John Rodgers on sat 29 dec 07
Fred,
I have thrown forms similar with long necks by using a section of a
broom handle to pull the clay up on to prevent the neck from collapsing.
I saw Steven Hill pull clay on a pool cue for pitcher spouts, so I
figured what the heck - why not a broom handle to keep a neck or spout,
rather than a tapered one. Worked, but a bit of a PITA. I had to use a
good bit of water to keep the clay from grabbing the handle, to keep it
climbing up the broom handle and sliding along the wood. You might try
a little glycerin or something to make it a bit more slippery. I had
sticking problems in spite of my efforts to prevent sticking and
grabbing. Lost at lease as many as I made. Not my favorite thing.
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Fred Parker wrote:
> Hello All:
>
> I'm into bowls big time. I love making them and I love the fact that
> every so often someone wanders by who actually wants to own one of mine.
> I enjoy making them so much I'm about to start making more of them.
>
> BUT...
>
> I'm itching to add a new form to my meager skills inventory. I would like
> to learn to throw a spherical bottle with a very narrow throat -- the kind
> that looks a little like a ball on a base with a narrow tube extending out
> the top.
>
> If anyone is willing to offer advice I would certainly appreciate the help.
>
> Fred Parker
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
>
>
Fred Parker on sat 29 dec 07
Hello All:
I'm into bowls big time. I love making them and I love the fact that
every so often someone wanders by who actually wants to own one of mine.
I enjoy making them so much I'm about to start making more of them.
BUT...
I'm itching to add a new form to my meager skills inventory. I would like
to learn to throw a spherical bottle with a very narrow throat -- the kind
that looks a little like a ball on a base with a narrow tube extending out
the top.
If anyone is willing to offer advice I would certainly appreciate the help.
Fred Parker
Michael Wendt on sun 30 dec 07
Fred,
This is a job for ...
Assembly Man!
Throw two hemispherical
bowls and join them at
the lip. Attach the narrow
neck after you cut a hole
for it and trim to final form.
If you are careful to make the
inside very regular and as close
to the desired outside shape as
you can, trimming the final
outside shape is much easier.
Try small and medium sizes first
for practice getting the assembly
methods and timing for your clay
body right. Then make the large
one.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave.
Lewiston, Id 83501
U.S.A.
208-746-3724
wendtpot@lewiston.com
http://www.wendtpottery.com
http://UniquePorcelainDesigns.com
Fred wrote:
Hello All:
I'm into bowls big time. I love making them and I love
the fact that
every so often someone wanders by who actually wants to
own one of mine.
I enjoy making them so much I'm about to start making
more of them.
BUT...
I'm itching to add a new form to my meager skills
inventory. I would like
to learn to throw a spherical bottle with a very narrow
throat -- the kind
that looks a little like a ball on a base with a narrow
tube extending out
the top.
If anyone is willing to offer advice I would certainly
appreciate the help.
Fred Parker
Lee on sun 30 dec 07
On Dec 30, 2007 1:25 PM, John Rodgers wrote:
> I have thrown forms similar with long necks by using a section of a
> broom handle to pull the clay up on to prevent the neck from collapsing.
I often use throwing sticks. If you use a stick shaped
for throwing, it is much easier than using a broomstick. I will
photo some of my sticks later today.
When I make my pilgrim flasks, they often start out
spherical. Then I flatten them.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Logan Johnson on sun 30 dec 07
Hi Fred,
I found when doing forms like that a straight stick in the neck has more surface area touching the clay creating more suction causing the clay to stick to the stick/broom handle /dowel. (whatever you use) There are a couple of things I do to
minimize the problem.If I'm making a long neck I get a 1/2" dowel & a blob of epoxy putty. I roll the putty into a ball & push it onto the stick about 1/2 way up.
Then I smooth the top of the ball against the stick & let it sit over night to play it safe. If you use the ball against the clay instead of the stick less surface area etc.etc.
If I'm making a smaller neck I use either an African porcupine quill (the largest one I can find... love ya Pinky !!!) or a slightly curved round bamboo chop stick. By using the outside of the curve against the clay again you reduce the amount of stick surface area touching clay.
I often don't express myself well so if you want pics just let me know it's not a problem.
Happy New Year !!!
Logan
Logan Johnson
Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply
719 w. Nob Hill blvd.
Yakima Wa. 98902
(509) 469-6966
www.yakimavalleypottery.net
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Rogier Donker on mon 31 dec 07
Hey Fred...
Bottles, eh? :-) Nice bottles, of the kind you want
to throw, are among the hardest forms to master because you have to
make the bottom part before the top is even in existence. You have to
develop a sense of being able to look into the future so to speak.
Begin with throwing a eight inch high tapered cylinder. Keep the top
as small as possible and ,with each draw, close it up some more.
Three draws should produce a nicely tapered cylinder, about four
inches in diameter on the bottom, two at the top. Wall thickness
about three eights... I know you want a spherical form, but let's
concentrate on making a neck first.... Two thirds up on the tapered
cylinder start a choke. The "six point choke" rather than the full
hand choke. Six point choke: index finger tip,thumb tip and below it
the middle finger center digit = three points of contact x 2 = six
points of contact. Tip your hands a bit so all six contact points are
about on the same level. You got the thing surrounded! The middle
finger center digit does the actual choking, the thumb and index
finger tips kind of "pre-choke" the neck... and as you choke, do
not constrict the clay laterally across between the contact points
but think UP, UP and away in a fluid non-stop upward motion... In
other words, don't hesitate! This will both constrict the neck, make
the wall thickness thinner and, if you do it right makes it taller.
Choke too hard and you'll rip the whole thing apart.... Give the clay
a chance to conform to your pressure... None of this operation is
easy! When the neck is too small in diameter for a six point choke,
go with a four point choke.... just the tips of index fingers and
thumbs... It takes quite a bit of practice... Once you have mastered
the neck forming, start again, but this time push the bottom part of
the cylinder into the spherical shape you really want before
proceeding to form the neck. Once the bottom is sort of spherical,
form the neck and THEN: to get that really nice spherical form, give
the thing a "blow job" (Yep that's what it is called.) Just before
you finish off the neck, put your mouth to the form, build up
pressure inside and give it another spurt of air. The form will "blow
up" like a balloon.... be sure and don't push DOWN on the form while
doing the blow job, or you'll ruin it. Also be sure not to blow too
hard, clay ain't latex! Afterwards finish off the neck... Of course
your wall thickness will have to be uniform and rather thin in order
to accomplish all of that.... Experience, experience, experience and
then some more practice! Have fun!
Rogier
P.S. See us on the web at http://www.donkerstudio.org
vpitelka on mon 31 dec 07
I haven't followed this thread very closely, so please forgive me if this
repeats things that have already been suggested. One of the most important
accessories that will help you throw a rounded form with tall narrow neck is
a "jug finger" or "potter's finger." Basically it's just a narrow, curved
throwing stick, although I prefer one with a piece of sponge wrapped over
the end and then a piece of chamois wrapped over that to form a soft ball.
It helps to have a good size handle on the other end of the jug finger, and
you can improvise that however you wish. I just cut mine from a piece of
hardwood eight to twelve inches long, four or five inches wide, and an inch
thick, creating a handle on one end, and then a narrow curved shaft. The
shaft is about 1/2" in diameter, and stays that diameter right to the end,
where I round it off. I use the corner of the stone on a bench grinder to
cut a shallow groove around the shaft about a half inch back from the end,
and then after I wrap the sponge and then the chamois over the end, I wrap
copper wire around the chamois right where the groove is located, and then
twist the wire tightly with pliers, drawing the chamois slightly into the
groove, locking the ball-end onto the shaft. Without that groove in the
shaft, after repeated wetting and drying the sponge and chamois will just
slip right off.
Leave the business end of the jug finger soaking in your water bucket before
use, and here's how you use it. Throw the form as a narrow cylinder, and
start to expand the body, leaving enough clay in the rim to form the neck.
Don't expand the body as far as you really want it, and leave enough
thickness so that you will be able to stretch it out further. Remove all
water from the inside bottom and walls, and then collar in the rim. Start
raising the neck from the extra clay in the rim, but if you want a tall
narrow neck, stop while you can still get the jug finger inside and finalize
the shape of the body. The required curve of the jug finger and the time
when you do this shaping will only come from experience, so experiment away.
Make several jug fingers with different lengths and curvatures.
Remove the jug finger from the water bucket and shake it off. Stick the
ball-end in the neck, and use it to bring out the wall and shoulder of the
body to create the rounded form you want, with your fingers running lightly
against the clay on the outside corresponding to the jug finger's location
on the inside. This will close up any stretch cracks and lightly compress
the clay, increasing structural integrity. The secret is to accomplish this
with minimal water. Remove all water and slurry from the outside with a
sponge or preferably a metal rib before you use the jug finger. The water in
the sponge inside the chamois will lubricate the ball-end of the jug finger
enough to make it run smoothly against the clay inside the body. With this
technique you can bring the form out to a nice sphere, and it will have
enough structural integrity to allow you to finish the neck.
When finishing the neck, just apply a little slurry from the rim of your
water bucket, and throw with your fingertips to minimize friction. Don't
use water, because it will drip down inside and outside the form and
compromise the strength of the body. To get a very tall, thin neck, use a
throwing stick. I just take a 8" length of 1/2" or 5/8" dowel and grind
down the shaft on the bench grinder so it is still full thickness for three
inches at one end to serve as a handle, and then has a shaft about four
inches long and 1/4" in diameter, and then a full-thickness ball shaped on
the business end. Lower that into the neck, and with the throwing stick on
the inside and your fingers on the outside, you can continue pulling the
neck upwards and reducing the diameter. Practice this enough and you can
pull up a ridiculously tall, thin neck. There's a happy medium somewhere,
but it will depend on the particular form and decoration.
Good luck and happy New Year -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Maggie Jones on mon 31 dec 07
The best trick I learned for round forms and bottle necks is to keep the
rim thicker to prevent folding or twisting as you collar. (unless you
are trying an Ohr effect...another trick altogether) The particles can
merge easier when collaring with a thicker rim.
remember collaring is mushing clay and ribbing or pulling compresses.
maggie
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:41:54 -0600 vpitelka writes:
> I haven't followed this thread very closely, so please forgive me if
> this
> repeats things that have already been suggested. One of the most
> important
> accessories that will help you throw a rounded form with tall narrow
> neck is
> a "jug finger" or "potter's finger." Basically it's just a narrow,
> curved
> throwing stick, although I prefer one with a piece of sponge wrapped
> over
> the end and then a piece of chamois wrapped over that to form a soft
> ball.
> It helps to have a good size handle on the other end of the jug
> finger, and
> you can improvise that however you wish. I just cut mine from a
> piece of
> hardwood eight to twelve inches long, four or five inches wide, and
> an inch
> thick, creating a handle on one end, and then a narrow curved shaft.
> The
> shaft is about 1/2" in diameter, and stays that diameter right to
> the end,
> where I round it off. I use the corner of the stone on a bench
> grinder to
> cut a shallow groove around the shaft about a half inch back from
> the end,
> and then after I wrap the sponge and then the chamois over the end,
> I wrap
> copper wire around the chamois right where the groove is located,
> and then
> twist the wire tightly with pliers, drawing the chamois slightly
> into the
> groove, locking the ball-end onto the shaft. Without that groove in
> the
> shaft, after repeated wetting and drying the sponge and chamois will
> just
> slip right off.
>
> Leave the business end of the jug finger soaking in your water
> bucket before
> use, and here's how you use it. Throw the form as a narrow cylinder,
> and
> start to expand the body, leaving enough clay in the rim to form the
> neck.
> Don't expand the body as far as you really want it, and leave
> enough
> thickness so that you will be able to stretch it out further.
> Remove all
> water from the inside bottom and walls, and then collar in the rim.
> Start
> raising the neck from the extra clay in the rim, but if you want a
> tall
> narrow neck, stop while you can still get the jug finger inside and
> finalize
> the shape of the body. The required curve of the jug finger and the
> time
> when you do this shaping will only come from experience, so
> experiment away.
> Make several jug fingers with different lengths and curvatures.
>
> Remove the jug finger from the water bucket and shake it off. Stick
> the
> ball-end in the neck, and use it to bring out the wall and shoulder
> of the
> body to create the rounded form you want, with your fingers running
> lightly
> against the clay on the outside corresponding to the jug finger's
> location
> on the inside. This will close up any stretch cracks and lightly
> compress
> the clay, increasing structural integrity. The secret is to
> accomplish this
> with minimal water. Remove all water and slurry from the outside
> with a
> sponge or preferably a metal rib before you use the jug finger. The
> water in
> the sponge inside the chamois will lubricate the ball-end of the jug
> finger
> enough to make it run smoothly against the clay inside the body.
> With this
> technique you can bring the form out to a nice sphere, and it will
> have
> enough structural integrity to allow you to finish the neck.
>
> When finishing the neck, just apply a little slurry from the rim of
> your
> water bucket, and throw with your fingertips to minimize friction.
> Don't
> use water, because it will drip down inside and outside the form
> and
> compromise the strength of the body. To get a very tall, thin neck,
> use a
> throwing stick. I just take a 8" length of 1/2" or 5/8" dowel and
> grind
> down the shaft on the bench grinder so it is still full thickness
> for three
> inches at one end to serve as a handle, and then has a shaft about
> four
> inches long and 1/4" in diameter, and then a full-thickness ball
> shaped on
> the business end. Lower that into the neck, and with the throwing
> stick on
> the inside and your fingers on the outside, you can continue pulling
> the
> neck upwards and reducing the diameter. Practice this enough and
> you can
> pull up a ridiculously tall, thin neck. There's a happy medium
> somewhere,
> but it will depend on the particular form and decoration.
> Good luck and happy New Year -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
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