Forrest on sat 22 dec 07
I think Lynn is correct when she said the economy is affecting sales. Last
year I did a very respectable business at two local venues. This year I
added a nearby show (maybe 75 miles away) and did the same two shows as last
year - and one of those was extended by a day. My total sales were about
the same this year as last, but with twice the effort. I was down a little,
not much, but what I did find significant was the price point that sold the
best: $25 and under. I sold many fewer items this year, but my most
expensive items sold well. What didn't sell at all were items between $35
and $75. This was not just with my work, but overall with the potters
present at all these shows. Yet most said, when asked, that "it was a good
show."
Is this optimism? Denial? Failure to track sales? Desire to look successful?
Or just not wanting to look negative? Or it based on something else?
Receiving commissions or orders not paid at the show?
Just wondering and looking forward to a new, more prosperous year.
Rosemary Forrest
On 12/21/07 11:21 PM, "Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery"
wrote:
>>
>> I went to the recent ACC show in Charlotte NC. The isles were empty,
>> very few customers.
>> But all the artist said they were doing well and it was a "good
>> show" .
>> For some reason I felt it was the standard reply, and not a totally
>> truthful response.
>> But at $12 a person to get in,.......
>> People were willing to pay admission, seemed to be buying. I
>> noticed many were carrying at least one bag.
>> So maybe the artist WERE having a good show.
>
> I just did the ACC Sarasota show (easily the worst show of my entire
> life) and I was surrounded by people who had come from Charlotte. It
> was not a "good show." That WAS a line. Did some people do well? Of
> course. But I bet they were selling jewelry and wearables. ACC put
> pretty much no local advertising into their shows this fall-- and it
> showed in sales. I'm sure that the bad economy has a lot to do with
> poor sales, but to not push a high-end, competitively juried show
> that costs a small fortune for the artists to participate in...I know
> a bunch of people who are throwing up their hands and giving up on
> ACC shows.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> Lynn Goodman
> Fine Porcelain Pottery
> Cell 347-526-9805
> www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
L. P. Skeen on sat 22 dec 07
Folks who are raised in the South are taught that it's not good form to =
discuss personal finances with anyone outside your immediate family - =
it's considered crass. Therefore, when anyone comes up to me at a show =
and says, "How's it going for you?", my immediate answer is "Fine" or =
similar, especially if I don't know the person really well. There's =
really only one other person (around here) I'd be really truthful with =
if they asked.
That said, I think the answer to your questions is, more than likely, a =
desire to appear positive and successful. One tries hard, especially at =
a "bad" show, to put on a good front, lest one sit with a sour face and =
scare off the customers. A bad show is exhausting on many levels.
L
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Forrest=20
Yet most said, when asked, that "it was a good
show."
Is this optimism? Denial? Failure to track sales? Desire to look =
successful?
Or just not wanting to look negative? Or it based on something else?
Maggie Jones on sat 22 dec 07
it ain't just a southern thang...the northern protestant ethic has the
same attitude about discussing money..(dis-cussing, inneresting word
there)
from one who has spent each half of her life in both areas of the
country...did I say that right?
marketing is a constant challenge. It will always need adjustments in how
you go about it. For me,it is hard and frustrating because i just plain
don't have that promoting skill and my work has changed dramatically from
strictly functional wares to a wide variety of art pottery and sculpture.
It has called for attracting a different type of customer. As a result I
have been doing a bit of everything except the exhibitions because it
seems to take too long to gather a group of pieces and then hold them
while an exhibit proposal is being looked at or considered etc. Same with
online sales. My pieces are indiviual, how do i hold them until they get
an online bite? I haven't worked out that process.
I am getting to the age where I want the customers to come to me, like
Mel's situation, I like that.
This year was good for me. An Invite to the Mint Museum's potter's show
helped and was very encouraging. North carolina is getting swamped with
potters....how many times can you slice the pie? All pottery shows have
been blooming the past ten years and are very successful. For the 1st
time since 1977 I have felt the ugly head of competition which I really
don't like. Potter's have always been so generous with each other.
Jurying, alas, has always been quirky ,cliquish and odd.
Maggie
http://TurtleIslandPottery.com
Maggie and Freeman Jones
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:35:28 -0500 "L. P. Skeen"
writes:
> Folks who are raised in the South are taught that it's not good form
> to discuss personal finances with anyone outside your immediate
> family - it's considered crass. Therefore, when anyone comes up to
> me at a show and says, "How's it going for you?", my immediate
> answer is "Fine" or similar, especially if I don't know the person
> really well. There's really only one other person (around here) I'd
> be really truthful with if they asked.
>
> That said, I think the answer to your questions is, more than
> likely, a desire to appear positive and successful. One tries hard,
> especially at a "bad" show, to put on a good front, lest one sit
> with a sour face and scare off the customers. A bad show is
> exhausting on many levels.
>
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Forrest
> Yet most said, when asked, that "it was a good
> show."
>
> Is this optimism? Denial? Failure to track sales? Desire to look
> successful?
> Or just not wanting to look negative? Or it based on something
> else?
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
John Rodgers on sat 22 dec 07
Just an add to what Lisa has said here.
Southern attitudes about finances? Right on target. Appearances? That is
another "Southern Tradition". If you are going to present yourself, or
your product, then by golly, Grandma was going to see to it that you
LOOKED presentable along with the product. Hair combed, shoes shined,
every button buttoned, a smile on the face ( it didn't matter if the
shoes pinched - SMILE!) - and girls - pinch up your cheeks for a little
color. In other words, you look like you are SOMEBODY presenting the
worlds greatest widget. There was an image of success and performance
that had to be maintained. And that tradition is still very strong down
here. As difficult as it is sometimes, appearances do make a difference
- whether we like to admit it or not. It's just human psychology.
Everyone wants to think they got the best deal, their purchased item is
the best of the lot, their sales person is the very best and gave them
the best deal. That is just the way it is. Human nature. Deal with it.
Make it work for you.
Regarding slow economic times - as many know, I had a shop in Alaska or
a long time. Sold to and supplied mostly to the wholesale gift markets
in that state. Our products were in virtually every major town(major up
there is anything over 2500 people.The largest city - Anchorage and it's
suburbs, has half the population of the state in it - the remainder was
spread out in all the other little towns of the state.) Because of our
distribution web through out the state, with extension into the "Lower
48" , we could sense things happening economically through that web,
much like a spider senses lunch. A tweak here and a twang there, we knew
what was going on by monitoring how our orders, sales and collections
were running. Over time, we experienced numerous economic ups and downs,
and learned some interesting things. One surprise item was that for our
products, when the Lower 48 economy was good, the Alaska economy was
slow. And then it would switch. But here was a most crucial thing - we
found that during slow economic times in Alaska, those stores that
aggressively advertised during the slow period, did well, and those that
pulled in their horns, so to speak, over the slow economy, did poorly,
and the really weak ones failed completely. Since returning back to the
Deep South, I have seen this advertising weakness in shows several
times, and each time a lot of artists come away very unhappy, and
thinking about alternatives to doing the craft and art shows. This year
one of the biggest shows in the Birmingham area for the first time in
many years failed to adequately monitor it's advertising and compensate
for this slowing economy, and the show fell on it's butt this year. The
take at the "Gate" didn't even cover the cost of the space that was
leased for the show. Very sad.
So, being sensitive to the economy is of crucial importance, and a
careful study of shows and their performance is a very needed thing,
Once committed to do a show, very aggressive advertising and
presentation is a must to attract whatever customers there might happen
to be. It has been said here many times - and I will repeat it -
customers who buy art and fine crafts want to take a piece of the artist
home with them. Use that demand in your marketing and sales.
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
L. P. Skeen wrote:
> Folks who are raised in the South are taught that it's not good form to discuss personal finances with anyone outside your immediate family - it's considered crass. Therefore, when anyone comes up to me at a show and says, "How's it going for you?", my immediate answer is "Fine" or similar, especially if I don't know the person really well. There's really only one other person (around here) I'd be really truthful with if they asked.
>
> That said, I think the answer to your questions is, more than likely, a desire to appear positive and successful. One tries hard, especially at a "bad" show, to put on a good front, lest one sit with a sour face and scare off the customers. A bad show is exhausting on many levels.
>
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Forrest
> Yet most said, when asked, that "it was a good
> show."
>
> Is this optimism? Denial? Failure to track sales? Desire to look successful?
> Or just not wanting to look negative? Or it based on something else?
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
>
>
steve graber on sat 22 dec 07
John:
"Once committed to do a show, very aggressive advertising and presentation is a must to attract whatever customers there might happen
to be"
committment to perform is a biggie. use your own mailing lists, post cards, etc to also promote. don't expect the show promoter to do it all.
try www.overnightprints.com for VERY low post card printed costs for instance. get a batch of generic post cards, and use them for many years printing out updated stuff on the back for mailings. maybe 5% come to the show, but YOU brought them there. put a discount on the card, use the enticement. we all have a second to hand to a friend. why not to a customer who came to see you as well? all it takes is one customer to cover the cost of these post cards, another for postage. the rest are your gains.
~ boy i have a backyard FULL of seconds....
actually i have a bunch of easy clay stamps that make incense burner blocks that make great "extras" to these kind of customers.
see ya
Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
Claremont, California USA
The Steve Tool - for awesum texture on pots!
www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
----- Original Message ----
From: John Rodgers
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:56:33 PM
Subject: Re: An observation on shows
Just an add to what Lisa has said here.
Southern attitudes about finances? Right on target. Appearances? That is
another "Southern Tradition". If you are going to present yourself, or
your product, then by golly, Grandma was going to see to it that you
LOOKED presentable along with the product. Hair combed, shoes shined,
every button buttoned, a smile on the face ( it didn't matter if the
shoes pinched - SMILE!) - and girls - pinch up your cheeks for a little
color. In other words, you look like you are SOMEBODY presenting the
worlds greatest widget. There was an image of success and performance
that had to be maintained. And that tradition is still very strong down
here. As difficult as it is sometimes, appearances do make a difference
- whether we like to admit it or not. It's just human psychology.
Everyone wants to think they got the best deal, their purchased item is
the best of the lot, their sales person is the very best and gave them
the best deal. That is just the way it is. Human nature. Deal with it.
Make it work for you.
Regarding slow economic times - as many know, I had a shop in Alaska or
a long time. Sold to and supplied mostly to the wholesale gift markets
in that state. Our products were in virtually every major town(major up
there is anything over 2500 people.The largest city - Anchorage and it's
suburbs, has half the population of the state in it - the remainder was
spread out in all the other little towns of the state.) Because of our
distribution web through out the state, with extension into the "Lower
48" , we could sense things happening economically through that web,
much like a spider senses lunch. A tweak here and a twang there, we knew
what was going on by monitoring how our orders, sales and collections
were running. Over time, we experienced numerous economic ups and downs,
and learned some interesting things. One surprise item was that for our
products, when the Lower 48 economy was good, the Alaska economy was
slow. And then it would switch. But here was a most crucial thing - we
found that during slow economic times in Alaska, those stores that
aggressively advertised during the slow period, did well, and those that
pulled in their horns, so to speak, over the slow economy, did poorly,
and the really weak ones failed completely. Since returning back to the
Deep South, I have seen this advertising weakness in shows several
times, and each time a lot of artists come away very unhappy, and
thinking about alternatives to doing the craft and art shows. This year
one of the biggest shows in the Birmingham area for the first time in
many years failed to adequately monitor it's advertising and compensate
for this slowing economy, and the show fell on it's butt this year. The
take at the "Gate" didn't even cover the cost of the space that was
leased for the show. Very sad.
So, being sensitive to the economy is of crucial importance, and a
careful study of shows and their performance is a very needed thing,
Once committed to do a show, very aggressive advertising and
presentation is a must to attract whatever customers there might happen
to be. It has been said here many times - and I will repeat it -
customers who buy art and fine crafts want to take a piece of the artist
home with them. Use that demand in your marketing and sales.
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
L. P. Skeen wrote:
> Folks who are raised in the South are taught that it's not good form to discuss personal finances with anyone outside your immediate family - it's considered crass. Therefore, when anyone comes up to me at a show and says, "How's it going for you?", my immediate answer is "Fine" or similar, especially if I don't know the person really well. There's really only one other person (around here) I'd be really truthful with if they asked.
>
> That said, I think the answer to your questions is, more than likely, a desire to appear positive and successful. One tries hard, especially at a "bad" show, to put on a good front, lest one sit with a sour face and scare off the customers. A bad show is exhausting on many levels.
>
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Forrest
> Yet most said, when asked, that "it was a good
> show."
>
> Is this optimism? Denial? Failure to track sales? Desire to look successful?
> Or just not wanting to look negative? Or it based on something else?
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
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Lee on sun 23 dec 07
On Dec 23, 2007 6:56 AM, John Rodgers wrote:
> another "Southern Tradition". If you are going to present yourself, or
> your product, then by golly, Grandma was going to see to it that you
> LOOKED presentable along with the product. Hair combed, shoes shined,
> every button buttoned,
My Japanese Sempai and Kohai (senior and junior students of the
same teacher), all wear black suites and ties and white shirts to
their shows. They are there everyday,. greeting customers.
First time I went to Tokyo with them in a sempai's van, I
thought I was in a van full of Mormon missionaries, sans name tags.
;^)
Black suites double as funeral garb too.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Eleanora Eden on sun 23 dec 07
At the end of packing up a surprisingly disappointing show this fall I went to chat a moment with another
woman who was still packing up. She was not a happy camper and, as I sometimes do, I got very truthy
in my response as to how I did. I told her, of course, that we each have got to find our own "good" and
"bad" for any show, but I told her what my requirement is to say a show met my expectations and how much
this show had actually made for me.
She was so grateful that I had been frank with her! She said it again and again. My truthful response
helped her put her own earnings in perspective and she left feeling less depressed and determined to
do better next time.
Personally, I can well understand the necessity of keeping the chin up and appearing positive at all times
during a fair. There is a certain brand of customer who is always assuming you are doing badly and
they make me totally crazy. A positive front is critical. Yet, sometimes, a frank assessment can be a
nurturing gift.
Happy Holidays to all,
Eleanora
>Folks who are raised in the South are taught that it's not good form to discuss personal finances with anyone outside your immediate family - it's considered crass. Therefore, when anyone comes up to me at a show and says, "How's it going for you?", my immediate answer is "Fine" or similar, especially if I don't know the person really well. There's really only one other person (around here) I'd be really truthful with if they asked.
>
>That said, I think the answer to your questions is, more than likely, a desire to appear positive and successful. One tries hard, especially at a "bad" show, to put on a good front, lest one sit with a sour face and scare off the customers. A bad show is exhausting on many levels.
--
Bellows Falls Vermont
www.eleanoraeden.com
Richard Aerni on sun 23 dec 07
This kind of response, ie, the show is "good" or "ok" or "fine" is pretty
much meaningless to anyone. Of course, when you barely know someone, or
don't know them at all, and someone asks "how are you doing?", they don't
really want to hear about all your aches and pains, or the state of your
marriage. So, it's a tough call.
When I talk with friends about how a show is doing, I make sure, first of
all, that they occupy a similar market niche to mine. Asking a jeweler how
they are doing, and expecting that answer to be meaningful to a production
potter, is pretty foolish. Asking a high end ceramic sculptor how the show
is, and translating that answer to functional pots is also meaningless.
So, I try to talk with my peers, and I always ask frankly and forthrightly,
"what were your sales?" and ask for actual figures. I preface this by
asking if they are willing to talk about the show, and always volunteer my
figures first. As others have mentioned, there are a lot of reasons why
someone would not choose to share this information, and I respect all of
those reasons.
It has been interesting to be on the organizing committees of a couple of
shows, and reading the responses from the exhibitors. I'd never have
believed how well some folks do without checking these out. Of course, they
could be fudging the truth. And of course, we all know that some folks
suffer and do little business.
But, to me, there is no question that retail craft shows are not what they
used to be. I used to travel all over the country to do retail shows in the
80s and 90s because it was worth it to do so. Now, I tend to stick to
regional and local shows, and figure that my "national" business will be
handled by galleries and the internet. These shows cost less, require less
investment in time and travel, and the returns are often similar to shows
further away. I have talked with exhibitors from the Smithsonian, the
Philadelphia Museum Show, the Washington Craft Show and Baltimore ACE in the
past couple of years, and have been surprised at how low sales figures have
been in clay compared to the costs involved in doing the shows.
Happy holidays to all!
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
gayle bair on sun 23 dec 07
Lisa,
I guess will have to live with a "crass" label because I think the
only way to
truly improve a show or improve work for shows is to be honest about
sales.
How can one tell if it's one's work or a poorly run show if there is
no honest comparison. I fell for the "I did fine" once and was
spinningmy wheels for a year
because a friend said "I did well!". I was too polite to ask what
"well" meant in dollars. The next year I asked for what "well" meant
in dollars and the answer "I made my booth fee and a little more!".
That was the only 2x4 slap I needed for that issue! I was spinning my
wheels for a year trying to figure out what was wrong with my work,
pricing, booth, sales demeanor etc. etc. when in actuality I had made
nearly 8 times the booth fee.
I never sit with a sour face at a show as a matter of fact I rarely
sit! In fact, when doing poorly, I work harder... shifting display/
work around & talking to customers .
Sometimes I'll bring a piece to work on but do it toward the back of
my display behind a table so people see my work before they see what
I'm doing.
This past summer I participated in the 19th year of a garden show that
has had an art show also. They used to have the artists in one or more
of the gardens then several years ago they moved it to a separate
location & things went down hill from there.
The smell of $ went to their heads and brought in more artists which
wasn't a bad thing except the promo & signage was beyond terrible and
no one knew it was open top the public.
The next coffin nail was moving the site to a horrrible
location...where they almost literally buried us. The site was hidden,
hard to get to & oppressively hot. We were all exhibiting sun stroke
symptoms.
They refused offers of help from the artists and relied on incompetent
overworked staff and one poor volunteer. This show was organized by a
local non-profit Arts and Humanities council? Now the buzz is that
they plan to eliminate the art show. I wish we had known that last
summer!
The work displayed there was quite excellent with the exception of the
booth that had imported crap. Now there's another issue how the hell
does a juried show allow
imports to be displayed and sold?
Anyway I did well, due to repeat & new customers compared to 95% of
the other artists most of which didn't make their $150 booth fees.
When I heard most of them say they'd never do the show again I decided
to be proactive and passed around a tablet asking them to write their
issues and suggestions to improve the show with or without their
signatures. Everyone with the exception of one person wrote their
comments.
To my surprise a meeting was set up by the new director to address the
issues. To my dismay only 3 of us showed up! I will not be surprised
if the show is going to be eliminated.
So back to your "Doing Fine" when that is clearly not the case! It
flies in the face of my Northeastern blunt, honest, truthful or (as
you call it) crass form. It is the only way I can resolve and improve
issues. When someone came into my booth to look and/or buy they saw me
smiling but obviously not feeling well! I apologized and told them I
was not at my best due to the weather. They were very patient with me
even ....OMG...when I was so fried I had trouble making change! I was
down only about $100 from the last year's sales (which also was down
from previous years).
I think Kathi, Chris and Mel are pretty spot on with their
assessments. We have to be the same way with our assessments of
ourselves, our work and presentations.
If that can be done by being PC and saying "I did well" when in
actuality that is not the case someone please let me know what is the
formula for that so I can improve and be in good form too!
Gayle Bair -
just about recovered from shows, surgery,
mad dash to pack and get from the great NorthWet WA to
sunny but chilly Tucson AZ. My stay with wonderful Shula
was fabulous we talked & talked, looked at her work & her wonderful
collection of pottery, talked & talked, enjoyed her new house...
did I mention we talked and talked? That's just what I needed to
recharge my batteries! Thanks Shula!
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Dec 22, 2007, at 12:35 PM, L. P. Skeen wrote:
> Folks who are raised in the South are taught that it's not good form
> to discuss personal finances with anyone outside your immediate
> family - it's considered crass. Therefore, when anyone comes up to
> me at a show and says, "How's it going for you?", my immediate
> answer is "Fine" or similar, especially if I don't know the person
> really well. There's really only one other person (around here) I'd
> be really truthful with if they asked.
>
> That said, I think the answer to your questions is, more than
> likely, a desire to appear positive and successful. One tries hard,
> especially at a "bad" show, to put on a good front, lest one sit
> with a sour face and scare off the customers. A bad show is
> exhausting on many levels.
>
> L
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Forrest
> Yet most said, when asked, that "it was a good
> show."
>
> Is this optimism? Denial? Failure to track sales? Desire to look
> successful?
> Or just not wanting to look negative? Or it based on something else?
Forrest on sun 23 dec 07
I've enjoyed the various responses to my post and I hasten to add that
though I found the mentioned shows disappointing, my actions and demeanor
during the sale did not reflect that. Also, my questions were posed to
members of my guild, post mortem, not to other vendors or the general
public. We are currently in discussions about having our own show next
year, so the suggestions and ideas made in that direction were also helpful.
I agree that basic customer service, presentation and excellence in product
must all be present but that alone does not make a "good show" for the
artist. I try always to be accurate and firmly planted in reality, not
negative. However, when I observe a situation, I don't try to put an
artificially positive face on it, either. I believe it really does help
when we discuss things with objectivity, honesty and some common point of
reference.
That's why I like Clayart! Happy holidays one and all.
Rosemary Forrest
On 12/23/07 5:55 AM, "Lee" wrote:
> On Dec 23, 2007 6:56 AM, John Rodgers wrote:
>
>> another "Southern Tradition". If you are going to present yourself, or
>> your product, then by golly, Grandma was going to see to it that you
>> LOOKED presentable along with the product. Hair combed, shoes shined,
>> every button buttoned,
>
> My Japanese Sempai and Kohai (senior and junior students of the
> same teacher), all wear black suites and ties and white shirts to
> their shows. They are there everyday,. greeting customers.
>
> First time I went to Tokyo with them in a sempai's van, I
> thought I was in a van full of Mormon missionaries, sans name tags.
> ;^)
>
> Black suites double as funeral garb too.
>
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> "Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
> tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
> --Sen No Rikyu
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
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Eleanor on mon 24 dec 07
First, happy holidays to all and a huge THANK YOU for being here.
Last year I evolved from Dabbler to Seller and got my feet wet by
entering a craft fair at a local high school: in its sixth year;
requiring photos for entry; no factory-made goods; very modest booth
fee.
I had an attractive set-up, I was dressed nicely, I smiled at and
chatted with the customers, I kept busy, never sat down (well, hardly
ever).
I did "well", netted about four times the booth fee which of course
nowhere near covered my overhead, but since I don't need the money, I
was satisfied with the results of my first effort.
This year I was invited to participate again. My pots IMO, were better
than last year's, my set-up improved and I went in with high hopes.
I sold next to nothing: made about $35 over the booth fee.
I noticed that many vendors started packing up an hour before the fair
was supposed to end; I chatted with a few vendors who had been at this
fair last year; it was good last year, bad this year.
One of my friends who came to the sale remarked that the fault was the
"bad economy" -- what bad economy? Latest reports are that people have
been spending MORE on gifts this year than they did last year!
The craft guild I belong to, which unfortunately doesn't do any sales,
arranged for a show/sale with a small, out-of-the-way gallery which
does have a following. Many potters, including myself, brought some
very spectacular ware for this show. On opening day I spent the whole
day at the gallery and watched sales. Only two ceramic items were sold
-- one was mine! It has been over a week since, and I believe nothing
else has been sold.
Why? I have no clue. Certainly not greed in these cases: small booth
fee; low gallery commission of 35%.
The guild is finally looking into sales venues for guild members. I'd
sell from home in a heartbeat but you can't get to my house from
anywhere and there's no parking -- even the Halloween kids don't find
us. Someday we'll move.
My 2 bucks (inflation).
Eleanor Kohler
Centerport, NY
With thanks to Clayarter Marcey Sherman: she taught me everything I
know about selling.
Steve Slatin on mon 24 dec 07
Eleanor --
I believe Casey Stengal, a potter of men, once said
"In retail, nobody knows nothing." Or something of
the sort.
With rare exception few vendors have any idea how
their sales relate to attendance, to calendar dates,
to other events, etc. And things do change -- one
event will be scheduled for the fourth Saturday in a
month, another in a nearby location for the last
Saturday of a month, but every so often they won't
conflict and that fourth Saturday event will have
great sales ...
What is usually my best show of the year was
lousy this year, and I thought I'd end up with a
poor year overall. My profit was up 40% when
I did my totals, because I had so many good
ordinary weekends. But my best weekend last
year (July 4 weekend) was iffy at best.
Weather makes a difference in attendance.
Competing events make a difference in attendance.
But only so many people out of a mob are actually
buyers. And just a fraction of them are interested
in pottery. A 'dead' day in bad weather can be
great if a few people come by who really want
to buy quite a bit.
-- Steve Slatin
Eleanor wrote:
First, happy holidays to all and a huge THANK YOU for being here.
Last year I evolved from Dabbler to Seller and got my feet wet by
entering a craft fair at a local high school: in its sixth year;
requiring photos for entry; no factory-made goods; very modest booth
fee.
Steve Slatin --
History teaches us that there have been but few infringements of personal liberty by the state which have not been justified ...
in the name of righteousness and the public good, and few which
have not been directed ... at politically helpless minorities.
-- Harlan Fiske Stone
---------------------------------
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Pfeiffer Fire Arts on tue 25 dec 07
We do about 10x our fees at the few (4) shows we go to. All local, < 75 mi.,
and most have a great mix of craft ware, all are two day shows. We would not
do a show with a fee over about $150 as we know we will not likely to sell
over $1500. If our quality goes up so we could get some $100 + items we
would think about it. We sold very well at a new show we did this last
spring. One thing we note is what will sell very well at one show in a given
year may not sell in the next show or in the same show the following year.
One show we go to is a bluegrass feasible and the craft show is large but
not the main event, all kinds of junk and very good craft mixed in. Does not
seem to matter, people come to hear the music and after walk through the
craft fair. We always do well here and it is so close we would go to it
anyway just as advertising but it has been fun to do and profitable! We have
found that a good gage of the show is how many potters there are, if you are
going to be the only one it is not a show we what to go to.
We have found we can't stand the pain of the one day shows. Too much work
to setup and take down in one day.
Often scales can be very slow and we do not think you are doing to make the
gate and than in a rush late in the day things get much better. We do make a
wide range of types of were and none is over $60 so we are on the low side
of gifts and that matches the shows we go to. We sell $15 mugs and found if
we raise the price they do not sell as well and I enjoy making then, great
learning shape. We hope to get better and at some point get into more
galleries but it may be a few years before that happens but we have found a
shop that sells our ware. All we need is about 10 more like this one and we
would stop doing shows.
Merry Christmas to all.
Dan & Laurel.
Larry Kruzan on tue 25 dec 07
I've only been at this thing for a couple years and still learn a lot each
time I set up. This year I did 16 shows/craft sales/market events. About
half were first time events for us and most of those I won't do again - but
how do you know unless you try, Right?
Things I learned this year -
1. The more they charge for parking and to get into the gate - the less we
make. In fact I have just about decided not to go to any that charge
admission at the gate. One was a blues fest that we discovered (after we
got there) had a $15 gate fee, cost us $50 to get in, $5 for a soda or
water, $10 bucks for a burger and we sold one coffee cup. Operator was
shocked that I did not want to do his show again. Said he made a bundle -
That I believed.
2. The mixed media shows are fun but not profitable. Hot Rods and Art seems
like a good mix but gear heads don't care for things that are not chromed
and Art lovers don't care for loud cars. This is a big exaggeration but
nobody did very good with art or crafts with that crowd. Several said that
their spouse might have enjoyed our stuff but they would rather buy spark
plugs. We covered our expenses and I enjoyed the show but most likely will
not do it again.
3. Big botanical garden/art show. Good advertising and got a nice write up
in the paper that sent new clients to my gallery but sales that weekend were
very sorry - covered expenses, barely. A newspaper article is golden so it
was good to be there.
4. Discovered the master gardeners!!! Did their annual convention, big
surprises there. Was informed the morning of the show that they were
expecting their biggest crowd in years - I was so excited - then they said
they thought there might be as many as 300 in attendance. Crap! I almost
turned around and left but I had already paid the $125 fee, drove for two
hours, etc. I did not even get unpacked before the carnage began. In two
hours I was calling my wife telling her what to pack to bring to me. WOW!
Just when you think you start to figure thing out the rules change. I
learned a lot that weekend - humble pie anyone?
5. A regional scenic drive was a challenge as it spanned two weekends. I
rented a space inside a building since the weather is typically poor (cold
and wet) for this event. First weekend was 90 degrees and sunny, second
week more moderate, mid 70's and sunny. On one side was the typical country
craft painted doodads, on the other were goats milk hand creams. Most of
the 70 mile drive was like that with an artist here and there. Did OK, did
not set records but was pretty fair sales, mostly cheap stuff. When we got
home the phone started ringing and over the next few weeks we tripled what
we sold at the show, filled my wheel class with tuition paying students who
bought tools, clay more pots and have signed up for more classes. I'll go
back next year.
6. Discovered that I did need a pile cheap items just in case it is that
sort of event. Small spice bowls that I throw 40-50 a hour off the hump can
be sold for $4 each and still make a couple bucks each. Piled in a basket
on the ground, in front of the booth, sucker bait. They pick out a few
cheap bowls and then find a cup that matches or a teapot which is not cheap.
A few times this year these little bowls paid the space rent.
7. Was shocked to find part way through the year that my work seemed stale,
that it did not excite me as much - some of my best customers who are also
good friends and knowledgeable about what we do told me that I was looking
tired and it seemed my work was too. They were right. The forms were
technically ok and the glazes were the same but they lacked energy, life.
The good thing was that it was not so bad that it was not in demand - the
edge just seemed to be missing. I took a couple weeks off and visited other
potters, galleries, relaxed a bit and went back to work with a different
frame of mind. When I returned I found that the pots were not really as bad
as I thought they were - it was me that was just in a poor frame of mind.
"Get your head on right boy!!" as my father would have put it.
Part of this funk was just exhaustion from doing show after show after show
- as many as 4 in one month. I will not do that this year. As I was doing
a show my wife kept the store open so neither one of us got any down time.
When I got home from the show it was straight back to the wheel or kiln to
get stuff ready for the next show. Lots of work and little play - not this
year. We made good money this year and will be ending with a nice profit -
not enough for a employee to run the store but enough for a vacation and
NCECA, perhaps a new salt kiln........
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
Maurice Weitman on wed 26 dec 07
Hello, Dan and Laurel,
At 14:15 -0600 on 12/25/07, Pfeiffer Fire Arts wrote:
>We do about 10x our fees at the few (4) shows we go to. [...] We would not
>do a show with a fee over about $150 as we know we will not likely to sell
>over $1500.
If you're saying that your test is selling more than 10x the entry
fee, I would offer another take on it.
First of all, I think you should be looking at your total costs of
doing a show, not just the entry fee.
But more importantly, shouldn't you care more how many dollars you
earn over your costs rather than the percentage?
Would you do a show whose entry fee was $1 if you would sell one mug for $15?
And would you really avoid a show that costs $500 if you could "only"
sell $4,000?
Regards,
Maurice, in Palm Springs on our way to Tucson (via Tempe and the
David Shaner show) for a week with our cousins. Just tryin' to stay
worm is all.
Tom at Hutchtel.net on wed 26 dec 07
Subject: Re: An observation on shows
> Hello, Dan and Laurel,
>>Pfeiffer Fire Arts wrote:
>>We do about 10x our fees at the few (4) shows we go to. [...] We would not
>>do a show with a fee over about $150 as we know we will not likely to sell
>>over $1500.
>
> If you're saying that your test is selling more than 10x the entry
> fee, I would offer another take on it.
>
> First of all, I think you should be looking at your total costs of
> doing a show, not just the entry fee.
Maurice..
You raise excellent points in your post. It is 'total cost' that one must
look at...and not just entry fees, travel costs, but cost of the items you
are selling, lost time in the studio, mental (as well as physical) wear and
tear....
Not to become depressing, but 'doing shows' is one of the hardest ways of
earning a living at pots. It IS a good way to build your list and get one
on one feedback from customers...and not just those who shop your booth, but
those who pass you by.
The first full year of doing shows, we did 26, then 17, then 11, finally 8.
Most all shows were in the Minneapolis/St. Paul markets and Chicago. But we
found by doing so many shows, we were cutting so deeply into production that
we often went with an 'empty' booth. Also, making ourselves too accessible
in a market meant the customers didn't have to go out of their way to get
us. "Well, we'll pick them up at blah-blah in 3 weeks" It almost makes the
pots less valuable. As we cut shows, our sales actually increased.
Strategically, our approach to picking shows was to match our perceived
demographic to the neighborhood of the show. Then, each year we'd cut the
bottom 25% (in sales) and try to add one or two better shows at the top. We
know from experience that 35-50% of sales, sometimes more, came from
mailings.
A few more thoughts,
Happy new year!
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
KATHI LESUEUR on thu 27 dec 07
On Dec 27, 2007, at 11:04 AM, Pfeiffer Fire Arts wrote:
> We really do look at the net profit and how much work a show is but
> I like
> the idea of % of entry fee as a gage as to how good the show was. Our
> cheapest show, $60 is the closest so our costs are as low as it
> gets. Our
> best show we made ~$1000 but cost us hotel and gas and food so
> overall it is
> not as good a show for profit but still worth our time to go.
>
> AT a $500 show we have a good chance of not doing much better than
> our best
> show and there is a good possibility we would be outclassed by all
> the other
> work there and may not sell $500 worth of pots. So far we see very
> little
> collation between entry price and what we make in all but the worst
> shows.
> In general I would say the higher the entry fee the less profit we
> make,
> both because they then to be too far to not want a hotel and we do
> not see
> any more customers as the price goes up.>>>
When I see the numbers people are quoting here on the list as doing
"OK" at a show, I want to scream, "people wake up, you are not making
any money". If you aren't making a living at it, have a full-time job
or a spouse to support you, maybe this "extra" income is ok. But, if
you want to make a living these numbers are totally unacceptable. My
best show this year I sold $12,000. Not one of them was under $3000.
And, this is with shows being down. If you want to support yourself
at this, these are the kind of numbers you need to be looking for.
Otherwise, just keep your day job. I know potter who try to do twenty
or more shows a year making just $1000 or a little more at each show.
They are running themselves ragged. Their work is getting stale
because they have no time to be creative. They are fast wearing out
and will soon have health problems. Doing shows is not the life for
them. $1000 a show is a sign of success.
Kathi
>
>
Kathy McDonald on thu 27 dec 07
I found this thread quite interesting because I had been
out of the business of doing shows for 3 out of 4 of the
last years
due to health reasons.
As my production picks up I've ventured back into that
market a bit
but have had to hire someone to do the selling. Revenue from
the bigger shows
is way down. I think people are now going to those to
"look". It's become
a form of entertainment around here. People go shopping at
the big box stores
drop their $ and stop into the craft fairs as an
afterthought just to "look" around.
Customers tell me they think the quality of shows is
deteriorating because organizers
have let their standards down and are allowing "kits" and
other forms of goods that
are not artisan or handmade. Seems the only people really
making money from the shows are the organizers. Average fees
for a one day sale around here are 75-100 dollars.
This might sound arrogant but it's not worth my while to pay
a booth attendant, and set up a decent display unless I make
8 to 10X the fee.
What has been much more profitable are sales that are like
the "home parties" , someone "host" them , invites people
and provides food . Seems to generate enough interest to
have someone
offer to host another. I know it sounds like a Tupperware
sale
but believe me it works to sell. It's more fun , more
intimate and those who come
usually attend to buy.
It also leads to other bookings and a new customer base
to invite to my annual open house in the fall.
Kathy
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Lee Love on thu 27 dec 07
Our main reason for doing the Mashiko pottery festival was a
way for us to get together with our customers a couple times a year
but also as a way to see potter friends who are all "busy" the rest of
the year. If you don't come to Japan as a "Type A", Japan turns you
into one. ;^)
Jean did last fall alone, probably our last one for a
while. We sold woodblock prints at an equal pace as pottery.
I will be in Minneapolis during the spring festival doing my
McKnight residency at Northern Clay Center.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Pfeiffer Fire Arts on thu 27 dec 07
We really do look at the net profit and how much work a show is but I like
the idea of % of entry fee as a gage as to how good the show was. Our
cheapest show, $60 is the closest so our costs are as low as it gets. Our
best show we made ~$1000 but cost us hotel and gas and food so overall it is
not as good a show for profit but still worth our time to go.
AT a $500 show we have a good chance of not doing much better than our best
show and there is a good possibility we would be outclassed by all the other
work there and may not sell $500 worth of pots. So far we see very little
collation between entry price and what we make in all but the worst shows.
In general I would say the higher the entry fee the less profit we make,
both because they then to be too far to not want a hotel and we do not see
any more customers as the price goes up.
I could see this may not be the case is a few shows that say they have
300,000 come by in a week show in a tourist area but the cost of a hotel in
the same area could make this a very bad deal.
One problem we have is I am not sure we have $4000 worth of pots to sell in
one show. We only do 4 shows because that is about all we can make in a
year. Laurel is now free to work full time next year so we may get to more
shows and maybe be able to improve to the point that a $250 show would be
worth trying but maybe not, always a crapshoot as to how a new show will go.
One big factor that I do not hear much about is the amount of pain a given
show has. We did very well in Smithville Tn. on our very first show. It is
setup on asphalt over the 4 July weekend. We did very well making > $700 but
would never go back. The heat must have been >100 and very high humidity and
very long hours. Now we look a lot at were a show it placed, grass and
trees a big plus. How far do we need to carry our ware to the booth makes a
big different in how fast we can setup and tear down. All this is factored
into what we think makes for a good show.
We do hope to do a local show at our house at some point and I think this is
the best option if we can get people to come. I have talked to a number of
craftsman we see at shows that live close that think it a good thing so
maybe it will happen. That and 6 acres and no zoning should help.
The nearest show that is run by "artists" is one of the most expense and the
one year we looked at it there was a lot of junk mixed in with a few good
potters. They picked a very expense indoor site and ran the entry price way
up.
Dan & Laurel.
steve graber on thu 27 dec 07
some time ago i realized i was trying to set up and do shows at a venue i would not stop at as a customer. so i basically could never even sell to my clone-self.
so where do YOU buy work?
i seem to work off my netowrk of friends to buy what i want, so that matches your own method.
~ which means that is the way to sell your work to people like you
see ya
Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
Claremont, California USA
The Steve Tool - for awesum texture on pots!
www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Kathy McDonald
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:20:39 AM
Subject: Re: An observation on shows
I found this thread quite interesting because I had been
out of the business of doing shows for 3 out of 4 of the
last years
due to health reasons.
As my production picks up I've ventured back into that
market a bit
but have had to hire someone to do the selling. Revenue from
the bigger shows
is way down. I think people are now going to those to
"look". It's become
a form of entertainment around here. People go shopping at
the big box stores
drop their $ and stop into the craft fairs as an
afterthought just to "look" around.
Customers tell me they think the quality of shows is
deteriorating because organizers
have let their standards down and are allowing "kits" and
other forms of goods that
are not artisan or handmade. Seems the only people really
making money from the shows are the organizers. Average fees
for a one day sale around here are 75-100 dollars.
This might sound arrogant but it's not worth my while to pay
a booth attendant, and set up a decent display unless I make
8 to 10X the fee.
What has been much more profitable are sales that are like
the "home parties" , someone "host" them , invites people
and provides food . Seems to generate enough interest to
have someone
offer to host another. I know it sounds like a Tupperware
sale
but believe me it works to sell. It's more fun , more
intimate and those who come
usually attend to buy.
It also leads to other bookings and a new customer base
to invite to my annual open house in the fall.
Kathy
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12/16/2007 12:00 AM
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
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Susan Fox Hirschmann on thu 27 dec 07
In a message dated 12/27/2007 8:30:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
potter@WESTMAN.WAVE.CA writes:
What has been much more profitable are sales that are like
the "home parties" , someone "host" them , invites people
and provides food . Seems to generate enough interest to
have someone
offer to host another. I know it sounds like a Tupperware
sale
but believe me it works to sell. It's more fun , more
intimate and those who come
usually attend to buy.
YEP! on that front! but I call it a "Studio Show" and have it twice a year.
I do a mailing to my own customers, thanks to the reasonable rates and great
printing of Modern Postcard in Carlsbad, CA. The best times: early Dec, and
before Mother's day. I would do it more often but I do not want to dampen the
enthusiasm of my customers when it is just a twice yearly EVENT!
And yes, they do come & buy and bring friends, that bring friends. I do
offer 10% discount to the people in my neighborhood all the time: This has
generated sales year round for me. Neighbors will come over for gifts now, rather
than shopping at the mall. They know they can get an original piece from me and
are really tickled with the little bit of discount. It works for me too!
When they are here, I make an effort to promote my growing teaching venue, as
well as custom orders. I make sure that they know that I studied interior
design and can design and create pieces for their homes or offices. As a result,
I have an almost constant amount of custom work, inbetween people coming by
my teaching, and wholesalecrafts.com.
I would say, at my studio shows, about 8 out of 10 people do buy from me.
That, I think, is a REALLY great average.
After 27 yrs. of doing craft fairs and watching the market change and
deteriorate .....staying here in my studio and promoting myself here (suburban DC and
Baltimore) just works for me!
Best of luck to all you eager marketers out there!
The shows.....well....it is a TOUGH Crowd out there at those craft/art shows!
Susan
Annandale, VA
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Pfeiffer Fire Arts on fri 28 dec 07
I agree we do not make much but I consider us to be students selling student
work. The hope is to grow into better work and higher prices but you can't
start there. This is the first year we did a $1000 in a show and this makes
me thinks there is hope we can at some point make a real profit and have a
full-time job but we are not there yet. There is the problem of marketing
better work but I think I could do this when the time comes. I hope to do
few shows in any case and more shops as this look to be a more long term
answer to growing our sells.
I think you can see in the posts on this topic the whole range of marketing
problems from those who make a very few pieces to the pro's like yourself
who are making a living at it. A great diversity of talent and type of ware
all of which can be seen in most craft shows. As bottom feeders we can
always make a few dollars at the show and be happy and may not ever get into
the top tier shows. Not sure I would if we could, I like home sells better
and think of shows as advertising that pays and the higher up you go the
more competition there is and there is only one within 100 mile of us. This
would do little to help shop sells.
Dan & Laurel.
>>> Kathi wrote : When I see the numbers people are quoting here on the list
as doing
"OK" at a show, I want to scream, "people wake up, you are not making
any money". If you aren't making a living at it, have a full-time job
or a spouse to support you, maybe this "extra" income is ok. But, if
you want to make a living these numbers are totally unacceptable. >>>>>
Maggie Jones on fri 28 dec 07
Kathi, naturally, I want to ask: what shows are you making these kind of
sales at?
Maggie
http://TurtleIslandPottery.com
Maggie and Freeman Jones
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 22:18:10 -0500 KATHI LESUEUR
writes:
> When I see the numbers people are quoting here on the list as doing
> "OK" at a show, I want to scream, "people wake up, you are not
> making
> any money". If you aren't making a living at it, have a full-time
> job
> or a spouse to support you, maybe this "extra" income is ok. But,
> if
> you want to make a living these numbers are totally unacceptable.
> My
> best show this year I sold $12,000. Not one of them was under
> $3000.
> And, this is with shows being down. If you want to support yourself
> at this, these are the kind of numbers you need to be looking for.
> Otherwise, just keep your day job. I know potter who try to do
> twenty
> or more shows a year making just $1000 or a little more at each
> show.
> They are running themselves ragged. Their work is getting stale
> because they have no time to be creative. They are fast wearing out
> and will soon have health problems. Doing shows is not the life
> for
> them. $1000 a show is a sign of success.
>
> Kathi
> >
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
Tom at Hutchtel.net on fri 28 dec 07
Right on, Kathi,
I remember 'way back when' we thought $2500 or $3000 was a 'big shew'. We
now consider that a starting point. Under that we figure we're seriously
losing money. If a show can't do us, without mailing list ( eg a new
market), $3000. we won't go back. Granted it takes several years to build
most shows to that 5 figure level, we've been able to do it repeatedly,
mostly thorough the use of mailing lists....as well as paying attention to
all the other details. No we do not sell 'Art'...we sell functional pots
for everyday use. You can go to our blog and scroll back a bit to see a
couple of reflections on shows this year. www.claycoyote.com/blog .
Posts like this and Kathi's are not trying to say 'do it my way'. Rather
we're trying to say, do it the right way. Know what your numbers
are...especially if your dream is to make at least a portion of your income
from your passion of pottery. Get the knowledge you need to figure these
things out.
Biggest problem I see, is that doing shows, the income is usually divorced
from the cost. You pay the jury and booth fees ahead, probably pay for the
hotel ahead, if you're traveling. Food is probably put on a credit card,
and the cost of making and firing is long gone. So that $1500 looks
immense.
One point that hasn't been brought up in this discussion, how much work
should you take to a show? It's been hashed over before. We figure on
twice the amount we expect to take home. A $10,000 show takes close to
$20,000 of inventory.
We take our general price break categories, for example $15 - 35, $36 -
55, $56 - 75, $76 to 100, $100 and up. So we've 5 categories. Divide that
into expected sales $10,000 dib by 5 = $2000. Now divide that $2000 by the
average in each of the categories. $2000 div by $25 = 80 pieces in the $15
to 35 category. We do some adjustment depending on the market....if it's
upscale, we'll put in some more platters and big bowls and such. Typical
show for us takes some 500 to 600 pieces (note we almost always do a double
booth....it more than doubles sales.)
All this is, again, not to brag, but to try to show the mental approach to
pots. If a show is only doing $1500, look at why. Not enough inventory?,
Wrong style or pieces for the show/customers? Bad show...poorly run and
advertised? And on and on.
Well, hips fixed, back to work.
Tom Wirt
Hutchinson, MN
twirt@hutchtel.net
www.claycoyote.com
>
> When I see the numbers people are quoting here on the list as doing
> "OK" at a show, I want to scream, "people wake up, you are not making
> any money". If you aren't making a living at it, have a full-time job
> or a spouse to support you, maybe this "extra" income is ok. But, if
> you want to make a living these numbers are totally unacceptable. My
> best show this year I sold $12,000. Not one of them was under $3000.
> And, this is with shows being down. If you want to support yourself
> at this, these are the kind of numbers you need to be looking for.
> Otherwise, just keep your day job. I know potter who try to do twenty
> or more shows a year making just $1000 or a little more at each show.
> They are running themselves ragged. Their work is getting stale
> because they have no time to be creative. They are fast wearing out
> and will soon have health problems. Doing shows is not the life for
> them. $1000 a show is a sign of success.
>
KATHI LESUEUR on fri 28 dec 07
On Dec 28, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Maggie Jones wrote:
> Kathi, naturally, I want to ask: what shows are you making these
> kind of
> sales at?
> Maggie
>
Paradise City, Northampton and Marlborough; Mount Mary, Wisconsin;
Nashville; Ann Arbor until I got fed up with the structure of the
show, to name a few. I go to a show with enough stock to do at least
$10,000 even though I don't expect those sales. It allows me to not
run out of an item that turns out to be a hot seller. I have items
for as little as $5 and as much at $400. I pay attention to detail on
all of them. Lots of times my best repeat customers turn out to be
someone who came to the show to just wander around and ended up
buying a $5 business card holder. They sit at their desk everyday
and look at it. Then, they come back for a cup. Pretty soon it's
lamps, dinnerware, serving pieces. I have people at some shows who've
bought from me for ten or more years. To do that I have to constantly
be challenging myself to experiment with forms and glazes. Present
something new and fresh. I will tell you that I can throw very fast
and consistently so I can produce lots of pots in a short period of
time. I also have an extremely efficient (though small by most
standards) studio that allows me to waste a minimum of time moving
pots around and doing the other essential, but not creative, tasks.
Kathi
Dale Neese on fri 28 dec 07
Maggie,
It's not necessarily any one or two craft shows that someone is more likely
to sell $12,000 worth of pots. One pottery person may sell really well and
another person with their clay work may not make a dime. If you've not been
to a particular fair before chances are you will sit for a while until your
work is "recognized" by the public. It could be your first time at a show
and sell out. Several of the shows that I have to make each year I've
attended for 12-15 years. "I grow them." They are well run, well conceived
Art fairs that enjoy large turnouts of patrons anxious to purchase from
talented people they've known. There is this one fair that I do that a wood
carver sells out in less than 4 hours. People stand in line with several of
his bird carvings in their arms at $200, $300 each or more. He probably
safely makes $25,000 to $30,000 that day alone. He used to sell them over
the fence before the show opened but they stopped him from doing that. Never
goes to another fair all year. A years work sold in one day. It's amazing.
I've seen it happen most every year. That fair for me has always been a top
selling fair too. My sales have nearly always been over $3000-$4000 for two
days. I've got familiar faces I see at that fair every year that purchase my
pottery. Another 2 shows this fall I've had $5000 in sales in each of them.
I've been so fortunate to have developed my customer base with reminders,
postcards, emails. And most of all great pots that keep them coming back.
Since I've taught classes and workshops I get students who come to purchase
my work. People watch me demo on the wheel and come to my booth. I grow
those fairs. I don't need to find new ones because I can't produce enough
high quality work for the 4-5 shows I do a year. One biggie is my "studio
sale". I travel back to my old hometown for a one day, one person sale.
People know I am there only one day in November and when they come they buy
big time. I enjoy the fortune of having people stand in line waiting to pay.
I travel home with an empty truck. Now I am busting my butt throwing for
another fair I am growing in February. Each year it gets better, better
advertising, word of mouth, great gallery clay shows in the town. Those
promoters do a heck of a job getting the patrons in the door. It's an indoor
event and the weather has no effect on attendance. If I were to make one of
these so called "super fairs" for the first time with booth fees in the $450
or more range I'd probably lose my shirt. Those shows are no guarantee that
you will sell well just because you get accepted.
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
San Antonio, Texas USA
www.daleneese.com
Jennifer Boyer on fri 28 dec 07
After about 30 years of doing 5-10 shows a year, I'm not doing any.
My basic business philosophy has always been that my production costs
should be covered by 50% of retail. If I sell at a gallery they take
on the promotion expense and pay for it with their 50% cut of my
sales. If I sell the pots myself, I pay for promotion and selling
costs with the 50% I get:
50% for promotion, 50% for production.
If I do a show I have to look at ALL my costs:
Show Fees
promotion
Bed and Board
set up and breakdown time at the show
hours spent manning my booth
prep and clean up time in the studio
studio time lost in recuperating from the hard work at the show
Some of these things would be the same if I sent the same pots to a
gallery: mainly packing up. If they go to a gallery I normally have
no unpacking time.
Promotion would be something I'd do anyway if I sold at my own studio
sale. But promotion and sales time are taken care of once my pots
arrive at a gallery.
I spent a couple of hours at a REALLY slow show adding up every
expense I had, related to that show. I figured out (6 years ago) that
I needed to sell $900 per day to equal the $$ I would make selling
those pots wholesale or consignment at galleries. So a 3 day show
would need to gross $2700. And that's to EQUAL the $$ I get from
galleries. To make a profit I have to make more. That's hard these
days with shows the way they are.
One caveat: I think when you are starting out you need to see how the
public reacts to your work. Shows are great for that and for getting
some cash flow going. BUT once you've been doing shows for awhile you
need to evaluate whether you are making a profit! There are a lot of
good galleries out there that make a huge effort to do good
promotion. It may seem a waste to give them 50% of your sales BUT you
are spending $$ when you market your own work.
I personally just burned out on being trapped at a booth for 3 days
straight. Couldn't do it any more......You have to keep good morale
to be a good seller...
Also my arthritic hands don't like the intensive work of prepping for
a show.
Hope this gives some perspective....
Jennifer
On Dec 27, 2007, at 10:18 PM, KATHI LESUEUR wrote:
> When I see the numbers people are quoting here on the list as doing
> "OK" at a show, I want to scream, "people wake up, you are not making
> any money".
*****************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
*****************************
gayle bair on sun 30 dec 07
Gayle Bair
Tucson AZ
Bainbridge Island WA
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
Yippee! Thank you Kathi!!!!
At last some one said it!
I have been grumbling about shows and my profits
for years and would be chastised by my friends for it.
You made in your best show what it took me all year to make.
My best show I made $$2600... (a 3 day local show).
I do stay local. The demographics in my area in WA are good...
lots of disposable $. Most of the local galleries treat artists poorly
so I steer clear of them but do have work in a shop that treats local
artist well.
Of all the potters I know in our area only a few do not seem to be
struggling. Even one who is well known admitted to me that he struggles
financially so he teaches, runs trips etc. I find this really sad....
unless of course they also love teaching and running trips.
What I'd love to see is some form of e-mentoring.
Of course that would take a willingness of time on the part of the
mentor
and a willingness to honestly look at his/her work on the part of the
mentee.
Last year I asked one of our Clayart gurus to critique a few of my
pieces and got a very honest in depth critque. It was fabulous!
It was spot on! Suddenly the flaws I was just not seeing were very
clear.
This pushed my work and development forward much faster than had I
just been bumbling along myself.
I think this would also be very helpful in all the other aspects of
being a
potter e.g. marketing, displays etc.
Gayle Bair
Tucson AZ
Bainbridge Island WA
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
Kathi Lesuer wrote:
On Dec 27, 2007, at 8:18 PM, KATHI LESUEUR wrote:
> When I see the numbers people are quoting here on the list as doing
> "OK" at a show, I want to scream, "people wake up, you are not making
> any money". If you aren't making a living at it, have a full-time job
> or a spouse to support you, maybe this "extra" income is ok. But, if
> you want to make a living these numbers are totally unacceptable. My
> best show this year I sold $12,000. Not one of them was under $3000.
> And, this is with shows being down. If you want to support yourself
> at this, these are the kind of numbers you need to be looking for.
> Otherwise, just keep your day job. I know potter who try to do twenty
> or more shows a year making just $1000 or a little more at each show.
> They are running themselves ragged. Their work is getting stale
> because they have no time to be creative. They are fast wearing out
> and will soon have health problems. Doing shows is not the life for
> them. $1000 a show is a sign of success.
>
> Kathi
>>
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