Leigh Whitaker on mon 1 oct 07
I'm thinking about trying to make my own underglazes or colored slips (not
sure what the difference is). I have been looking at the Mason Stains
available and I've searched the archives and found some underglaze recipes.
There are soooo many colors of Mason Stains available and I was wondering
about mixing them. I know that underglazes are supposed to be mixable like
paints are. I was wondering what are the fewest colors I could get and mix my
own colors. If I got a red, blue, yellow, white, and black, would I be able
to make pretty much any color I wanted? I know I have to be careful as to
which like a zinc glaze and which ones need calcium (?), etc... but assuming I
keep all that in mind can I just go with the primary colors, white and black?
Oh, and if anyone else does this, do you have any specific color suggestions
(i.e which red is the truest red, etc...)?
Thanks,
Leigh
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Snail Scott on tue 2 oct 07
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 22:09:43 EDT
From: Leigh Whitaker
>I'm thinking about trying to make my own underglazes or colored slips (not
sure what the difference is)...
I dislike the term 'underglaze'. The term has been made standard
by the commercial glaze companies for their engobe formulations.
I hate the usage because 'underglaze' is a description of the end
use, NOT a description of the material. Anything you put underneath
a glaze is an underglaze, in a sense, even if it's not an engobe and
has no resemblance to the stuff in the little commercial jars. And
if you use their 'underglaze' products but don't put a glaze over
the top, has it ceased to be an underglaze? Well, in my mind it
never was. Just because the jar label calls it that doesn't make it
so; how you USE it makes it so!
I love that stuff in the little jars that the commercial outfits
call 'underglaze', but if I don't put it under a glaze, I don't
call it that. An engobe can be used for many things; underglazing
is just one of them.
All commercial underglazes are in fact a type of engobe. So, what
you were really wondering (trust me, here) is the difference
between a SLIP and an ENGOBE.
First, as a nod to the linguistic purists (I'm fussy, but not a
purist): 'Slip' technically just means it's runny, and refers
only to the consistency of the substance, not it's formulation.
However, in conventional usage, most ceramists use 'slip' to refer
to a runny/squishy clay which is still mostly just clay, with or
without colorants.
'Engobe' refers to a slip with other significant components. A
common one is the addition of calcined clay, to reduce the dry
shrinkage and allow application to bisqueware. Another is the
addition of fluxes of various types, to cause a more fused result
after firing (though not enough to qualify it as a glaze). Other
materials can be incorporated into engobes for other specific
effects.
-Snail
Chris Campbell on tue 2 oct 07
Underglazes or slips?
If all you want is to paint on the surface of
your pots you are better off just using
underglazes. The Amaco ones turn out
almost the same as they look in the jar so
they would be the easiest way to go.
No slam to Duncan or others, but I have not
used them.
Make up some test tiles at your firing temp
and enjoy.
If you want texture and dimension as well
as color, then you need slips.
Mason has a terrific website with good
information on which colors can be used with
clay bodies and which are for glazes.
Do not use a glaze stain in a clay body since
makeup of the clay could change the end color.
Used properly, most colors turn out like the color
tile samples.
You need a blue, yellow and pink.
Mixing these produces green, orange and mauve.
Black is good for accent work.
I get white from my clay alone.
Your percentage of stain to clay depends on how
dark you want your color to be. I use up to 25%
stain to clay for some colors. You just have to
experiment until you get your shades.
I love Mazarene blue ... it is a wonderful dark
blue that fades to a denim blue as you lighten it.
It mixes well with other colors.
Yellow is mostly down to the shade you like.
I have tried many of them and they are all good.
Pinks vary from warm to cool and again it depends
on which colors you like.
E-mail me for Cerdic Red. I mistakenly ordered it twice
and have a lot for sale!!
Take a peek at the section of my website
called 'In the Studio' for more information on
mixing, etc.
Good Luck
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
I would love to teach workshops on coloring clays and slips.
It is so much fun to learn and adds a whole new dimension
to your surface decorating options.
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
miriam shelomith on tue 2 oct 07
Have found the same dry result with most yellows. Addition of a bit
of flux to the yellow helps smooth the final result out.
miriam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcia Selsor"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: mason stains, underglazes and mixing colors
> Some pinks that I have used must have something in them that reacts
> with the glaze to make the surface of the glaze "dry...crusty"
>
> On Oct 2, 2007, at 1:58 PM, Leigh Whitaker wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 10/2/2007 2:19:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> selsor@IMT.NET writes:
>>
>> A simple way to accent texture with mason stains in an ungerglaze on
>> bisque is this recipe:
>> 1/3 Kaolin
>> 1/3 Frit 3110
>> 1/3 mason stain
>>
>> Some stains are stronger then others. Just experiment. You probably
>> could use less of one. Some pinks go dry.
>> So, start from there and see what happens.
>> Marcia Selsor
>> http://marciaselsor.com
>> Thanks Marcia. What does it mean to say "some pinks go dry"?
>>
>> Leigh
>>
>
> Marcia Selsor
> http://marciaselsor.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
Vince Pitelka on tue 2 oct 07
I agree with Snail about the term "underglaze," but by now it has pretty
much been accepted into the ceramic vocabulary. But as Snail points out,
underglazes are just engobes - slips formulated to be applied to bone-dry or
bisque-fired surfaces.
You can make your own underglazes using the popular Mason underglaze
formula. Mason Color Works has been giving out this formula for fifty
years, and it works very well. We use it frequently at the Appalachian
Center for Craft. You can find the formula at my website at
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/syllabi-handouts/handouts/mason%20base.htm
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Leigh Whitaker on tue 2 oct 07
In a message dated 10/2/2007 12:31:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
chris@CCPOTTERY.COM writes:
Underglazes or slips?
If all you want is to paint on the surface of
your pots you are better off just using
underglazes. The Amaco ones turn out
almost the same as they look in the jar so
they would be the easiest way to go.
No slam to Duncan or others, but I have not
used them.
I'd like to try both (texture and flat decoration). I'm using Amaco
underglazes right now. I like them a lot. I've got some speedball underglazes too.
The colors are very intense, but the product I got is very lumpy. It takes
a lot of mixing and mashing to get them smooth. The Amaco underglazes are
very smooth out of the jar.
Make up some test tiles at your firing temp
and enjoy.
If you want texture and dimension as well
as color, then you need slips.
Mason has a terrific website with good
information on which colors can be used with
clay bodies and which are for glazes.
Do not use a glaze stain in a clay body since
makeup of the clay could change the end color.
Used properly, most colors turn out like the color
tile samples.
Yes, Mason's web site is great. So much information. It's overwhelming!
You need a blue, yellow and pink.
Mixing these produces green, orange and mauve.
Black is good for accent work.
I get white from my clay alone.
Okay thanks!
Your percentage of stain to clay depends on how
dark you want your color to be. I use up to 25%
stain to clay for some colors. You just have to
experiment until you get your shades.
I like the little color disks and mixing guide you show on your website.
That is great!
I love Mazarene blue ... it is a wonderful dark
blue that fades to a denim blue as you lighten it.
It mixes well with other colors.
Yellow is mostly down to the shade you like.
I have tried many of them and they are all good.
Pinks vary from warm to cool and again it depends
on which colors you like.
E-mail me for Cerdic Red. I mistakenly ordered it twice
and have a lot for sale!!
I don't see Cerdic Red on their page. Is it discontinued?
Take a peek at the section of my website
called 'In the Studio' for more information on
mixing, etc.
Fantastic. I've looked at some of your work before. It is amazing! I've
done some cane making with the polymer clay stuff, just playing around. I
can't imagine how messy and difficult it is with clay! It must take an
incredible amount of time to make your pieces!
Good Luck
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
I would love to teach workshops on coloring clays and slips.
It is so much fun to learn and adds a whole new dimension
to your surface decorating options.
You should! Thanks for all the information.
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : _www.wholesalecrafts.com_ (http://www.wholesalecrafts.com)
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Marcia Selsor on tue 2 oct 07
A simple way to accent texture with mason stains in an ungerglaze on
bisque is this recipe:
1/3 Kaolin
1/3 Frit 3110
1/3 mason stain
Some stains are stronger then others. Just experiment. You probably
could use less of one. Some pinks go dry.
So, start from there and see what happens.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Leigh Whitaker on tue 2 oct 07
In a message dated 10/2/2007 2:19:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
selsor@IMT.NET writes:
A simple way to accent texture with mason stains in an ungerglaze on
bisque is this recipe:
1/3 Kaolin
1/3 Frit 3110
1/3 mason stain
Some stains are stronger then others. Just experiment. You probably
could use less of one. Some pinks go dry.
So, start from there and see what happens.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Thanks Marcia. What does it mean to say "some pinks go dry"?
Leigh
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Leigh Whitaker on tue 2 oct 07
In a message dated 10/2/2007 2:19:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
selsor@IMT.NET writes:
A simple way to accent texture with mason stains in an ungerglaze on
bisque is this recipe:
1/3 Kaolin
1/3 Frit 3110
1/3 mason stain
Some stains are stronger then others. Just experiment. You probably
could use less of one. Some pinks go dry.
So, start from there and see what happens.
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Oh, and another question... In an under glaze like this, would you need to
add something for white?
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
Marcia Selsor on tue 2 oct 07
Some pinks that I have used must have something in them that reacts
with the glaze to make the surface of the glaze "dry...crusty"
On Oct 2, 2007, at 1:58 PM, Leigh Whitaker wrote:
> In a message dated 10/2/2007 2:19:44 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> selsor@IMT.NET writes:
>
> A simple way to accent texture with mason stains in an ungerglaze on
> bisque is this recipe:
> 1/3 Kaolin
> 1/3 Frit 3110
> 1/3 mason stain
>
> Some stains are stronger then others. Just experiment. You probably
> could use less of one. Some pinks go dry.
> So, start from there and see what happens.
> Marcia Selsor
> http://marciaselsor.com
> Thanks Marcia. What does it mean to say "some pinks go dry"?
>
> Leigh
>
Marcia Selsor
http://marciaselsor.com
Mayssan Shora Farra on tue 2 oct 07
On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 12:47:55 EDT, Leigh Whitaker
wrote:
Mason has a terrific website with good
>information on which colors can be used with
>clay bodies and which are for glazes.
>You need a blue, yellow and pink.
>Mixing these produces green, orange and mauve.
>Black is good for accent work.
>I get white from my clay alone.
>I love Mazarene blue ... it is a wonderful dark
>blue that fades to a denim blue as you lighten it.
>It mixes well with other colors.
>Yellow is mostly down to the shade you like.
>I have tried many of them and they are all good.
Hello Leigh;
Just some additions to a very inclusive:) post from Chris and yes her work
is wonderful.
*My favorite yellow is Buttercup for soft and Inclusion yellow for
intense .
>Pinks vary from warm to cool and again it depends
>on which colors you like.
*Mason has very good inclusion red called coral red( not the normal coral
they have which is really pink at ^6,you can tell by the difference in
price:)
* Also Lobster is a very fine red, a touch orangish but beautiful.
* Orange: (inclusion) Tangerine for intense and saturn for soft.
I found purple is best mixed and some green but just like water colors I
like the ease of some nice colors without me mixing.
I also like Claret for outlining softer than black yet strong enough to
outline also Deep Sea grean is a good outlining green.
I use the same recipe for under a clear glaze or over a white glaze.
I wish you luck and fun in this journey into colors.
Mayssan In wild wonderful West Virginia especially at this time of
changing leaves and crisp weather.
http://www.clayvillepottery.com
Ivor and Olive Lewis on wed 3 oct 07
Dear Leigh Whitaker,
Making your own stains from raw materials is a hard chore.
All stains have got temperature limitations. Though most would be stable =
fired to cone 04 and stand up pretty well to cone 6, beyond cone 10 they =
can change their character. You need to study the makers data sheets.=20
The graphic artist's rules for colour mixing do not hold true with =
ceramic stains.=20
I started of with a collection of samples. Got the whole range of Blythe =
colours n 20 gram packets, three boxes full for about $25 when I started =
using them.
Have fun with your testing=20
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
Vince Pitelka on thu 4 oct 07
David Beumee wrote:
> Thanks very much for this recipe, but how do the wet underglaze liquid
> ingredients relate to the weight of the dry base materials?
David -
Being the clay/glaze whiz that you are, now you have me worried. I thought
I explained clearly in that recipe that it is all in parts - everything, dry
and liquid. So it might be teaspoons, tablespoons, cups, or dumptrucks
full. That's up to you. Apparently Mason has always given it out this way,
and it works well.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
David Beumee on thu 4 oct 07
Hi Vince,
Thanks very much for this recipe, but how do the wet underglaze liquid ingredients relate to the weight of the dry base materials?
David Beumee
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Vince Pitelka
>
> I agree with Snail about the term "underglaze," but by now it has pretty
> much been accepted into the ceramic vocabulary. But as Snail points out,
> underglazes are just engobes - slips formulated to be applied to bone-dry or
> bisque-fired surfaces.
>
> You can make your own underglazes using the popular Mason underglaze
> formula. Mason Color Works has been giving out this formula for fifty
> years, and it works very well. We use it frequently at the Appalachian
> Center for Craft. You can find the formula at my website at
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/syllabi-handouts/handouts/mason%20base.htm
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
> Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
> vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
> http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
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