David Woof on fri 23 nov 07
I take this manganese toxicity seriously and with precautions, even tho I k=
eep saying that the really dangerous things of our time aren't in the studi=
o. I'm sure that I get many more times the manganese fumes driving conges=
ted "freeways" in Phoenix or LA because the lead in gasoline was replaced b=
y manganese, than I would ever in the course of studio work.=20
=20
Lead was put in gasoline as a high temp upper engine "lubricant" and I thin=
k it also had something to do with octane (correct me please if it seems im=
portant). Lead couldn't be just removed without another material replacing =
it and the public was not informed. =20
=20
Now health authorities are puzzled and concerned about the devastating rise=
in asthma and other respritory conditions in the population. Yet the manga=
nese warnings to welders and other industrial applications are by law publi=
shed and supplied with each product used.
=20
So, what? move to the back country? In rural Wisconsin we were concerned=
about the fallout blowing in from the nickle smelters in eastern Canada an=
d I'm sure they were getting something dumped on them from somewhere else a=
lso.
=20
#1 Let's make good pots, thank our experts for good research, get regular =
blood tests for toxic metals, educate ourselves about chelation therapies,=
(rapid advancements are occuring in this field) and relax with the best f=
ood one can find, the best wine one can afford and make love to someone spe=
cial often. David _______________________________________________________=
___________David Woof StudioClarkdale, ArizonaPh. 928-821-3747 ____________=
____________________________________________________peering over the edge, =
reverently taking an irreverent look at everything.
_________________________________________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i=92m Init=
iative now.
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=3DTAGLM=
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on sat 24 nov 07
Dear David,
I love your attitude and your insight. So much is withheld from the =
Public Domain. I'll steer clear of the good wine - being an alcoholic, =
dry for nearly 20 years - but will willingly subject myself to the =
love-making of Pauline and Pots.
happy pottingt Marek
=20
Hand made Architectural Ceramics from No9 Studio UK www.no9uk.com
Fully Residential Pottery Courses and more at Mole Cottage =
www.moleys.com
"Tips and Time Travel from a Vernacular Potter" reviews on =
www.keramix.com
an irreverent point of view after 35 years in the game Marek =
Drzazga-Donaldson =20
Assemble a dragon finial at www.dragonfinials.co.uk
Free Works and Mole Cottage DVD's and Video content on all the sites
Drzazga Video Promotions at www.drzazga.co.uk Submit address for D
Eva Gallagher on sun 25 nov 07
Hello David,
I had a discussion about the change in gas with a health physicist about 10
years ago and he mentioned that the lead was replaced by cadmium which he
felt was worse than lead - not sure if that was in addition to manganese.
There is no free lunch if we want to maintain our lifestyles.
Eva Gallagher
Deep River, Ontario
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Woof"
To:
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 1:20 PM
Subject: Manganese/unleaded gasoline
I take this manganese toxicity seriously and with precautions, even tho I
keep saying that the really dangerous things of our time aren't in the
studio. I'm sure that I get many more times the manganese fumes driving
congested "freeways" in Phoenix or LA because the lead in gasoline was
replaced by manganese, than I would ever in the course of studio work.
Lead was put in gasoline as a high temp upper engine "lubricant" and I think
it also had something to do with octane (correct me please if it seems
important). Lead couldn't be just removed without another material replacing
it and the public was not informed.
Now health authorities are puzzled and concerned about the devastating rise
in asthma and other respritory conditions in the population. Yet the
manganese warnings to welders and other industrial applications are by law
published and supplied with each product used.
So, what? move to the back country? In rural Wisconsin we were concerned
about the fallout blowing in from the nickle smelters in eastern Canada and
I'm sure they were getting something dumped on them from somewhere else
also.
#1 Let's make good pots, thank our experts for good research, get regular
blood tests for toxic metals, educate ourselves about chelation therapies,
(rapid advancements are occuring in this field) and relax with the best food
one can find, the best wine one can afford and make love to someone special
often. David
__________________________________________________________________David Woof
StudioClarkdale, ArizonaPh. 928-821-3747
________________________________________________________________peering over
the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look at everything.
_________________________________________________________________
You keep typing, we keep giving. Download Messenger and join the i’m
Initiative now.
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on sun 25 nov 07
Eva,
USES AND EMISSION SOURCES OF CVADMIUM :
This metal is used :
- in electroplating
- in solder for aluminium
- as a constituent of easily fusible alloys
- as a deoxidizer in nickel plating
- in process engraving
- in cadmium-nickel batteries
- in reactor control rods
Cadmium compounds are used as :
- in TV phosphors
- as pigments in glazes and enamels
- in dyeing and printing
- in semi-conductors and rectifiers
I do not see fuel here...
Gis la revido,
Edouard Bastarache
Spertesperantisto
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
http://www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.orange.fr/smart2000/livres.htm
http://www.pshcanada.com/Toxicology.htm
http://www.ceramique.com/librairie/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://myblogsmesblogs.blogspot.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eva Gallagher"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:01 PM
Subject: Re: Manganese/unleaded gasoline
> Hello David,
> I had a discussion about the change in gas with
> a health physicist about 10
> years ago and he mentioned that the lead was
> replaced by cadmium which he
> felt was worse than lead - not sure if that was
> in addition to manganese.
> There is no free lunch if we want to maintain
> our lifestyles.
> Eva Gallagher
> Deep River, Ontario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Woof"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 1:20 PM
> Subject: Manganese/unleaded gasoline
>
>
> I take this manganese toxicity seriously and
> with precautions, even tho I
> keep saying that the really dangerous things of
> our time aren't in the
> studio. I'm sure that I get many more times
> the manganese fumes driving
> congested "freeways" in Phoenix or LA because
> the lead in gasoline was
> replaced by manganese, than I would ever in the
> course of studio work.
>
> Lead was put in gasoline as a high temp upper
> engine "lubricant" and I think
> it also had something to do with octane (correct
> me please if it seems
> important). Lead couldn't be just removed
> without another material replacing
> it and the public was not informed.
>
> Now health authorities are puzzled and concerned
> about the devastating rise
> in asthma and other respritory conditions in the
> population. Yet the
> manganese warnings to welders and other
> industrial applications are by law
> published and supplied with each product used.
>
> So, what? move to the back country? In rural
> Wisconsin we were concerned
> about the fallout blowing in from the nickle
> smelters in eastern Canada and
> I'm sure they were getting something dumped on
> them from somewhere else
> also.
>
> #1 Let's make good pots, thank our experts for
> good research, get regular
> blood tests for toxic metals, educate ourselves
> about chelation therapies,
> (rapid advancements are occuring in this field)
> and relax with the best food
> one can find, the best wine one can afford and
> make love to someone special
> often. David
> __________________________________________________________________David
> Woof
> StudioClarkdale, ArizonaPh. 928-821-3747
> ________________________________________________________________peering
> over
> the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look
> at everything.
> _________________________________________________________________
> You keep typing, we keep giving. Download
> Messenger and join the i’m
> Initiative now.
> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to:
> clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post
> messages, or change your
> subscription settings here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to:
> clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post
> messages, or change your
> subscription settings here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 /
> Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date:
> 2007-11-24 17:58
>
>
Michael Wendt on mon 26 nov 07
Lead was added to gasoline to help
form a sealing layer on the valve
where it meets the seat.
When lead was removed, new cars
were engineered with special hardened
valves and valve seats to overcome this
problem.
Secondarily,
lead slowed the detonation rate in the fuel
allowing higher compression ratios which
gave cars more horsepower and better
fuel economy. Unleaded engines have
lower compression ratios and may still
ping under heavy loads.
I never heard that cadmium or manganese
were ever added to motor fuel, and this
is supported by the MSDS sheet:
Regards
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave.
Lewiston, Id 83501
U.S.A.
208-746-3724
wendtpot@lewiston.com
http://www.wendtpottery.com
http://UniquePorcelainDesigns.com
Eva Gallagher on tue 27 nov 07
Hello Edouard,
Yes, after I sent the message I googled and could find no mention of cadmium
as a purposeful additive, so I think I may have gotten it mixed up with
manganese - it's been a while. However I did see that they add cadmium to
tires - so some gets rubbed off as tires wear away and I think it occurs
naturally in gasoline as it states it is released from fossil fulel
burning - coal, oil and gas. Actually smoking cigarettes was one of the main
ways of picking up cadmium.
http://www.checnet.org/healtheHouse/chemicals/chemicals-detail.asp?Main_ID=369
Live and learn,
Eva
Deep River, Ontario
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edouard Bastarache Inc."
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: Manganese/unleaded gasoline
> Eva,
>
> USES AND EMISSION SOURCES OF CVADMIUM :
>
>
>
>
> This metal is used :
>
> - in electroplating
>
> - in solder for aluminium
>
> - as a constituent of easily fusible alloys
>
> - as a deoxidizer in nickel plating
>
> - in process engraving
>
> - in cadmium-nickel batteries
>
> - in reactor control rods
>
> Cadmium compounds are used as :
>
> - in TV phosphors
>
> - as pigments in glazes and enamels
>
> - in dyeing and printing
>
> - in semi-conductors and rectifiers
>
>
>
> I do not see fuel here...
>
>
>
>
>
> Gis la revido,
>
> Edouard Bastarache
> Spertesperantisto
>
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
> http://www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
> http://perso.orange.fr/smart2000/livres.htm
> http://www.pshcanada.com/Toxicology.htm
> http://www.ceramique.com/librairie/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
> http://myblogsmesblogs.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eva Gallagher"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 12:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Manganese/unleaded gasoline
>
>
>> Hello David,
>> I had a discussion about the change in gas with
>> a health physicist about 10
>> years ago and he mentioned that the lead was
>> replaced by cadmium which he
>> felt was worse than lead - not sure if that was
>> in addition to manganese.
>> There is no free lunch if we want to maintain
>> our lifestyles.
>> Eva Gallagher
>> Deep River, Ontario
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Woof"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 1:20 PM
>> Subject: Manganese/unleaded gasoline
>>
>>
>> I take this manganese toxicity seriously and
>> with precautions, even tho I
>> keep saying that the really dangerous things of
>> our time aren't in the
>> studio. I'm sure that I get many more times
>> the manganese fumes driving
>> congested "freeways" in Phoenix or LA because
>> the lead in gasoline was
>> replaced by manganese, than I would ever in the
>> course of studio work.
>>
>> Lead was put in gasoline as a high temp upper
>> engine "lubricant" and I think
>> it also had something to do with octane (correct
>> me please if it seems
>> important). Lead couldn't be just removed
>> without another material replacing
>> it and the public was not informed.
>>
>> Now health authorities are puzzled and concerned
>> about the devastating rise
>> in asthma and other respritory conditions in the
>> population. Yet the
>> manganese warnings to welders and other
>> industrial applications are by law
>> published and supplied with each product used.
>>
>> So, what? move to the back country? In rural
>> Wisconsin we were concerned
>> about the fallout blowing in from the nickle
>> smelters in eastern Canada and
>> I'm sure they were getting something dumped on
>> them from somewhere else
>> also.
>>
>> #1 Let's make good pots, thank our experts for
>> good research, get regular
>> blood tests for toxic metals, educate ourselves
>> about chelation therapies,
>> (rapid advancements are occuring in this field)
>> and relax with the best food
>> one can find, the best wine one can afford and
>> make love to someone special
>> often. David
>> __________________________________________________________________David
>> Woof
>> StudioClarkdale, ArizonaPh. 928-821-3747
>> ________________________________________________________________peering
>> over
>> the edge, reverently taking an irreverent look
>> at everything.
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> You keep typing, we keep giving. Download
>> Messenger and join the i'm
>> Initiative now.
>> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGLM
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>> Clayart members may send postings to:
>> clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list, post
>> messages, or change your
>> subscription settings here:
>> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
>> reached at
>> melpots2@visi.com
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>> Clayart members may send postings to:
>> clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list, post
>> messages, or change your
>> subscription settings here:
>> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
>> reached at melpots2@visi.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 /
>> Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date:
>> 2007-11-24 17:58
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on tue 27 nov 07
Hi Eva, all...
Too, if memory serve, the decision to remove the Lead from Gasolene was
'political', was emotional hysteria and pandering and sop...there was no
Science backing it, and, for that matter, Lead levels in people's systems
have risen steadily SINCE removing Lead from Gasolene, in excess from their
rise prior.
So yes, they made everything 'worse' by adding far worse and less popularly
recognised chemicals, and
neglecting to care or popularize or deal with the actual sources, causes and
necessary advisements for intelligent decisions to be made about Lead, and
in place of reason, pander to the hysteria the media has cultivated with the
approving nods of politicians and other human garbage.
This is what people vote for...this is what they get.
More american brains are rotting from the Lead and or Mercury in Office "Mr.
Coffee" coffee filters, vaccinations, Candle Wicks, Tuna, newspapers,
holiday fireplaces burning wrappings, and a long looooooooooooong lost of
other things, than ever were in any way bothered even the teeniest bit, by
Tetra Ethyl Lead in the Gasolene...or "Lead Paint" on 'Toys'.
More miscarriages, still births and messed up Nervious Systems of 'Babys'
have resulted from 'Latex Paint' being applied while the pregnant mom-to-be
felt 'safe' in the house, and the Mercury and other chemicals in it, than
ever occured with 'Lead Paints', or the old Oil Based Paints...even if we
were hounded to death about imbescile degenerate breeders in new york slums
having babys 'eat' peeling paint that was put on some rotting wall fifty
years prior by long since gone tennants.
What was the parents excuse? That they too ate peeling paint as a Baby and
THAT is 'why' Margaret Sanger is to be rebuked?
Oye...
But...Gasolene wise -
The meander of my thought led me to recall a fun scene from a by-now old
Movie - John Balushi, "1941" I think it was...lands a P-40 ( ? ) on some
rural highway, taxis up to a Gas Station, and says "Fill 'er
up!..."Ethyl!"...
...sigh...
Anyway...
Love,
Phil
l v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eva Gallagher"
> Hello David,
> I had a discussion about the change in gas with a health physicist about
> 10
> years ago and he mentioned that the lead was replaced by cadmium which he
> felt was worse than lead - not sure if that was in addition to manganese.
> There is no free lunch if we want to maintain our lifestyles.
> Eva Gallagher
> Deep River, Ontario
David Woof on tue 27 nov 07
For anyone concerned, type in manganese gasoline additive to search th=
e web. for a whole nights reading of well researched and sourced position p=
apers etc regarding manganese replacing lead as an octane booster and the h=
ealth concerns associated with the post burning atmospheric breakdown of MM=
T(methylcyclopentadienly manganese tricarbony) which breaks down and rides =
the air currents between tailpipe and our lungs as a very fine particle met=
alic manganese.
=20
I only cited this manganese/gasoline connection in a previous post as a pro=
test of the studio fear mongering which keeps raising it's ugly head all to=
often on this forum. To remind that we collectively have bigger and more s=
erious problems to recognize and embrace if we wish to live in fear. =20
=20
We have those who have chosen a study of studio and occupation safety as a =
career and I am grateful for their researched information.=20
=20
I am also grateful for all the level heads in this group who live with due =
caution but not in fear. Most of these will most likely live to slide in s=
ideways at 98 or 108 no doubt in a clowd of dust(lead, silica and uranium o=
xide) suprised that we've gotten old, and with a lifetime of beauty in hand=
.
=20
Newbies, educate yourselves with fact and join our dance. Fear is a biocid=
e, a crippler, and what we fear will be what most likely kills us. The rea=
lly dangerous things aren't in the studio.=20
=20
David __________________________________________________________________Dav=
id Woof StudioClarkdale, ArizonaPh. 928-821-3747 __________________________=
______________________________________peering over the edge, reverently tak=
ing an irreverent look at everything.
_________________________________________________________________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.Download today it's FREE=
!
http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_Wave2_sharelife_1120=
07=
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on wed 28 nov 07
" I found the article below and learned that they
do indeed add manganese to gasoline in Canada.
Michael Wendt"
And we have survived so far.
Gis la revido,
Edouard Bastarache
Spertesperantisto
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
http://www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.orange.fr/smart2000/livres.htm
http://www.pshcanada.com/Toxicology.htm
http://www.ceramique.com/librairie/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://myblogsmesblogs.blogspot.com/
Michael Wendt on wed 28 nov 07
David,
Thanks for the link.
I found the article below and learned that they
do indeed add manganese to gasoline in Canada.
tml>
Evidence mounts that it impairs the catalytic
converter function and make fuel mileage
worse in the bargain.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave.
Lewiston, Id 83501
U.S.A.
208-746-3724
wendtpot@lewiston.com
http://www.wendtpottery.com
http://UniquePorcelainDesigns.com
claystevslat on wed 28 nov 07
Phil -- It's hard to find the 30-year
wide-testing that'd really show all of
the influences of our societal efforts
to reduce lead exposure. The thing
I found quickly, on the CDC website --
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/surv/stats.htm
-- has lots of data, but some of the collection
methodology is clearly flawed. Look at that
link and check Hawaii -- in just a few years
we went from over 80% elevated blood lead
levels to practically nothing! Now check the
size of the sample -- clearly, the first year
was one where only children showing signs of
lead poisoning were tested. Wider (non-targeted)
testing will always show smaller incidence levels ....
But, if you check the states that have
consistent numbers of children tested, you'll
see a trend downward overall. So the effort
to reduce lead levels is presumably working.
I have a vague recollection of some data from
Chicago in the early '70s showing elevated blood
lead levels in children on the order of 50% in the
neighborhoods cut up by the expressways (I may
be mis-recollecting, though -- that was a long
time ago). I can't find a reference to that
anywhere, so I may be wrong.
Lead's dangers are well-established. The compound
once used in gasoline was responsible for an
outbreak of exposure-related insanity in Bayway
N.J. back in the '20s, when lead additives were
new. (Know how old cartoons and movies fequently
establish insanity by showing someone running
around with a butterfly net? One of the characteristic
expressions of lead-induced madness in the belief
that one is surrounded by winged insects. the
building where the TEL was produced in Bayway was
known as the 'butterfly house.')
Now I know that I poo-poo conspiracy theories as
much as the next guy, but consider this -- the
company that was created to provide the lead
additive was a joint production of GM, DuPont,
and Standard Oil. In no time, Standard Oil
had a huge hold on the market.
The argument they made for decades was inherently
circular -- 'we can't make a gasoline that'll
make existing cars run well without TEL' matching
up with 'we can't make cars that'll run without
lead given existing gasoline supplies.' Given
the arguments were being made by the US's #1
auto supplier and it's #1 gasoline supplier,
I'd tend to suspect some element of self interest.
In 1962, GM and Standard Oil sold their stake in
the company to a group of private investors, and
within a decade, GM was producing cars that ran fine
without lead. And Standard Oil/Exon was doing just
fine making unleaded gasoline.
When you go back and look at these things, you
see the same arguments being made 80+ years ago.
The science seems pretty clear, though, lead is
bad for living things, and not putting it into the
environment seems a reasonable thing to do.
Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, pdp1@... wrote:
>
> Hi Eva, all...
>
>
>
> Too, if memory serve, the decision to remove the Lead from Gasolene
was
> 'political', was emotional hysteria and pandering and sop...there
was no
> Science backing it, and, for that matter, Lead levels in people's
systems
> have risen steadily SINCE removing Lead from Gasolene, in excess
from their
> rise prior.
| |
|
