Neil on fri 14 dec 07
Thanks Bruce..I will try and repost
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Girrell"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: Liquid propane burners
> Neil
>
> Nils Lou has built such a burner and Axner sells them (other may also sell
> them, but Axner was the first that I found in a search). See:
> http://www.axner.com/axner/equipment/nofreeze-raku-burners.php
>
>
> Welcome to Clayart.
>
> I do suggest that you make sure to use a subject with your posts. Many
> people, including me, simply delete posts without a subject line.
>
> Bruce Girrell
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
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> melpots2@visi.com
Bruce Girrell on fri 14 dec 07
Neil
Nils Lou has built such a burner and Axner sells them (other may also sell
them, but Axner was the first that I found in a search). See:
http://www.axner.com/axner/equipment/nofreeze-raku-burners.php
Welcome to Clayart.
I do suggest that you make sure to use a subject with your posts. Many
people, including me, simply delete posts without a subject line.
Bruce Girrell
Ellen Currans on mon 17 dec 07
When we built our first MFT kiln in the early 80's we bought two liquid prop=
ane burners from Nils. =C2=A0We understood the main reason for them was the=20=
ability to fire in extremely cold weather (like Minnesota) without the propa=
ne lines freezing up, =C2=A0but also they were just kind of the standard bur=
ners suggested for his kiln. =C2=A0Nils was living near us in Oregon and we=20=
had his advice on building our kiln. We fired our kiln about 25 times with t=
he burners before we switched to two forced air home made burners coming in=20=
the same two back ports. =C2=A0One of the reasons we switched was that our c=
losest neighbor, about 600 yards through the woods always knew when we were=20=
firing. =C2=A0The burners were loud enough to be heard over at his place, so=
you can imagine how loud=C2=A0and annoying they were in the studio. =C2=A0=20=
I also felt that they created a lot of pressure in the kiln which slowly ope=
ned up the cracks between the bricks. =C2=A0Rather than tear it down and reb=
uild just then, we covered the whole kiln with a layer of fiber and a metal=20=
jacket over that in order to make it tight again.=C2=A0
We sold the burners to another potter who has used them and loved them ever=20=
since. =C2=A0If I were ever to move to a really cold climate I might buy the=
m if if it were the only way I could fire through the winter. =C2=A0At 75, m=
y crystal ball tells me I am not likely to do that!
Ellen Currans
In wet, but not too cold Dundee, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary & Wes Handrow
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: Liquid propane burners
The base manufacturer can be found at burnersinc.com. For kilns use the
stainless steel burners.
Neil
Nils Lou has built such a burner and Axner sells them (other may also sell
them, but Axner was the first that I found in a search). See:
http://www.axner.com/axner/equipment/nofreeze-raku-burners.php
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
____________________________________________________________________________=
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.co=
m
=20
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.=
aol.com
James and Sherron Bowen on mon 17 dec 07
We have fired our Ransome B-4s in really cold weather and never had a
problem. We have had a propane tank ice up so that we lost presure. We used
a John Deere oil fired shop heater to warm up the tank and that solved that
problem.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellen Currans"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Liquid propane burners
Mary & Wes Handrow on mon 17 dec 07
The base manufacturer can be found at burnersinc.com. For kilns use the
stainless steel burners.
Neil
Nils Lou has built such a burner and Axner sells them (other may also sell
them, but Axner was the first that I found in a search). See:
http://www.axner.com/axner/equipment/nofreeze-raku-burners.php
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Neil on tue 18 dec 07
Thanks Ellen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellen Currans"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Liquid propane burners
When we built our first MFT kiln in the early 80's we bought two liquid
propane burners from Nils. We understood the main reason for them was the
ability to fire in extremely cold weather (like Minnesota) without the
propane lines freezing up, but also they were just kind of the standard
burners suggested for his kiln. Nils was living near us in Oregon and we had
his advice on building our kiln. We fired our kiln about 25 times with the
burners before we switched to two forced air home made burners coming in the
same two back ports. One of the reasons we switched was that our closest
neighbor, about 600 yards through the woods always knew when we were firing.
The burners were loud enough to be heard over at his place, so you can
imagine how loud and annoying they were in the studio. I also felt that they
created a lot of pressure in the kiln which slowly opened up the cracks
between the bricks. Rather than tear it down and rebuild just then, we
covered the whole kiln with a layer of fiber and a metal jacket over that in
order to make it tight again.
We sold the burners to another potter who has used them and loved them ever
since. If I were ever to move to a really cold climate I might buy them if
if it were the only way I could fire through the winter. At 75, my crystal
ball tells me I am not likely to do that!
Ellen Currans
In wet, but not too cold Dundee, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary & Wes Handrow
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 5:38 pm
Subject: Re: Liquid propane burners
The base manufacturer can be found at burnersinc.com. For kilns use the
stainless steel burners.
Neil
Nils Lou has built such a burner and Axner sells them (other may also sell
them, but Axner was the first that I found in a search). See:
http://www.axner.com/axner/equipment/nofreeze-raku-burners.php
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
________________________________________________________________________
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail.aol.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Tom at Hutchtel.net on tue 18 dec 07
The not so cheap solution to this for production potters is to install a
vaporizer in the gas line. It takes a separate wet circuit from the tank,
then feeds into the regular feed line. We had regular freeze-up problems
using first one, then 2 - 1000 gal tanks when the outside temp dropped below
about 15 degF, not an unusual occurrence here.
Our gas company suggested a vaporizer. I'd never heard of them. We looked
for a used one and couldn't find one. Most were gas and used in corn dryers
around here. The gas co. wasn't so keen on using the gas version because if
you get any kind of leak, you're history. Also, the separate units had to
be 50 feet from both the tank and any building, which put it directly in the
center of the yard.
So, electric it was. $3000 for the unit plus electrical (which we have to
have done commercially) total about $5500. But we haven't had a problem
since. It kicks in when the pressure in the kiln line drops below normal
pressure, so the kiln never flickers. It has saved several loads so far so
has easily paid for itself, plus makes firing shorter and far easier in cold
weather. The downside is that now we have an electric bill as well as gas
bill for winter firings.
Not cheap, but it helps keep us in business.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
snip>>Subject: Re: Liquid propane burners
>>>When we built our first MFT kiln in the early 80's we bought two liquid
>>>propane burners from Nils. We understood the main reason for them was the
>>>ability to fire in extremely cold weather (like Minnesota) without the
>>>propane lines freezing up,>>>>> The burners were loud enough to be heard
>>>over at his place, so you can imagine how loud and annoying they were in
>>>the studio. I also felt that they created a lot of pressure in the kiln
>>>which slowly opened up the cracks between the bricks.
Tom at Hutchtel.net on tue 18 dec 07
see my other post. But this one I hadn't read when I posted that. Heating
the tank was how I'd solved freeze-up until we got the vaporizer. Our gas
guy had a conniption when he found that out. Apparently, applying heat to
one side when the inside is very, very cold, causes the steel to kind of
crystallize....there's an official name for it. Over time, you set yourself
up for the tank to rupture. And let's see, 1000 gallons of propane blasting
uncontrolled on a heater ignition source should be at least good for
roasting wienies.
Another cheap solution that, if you get caught becomes very expensive.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Liquid propane burners
> We have fired our Ransome B-4s in really cold weather and never had a
> problem. We have had a propane tank ice up so that we lost presure. We
> used
> a John Deere oil fired shop heater to warm up the tank and that solved
> that
> problem.
> JB
>
Vince Pitelka on tue 18 dec 07
Tom Wirt wrote:
> So, electric it was. $3000 for the unit plus electrical (which we have=
to
> have done commercially) total about $5500. But we haven't had a proble=
m
> since. It kicks in when the pressure in the kiln line drops below norm=
al
> pressure, so the kiln never flickers. It has saved several loads so fa=
r
> so
> has easily paid for itself, plus makes firing shorter and far easier in
> cold
> weather. The downside is that now we have an electric bill as well as =
gas
> bill for winter firings.
> Not cheap, but it helps keep us in business.
Tom -
During the three years I taught in Fargo, we did a lot of raku firings in
the winter. We were just using little 20-lb propane tanks, and when they
started to freeze up we just set them in a rubber livestock feeding tub
with a foot or so of warm water. Rather than either of the expensive
vaporizers you discuss, why couldn't a person install a standard gas hot
water heater in a small shed a reasonable distance from the propane tank?=
=20
You could tightly wrap coils of flexible copper tube (for maximum heat
conductivity) around the outside of the tank, install a temporary
insulation shroud outside the coils to direct all the heat inwards, and
then simply run a continuous loop with a circulating pump connected to th=
e
inlet and outlet hookups on the hot water heater. The whole thing could
be controlled by thermostatic sensors on the tank located at the critical
areas where freeze-up occurs. Any reason why this wouldn't work? If so,
I apologize for not having suggested it before you shelled out the big
bucks for the electric unit.
- Vince
--=20
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
vpitelka@dtccom.net
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
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