Lili Krakowski on sat 24 nov 07
Dear Hank and Vince:
This is a sort of "You say tomaaaaaaaaato,and I say tomayto" discussion,
which we do very often on ClayArt, and, as far as I am concerned, that is
swell.
As every old person on this list can tell you, "we" were exposed to endless
toxic materials
when we were kids. And this may or may not have contributed to the untimely
death of
some of our generation. Coper and Shaner may have
been killed by manganese, but then, they may have met their
neurological tragedies through totally unconnected ways. Diagnostic
techniques
still are not that good. In 25 years they may be. At that point, potters
will take new bearings. Till then---people should think and learn about
manganese before using it....
I assume I chewed happily on the bars of a
crib painted with lead paint. I know my brother and I played with the
mercury from
broken thermometers, and his lead soldiers, and ate off untested majolica
plates. Herring
was pickled in red folkware basins I now know were galena glazed....SO WHAT?
As a
pottery student I used all sorts of stuff I would not go near now! I also
smoked!
I got hepatitis from an injection needle at a time it was not yet know the
germ
did not die when the needles were boiled...So what?
I knew several printmakers and painters whose death was hastened if not
caused by handwiping plates with lead containing ink, or applying Chremnitz
white
with their thumbs! So what?
We learn as we go, and should teach what we have learned.
Now then. Some on this list write for the Illuminati--for those who went to
craft school,
who read the books, who read those sheets from the manufacturers who have
Monona Rossol's
book, who subscribe to ACTS and like that. They write for their peers.
Others, me among them, when we write on technical stuff, write for the least
knowledgeable.
I write for the schoolteachers, the Sunday School "activities" people, the
Recreational Directors at
nursing homes and shelters, the newbies, and
the like. They do not have the time to study up on everything. Or they are
too new
to clay to have had the time. We get a lot of zealous enthusiasts who have
fallen in
love with clay and want it all in no time.
I have dealt with electricians who thought throwing the breaker was for
sissies; plumbers who
splashed caustic stuff around without wearing goggles. I assume--do NOT
want to know--there
still are people who indulge in "risky behaviors"!
So what?
I really do not care what people do! Eat your main course with your salad
fork! See if I care!
Forget to turn the corner down on your calling card! See if I care!
But when it comes to safety in the arts, esp. pottery, I care a lot.
Hank speaks of having everything tested; Vince
speaks of using materials safely, carefully. Bravo, bravo, could not agree
more.
Vince writes:
"Neither [manganese nor barium] should
be used in a glaze to be used on food-contact surfaces if that glaze is matt
or imbalanced. This is simply a matter of education. Potters need to learn
how to formulate and test stable glazes, so that barium or manganese (or
chrome or copper) are locked in a stable glass on the surface of the pot."
Again, I agree. But just a few days ago we had a lament from someone about
"work-study"
students who come into the class/group studio and slosh the glazes around
recklessly. We get inquiries from people who clearly have not read the
books,
not even looked in the Archives.
So, dear Vince and Hank, tolerate, please tolerate my caveats--and you
provide the
sour cream!
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Vince Pitelka on sat 24 nov 07
Lili Krokowski wrote:
"So, dear Vince and Hank, tolerate, please tolerate my caveats--and you
> provide the sour cream!"
Ahhh, caveat with sour cream, my favorite. Oh wait, I guess that should be
"caviar."
Lili, your posts are always so incisive and intelligent and your writing is
consistently a pleasure to read. We should all be so lucky as to retain
your spirit and commitment as we age. I love a good curmudgeon, and you are
among the best I have encountered. I should clarify that from my point of
view, that is a major compliment.
But Lili, I hope that I am writing to everyone on this list. I would not
even be ON this list if my intention was to write only to my peers in
academia. We cannot do anything about people who are blatantly careless and
ignore our cautions, but no one is going to be poisoned by occasional
contact with a pot irresponsibly glazed with an unstable barium or manganese
glaze. It is the blatant and persistent careless or ignorant use of
potentially toxic glaze materials that can cause the problem for the artist
or the user, and as a professional educator I choose to proactively teach
people about the dangers and risks inherent in studio clay rather than to
sanitize the ceramics studio to the point where there are no dangers and
risks. To do the latter would of course completely destroy studio ceramics,
because there is some potential danger and risk in almost everything we do
and use in the clay studio.
You keep writing your caveats, and I will keep responding. In my responses,
I will always try my best to declare my own position while still showing my
respect for yours.
But you mentioned pickled herring, one of my favorite things in the world,
so now I have to go find a snack.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
Hank Murrow on sat 24 nov 07
On Nov 24, 2007, at 9:46 AM, Lili Krakowski wrote:
> So, dear Vince and Hank, tolerate, please tolerate my caveats--and you
> provide the
> sour cream!
Dear Lili;
OK. MY initials are actually R. B. Murrow(Hank is a funny but long
story), which my wife says," means Rich Butter Murrow", so sour cream
is definitely among my favorite materials(BTW, I make my own from
unpasteurized cream and a special starter), along with Barium and
even Uranium oxide. Anyway, I appreciate your uncompromising
education of those who take less care than Vince and I with their
materials, etc. Please continue to do so, and we'll occasionally
chime in with mild suggestions from our point of view.
Courageously yours, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
PS: Hi Vince......... glazing some plates today that may be yours.
Michael Wendt on sun 25 nov 07
Hey, I want some sour cream too!
:-)
To add another detail to Vince's
comments:
On the History Channel a few years
ago there was an article about the Jarvik
artificial heart. Barney Clark and others
suffered from Cardio Myopathy which
it turned out was caused by drinking
lots of beer which at that time contained
cobalt sulphate. Beer makers added it
to make the foam head last. No one knew
that it had this effect until enough people
had drunk enough beer for a long enough
time. Moderate drinkers appear to have
escaped without harm.
By realizing that many things we use can
pose a danger to health and teaching users
to treat them with caution, we can help
assure that more care is used.
A parallel in other walks of life does exist:
The two philosophies at polar ends of
personal freedom are:
1. We will remove all hazards from the world
we can so you don't unwittingly hurt yourself
2.
3.
...
10. It is up to you to learn about life and its
hazards and to exercise personal responsibility
for your actions.
I choose 10.
Got any Idaho Potatoes to go with the sour cream?
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave.
Lewiston, Id 83501
U.S.A.
208-746-3724
wendtpot@lewiston.com
http://www.wendtpottery.com
http://UniquePorcelainDesigns.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 25 nov 07
Michael Wendt wrote:
> 1. We will remove all hazards from the world
> that we can so you don't unwittingly hurt yourself
Michael -
I wish that the people trying to do such things were as altruistic as you
indicate, but of course it is all about liability. When access to
potentially dangerous places becomes restricted more and more, such as in
national parks or private a musement parks, it is not about protecting the
public. It is about protecting the owners or operators from liability.
We've discussed this before on Clayart, and someone mentioned a park in one
of the Scandinavian countries where there was one area that featured open
pits in which kids could hide from each other. The pits were the diameter
and half the height of a 55-gallon drum - just big enough for a kid to hide.
There were no warning signs - you wouldn't know there was an open pit in the
ground until you were right there on top of it. People were expected to
look where they were damn well going, and if someone blundered into one of
the holes and broke an arm or leg, it was their own damn fault.
I found the same thing again and again in Turkey. There were so many places
where people could injure themselves, but no one does, because they know it
is up to them to look out for themselves, and no one is looking for someone
to sue in order to make a buck.
Garrison Kiellor refers to this age in the US as "The Age of Litigation." I
hope all of you professional studio artists out there have good business
liability insurance. CERF is currently engaged in a major study and
education program to teach studio craft artists about business insurance.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft, Tennessee Technological University
Smithville TN 37166, 615/597-6801 x111
vpitelka@dtccom.net, wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/
James and Sherron Bowen on sun 25 nov 07
"It is up to you to learn about life and its
hazards and to exercise personal responsibility
for your actions."
Kinda tough on kids and those without access to learning. Sort of social
Darwinism run amok.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Wendt"
To:
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Sour cream with my caveat
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