William & Susan Schran User on sun 28 oct 07
On 10/28/07 5:43 PM, "Doreen P. Diamond" wrote:
> and I'll get my manual back and can finish studying and can get my first
> firing completed.
Why wait? Go online and read the instructions:
>Can I put my kiln shelves with the kiln wash in my first firing?
Yes, you can include the furniture.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
William & Susan Schran User on sun 28 oct 07
On 10/27/07 9:41 PM, "Doreen P. Diamond" wrote:
> I am still in the process of having my new L&L Kiln installed, which incl=
udes
> the kiln sitter.? I am totally new to firing a kiln.? I've read over the
> manual numerous times and even though they mention how to use cones, they
> don't state if they?are necessary with my type of kiln.? I went to a larg=
e
> local ceramic distributor that sells my kiln to purchase some cones-, (am=
ong
> some other supplies I needed),-?and was told that they were 'not necessar=
y'
> with the kiln I purchased.??Are cones necessary with the new kilns or not=
?
I assume your new L&L has a programmable controller and not a Kilnsitter.
As has been suggested by others, YES, YOU DO NEED TO USE CONES! Do not let
anyone convince you otherwise.
I have two L&L kilns in my studio, one is an older manually controlled kiln=
,
with a kiln sitter and pyrometer, that is now used primarily for bisque
firings. I use one set of cones in this kiln as I have figured out over a
long period of time how to fire it to achieve even temperature top to
bottom.
My 2nd L&L is a Easy Fire model that I use for firing crystalline glazes.
It's outfitted with a controller, APM elements and "S" type thermocouples,
and I use Advancer kiln shelves. I use cones in every firing in this kiln
also.
If your kiln is an Easy Fire model, you can fire with one of 4 preprogramme=
d
settings (2 bisque, 2 glaze). You select the speed of firing from the
choices and simply enter a cone number and press on. The only problem is
that you can't easily program (but it can be done) a slow cooling ramp. So =
I
recommend carefully reading the instruction manual and learning how to use
the Vary-Fire schedule. It seems daunting at first but it's really easy
after you learn it. All you'll be doing is telling the kiln how many times
you want to makes changes then how fast the speed of firing, to what
temperature and if you want to hold that temperature - that's all.
Now back to the cones - The kiln comes programmed with a thermocouple
temperature offset of 18=B0F to compensate for the ceramic sheath that covers
the thermocouple. In my kiln I programmed my first glaze firing to cone 6
with a few holds during the cooling cycle. I had several sets of cones in
the kiln to check evenness of heating. The kiln read 2250=B0F (2232=B0 + 18=B0
offset) when it reached top temp. and starting it's cooling ramps. I saw,
but let it go, that cone 7 had gone over, so the firing was a bit to hot.
I figured out with my "S" type thermocouples (you have "K" type) that I
needed to remove the thermocouple offset from the controller. After a coupl=
e
more test firings, my top temperature is now set at 2210=B0F with a 10 minute
hold. This has ^6 over to where I want it. Without cones I never would have
known this. So you'll need to do a few test firings to see how best to set
your kiln.
FYI - Follow the instructions carefully for the very first firing to set th=
e
elements in place and create a protective oxide layer on them.
--=20
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Dolita Dohrman on sun 28 oct 07
Listen to everything Bill says about the L & L Easy Fire. I use a =20
Vary Fire program to slow fire and slow cool. Easy to program a slow =20=
cool into it once you learn how to. Interestingly enough, when I =20
fire to ^6, I have my end temp set to 2155 with a 20 minute soak. =20
Sometimes, depending on the kiln load, I have to skip part of the =20
soak and go into the cooling cycle so I don't overfire. If I set it =20
to 2210 as Bill does, I would easily have a flat ^7! How do I know =20
this? Because I have cones in the kiln and begin watching them at =20
2130. However, I am thinking maybe you don't have an Easy Fire =20
since it has a kiln sitter. Maybe you can get it as an option but I =20
never considered it.
Dolita
On Oct 28, 2007, at 10:20 AM, William & Susan Schran User wrote:
> On 10/27/07 9:41 PM, "Doreen P. Diamond" wrote:
>
>> I am still in the process of having my new L&L Kiln installed, =20
>> which includes
>> the kiln sitter.? I am totally new to firing a kiln.? I've read =20
>> over the
>> manual numerous times and even though they mention how to use =20
>> cones, they
>> don't state if they?are necessary with my type of kiln.? I went to =20=
>> a large
>> local ceramic distributor that sells my kiln to purchase some =20
>> cones-, (among
>> some other supplies I needed),-?and was told that they were 'not =20
>> necessary'
>> with the kiln I purchased.??Are cones necessary with the new kilns =20=
>> or not?
>
> I assume your new L&L has a programmable controller and not a =20
> Kilnsitter.
> As has been suggested by others, YES, YOU DO NEED TO USE CONES! Do =20
> not let
> anyone convince you otherwise.
>
> I have two L&L kilns in my studio, one is an older manually =20
> controlled kiln,
> with a kiln sitter and pyrometer, that is now used primarily for =20
> bisque
> firings. I use one set of cones in this kiln as I have figured out =20
> over a
> long period of time how to fire it to achieve even temperature top to
> bottom.
>
> My 2nd L&L is a Easy Fire model that I use for firing crystalline =20
> glazes.
> It's outfitted with a controller, APM elements and "S" type =20
> thermocouples,
> and I use Advancer kiln shelves. I use cones in every firing in =20
> this kiln
> also.
>
> If your kiln is an Easy Fire model, you can fire with one of 4 =20
> preprogrammed
> settings (2 bisque, 2 glaze). You select the speed of firing from the
> choices and simply enter a cone number and press on. The only =20
> problem is
> that you can't easily program (but it can be done) a slow cooling =20
> ramp. So I
> recommend carefully reading the instruction manual and learning how =20=
> to use
> the Vary-Fire schedule. It seems daunting at first but it's really =20
> easy
> after you learn it. All you'll be doing is telling the kiln how =20
> many times
> you want to makes changes then how fast the speed of firing, to what
> temperature and if you want to hold that temperature - that's all.
>
> Now back to the cones - The kiln comes programmed with a thermocouple
> temperature offset of 18=B0F to compensate for the ceramic sheath =20
> that covers
> the thermocouple. In my kiln I programmed my first glaze firing to =20
> cone 6
> with a few holds during the cooling cycle. I had several sets of =20
> cones in
> the kiln to check evenness of heating. The kiln read 2250=B0F (2232=B0 =
=20
> + 18=B0
> offset) when it reached top temp. and starting it's cooling ramps. =20
> I saw,
> but let it go, that cone 7 had gone over, so the firing was a bit =20
> to hot.
> I figured out with my "S" type thermocouples (you have "K" type) =20
> that I
> needed to remove the thermocouple offset from the controller. After =20=
> a couple
> more test firings, my top temperature is now set at 2210=B0F with a =20=
> 10 minute
> hold. This has ^6 over to where I want it. Without cones I never =20
> would have
> known this. So you'll need to do a few test firings to see how best =20=
> to set
> your kiln.
>
> FYI - Follow the instructions carefully for the very first firing =20
> to set the
> elements in place and create a protective oxide layer on them.
>
>
> --=20
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________=20=
> ________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change =20=
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at =20
> melpots2@visi.com
KATHI LESUEUR on sun 28 oct 07
I'm not the first person to learn the hard way to never trust a
controller or kiln sitter. I learned by over-firing the bisque when a
relay stuck open in an overnight firing. The loss-twelve five piece
place settings of dinnerware that were so deformed they were
unsalvageable. I had a deadline of Passover for this order and worked
around the clock to replace, bisque and glaze it to meet that
deadline. Now, I use witness cones and NEVER have the kiln programmed
to shut off when I am not around. I have it start at around three
a.m. so that I know it will finish off when I can watch it.
Controllers are wonderful things but they can, and do, fail.
Kathi
Doreen P. Diamond on sun 28 oct 07
My L&L is an Easy Fire model.=C2=A0 I was devouring my manual with the antic=
ipation to get going my first firing, but unfortunately, my electrician took=
the manual to make sure he had all the instructions to properly install the=
kiln.=C2=A0 In the process of installing the kiln we found a small sinkhole=
full of water in the corner of our house where we were installing the elect=
rical wire, (my husband loved that news!), and needed to be sure we didn't h=
ave a foundation problem.=C2=A0 Right now we're having the water tested that=
we found in the hole to determine where the water is coming from.=C2=A0 Onc=
e we can figure that out and solve that issue, the electrician can finish up=
with the install, (needless to say he doesn't want to install wires in wate=
r), and I'll get my manual back and can finish studying and can get my first=
firing completed.=C2=A0 From what I've gathered from those who KNOW.... con=
es are ABSOLUTELY necessary at all times!=C2=A0 I will immediately order som=
e cones on-line so I have them for my first firing.=C2=A0 I am pretty upset=20=
with the salesperson at the distributor because I drove over an hour just to=
get there!=C2=A0 I do have another question...=C2=A0 Can I put my kiln shel=
ves with the kiln wash in my first firing?
-----Original Message-----
From: William & Susan Schran User
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:20 am
Subject: Re: cones, now a warning and resources, now long
On 10/27/07 9:41 PM, "Doreen P. Diamond" wrote:
> I am still in the process of having my new L&L Kiln installed, which inclu=
des
the kiln sitter.? I am totally new to firing a kiln.? I've read over the
manual numerous times and even though they mention how to use cones, they
don't state if they?are necessary with my type of kiln.? I went to a large
local ceramic distributor that sells my kiln to purchase some cones-, (amon=
g
some other supplies I needed),-?and was told that they were 'not necessary'
with the kiln I purchased.??Are cones necessary with the new kilns or not?
I assume your new L&L has a programmable controller and not a Kilnsitter.
s has been suggested by others, YES, YOU DO NEED TO USE CONES! Do not let
nyone convince you otherwise.
I have two L&L kilns in my studio, one is an older manually controlled kiln,
ith a kiln sitter and pyrometer, that is now used primarily for bisque
irings. I use one set of cones in this kiln as I have figured out over a
ong period of time how to fire it to achieve even temperature top to
ottom.
My 2nd L&L is a Easy Fire model that I use for firing crystalline glazes.
t's outfitted with a controller, APM elements and "S" type thermocouples,
nd I use Advancer kiln shelves. I use cones in every firing in this kiln
lso.
If your kiln is an Easy Fire model, you can fire with one of 4 preprogrammed
ettings (2 bisque, 2 glaze). You select the speed of firing from the
hoices and simply enter a cone number and press on. The only problem is
hat you can't easily program (but it can be done) a slow cooling ramp. So I
ecommend carefully reading the instruction manual and learning how to use
he Vary-Fire schedule. It seems daunting at first but it's really easy
fter you learn it. All you'll be doing is telling the kiln how many times
ou want to makes changes then how fast the speed of firing, to what
emperature and if you want to hold that temperature - that's all.
Now back to the cones - The kiln comes programmed with a thermocouple
emperature offset of 18=C2=B0F to compensate for the ceramic sheath that cov=
ers
he thermocouple. In my kiln I programmed my first glaze firing to cone 6
ith a few holds during the cooling cycle. I had several sets of cones in
he kiln to check evenness of heating. The kiln read 2250=C2=B0F (2232=C2=B0=20=
+ 18=C2=B0
ffset) when it reached top temp. and starting it's cooling ramps. I saw,
ut let it go, that cone 7 had gone over, so the firing was a bit to hot.
figured out with my "S" type thermocouples (you have "K" type) that I
eeded to remove the thermocouple offset from the controller. After a couple
ore test firings, my top temperature is now set at 2210=C2=B0F with a 10 min=
ute
old. This has ^6 over to where I want it. Without cones I never would have
nown this. So you'll need to do a few test firings to see how best to set
our kiln.
FYI - Follow the instructions carefully for the very first firing to set the
lements in place and create a protective oxide layer on them.
-=20
illiam "Bill" Schran
schran@cox.net
schran@nvcc.edu
ttp://www.creativecreekartisans.com
____________________________________________________________________________=
__
layart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
ubscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.co=
m
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http=
://mail.aol.com
William & Susan Schran User on sun 28 oct 07
> I am still in the process of having my new L&L Kiln installed, which includes
> the kiln sitter.?
In response:
On 10/28/07 10:20 AM, "William & Susan Schran User" wrote:
> I assume your new L&L has a programmable controller and not a Kilnsitter.
Boy, don't I need to pay attention to what I read!!!??
Bad teacher, Bad teacher!!!
If you're firing to ^6, then you'll want to put a small ^7 or a ^7 bar made
just for the Kilnsitter.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Arnold Howard on mon 29 oct 07
From: "Doreen P. Diamond"
Can I put my kiln shelves with the kiln wash in my first
firing?
-------------
Yes, the shelves should be stacked in your kiln for the
first firing. Separate the shelves with posts throughout the
kiln as if they were loaded with ware. If you leave the
shelves stacked against each other in the bottom of the
kiln, they will probably crack.
I mention this because I know of a case where it happened.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
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