Bonita Cohn on thu 29 nov 07
Hi - At Ruby's here in SF we have new advancer kiln
shelves.
I want to know if any of you who have these wonderful
shelves use kiln wash on them. One side? Two? (eek!)
The posts stick to the underside (no surprise really),
so we are dipping the posts in kiln wash.
And WHAT are you using these days for kiln wash?
The supplier had their own mix--would not say what is
in it.
We have been using alimina and kaolin 50-50 by volume
(scoops).
Thanks in advance for your replies!
And have a good weekend off, clayarters!
Bonita in San Francisco.
Bonita Cohn
415.673.0533
http://www.bonitacohn.com
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Victoria E. Hamilton on fri 30 nov 07
Bonita -
No kiln wash on the shelves on either side. We do use it on the posts,
though, and make sure they are thoroughly dry before you load the kiln.
Your alumina/kaolin mix is fine.
There are advancer kiln posts, but they're pricey compared to the regular
ones. We're saving up for them, one shelf's worth at a time.
Vicki Hamilton
Millennia Antica Pottery
Seattle, WA, but still a California girl!
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Bonita Cohn
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 4:35 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: [CLAYART] kiln wash on advancers
Hi - At Ruby's here in SF we have new advancer kiln shelves.
I want to know if any of you who have these wonderful shelves use kiln wash
on them. One side? Two? (eek!) The posts stick to the underside (no
surprise really), so we are dipping the posts in kiln wash.
And WHAT are you using these days for kiln wash?
The supplier had their own mix--would not say what is in it.
We have been using alimina and kaolin 50-50 by volume (scoops).
Thanks in advance for your replies!
And have a good weekend off, clayarters!
Bonita in San Francisco.
Bonita Cohn
415.673.0533
http://www.bonitacohn.com
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it
now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
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melpots2@visi.com
William & Susan Schran User on sat 1 dec 07
On 11/29/07 7:35 PM, "Bonita Cohn" wrote:
> I want to know if any of you who have these wonderful
> shelves use kiln wash on them. One side? Two? (eek!)
> The posts stick to the underside (no surprise really),
> so we are dipping the posts in kiln wash.
> And WHAT are you using these days for kiln wash?
> The supplier had their own mix--would not say what is
> in it.
We use Advancers in our gas kiln that is fired to ^10.
We don't use any kiln wash.
Many glaze drips and worse from student work.
Most glaze pops right off with putty knife and then a quick finish with an
angle grinder fitted with a masonry grinding wheel.
At home I use them in my electric kiln that I do crystalline firings.
I don't use any kiln wash.
I do sprinkle some alumina on the shelves when I'm re-using catch plates
made from a clay that has silica sand in it as the silica will stick to the
shelf a bit.
I would advise sprinkling alumina on the shelf for porcelain pots to prevent
plucking.
Alternatively you can add a bit of alumina to your wax to accomplish the
same thing.
Smith-Sharpe sells a wash made specifically for Advancer shelves if you
really feel you need it.
We've had some major glaze accidents and even had a low fire clay melt down
one time, but every time the stuff comes right off the shelves.
IMHO, don't waste your time with kiln wash on Advancers.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Rikki Gill on fri 7 dec 07
Hi,
I work in porcelain, and alumina in the wax for the foot of the piece works
well with advancers. I do have the occasional problem, but I don't use kiln
wash.
Best,
Rikki
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Girrell"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
>I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use kiln wash.
>
> When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
> shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said that in
> most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln wash is
> advisable.
>
> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or unwashed?
>
> Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
newt and amy on fri 7 dec 07
i have used a mix of 50 /50 epk and pryotrol, coating both sides, and i flip
the shelves every time. absolutely no flaking from this mix. i roll it
on
newt lale in downtown osage ar. . ----- Original Message -----
From: "Bonita Cohn"
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:35 PM
Subject: kiln wash on advancers
> Hi - At Ruby's here in SF we have new advancer kiln
> shelves.
> I want to know if any of you who have these wonderful
> shelves use kiln wash on them. One side? Two? (eek!)
> The posts stick to the underside (no surprise really),
> so we are dipping the posts in kiln wash.
> And WHAT are you using these days for kiln wash?
> The supplier had their own mix--would not say what is
> in it.
> We have been using alimina and kaolin 50-50 by volume
> (scoops).
> Thanks in advance for your replies!
> And have a good weekend off, clayarters!
> Bonita in San Francisco.
>
>
>
> Bonita Cohn
>
> 415.673.0533
>
> http://www.bonitacohn.com
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you
> with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Bruce Girrell on fri 7 dec 07
I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use kiln wash.
When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said that in
most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln wash is
advisable.
Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or unwashed?
Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
Jennifer Boyer on sat 8 dec 07
I have some Crystars that are very similar to Advancers and my clay
body is a white stoneware that is prone to plucking(bits of foot
stick to shelf and pull off pot), like porcelain. I definitely need
kiln wash on my Crystars to prevent the plucking, even though glaze
drips are easy to get off.
Just for the record, these shelves have stayed flat as a pancake
without any flipping!! Anyone using Advancers successfully without
flipping?
Jennifer
On Dec 7, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Bruce Girrell wrote:
> I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use
> kiln wash.
>
> When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
> shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said
> that in
> most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln
> wash is
> advisable.
>
> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or
> unwashed?
>
> Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
*****************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
*****************************
Francine Epstein on sat 8 dec 07
For porcelain pots I either brush wax mixed with alumina hydrate onto the
foot of the pot or I wax the foot and touch it to a flat plate sprinkled
generously with alumina hydrate. I hate messing with the stuff but it does
save a lot of pots from losing their feet. I find that the heavier the
pot and the narrower the foot the more likely for it to stick to the
advancer shelf. Light pots that are flat on the bottom don't stick. You
have to see what happens in your kiln.Francine
On 12/7/07, Bruce Girrell wrote:
>
> I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use kiln wash.
>
> When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
> shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said that in
> most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln wash is
> advisable.
>
> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or unwashed?
>
> Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
Paul Herman on sat 8 dec 07
Bruce,
I'm one of the kiln wash users, and fire some porcelain .
When I first got them, on some peoples recommendations I tried firing
bare, but the porcelain got severe plucking (chips breaking off the
foot).
The thing is, after a few firings the kiln wash starts to get sticky
and will make porcelain stick and cause plucking. If you keep adding
more layers, it gets lumpy and starts to cause warping. Some vitreous
white stoneware clays are liable to pluck and warp also. Gritty
stoneware clay I fire sitting on the kiln wash. Porcelain and
vitreous stoneware I fire on wads, like the common practice in wood
fired kilns. Wads are the best best for me, not only eliminating
plucking, but providing a stable base that discourages warping. Try
wads some time for an experiment.
Best wishes,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Dec 7, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Bruce Girrell wrote:
> I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use
> kiln wash.
>
> When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
> shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said
> that in
> most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln
> wash is
> advisable.
>
> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or
> unwashed?
>
> Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
>
Bryan Johnson on sat 8 dec 07
Bruce Girrell wrote:
> I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use kiln wash.
>
> When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
> shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said that in
> most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln wash is
> advisable.
>
> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or unwashed?
>
> Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
>
I am using them washed, and for porcelain.
Bryan Johnson
William & Susan Schran User on sat 8 dec 07
On 12/8/07 8:04 AM, "Jennifer Boyer" wrote:
> Just for the record, these shelves have stayed flat as a pancake
> without any flipping!! Anyone using Advancers successfully without
> flipping?
Been using 20 Advancers, no wash, for 2 years, ^10 reduction - flat as when
they came from the factory.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
William & Susan Schran User on sat 8 dec 07
On 12/7/07 4:24 PM, "Bruce Girrell" wrote:
> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or unwashed?
I think I mentioned in my post that we mix some alumina with cold wax for
porcelain feet. Keeps the "plucking" down and we still don't need to wash
the Advancers.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Bill Merrill on sat 8 dec 07
Jennifer,
An easy way to keep your porcelain from sticking to your shelves is to
sprinkle mullite on the shelves. Wipe the outer 1/2" around the
sshelves from any mullite from dropping on a lower shelf. I sometimes
hot wax the foot and then press the foot into a very thin layer of
mullite. Doing those steps you will not have any chips on the porcelain
foot. If you make large plates sometimes the inner foot ring bows down
as the lip comes up. If you use a pure rutile wash on a several inch
diameter underneath, the rutile is very refractory and if the center
comes down it will not stick to the shelf.
Victor Babu a great potter does that on all of his extremely large
porcelain platters. It is something that goes back to old Chinese pots.
I put a small inner foot on my platters that is raised slightly from the
underneath of the pot and if I'm glazing the bottom of the pot I wax
resist the raised are of the center, which keeps the underneath from
sticking and also keeps that area free of glaze. The mullite can be
brushed of the kiln shelf after firing and used again. I use a mullite
that comes in grog sizes 35, 48. Mullite came from the Isle of mull and
Kyanite is a US product that is interchangeable with Mullite. I get my
supply from Seattle Pottery Supply, 1-800-522-1975,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Jennifer
Boyer
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:04 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
I have some Crystars that are very similar to Advancers and my clay
body is a white stoneware that is prone to plucking(bits of foot
stick to shelf and pull off pot), like porcelain. I definitely need
kiln wash on my Crystars to prevent the plucking, even though glaze
drips are easy to get off.
Just for the record, these shelves have stayed flat as a pancake
without any flipping!! Anyone using Advancers successfully without
flipping?
Jennifer
On Dec 7, 2007, at 4:24 PM, Bruce Girrell wrote:
> I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use
> kiln wash.
>
> When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
> shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said
> that in
> most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln
> wash is
> advisable.
>
> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or
> unwashed?
>
> Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
*****************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
*****************************
________________________________________________________________________
______
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Hank Murrow on sat 8 dec 07
On Dec 8, 2007, at 2:29 AM, Francine Epstein wrote:
> For porcelain pots I either brush wax mixed with alumina hydrate
> onto the
> foot of the pot or I wax the foot and touch it to a flat plate
> sprinkled
> generously with alumina hydrate. I hate messing with the stuff but
> it does
> save a lot of pots from losing their feet. I find that the
> heavier the
> pot and the narrower the foot the more likely for it to stick to the
> advancer shelf. Light pots that are flat on the bottom don't
> stick. You
> have to see what happens in your kiln.Francine
I use alumina 80 mesh in the wax plus speading it on the shelf dry in
a very thin layer. I am going to try to find a coarser alumina to
spread, as I think it will work better for things like pedestal feet
that have a small surface to carry the weight.
Cheers, Hank
www.murrow.biz/hank
Hank Murrow on sat 8 dec 07
On Dec 8, 2007, at 5:04 AM, Jennifer Boyer wrote:
> I have some Crystars that are very similar to Advancers and my clay
> body is a white stoneware that is prone to plucking(bits of foot
> stick to shelf and pull off pot), like porcelain. I definitely need
> kiln wash on my Crystars to prevent the plucking, even though glaze
> drips are easy to get off.
>
I had a dozen Crystars when they first came out, but all have
cracked, some failing in the fire and dropping onto the ware below.
Since then, I have used Advancers(have twenty) to good advantage,
staying flat and not needing to flip at all. I fire to cone 11
reduction and cone 10 oxidation.
> Just for the record, these shelves have stayed flat as a pancake
> without any flipping!! Anyone using Advancers successfully without
> flipping?
As above.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
www.murrow.biz/hank
Tom at Hutchtel.net on sun 9 dec 07
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
> I had a dozen Crystars when they first came out, but all have
> cracked, some failing in the fire and dropping onto the ware below.
> Since then, I have used Advancers(have twenty) to good advantage,
> staying flat and not needing to flip at all. I fire to cone 11
> reduction and cone 10 oxidation.
>> Just for the record, these shelves have stayed flat as a pancake
>> without any flipping!! Anyone using Advancers successfully without
>> flipping?
We have used advancers for about 2 years now, never flipped them and we're
into about 150 firings on the so far. Only had one crack....when Betsy
dropped it (I dropped one on edge and got lucky) . For the most part we've
had no sticking of feet, using mostly stoneware, but some porcelain. Most
of the glaze boogers just get knocked off with an old chisel.
I just ordered a half dozen Chinese Silicon nitrite bonded and we'll stick
them into the mix to see if there is any difference. $45 each plus 10%
packing and about $125 shipping. They'll be a good deal only if they
perform as well as the Advancers.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
William & Susan Schran User on sun 9 dec 07
On 12/8/07 4:08 PM, "Bill Merrill" wrote:
> An easy way to keep your porcelain from sticking to your shelves is to
> sprinkle mullite on the shelves.
Here's the web site for the Kyanite Corp. here in Virginia:
http://kyanite.com/
Couple years ago I was running some experiments adding percentages of
mullite and kyanite to raku clay bodies to reduce the effects of thermal
shock - discovered 10 - 15% was adequate - and I called them asking if I
could get a sample of 200 and 325 mesh (they have 35, 48, 100, 200, 325
mesh). They sent me 25 pounds of each! Of course I told them I was a teacher
in Virginia, so I'm certain that helped.
I'm sure they'll sell in their 50lb bag size, unless you want to go big time
and get the 3500lb bag!!
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Ingeborg Foco on sun 9 dec 07
I am certain the silicon nitrite boned shelves will be no comparison to the
Advancer shelves. After all, you know the saying "you get what you pay
for" However, I have fired mine three times now with no kiln wash. I had
a lot of glaze runs. The pots do not stick to the shelves and the glaze
drips come off with a putty knife.
The glaze runs look just like lava rocks. How can I explain it.....the
glaze runs are full of holes and look like very porous rocks. They sort of
spread and run out from the pot. A quick scrape with a putty knife and it
comes off. There is a very thin residue left on the shelf but I have not
had a problem with that. Next time I fire, I will set a sacrificial pot
over one of those spots to see what happens.
I have, however, had problems with little silicon carbide bits and pieces
falling off onto a pot below and of course that pretty much ruins the pot.
I have scrubbed and scraped to try to avoid any loose pieces from falling
and if someone has a secret to prevent this from happening, I would love to
hear it. The bits falling off seem to come from the slits in the
shelves. I have thought of kiln washing those areas, but then you have to
contend with kiln wash flaking off.
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
www.thepottersworkshop.com
On Dec 9, 2007 5:22 PM, William & Susan Schran User wrote:
> On 12/9/07 10:58 AM, "Tom at Hutchtel.net " <
> twirt@HUTCHTEL.NET> wrote:
>
> > I just ordered a half dozen Chinese Silicon nitrite bonded and we'll
> stick
> > them into the mix to see if there is any difference. $45 each plus 10%
> > packing and about $125 shipping. They'll be a good deal only if they
> > perform as well as the Advancers.
>
> Hate to burst your bubble, but I seriously doubt they will perform as well
> as the Advancers. I think you'll find the need to apply kiln wash to them.
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
Bill Merrill on sun 9 dec 07
If anyone is going to purchase advancer shelves, thay is the right way
to go. I've been hearing that the Chinese import shelves don't last
much more than several firings. Fast cooling is a real way to break
those type of shelves. I guess the moral is buy American and slow down
your cooling. I have 30 of the Advancer shelves and none of them have
broken. Just be sure you kiln wash ( I use some mullite on the ends
also). I heard some kiln washes will just stick to pots as they melt
slightly. I use a very thin layer of mullite crystals that are a small
grog size to put porcelain pots on. I have never put a wash on any of
them and it was a good move to leave them alone. There is a kiln wash
that you can buy already on the Advancer shelf. I'm not sure of the
cost. The wash is probably some sort of zirconium silicate mix. The
factory sure won't tell what's in it though.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of June Perry
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 12:23 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
3 or my nitrate bonded shelves broke in half after one firing - all
broke in
the same place across the narrow part about one third of the way in on
the
length.
Nitrate bonded shelves can only go up to cone 11, for those of you who
fire
higher and may be considering these shelves.
I'll stick with the advancers.
Regards,
June
_http://www.shambhalapottery.com_ (http://www.shambhalapottery.com/)
_http://shambhalapottery.blogspot.com_
(http://shambhalapottery.blogspot.com/)
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodasaltfiring_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodasaltfiring)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's
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________________________________________________________________________
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Paul Herman on sun 9 dec 07
Hi Gail,
The wadding mix I use is:
1 kaolin,
1 Lincoln fireclay
1 grog or silica sand.
It works by either weight or volume measure. The volume version is
sandier and less plastic. I'm pretty sure it would work with just
kaolin and sand. For wood firing, we always add sawdust, but not
necessarily for gas.
On a wide foot, I would use lots of wads, maybe one every inch or
two. Just a few wads would cause warping if it was vitreous stoneware
or porcelain. On a flat bottomed shape, I put some wads in the middle
of the foot ring also, so it doesn't sag. On plates, I just make sure
the kiln wash is good, and use alumina wax on the foot, with no wads.
Best,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Dec 9, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Gayle Bair wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> I've been having similar plucking issues.
> I suspect my kiln wash .... probably not enough alumina.
> There was a thread recently with some good kiln wash recipes
> which I'll check out.
> I am interested in your wadding and have a couple questions for you.
> Do you have a favorite wadding recipe?
> Do you just use a few wads on the footring of a 12-14" bowl?
> How & how much?
> Thanks,
>
> Gayle Bair
> Bainbridge Island, WA
> Tucson, AZ
> www.claybair.com
>
William & Susan Schran User on sun 9 dec 07
On 12/9/07 10:58 AM, "Tom at Hutchtel.net" wrote:
> I just ordered a half dozen Chinese Silicon nitrite bonded and we'll stick
> them into the mix to see if there is any difference. $45 each plus 10%
> packing and about $125 shipping. They'll be a good deal only if they
> perform as well as the Advancers.
Hate to burst your bubble, but I seriously doubt they will perform as well
as the Advancers. I think you'll find the need to apply kiln wash to them.
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
June Perry on sun 9 dec 07
3 or my nitrate bonded shelves broke in half after one firing - all broke in
the same place across the narrow part about one third of the way in on the
length.
Nitrate bonded shelves can only go up to cone 11, for those of you who fire
higher and may be considering these shelves.
I'll stick with the advancers.
Regards,
June
_http://www.shambhalapottery.com_ (http://www.shambhalapottery.com/)
_http://shambhalapottery.blogspot.com_
(http://shambhalapottery.blogspot.com/)
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodasaltfiring_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodasaltfiring)
**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
Gayle Bair on sun 9 dec 07
Hi Paul,
I've been having similar plucking issues.
I suspect my kiln wash .... probably not enough alumina.
There was a thread recently with some good kiln wash recipes
which I'll check out.
I am interested in your wadding and have a couple questions for you.
Do you have a favorite wadding recipe?
Do you just use a few wads on the footring of a 12-14" bowl?
How & how much?
Thanks,
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
Tucson, AZ
www.claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Herman
Bruce,
I'm one of the kiln wash users, and fire some porcelain .
When I first got them, on some peoples recommendations I tried firing
bare, but the porcelain got severe plucking (chips breaking off the
foot).
The thing is, after a few firings the kiln wash starts to get sticky
and will make porcelain stick and cause plucking. If you keep adding
more layers, it gets lumpy and starts to cause warping. Some vitreous
white stoneware clays are liable to pluck and warp also. Gritty
stoneware clay I fire sitting on the kiln wash. Porcelain and
vitreous stoneware I fire on wads, like the common practice in wood
fired kilns. Wads are the best best for me, not only eliminating
plucking, but providing a stable base that discourages warping. Try
wads some time for an experiment.
Best wishes,
Paul Herman
Great Basin Pottery
Doyle, California US
http://greatbasinpottery.com
On Dec 7, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Bruce Girrell wrote:
> I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use
> kiln wash.
>
> When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
> shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said
> that in
> most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln
> wash is
> advisable.
>
> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or
> unwashed?
>
> Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
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melpots2@visi.com
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Geraldine Wallace on sun 9 dec 07
I use wads all the time when firing porcelain in my elec. kiln to cone
10....
couldn't agree with Paul more about their worth! gerry wallace
On Dec 8, 2007, at 10:32 PM, Paul Herman wrote:
> Bruce,
>
> I'm one of the kiln wash users, and fire some porcelain .
>
> When I first got them, on some peoples recommendations I tried firing
> bare, but the porcelain got severe plucking (chips breaking off the
> foot).
>
> The thing is, after a few firings the kiln wash starts to get sticky
> and will make porcelain stick and cause plucking. If you keep adding
> more layers, it gets lumpy and starts to cause warping. Some vitreous
> white stoneware clays are liable to pluck and warp also. Gritty
> stoneware clay I fire sitting on the kiln wash. Porcelain and
> vitreous stoneware I fire on wads, like the common practice in wood
> fired kilns. Wads are the best best for me, not only eliminating
> plucking, but providing a stable base that discourages warping. Try
> wads some time for an experiment.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Paul Herman
>
> Great Basin Pottery
> Doyle, California US
> http://greatbasinpottery.com
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Bruce Girrell wrote:
>
>> I see that most responding to this indicate that they don't use
>> kiln wash.
>>
>> When we were at NCECA in Louisville, I talked with a vendor for these
>> shelves (name brand Advancers, not just SiC shelves) and he said
>> that in
>> most cases, no kiln wash is needed, but that for porcelain kiln
>> wash is
>> advisable.
>>
>> Anyone out there using Advancers for porcelain work? Washed or
>> unwashed?
>>
>> Bruce "among the great unwashed" Girrell
>>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
Tom at Hutchtel.net on mon 17 dec 07
I don't think so either, especially after seeing them. I'm going to keep a
log on our experience and will post it in the future. I was interested to
note that a couple of them were warped in the box.
I look at this as one of those things where everyone goes 'oooooo...look at
the cheap price', never looking at the quality. Seems to be a modern
cultural thing. WalMart anyone?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "William & Susan Schran User"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
> On 12/9/07 10:58 AM, "Tom at Hutchtel.net" wrote:
>
>> I just ordered a half dozen Chinese Silicon nitrite bonded and we'll
>> stick
>> them into the mix to see if there is any difference. $45 each plus 10%
>> packing and about $125 shipping. They'll be a good deal only if they
>> perform as well as the Advancers.
>
> Hate to burst your bubble, but I seriously doubt they will perform as well
> as the Advancers. I think you'll find the need to apply kiln wash to them.
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
Larry Kruzan on mon 17 dec 07
Hi Tom, If I can throw in my 2 cents worth - you should contact the supplier
about the warped shelves, I would be real upset and disappointed with that.
I have been using the Chinese shelves for two years and have not had any
issues at all. No kiln wash needed.
I made a post a few months ago giving my experience with them - never have
kiln washed them, bought a bunch more when I rebuilt the kiln and made it
bigger. A very happy camper. Keep them dry, as you should with any other
type, three post, stack on edge, don't drop, etc, etc, you know the list.
I know our friend Bill, who I highly respect and admire, disagrees with me
on this but I use them, he does not.
My brother and I share a interest in astronomy. He has lots of money and
buys the best telescope and eyepieces. I do not have a lot of money and
choose to build my telescopes and equipment. Specifications indicate that
his scope is superior to mine by a few percent, We both enjoy the same sky.
If I brake something I just go fix it and I enjoy that too. If he brakes a
part he has to wait for a replacement and is frustrated.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Tom at
Hutchtel.net
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:08 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] kiln wash on advancers
I don't think so either, especially after seeing them. I'm going to keep a
log on our experience and will post it in the future. I was interested to
note that a couple of them were warped in the box.
I look at this as one of those things where everyone goes 'oooooo...look at
the cheap price', never looking at the quality. Seems to be a modern
cultural thing. WalMart anyone?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "William & Susan Schran User"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
> On 12/9/07 10:58 AM, "Tom at Hutchtel.net" wrote:
>
>> I just ordered a half dozen Chinese Silicon nitrite bonded and we'll
>> stick
>> them into the mix to see if there is any difference. $45 each plus 10%
>> packing and about $125 shipping. They'll be a good deal only if they
>> perform as well as the Advancers.
>
> Hate to burst your bubble, but I seriously doubt they will perform as well
> as the Advancers. I think you'll find the need to apply kiln wash to them.
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Victoria E. Hamilton on mon 17 dec 07
Larry -
I notice you mention "stack on edge." Do you mean that they should be
stored up on end rather than flat one on top of another?
Thanks.
Vicki Hamilton
Millennia Antica Pottery
Seattle, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Larry Kruzan
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 2:03 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
Hi Tom, If I can throw in my 2 cents worth - you should contact the supplier
about the warped shelves, I would be real upset and disappointed with that.
I have been using the Chinese shelves for two years and have not had any
issues at all. No kiln wash needed.
I made a post a few months ago giving my experience with them - never have
kiln washed them, bought a bunch more when I rebuilt the kiln and made it
bigger. A very happy camper. Keep them dry, as you should with any other
type, three post, stack on edge, don't drop, etc, etc, you know the list.
I know our friend Bill, who I highly respect and admire, disagrees with me
on this but I use them, he does not.
My brother and I share a interest in astronomy. He has lots of money and
buys the best telescope and eyepieces. I do not have a lot of money and
choose to build my telescopes and equipment. Specifications indicate that
his scope is superior to mine by a few percent, We both enjoy the same sky.
If I brake something I just go fix it and I enjoy that too. If he brakes a
part he has to wait for a replacement and is frustrated.
Larry
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Tom at
Hutchtel.net
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:08 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] kiln wash on advancers
I don't think so either, especially after seeing them. I'm going to keep a
log on our experience and will post it in the future. I was interested to
note that a couple of them were warped in the box.
I look at this as one of those things where everyone goes 'oooooo...look at
the cheap price', never looking at the quality. Seems to be a modern
cultural thing. WalMart anyone?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "William & Susan Schran User"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
> On 12/9/07 10:58 AM, "Tom at Hutchtel.net" wrote:
>
>> I just ordered a half dozen Chinese Silicon nitrite bonded and we'll
>> stick them into the mix to see if there is any difference. $45 each
>> plus 10% packing and about $125 shipping. They'll be a good deal
>> only if they perform as well as the Advancers.
>
> Hate to burst your bubble, but I seriously doubt they will perform as
> well as the Advancers. I think you'll find the need to apply kiln wash to
them.
>
>
> --
> William "Bill" Schran
> wschran@cox.net
> wschran@nvcc.edu
> http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Victoria E. Hamilton on tue 18 dec 07
Thanks Maggie.
Duly noted. 39 years in this business and still learning!
Vicki Hamilton
Millennia Antica Pottery
Seattle, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Maggie Jones
Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:36 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
I even stack bricks on edge...I learned that from Jom Romberg at sun
vally idaho. think like glass. ever seen a truck transporting large
sheets of glass? all on edge.
maggie
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:19:46 -0800 "Victoria E. Hamilton"
writes:
> Larry -
>
> I notice you mention "stack on edge." Do you mean that they should be
> stored up on end rather than flat one on top of another?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Vicki Hamilton
> Millennia Antica Pottery
> Seattle, WA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Larry
> Kruzan
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 2:03 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
>
> Hi Tom, If I can throw in my 2 cents worth - you should contact the
> supplier about the warped shelves, I would be real upset and
> disappointed with that.
> I have been using the Chinese shelves for two years and have not had
> any issues at all. No kiln wash needed.
>
> I made a post a few months ago giving my experience with them - never
> have kiln washed them, bought a bunch more when I rebuilt the kiln and
> made it bigger. A very happy camper. Keep them dry, as you should
> with any other type, three post, stack on edge, don't drop, etc, etc,
> you know the list.
>
> I know our friend Bill, who I highly respect and admire, disagrees
> with me on this but I use them, he does not.
>
> My brother and I share a interest in astronomy. He has lots of money
> and buys the best telescope and eyepieces. I do not have a lot of
> money and choose to build my telescopes and equipment. Specifications
> indicate that his scope is superior to mine by a few percent, We both
> enjoy the same sky.
> If I brake something I just go fix it and I enjoy that too. If he
> brakes a part he has to wait for a replacement and is frustrated.
>
> Larry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Tom at
> Hutchtel.net
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:08 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: [CLAYART] kiln wash on advancers
>
> I don't think so either, especially after seeing them. I'm going to
> keep a log on our experience and will post it in the future. I was
> interested to note that a couple of them were warped in the box.
> I look at this as one of those things where everyone goes
> 'oooooo...look at the cheap price', never looking at the quality.
> Seems to be a modern cultural thing. WalMart anyone?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William & Susan Schran User"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
>
>
> > On 12/9/07 10:58 AM, "Tom at Hutchtel.net"
> wrote:
> >
> >> I just ordered a half dozen Chinese Silicon nitrite bonded and
> we'll
> >> stick them into the mix to see if there is any difference. $45
> each
> >> plus 10% packing and about $125 shipping. They'll be a good
> deal
> >> only if they perform as well as the Advancers.
> >
> > Hate to burst your bubble, but I seriously doubt they will perform
> as
> > well as the Advancers. I think you'll find the need to apply kiln
> wash to
> them.
> >
> >
> > --
> > William "Bill" Schran
> > wschran@cox.net
> > wschran@nvcc.edu
> > http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________
___
> __
> > Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or
> change
> > your subscription settings here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots2@visi.com
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
___
> __
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
___
> __
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Maggie Jones on tue 18 dec 07
I even stack bricks on edge...I learned that from Jom Romberg at sun
vally idaho. think like glass. ever seen a truck transporting large
sheets of glass? all on edge.
maggie
On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:19:46 -0800 "Victoria E. Hamilton"
writes:
> Larry -
>
> I notice you mention "stack on edge." Do you mean that they should
> be
> stored up on end rather than flat one on top of another?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Vicki Hamilton
> Millennia Antica Pottery
> Seattle, WA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Larry
> Kruzan
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 2:03 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
>
> Hi Tom, If I can throw in my 2 cents worth - you should contact the
> supplier
> about the warped shelves, I would be real upset and disappointed
> with that.
> I have been using the Chinese shelves for two years and have not had
> any
> issues at all. No kiln wash needed.
>
> I made a post a few months ago giving my experience with them -
> never have
> kiln washed them, bought a bunch more when I rebuilt the kiln and
> made it
> bigger. A very happy camper. Keep them dry, as you should with any
> other
> type, three post, stack on edge, don't drop, etc, etc, you know the
> list.
>
> I know our friend Bill, who I highly respect and admire, disagrees
> with me
> on this but I use them, he does not.
>
> My brother and I share a interest in astronomy. He has lots of
> money and
> buys the best telescope and eyepieces. I do not have a lot of money
> and
> choose to build my telescopes and equipment. Specifications
> indicate that
> his scope is superior to mine by a few percent, We both enjoy the
> same sky.
> If I brake something I just go fix it and I enjoy that too. If he
> brakes a
> part he has to wait for a replacement and is frustrated.
>
> Larry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Tom at
> Hutchtel.net
> Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:08 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: [CLAYART] kiln wash on advancers
>
> I don't think so either, especially after seeing them. I'm going to
> keep a
> log on our experience and will post it in the future. I was
> interested to
> note that a couple of them were warped in the box.
> I look at this as one of those things where everyone goes
> 'oooooo...look at
> the cheap price', never looking at the quality. Seems to be a
> modern
> cultural thing. WalMart anyone?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William & Susan Schran User"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: kiln wash on advancers
>
>
> > On 12/9/07 10:58 AM, "Tom at Hutchtel.net"
> wrote:
> >
> >> I just ordered a half dozen Chinese Silicon nitrite bonded and
> we'll
> >> stick them into the mix to see if there is any difference. $45
> each
> >> plus 10% packing and about $125 shipping. They'll be a good
> deal
> >> only if they perform as well as the Advancers.
> >
> > Hate to burst your bubble, but I seriously doubt they will perform
> as
> > well as the Advancers. I think you'll find the need to apply kiln
> wash to
> them.
> >
> >
> > --
> > William "Bill" Schran
> > wschran@cox.net
> > wschran@nvcc.edu
> > http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________________
___
> __
> > Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or
> change
> > your subscription settings here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots2@visi.com
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
___
> __
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
___
> __
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
| |
|
