mel jacobson on sat 22 dec 07
i think you missed the most important part of my
post.
i do not give professionals advice.
you are obviously a professional...you get in the
best shows. you have figured it out. good for you.
for the average potter reading clayart, that is not the case.
many have no idea what to do.
my advice has always been:
take care of your own customers, seek a starting
point that does not break your bank.
and, my experience goes far beyond st. paul.
mel
from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Craig Rhodes on sun 23 dec 07
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:27:00 -0600, mel jacobson wrote:
>i think you missed the most important part of my
>post.
>
>i do not give professionals advice.
>you are obviously a professional...you get in the
>best shows. you have figured it out. good for you.
>
>for the average potter reading clayart, that is not the case.
>many have no idea what to do.
>my advice has always been:
>take care of your own customers, seek a starting
>point that does not break your bank.
>
>and, my experience goes far beyond st. paul.
>mel
>
>from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
>website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
>
>Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
It's ironic that I just had this conversation last night with a former
student who's home for Christmas and who's now in grad school. He just
recently graduated from Vince's program at the Appalachian School of Crafts.
If I had seen Mel's post on this I would have saved myself the trouble and
directed the student to Mel's wisdom here. Moreover, based on my
experience, Mel was right that Paul's rebuttal missed the point.
On my part, I'm somewhat reluctant to categorize what I do as "art" or
"production". That's not for us to say but should be left to the culture
at large in the future. For all we know, a George Ohr could be working as a
production potter somewhere in the woods right now in obscurity and selling
nothing. The same could have been said of Van Gogh. While I strive to be
an artist I would feel arrogant to arbitrarily make the claim. Besides, it
misses the point.
The track Mel described as a potter in his previous post on this subject,
describes my journey to a T. I successfully taught H.S. art for 34 years
before retiring and make no apologies for it. During the same period, I've
also continued to work in clay even if it meant working in the dead of
winter in a studio with no heat. I would buy a piece of equipment a
year...a pugmill here...an extruder there, with the intention of finally
having a fully equipped studio upon retirement. That dream has been
realized as described earlier by Mel.
During this same period, I learned what I could about my craft from every
possible source including ceramic "artists" who showed at "top tier" shows
including ACC. While most were generous, I found that many were in dire
need of a psycho-proctologist. Condescension was their trademark.
One, whose work was in all the books, who exhibited at all the top tier
shows and whom I considered a friend, once asked me while buying a set of
mugs from me, "Why I chose to prostitute myself by making mugs instead of
art?" He now sells real estate and I'm still making mugs, among other things.
Another artist from the same mold once asked me why I wasted my time
teaching when I could be making pots full time. He had been a failure as a
teacher but rather than admit failure, he chose to denigrate the profession.
I told him that I had a family with all the attendant obligations of
mortgage, insurance etc. and had chosen to take the long term path to
pottery. He said that I should do what he did and abandon family, who could
then get welfare. I continued to make pots while teaching and going on to
obtaining an advanced ceramics degree while he now works in interior design.
BTW my teaching never suffered anymore than my clay work suffered as a
result of my choices. Both informed the other. I'm sure Vince will attest
to the quality of students I turned out.
And regarding the "top tier" shows mentioned in the rebuttal, they are not
what they used to be according to friends of mine who have participated in
them. They have become less about the artists and more about making money
for the sponsoring organizations. The proof for this is that there seems to
be no limit on the number of exhibitors to the effect that each year a
limited number of dollars have to be shared by larger numbers of artists
resulting in decreasing profits for each artist.
I don't do shows anymore whether "top tier", "second tier" or otherwise for
the reasons Mel gave. I've developed my own marketing plan that works well
for me and as such am having trouble keeping up with demand. Part of the
reason for the demand is that I have 34 years worth of former students who
are now buyers of my work. Something I had not anticipated at the time.
To wit, Mel's original post in this thread is one of the most succinct,
nail-on-the-head statements I've ever read on the subject based on my 40
years of experience working in clay. It is worthy of consideration and
passing on to others.
Craig Rhodes
http://www.jcrhodes.com/
steve graber on sun 23 dec 07
to work in clay is a great thing. to be able to work in clay & cover your bills, even better. for me i use the day-job as a sponsor and will one day work in clay full time. till then, i make what i like, sell what i like. and figure when the time comes i'll be able to focus on a sales outlet even if it means doing the show planning myself.
a friend told me a number of years ago to seek your own pasison and do not dilute it for another's idea of what you should do.
so, with my day job sponsor i make what i see fit and if it never goes beyond my house, that's fine. i'm not good enough to just do pots alone.
...meanwhile i have extreme respect for potters who can produce their work and cover their bills!
make more pots!
Steve Graber, Graber's Pottery, Inc
Claremont, California USA
The Steve Tool - for awesum texture on pots!
www.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.com
----- Original Message ----
From: Craig Rhodes
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 11:19:52 AM
Subject: Re: paul/art shows
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:27:00 -0600, mel jacobson wrote:
>i think you missed the most important part of my
>post.
>
>i do not give professionals advice.
>you are obviously a professional...you get in the
>best shows. you have figured it out. good for you.
>
>for the average potter reading clayart, that is not the case.
>many have no idea what to do.
>my advice has always been:
>take care of your own customers, seek a starting
>point that does not break your bank.
>
>and, my experience goes far beyond st. paul.
>mel
>
>from: mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
>website: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
>
>Clayart page link: http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
It's ironic that I just had this conversation last night with a former
student who's home for Christmas and who's now in grad school. He just
recently graduated from Vince's program at the Appalachian School of Crafts.
If I had seen Mel's post on this I would have saved myself the trouble and
directed the student to Mel's wisdom here. Moreover, based on my
experience, Mel was right that Paul's rebuttal missed the point.
On my part, I'm somewhat reluctant to categorize what I do as "art" or
"production". That's not for us to say but should be left to the culture
at large in the future. For all we know, a George Ohr could be working as a
production potter somewhere in the woods right now in obscurity and selling
nothing. The same could have been said of Van Gogh. While I strive to be
an artist I would feel arrogant to arbitrarily make the claim. Besides, it
misses the point.
The track Mel described as a potter in his previous post on this subject,
describes my journey to a T. I successfully taught H.S. art for 34 years
before retiring and make no apologies for it. During the same period, I've
also continued to work in clay even if it meant working in the dead of
winter in a studio with no heat. I would buy a piece of equipment a
year...a pugmill here...an extruder there, with the intention of finally
having a fully equipped studio upon retirement. That dream has been
realized as described earlier by Mel.
During this same period, I learned what I could about my craft from every
possible source including ceramic "artists" who showed at "top tier" shows
including ACC. While most were generous, I found that many were in dire
need of a psycho-proctologist. Condescension was their trademark.
One, whose work was in all the books, who exhibited at all the top tier
shows and whom I considered a friend, once asked me while buying a set of
mugs from me, "Why I chose to prostitute myself by making mugs instead of
art?" He now sells real estate and I'm still making mugs, among other things.
Another artist from the same mold once asked me why I wasted my time
teaching when I could be making pots full time. He had been a failure as a
teacher but rather than admit failure, he chose to denigrate the profession.
I told him that I had a family with all the attendant obligations of
mortgage, insurance etc. and had chosen to take the long term path to
pottery. He said that I should do what he did and abandon family, who could
then get welfare. I continued to make pots while teaching and going on to
obtaining an advanced ceramics degree while he now works in interior design.
BTW my teaching never suffered anymore than my clay work suffered as a
result of my choices. Both informed the other. I'm sure Vince will attest
to the quality of students I turned out.
And regarding the "top tier" shows mentioned in the rebuttal, they are not
what they used to be according to friends of mine who have participated in
them. They have become less about the artists and more about making money
for the sponsoring organizations. The proof for this is that there seems to
be no limit on the number of exhibitors to the effect that each year a
limited number of dollars have to be shared by larger numbers of artists
resulting in decreasing profits for each artist.
I don't do shows anymore whether "top tier", "second tier" or otherwise for
the reasons Mel gave. I've developed my own marketing plan that works well
for me and as such am having trouble keeping up with demand. Part of the
reason for the demand is that I have 34 years worth of former students who
are now buyers of my work. Something I had not anticipated at the time.
To wit, Mel's original post in this thread is one of the most succinct,
nail-on-the-head statements I've ever read on the subject based on my 40
years of experience working in clay. It is worthy of consideration and
passing on to others.
Craig Rhodes
http://www.jcrhodes.com/
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
____________________________________________________________________________________
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Lee on mon 24 dec 07
With my Sensei's passing, I have been thinking a lot about
the meaning of work and life. I have been blessed to know many
different people trying to make their way in clay. Every person is
able to do their craft in a different way. We are lucky to have such
a diverse craft.
What it all comes down to, is the fruits of the labor
itself and how it has shaped the life that worked it. Everything
else is just "between the lines."
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
George Dymesich on mon 24 dec 07
Lee, Thank you. George
On Dec 24, 2007, at 3:11 AM, Lee wrote:
> With my Sensei's passing, I have been thinking a lot about
> the meaning of work and life. I have been blessed to know many
> different people trying to make their way in clay. Every person is
> able to do their craft in a different way. We are lucky to have such
> a diverse craft.
>
> What it all comes down to, is the fruits of the labor
> itself and how it has shaped the life that worked it. Everything
> else is just "between the lines."
>
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
>
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> "Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
> tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
> --Sen No Rikyu
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
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