is so pretty you could cry. Can you
> charge
> more for the , as Tony says," racer"? What if you have two identical
> pieces, but one is dipped in one glaze and the other has three glazes
> or a
> quick brushed decoration added? Same price? (More work!)
>
> And, let's say you make a lot of different size vases, at what point
> do you
> charge more for a bigger piece? (Every two inches or so?)
>
> Or you have a piece that is gorgeous...but, wait...there is a small area
> where the glaze crawled or an area where you can see a drip or other
> small
> blemish that doesn't affect the integrity of the piece, or you had to
> grind
> a small glaze drip and now it is barely noticeable.....full price?
>
> Thank you all!
>
> Carole Fox
> Silver Fox Pottery
> Elkton, MD
> silverfoxpottery@comcast.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
Hank Murrow on fri 21 sep 07
On Sep 21, 2007, at 6:06 AM, Carole Fox wrote:
> Let's say you have two pots of about equal size and shape. One came
> out of
> the firing looking ok. The other is so pretty you could cry. Can
> you charge
> more for the , as Tony says," racer"?
Dear Carole;
My benchmark for 'racer', whether blemished or not, is if I want to
keep it. Some time ago, my cardiologist friend Bill suggested I try a
marketing notion he had. He said to price a handfull of my pots at
ten times the going rate for similar pots. He further suggested that
these pots be ones I would not mind having in my life collection.
They would be presented in signed wooden Japanese boxes. His theory
was that well-heeled folks might buy the boxed pots imagining that I
had considered them 'best'. If not, the buyers would see the $300
bowl and notice that the $40 bowl was just (or almost) as
pretty............ and buy the $50 one. If the expensive pots
sold.........fine! If not, they would 'sell' the regular-priced
bowls. Well, it worked a charm the last time I tried it, with sales
doubling from the last event in that venue........despite a flagging
market during this so-called credit crunch.
It is a fun exercise to pick those 'racers', and to present them in
full dress to do their job. Yes, the expensive boxed ones came back
after they did their job at the show............ and I do get to
enjoy them until someone decides they 'just have to have them'.
Cheers! Hank, remembering the fun in Tennessee
www.murrow.biz/hank
Richard Aerni on fri 21 sep 07
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:06:56 -0400, Carole Fox wrote:
>Let's say you have two pots of about equal size and shape. One came out of
>the firing looking ok. The other is so pretty you could cry. Can you charge
>more for the , as Tony says," racer"?
Carole,
Sorry, but one simply isn't allowed to charge more for what Mick Casson
called a "racer". If you do, you'll be hearing from the dreaded Potter's
Council Aesthetic Police in no time flat. You don't want to mess with them!
What if you have two identical
>pieces, but one is dipped in one glaze and the other has three glazes or a
>quick brushed decoration added? Same price? (More work!)
Sorry, my sources say that the free market must be allowed to work here.
Just because it is more work doesn't mean that any customer will value it
more. That same point holds true with your above question as well. Just
because you think it is more beautiful doesn't mean your customers will.
Enough to make you cry, eh?
>
>And, let's say you make a lot of different size vases, at what point do you
>charge more for a bigger piece? (Every two inches or so?)
No, no, no! You just don't get it, do you? It's not size that matters,
it's weight. So don't worry about throwing thin, or raising high.
>
>Or you have a piece that is gorgeous...but, wait...there is a small area
>where the glaze crawled or an area where you can see a drip or other small
>blemish that doesn't affect the integrity of the piece, or you had to grind
>a small glaze drip and now it is barely noticeable.....full price?
Whew, a tough one, but, I think, you must be honest with yourself. You know
it is a flaw, even if no one else does, so to the hammer it must go! No
mincing about, no second thoughts.
I hope this has made things perfectly clear to you...
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY...is it April Fool's day today?
>
>Thank you all!
>
>Carole Fox
>Silver Fox Pottery
>Elkton, MD
>silverfoxpottery@comcast.net
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Chris Campbell on fri 21 sep 07
I used to hide away the "racers" at my
home show in case someone would want
to buy them.
I did not want to part with them.
Then, I decided to start putting them out for
sale and guess what ...
they were all still there at the end of the day.
Racers to me ... ick to others!
I think production potters fall in love with "racers"
because they are different and customers do
not know what to make of them ...
because they are different.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Lee Love on fri 21 sep 07
On 9/21/07, Chris Campbell wrote:
>
> I think production potters fall in love with "racers"
> because they are different and customers do
> not know what to make of them ...
> because they are different.
I really don't understand the concept of "racers." When you
woodfire, you have a greater chance of pots not coming out. So, in
a sense, any thing that is sucessful is a racer.
Sometimes, the pots give you more than you expect. But that is why
you don't demand complete control.
Jean is always bugging me to keep pots, but I end up selling
them all. Frequently, the ones I keep for myself end up being
presents to visitors, because I have sold everything else.
--
Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
"Making pots should not be a struggle.
It should be like walking down a hill
in a gentle breeze." --Shoji Hamada
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"For a democracy of excellence, the goal is not to reduce things to a
common denominator but to raise things to a shared worth."
--Paolo Soleri
Lois Ruben Aronow on fri 21 sep 07
Trash and treasure....
I find that, at a show, the pots I tend to sell first are the ones I
consider "flawed" - specifically where large patches of glaze have come off
(typical for my glaze). People seem to like them a lot. On the flip side,
I wouldn't send them to a gallery/order/online customer. When they are
ordering from a photo, I make sure everything is a close to perfect as I can
get it.
So my answer would be - price them the same.
As for height, both sizes are the same amount of work, but I think our
consumer culture has "trained" people to think in small, medium and large.
I price my work higher if the piece is significantly taller (say, 2 inches
or more). I have also had people offer to pay more if I can make them a
bigger one.
FWIW, I price my work out by item - one price for mugs, one for plates, etc.
Just makes it easier for me to keep track of.
As for a crawl or blemish, either smash it or save it for a seconds sale.
If you can see a problem, you shouldn't be selling it as a first.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Carole Fox
> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 9:07 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: pricing the "racers"
>
> Let's say you have two pots of about equal size and shape.
> One came out of the firing looking ok. The other is so pretty
> you could cry. Can you charge more for the , as Tony says,"
> racer"? What if you have two identical pieces, but one is
> dipped in one glaze and the other has three glazes or a quick
> brushed decoration added? Same price? (More work!)
>
> And, let's say you make a lot of different size vases, at
> what point do you charge more for a bigger piece? (Every two
> inches or so?)
>
> Or you have a piece that is gorgeous...but, wait...there is a
> small area where the glaze crawled or an area where you can
> see a drip or other small blemish that doesn't affect the
> integrity of the piece, or you had to grind a small glaze
> drip and now it is barely noticeable.....full price?
>
> Thank you all!
>
> Carole Fox
> Silver Fox Pottery
> Elkton, MD
> silverfoxpottery@comcast.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Nancy on sat 22 sep 07
Lee Love wrote:
One advantage in giving pots to someone who appreciates them, is that
you know where they are and can see them again if you need to.
Or.....
I go to my mom's, accidentally on purpose, break that ugly piece from 10
years ago and promise to replace it. The next time I am there, I take a
replacement :D
Nancy
Lynne and Bruce Girrell on sat 22 sep 07
Lee Love wrote:
> Jean is always bugging me to keep pots, but I end up selling
> them all. Frequently, the ones I keep for myself end up being
> presents to visitors, because I have sold everything else.
For years we sold everything. Then we realized that we had no history of our
progress. So now we save some, not only because we like them, but also to
provide some form of a record of our development.
Lynne and Bruce Girrell
Hank Murrow on sat 22 sep 07
On Sep 22, 2007, at 11:24 AM, Carole Fox wrote:
> Well, it was interesting hearing everyone's opinion on this. I
> asked because
> I am considering charging more for the racers (yes, I don't mind if
> they
> don't sell) because I feel like they are gifts from the kiln and
> they have a
> specialness about them that makes them worth more.
Dear Carole;
Another way to think about this is that the 'racers' are those you'd
most like to make again(even better), so keeping them around is in
accordance with the old French maxin, "jeter le coeur", or throw the
heart. the idea is that one throws their heart out in front and
marches towards it. If you hold on to the vision(and the pot that
most embodies it) you can march towards it.
Geez! It oughta be easier to say this.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Carole Fox on sat 22 sep 07
Well, it was interesting hearing everyone's opinion on this. I asked because
I am considering charging more for the racers (yes, I don't mind if they
don't sell) because I feel like they are gifts from the kiln and they have a
specialness about them that makes them worth more.
I have one bowl where the glaze on the rim flowed and made the center of the
bowl look like a delicate and ornate butterfly. I take it to shows because I
want people to see it but I priced it really high, because I love it so. I
once fired a piece that came out of the raku reduction with a perfect heart
on it. I kept that one.
I had a pot come out of a pit-fire with the image of a sitting cat on it
too!
Carole Fox
Silver Fox Pottery
Elkton, MD
silverfoxpottery@comcast.net
Carole Fox on sat 22 sep 07
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:06:56 -0400, Carole Fox
wrote:
>Let's say you have two pots of about equal size and shape. One came out of
>the firing looking ok. The other is so pretty you could cry. Can you
>charge more for the , as Tony says," racer"?
I charge the same price. People have vastly different ideas of what
is "pretty". I am frequently amazed at how quickly pots that I thought
were ugly because the glaze color didn't turn out "right" sell.
What if you have two identical
>pieces, but one is dipped in one glaze and the other has three glazes or a
>quick brushed decoration added? Same price?
I usually charge the same. Might be different if one was carved or had
elaborate decoration.
>And, let's say you make a lot of different size vases, at what point do
you
>charge more for a bigger piece?
It may sound strange, but a while back I decided to price functional
stoneware by how many pounds of clay went into the pot. I guess I ended
up doing this because I could get consistent pricing on different shapes
that took about the same amount of labor to produce.
>
>Or you have a piece that is gorgeous...but, wait...there is a small area
>where the glaze crawled or an area where you can see a drip...
I don't sell those. If I think they don't look bad, I may use them
myself. Otherwise, they get the hammer.
The other Carole Fox
in sunny Dayton, OH
Lee Love on sat 22 sep 07
On 9/22/07, Lynne and Bruce Girrell wrote:
> For years we sold everything. Then we realized that we had no history of our
> progress. So now we save some, not only because we like them, but also to
> provide some form of a record of our development.
One advantage in giving pots to someone who appreciates them, is that
you know where they are and can see them again if you need to.
--
Lee in Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
"Making pots should not be a struggle.
It should be like walking down a hill
in a gentle breeze." --Shoji Hamada
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"For a democracy of excellence, the goal is not to reduce things to a
common denominator but to raise things to a shared worth."
--Paolo Soleri
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