Carol Craiglow on mon 10 nov 97
Hi all...I'm wondering if some of you can share information regarding
insurance claims for stolen work. One of my public bronze sculptures was
stolen from the public art program here in Grand Junction Colorado about
a month ago. The price of the sculpture is (was) $3500. The City's
"Downtown Development Authority" is in charge of the program that has
about 35 public sculptures each year.
I should mention that sculpture in this program can be purchased in one
of two ways (1) the People's Choice Award in which the piece is purchased
outright by DDA with no commission, or (2) by private parties, in which
case the DDA takes a 30% commission.
I recently spoke with the head of the DDA and was told that the chairman
would be contacting me to "negotiate a settlement." I would expect that
I would be compensated for the value of the piece...wouldn't you? The
woman I spoke with said insurance companies do not always pay the price
of the work, but rather make their own analysis. This seems very odd to
me. I had a ceramic sculpture that was broken in an exhibition once, and
I was paid the asking price less the exhibiting facility's commission.
I would appreciate any help from people who've dealt with this issue.
TIA
Carol Craiglow
Marcia Selsor on tue 11 nov 97
Carol,
I had a piece broken in my back yard when my neighbors tree fell over. I
had to prove the market value of the piece, but simply explained
previous sales. It was pretty cut and dry. If you have sold this type of
work before at that price, there should be no problem.
Proven established market values does fall on you rather than the
insurance company.
Good luck,
Marcia in Montana
Dannon Rhudy on tue 11 nov 97
Insurance companies seldom pay the entire asking price if it is
over a certain amount, (whatever they decide that may be). You
can expect that they will deduct the largest possible percentage
for commission, plus whatever the facility's deductible is. Then,
they may make some offer- but you do not have to accept. The
problem really is between the exhibition/facility and their
insurance company, on the one hand; and you and the DDA on the
other. Look at your contract. What is their responsibility?
In no case are they likely to pay the full amount; expect at least
deduction for commission. And, they are unlikely to be in any
hurry. They will probably suggest that if sold through a
gallery, the commission would have been 50%, and want to
negotiate from there. You may be able to collect for the value of
the piece less commission if you are: persistent, patient, and
immune to bullying.
----------------------------Original
message----------------------------
Hi all...I'm wondering if some of you can share information
regarding
insurance claims for stolen work. One of my public bronze
sculptures was
stolen from the public art program here in Grand Junction Colorado
about
a month ago. The price of the sculpture is (was) $3500. The
City's
"Downtown Development Authority" is in charge of the program that
has
about 35 public sculptures each year.
I should mention that sculpture in this program can be purchased
in one
of two ways (1) the People's Choice Award in which the piece is
purchased
outright by DDA with no commission, or (2) by private parties, in
which
case the DDA takes a 30% commission.
I recently spoke with the head of the DDA and was told that the
chairman
would be contacting me to "negotiate a settlement." I would
expect that
I would be compensated for the value of the piece...wouldn't you?
The
woman I spoke with said insurance companies do not always pay the
price
of the work, but rather make their own analysis. This seems very
odd to
me. I had a ceramic sculpture that was broken in an exhibition
once, and
I was paid the asking price less the exhibiting facility's
commission.
I would appreciate any help from people who've dealt with this
issue.
TIA
Carol Craiglow
Cheryl L Litman on tue 11 nov 97
Someone I knew had almost all his work vandalized at a show in his studio
and his insurance company valued the work at cost of materials and
refused to compensate him for his time or retail selling price. That was
his personal insurance company.
Cheryl Litman
Somerset, NJ
email: cheryllitman@juno.com
On Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:57:34 EST Carol Craiglow writes:
>----------------------------Original
>message----------------------------
>Hi all...I'm wondering if some of you can share information regarding
>insurance claims for stolen work. One of my public bronze sculptures
>was
>stolen from the public art program here in Grand Junction Colorado
>about
>a month ago. The price of the sculpture is (was) $3500. The City's
>"Downtown Development Authority" is in charge of the program that has
>about 35 public sculptures each year.
>
>I should mention that sculpture in this program can be purchased in
>one
>of two ways (1) the People's Choice Award in which the piece is
>purchased
>outright by DDA with no commission, or (2) by private parties, in
>which
>case the DDA takes a 30% commission.
>
>I recently spoke with the head of the DDA and was told that the
>chairman
>would be contacting me to "negotiate a settlement." I would expect
>that
>I would be compensated for the value of the piece...wouldn't you? The
>woman I spoke with said insurance companies do not always pay the
>price
>of the work, but rather make their own analysis. This seems very odd
>to
>me. I had a ceramic sculpture that was broken in an exhibition once,
>and
>I was paid the asking price less the exhibiting facility's commission.
>
>I would appreciate any help from people who've dealt with this issue.
>TIA
>
>Carol Craiglow
>
Darrol Shillingburg on thu 13 nov 97
----------------- On Monday, November 10, 1997 6:57 AM carol Craiglow
wrote:-----
> ----------------------------Original message----------------------------
> -------------snip-----------
>One of my public bronze sculptures was
> stolen from the public art program here in Grand Junction Colorado about
> a month ago. The price of the sculpture is (was) $3500.
> I should mention that sculpture in this program can be purchased in one
> of two ways (1) the People's Choice Award in which the piece is purchased
> outright by DDA with no commission, or (2) by private parties, in which
> case the DDA takes a 30% commission.
Hi Carol,
Sorry to hear about the theft, there is so much more value to what we make
with our hands and spirits than the $ value, but it is so intangible to
others that it is not considered part of the value.
Is the $3500 price of the sculpture wholesale or retail? I couldn't tell
from your post. In my experience with juried shows and competitions the
price or value( if NFS) quoted by the artist, and quoted to the public is
the retail price. Take your wholesale price, add their commission what ever
that may be.
> I recently spoke with the head of the DDA and was told that the chairman
> would be contacting me to "negotiate a settlement." I would expect that
> I would be compensated for the value of the piece...wouldn't you? The
> woman I spoke with said insurance companies do not always pay the price
> of the work, but rather make their own analysis. This seems very odd to
> me.
The answer is never straight forward ( eventhough I think it should be),
but the hassel and negotation can be minimalized by how you conduct
business. Makes a good case for establishing a wholesale price schedule
based on unit pricing, either weight or cubic volume. I find it easier for
paintings (wholesale price is square inches X dollar figure) than for
ceramic vessels and sculptures, but I consistently equate size/weight with
wholesale price. It gives me a price based on a tangible measurement and as
pieces are sold based on those wholesale prices it establishes a consistant
market based value that is difficult to tinker with by somebody "making
their own analysis". There seems to be considerable "creative evaluation"
in the art world that may or may not work to the artist's favor.
>I had a ceramic sculpture that was broken in an exhibition once, and
> I was paid the asking price less the exhibiting facility's commission.
You were paid your wholesale price, as it should be. The wholesale price is
the only tangible $ value a piece has until it is sold. The more clearly
that is establish the less negotating you'll have to do.
Good luck with your settlement. Hold out for your wholesale value unless
the insurance company's "analysis" is greater than yours.
Darrol in Elephant Butte, NM
DarrolS@Zianet.com
On the web at http://www.zianet.com/DarrolS
Arial MT on thu 13 nov 97
When buying insurance coverage read the coverage provisions and ask questions
of your agent.If you have a good agent and a theft is an unusual event and
the proper handling of the incident and proper care and diligence in
protection the object and police forms were filed in a timely manner you
should get the coverage your policy insures you against.However if you feel
you are being taken advantage of unfairly it would be in order to inquire
with the state insurance commissioner about the practices of your insurance
carrier.Having recurring claims , now, will erode one's credibility so be
aware that it is assumed that all is being done to curtail the problems or
getting coverage will be very difficult. It is important when finding an
insurer to check their claims history and call the commissioners office for
references like you'd call a better business bureau for other product
complaints that would be on file.Knowing your agent is useful too and i am
told your premiums in person isn't a bad idea and chatting when changes are
needed so you will know them if there is ever a need to make a
claim.Customer relations is a two way street as we know even oin our
business of pottery too.There are good agents and good companies and there
are bad= the same as in all fields.In surance is a pooled risk affair and if
you do not make yourself appear as though you are out to take them they
should treat you fairly.High deductibles (as much as you can stand ) will
make coverage far more affordable as well as preserve your integrity with
them better, anyhow, ,,because it would be the frequency of claims that
would catch some suspicious underwriters attention and question your risk
status.When an issue comes up as you are discussing you need a history of
previous sales at that price level and some statements as to the stated value
by the parties involved as well as any publicity articles and supporting info
and photos(My daughter was an agent for State Farm.)
Margaret
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