Frank Gaydos on mon 22 oct 07
I had great success using copying machines toner, but, you got to get the
decal paper out before it gets near the heater. It's a great way to really
gum up an expensive machine.
Frank
> On Oct 22, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Meg Smeal wrote:
>
>
> If MICR toner has enough metal in it to be used with magnetic
> sensors, then it might work better than regular toner because regular
> toner won't be read by magnetic sensors (suggesting less metal).
>
> Odin
>
Meg Smeal on mon 22 oct 07
Laser toner decals -
Buy the decal paper at Beldecal.com - if you buy the kind where you don't
need an overcoat it saves alot of work and angst -
_http://www.beldecal.com/laser_paper.html_ (http://www.beldecal.com/laser_paper.html) - using any
laser printer (paper and printer need to specifically LASER and not inkjet)
there is generally enough iron in the ink to create your fired image -(have also
heard it's manganese - never bothered to find out which - suffice to say
that it just works)
Generally the rule is to do your laser decals at 2 or 3 cones cooler than
the glaze was fired - however I have found that sometimes the iron sinks and
bleeds out at higher temps - If you can hit it just as the glaze softens so
that the iron/manganese just sinks enough to be permanent, you retain a nice
crisp image which is great for photos especially - don't forget that it is
sepia toned - but that's what you get!
(http://www.beldecal.com/laser_paper.html)
In a message dated 10/22/2007 10:18:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG writes:
Meg, I think you did two things:
- first you put the iron on the surface so it could stay Fe2O3;
my work indicates that iron below the surface all turns to FeO
which usually becomes FeO.SiO2, a pale yellow;
- second, you kept the temperature low enough that FeO didn't
form even on the surface. (My work and that of Carol Marians
suggests that about 950C is best for this.)
See http://sankey.ws/glazeiron.html for details.
My question: where do you get the iron laser toner you mention?
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
om on mon 22 oct 07
On Oct 22, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Meg Smeal wrote:
> Laser toner decals .... using any
> laser printer (paper and printer need to specifically LASER and
> not inkjet)
> there is generally enough iron in the ink to create your fired
> image -(have also
> heard it's manganese - never bothered to find out which - suffice
> to say
> that it just works)
Very interesting. It might be a worthwhile experiment to see if MICR
toner works even better. MICR is the magnetic toner used when
printing checks on blank stock -- you need to use the magnetic toner
to create the funky looking machine readable characters that denote
the check number. MICR toner is probably about 80% more expensive
than regular toner if you buy carts, but much less than a new
cartridge if you buy a refill bottle and refill your cartridge yourself.
If MICR toner has enough metal in it to be used with magnetic
sensors, then it might work better than regular toner because regular
toner won't be read by magnetic sensors (suggesting less metal).
Odin
Gail Barnett on tue 23 oct 07
Thanks Fred!
It is my understanding that any still alive Apple printers are
perfect - unfortunately I had to give "last rites" for my ancient
Apple laserwriter two weeks ago. It was a sad day. I have been told
that the HP printers work with the decals - we'll see! I'll let you
know what happens. If all else fails - I will drag out the silk
screen paraphernalia and do it the hard way!
Thanks for your help.
Gail Barnett
On Oct 23, 2007, at 9:47 PM, Fredrick Paget wrote:
>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gail Barnett [mailto:gginkansas@earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:36 PM
>>> To: Lois Ruben Aronow
>>> Subject: Re: laser toner decals
>>>
>>> Ok - I must have missed something. I have an HP Laserjet printer.
>>> And I have purchased the Beldecals for the laser printer. I
>>> have been to two workshops and not one of them said anything
>>> about disconnecting the heater element on the printer. I was
>>> told it works fantastic. I sure don't want to ruin my new HP
>>> color printer! Who is correct or who can I contact?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Gail Barnett
>> > gginkansas@earthlink.net
>>>
>
>
> I think I am missing something here too.
>
> A color laser printer is different.
>
> The HP black and white laser printers have the magnetic roller in
> the cartridge that spreads the toner which contain iron oxide and
> makes those laser decals.
>
> Your color laser printer probably uses a brush to spread the toner
> that contains organic colors and the color will burn out in firing if
> you make decals with it. There are a couple of companies that make
> ceramic toners for color laser printers . They work in a limited
> range of printers and copiers and are very expensive. See
>
>
> As to the laser decal paper gumming up the works - They are making
> that paper for laser printers and I have never heard of it gumming
> up the works. Perhaps in a big copier machine like they have at
> Kinkos it might as Frank Gaydos mentions. Copiers are very
> complicated and after his warning I would be leary of them. Any way
> in my printer it has never been a problem in 9 years.
>
> I took some laser decal paper to Macworld Expo about 4 years ago to
> test as many printers as would let me run a piece thru and as I
> recall the Brother machine hickuped and the rep was pretty sore at me
> but he ran a few sheets of plain paper thru it and it was ok.
> However the images were not iron and burned out on test as did the
> Samsun . Xerox was ok.
>
> On my homepage I have a couple of pdf's you can download to see an
> explanation of how to make the laser toner images and an improved
> method for ink jet embossing that will use mason stain or china paint
> of any color not just plain old sepia!
> Have fun,
> Fred Paget
>
> --
> Twin Dragon Studio
> Mill Valley, CA, USA
> fredrick@well.com
>
> Charter Member Potters Council
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 23 oct 07
you can easily disconnect the wire that connects to the heating drum. ;-)
Also, start out with a cheapie or freebie from craigslist or something
before investing in a machine you may or may not use once you experiment
with this technique.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Frank Gaydos
> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:30 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: laser toner decals
>
> I had great success using copying machines toner, but, you
> got to get the decal paper out before it gets near the
> heater. It's a great way to really gum up an expensive machine.
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> > On Oct 22, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Meg Smeal wrote:
> >
> >
> > If MICR toner has enough metal in it to be used with
> magnetic sensors,
> > then it might work better than regular toner because regular toner
> > won't be read by magnetic sensors (suggesting less metal).
> >
> > Odin
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or
> change your subscription settings here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 23 oct 07
This suggestion was given to me from a tech nerd friend who works
specifically with printers in a corporate environment. It seems like a
simple enough solution, particularly if you are not using the printer for
anything other than printing decals or toner transfers.
Had you read my post, you would have seen that I mentioned to try it on a
used machine first.
The mantra of pottery: test, test, test.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gail Barnett [mailto:gginkansas@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:36 PM
> To: Lois Ruben Aronow
> Subject: Re: laser toner decals
>
> Ok - I must have missed something. I have an HP Laserjet printer.
> And I have purchased the Beldecals for the laser printer. I
> have been to two workshops and not one of them said anything
> about disconnecting the heater element on the printer. I was
> told it works fantastic. I sure don't want to ruin my new HP
> color printer! Who is correct or who can I contact?
>
> Thanks
>
> Gail Barnett
> gginkansas@earthlink.net
>
>
> On Oct 23, 2007, at 5:14 PM, Lois Ruben Aronow wrote:
>
> > you can easily disconnect the wire that connects to the
> heating drum.
> > ;-)
> >
> > Also, start out with a cheapie or freebie from craigslist
> or something
> > before investing in a machine you may or may not use once you
> > experiment with this technique.
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Frank
> >> Gaydos
> >> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 11:30 PM
> >> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> >> Subject: Re: laser toner decals
> >>
> >> I had great success using copying machines toner, but, you
> got to get
> >> the decal paper out before it gets near the heater. It's a
> great way
> >> to really gum up an expensive machine.
> >>
> >> Frank
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 10:14 AM, Meg Smeal wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If MICR toner has enough metal in it to be used with
> >> magnetic sensors,
> >>> then it might work better than regular toner because
> regular toner
> >>> won't be read by magnetic sensors (suggesting less metal).
> >>>
> >>> Odin
> >>>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> ________________
> >> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >>
> >> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages,
> or change
> >> your subscription settings here:
> >> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
> >>
> >> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> >> melpots2@visi.com
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > ________
> > Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> > your subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots2@visi.com
Fredrick Paget on tue 23 oct 07
> > -----Original Message-----
>> From: Gail Barnett [mailto:gginkansas@earthlink.net]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2007 7:36 PM
>> To: Lois Ruben Aronow
>> Subject: Re: laser toner decals
>>
>> Ok - I must have missed something. I have an HP Laserjet printer.
>> And I have purchased the Beldecals for the laser printer. I
>> have been to two workshops and not one of them said anything
>> about disconnecting the heater element on the printer. I was
>> told it works fantastic. I sure don't want to ruin my new HP
>> color printer! Who is correct or who can I contact?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gail Barnett
> > gginkansas@earthlink.net
>>
I think I am missing something here too.
A color laser printer is different.
The HP black and white laser printers have the magnetic roller in
the cartridge that spreads the toner which contain iron oxide and
makes those laser decals.
Your color laser printer probably uses a brush to spread the toner
that contains organic colors and the color will burn out in firing if
you make decals with it. There are a couple of companies that make
ceramic toners for color laser printers . They work in a limited
range of printers and copiers and are very expensive. See
As to the laser decal paper gumming up the works - They are making
that paper for laser printers and I have never heard of it gumming
up the works. Perhaps in a big copier machine like they have at
Kinkos it might as Frank Gaydos mentions. Copiers are very
complicated and after his warning I would be leary of them. Any way
in my printer it has never been a problem in 9 years.
I took some laser decal paper to Macworld Expo about 4 years ago to
test as many printers as would let me run a piece thru and as I
recall the Brother machine hickuped and the rep was pretty sore at me
but he ran a few sheets of plain paper thru it and it was ok.
However the images were not iron and burned out on test as did the
Samsun . Xerox was ok.
On my homepage I have a couple of pdf's you can download to see an
explanation of how to make the laser toner images and an improved
method for ink jet embossing that will use mason stain or china paint
of any color not just plain old sepia!
Have fun,
Fred Paget
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
fredrick@well.com
Charter Member Potters Council
Lois Ruben Aronow on wed 24 oct 07
I was referring to the standard black and white laser printer. they are
very inexpensive, even if bought new. If we're talking iron oxide, that
would be what you'd use. The black contains the iron oxide.
Is it possible to use a color laser printer? And would the color be as
lively as what you'd get from a standard silk screened decal?
> >>
> >> Ok - I must have missed something. I have an HP Laserjet printer.
> >> And I have purchased the Beldecals for the laser printer.
> I have
> >> been to two workshops and not one of them said anything about
> >> disconnecting the heater element on the printer. I was told it
> >> works fantastic. I sure don't want to ruin my new HP
> color printer!
> >> Who is correct or who can I contact?
> >>
>
>
>
> I think I am missing something here too.
>
> A color laser printer is different.
>
> The HP black and white laser printers have the magnetic
> roller in the cartridge that spreads the toner which contain
> iron oxide and makes those laser decals.
>
> Your color laser printer probably uses a brush to spread the
> toner that contains organic colors and the color will burn
> out in firing if you make decals with it. There are a couple
> of companies that make ceramic toners for color laser
> printers . They work in a limited range of printers and
> copiers and are very expensive. See
>
> As to the laser decal paper gumming up the works - They are
> making that paper for laser printers and I have never heard
> of it gumming up the works. Perhaps in a big copier machine
> like they have at Kinkos it might as Frank Gaydos mentions.
> Copiers are very complicated and after his warning I would be
> leary of them. Any way in my printer it has never been a
> problem in 9 years.
>
> I took some laser decal paper to Macworld Expo about 4 years
> ago to test as many printers as would let me run a piece thru
> and as I recall the Brother machine hickuped and the rep was
> pretty sore at me but he ran a few sheets of plain paper thru
> it and it was ok.
> However the images were not iron and burned out on test as
> did the Samsun . Xerox was ok.
>
> On my homepage I have a couple of pdf's you can download to
> see an explanation of how to make the laser toner images and
> an improved method for ink jet embossing that will use mason
> stain or china paint of any color not just plain old sepia!
> Have fun,
> Fred Paget
>
> --
> Twin Dragon Studio
> Mill Valley, CA, USA
> fredrick@well.com
>
> Charter Member Potters Council
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or
> change your subscription settings here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Fredrick Paget on wed 24 oct 07
>I was referring to the standard black and white laser printer. they are
>very inexpensive, even if bought new. If we're talking iron oxide, that
>would be what you'd use. The black contains the iron oxide.
>
>Is it possible to use a color laser printer? And would the color be as
>lively as what you'd get from a standard silk screened decal?
>
Be careful there. Many of the inexpensive black laser printers do
not use iron in the toner. Get a test before you buy. So far HP seems
safe.
A mid range color laser printer such as the Ricoh or Minolta can be
filled with color laser toner but the color gamut, as it is called,
is not as good as you can get with a big Canon copier.
The CLC 1100 series of Canon copiers can do stunning work. These are
big machines and can be purchased used for about $2700 for a fairly
good one on eBay but would require professional servicing by a Canon
tech, a lot of space and expensive replacement drums etc. Also a
copier is just that . It does not hook up directly to a computer. You
need another device called a ColorPass to go between the computer and
the copier and it costs as much as the copier. I decided to go with a
lesser machine - the RICOH Afficio. It does nice work but not flashy
color and it hooks up directly to the computer by ethernet.
I was at the Baltea DC factory inTorino in May and they have a
fantastic mural in the lobby, of the last supper rendered on tile by
Canon copier.They gave me three tiles from a Canoncopier and they
are very lively indeed.
Unfortunatly my camera was broken since I had dropped it on the last
day of Tony Clennell's workshop at La Meridiana and I did not get a
picture of the mural. Also use of a camera is not usually allowed in
a visit to a technical factory
Silk screen images of graphics can have as many colors as you want to
make screens for and the gamut can be very wide.Nine screens are not
unusual.
Photographic files are usually four color on decals and have lesser
gamut. In order to increase the gamut ink jet printers are using six
or more colors of ink but I never heard of a color laser printer
with more than four.
A good red is hard to get and usually needs an expensive low
temperature gold bearing pigment and lead flux. Baltea DC has a
better red that works in the Canon but not in the cheaper printers I
believe.
Fred Paget
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
fredrick@well.com
Charter Member Potters Council
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