L. P. Skeen on fri 21 dec 07
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dale Neese=20
Dale said: I doubt that you want to believe that clay left in the =
mixing chamber will not dry out because it is "completely sealed". Just =
one time you don't use it while you are on a two week vacation you will =
find out if it's true or not.=20
To which I say: >>>>> I have a VPM20 and have left the clay in the =
pugmill, WITHOUT added water, for MONTHS, including the 100-degree days =
of this past summer, and the clay in the chamber DOES NOT dry out. =20
Then Dale said: It's a pugmill, not a mixer.=20
To which I say: >>>>>> AAAAAAAAAaaaanck, wrong answer. The VPM9 IS a =
mixer, same as the VPM 20. The only difference is the size of the =
mixing chamber and the corresponding smaller amount of clay the thing =
can process.
If Bob has a plaster slab, he can dry the reclaim to the proper =
consistency before adding to the hopper, thereby eliminating the need to =
add slip or dry materials, but if he needs to, he can do so. Usually, =
the addition of a cup of dry clay and a good dislodging poke with a =
wooden stick is all I need to fix the spinnies. Poke a stick into the =
mass, stir it around to make a hole in it, and put in some dry clay. =
Disrupting the smoothness of the mass makes it "catch" and mix properly.
Lisa in NC
where there are <50 calendars remaining....
http://www.living-tree.net/calendar.htm
www.livingtreestudios.etsy.com
Paul Haigh on fri 21 dec 07
I've seen lots of glowing recomendations for the VPM 20 and 30, but not much on the new 9. It looks slightly different, but claims the same capabilities on a smaller scale. I have no problem slaking old scrap, but the mixing/delumping etc. are great capabilities.
Anyone have a comment on the VPM9?
Bob Johnson on fri 21 dec 07
I have had my VPM9 for a couple of weeks, and it works well. I haven't used a pug mill before, so I can't compare. It does seem to leave a lot of clay in the mixing chamber after pugging. Does anyone know: Is this usual with other pug mills?
That aside, it is wonderful to be able to recycle scrap and to adjust the moisture in the clay, without all that cutting, wetting, and wedging. I've always felt that commercial clay was just a little too stiff for centering and throwing anything more than about 2 pounds.
One more thing: The Peter Pugger people say that their pug mills have a learning curve, and this is true. I did have a case of the "spins," although it was rather easily fixed. Love the de-airing feature. I can take it straight from the pug mill to the wheel without wedging---and there are no air bubbles!
Anybody have any pugging tips for this novice pugger?
Bob
in Southern Oregon
At 12/21/2007 01:18 PM, you wrote:
>I've seen lots of glowing recomendations for the VPM 20 and 30, but not much on the new 9. It looks slightly different, but claims the same capabilities on a smaller scale. I have no problem slaking old scrap, but the mixing/delumping etc. are great capabilities.
>
>Anyone have a comment on the VPM9?
Dale Neese on fri 21 dec 07
Bob,
Sure nice machine you have there. Reading the descriptions from the
manufacturer makes it sound it's a cure for any clay mixing ailment you
might encounter. I run the Bluebird Studio de-airing model pug myself.
Sure, you have a big mixing chamber on that pugger of yours and all the clay
will not come out. More clay has to be added to force it out. Some clay
always remains in the chamber. Comparison with the Bluebird that has a small
hopper and chamber, my Bluebird also will not empty completely. I doubt that
you want to believe that clay left in the mixing chamber will not dry out
because it is "completely sealed". Just one time you don't use it while you
are on a two week vacation you will find out if it's true or not. Peter
Puggers have a good reputation but I would still pour a little water in the
hopper before leaving town.
I recycle my reclaim clay in to my pugmill, but I process my reclaim into a
firm state before sending it through. "No Spin Zone". It would be magic if
you could empty a slip can directly into a pugmill and come out with ready
to wheel clay. It's a pugmill, not a mixer. Some of the other models of
Peter Pugger allow you to do this where it has a mixer before the pugger
therefore avoiding the "spins".
As I mentioned earlier my only 5 gallon slip bucket is processed with a
drill mixer into a homogenous state and put on a plaster slab covered with a
bed sheet to firm for days. Then I slice it like semi hard cheese and run it
through the pugmill. I don't have to add anything to the pugmill to soften
or stiffen the mixture. What comes out in a pug may be a little soft but I
like the clay to sit in a plastic bag for a while and age. Maybe a month or
more while I throw the half ton of store bought clay. If you believe you can
take clay from bone dry scrap add slip and have it come out the end of the
pugmill in a great plastic shape for throwing you don't know clay. Even with
this modern convenience of a de-airing pug mill I do not skip wedging
completely before throwing. It's not about the air bubbles.
Christmas Cheer to Everyone!
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
San Antonio, Texas USA
Bonnie Hellman on fri 21 dec 07
Hi Bob,
I can't speak directly about the VPM9, but I've had a VPM30 for a number of
years. I bought it when NCECA was in Denver, and this was the smallest one
Peter Pugger sold. I might have bought a smaller one had they been
available, but I love mine.
The VPM 30 seals completely when shut so I don't worry about the clay lining
left in the PP. That liner of clay is always there, and although it's not
difficult to remove it (if you were changing clays, for example), it takes
time. I've left the PP unused for months at a time and the clay does not dry
out, as long as the hopper is left closed, and the rubber cover that came
with the PP is left on the nozzle. It's a great design for part time
potters!
I don't worry about my clay being too dry, it's so easy to add moisture,
de-air again, and pug it out for immediate use. I don't worry about starting
projects I don't like. Recycling has never been easier! I'm much more
willing to experiment, take chances, try new things, and just "see what
happens" because I'm not dealing with a lot of time consuming manual
reclaim. I only use white ^6 clays in my studio, and all reclaim just gets
dumped in the PP either until it's full or until I add more clay to make it
full and ready to run.
I also have one of my claybodies in dry form, so if I ever make the clay too
wet, and don't want to wait for it to dry out, or it's too wet to pug, I can
add some dry clay.
There is definitely a learning curve, but not a hard one IMHO. Mostly the
things I learned related to the moisture of the clay in the PP, the idea
that paperclay is VERY sticky when wet and doesn't want to pug easily ,
and at higher altitude you get a lower pressure reading than at sea level.
Bonnie
Bonnie D. Hellman
Ouray, Colorado 81427
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Johnson"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: VPM9 pugmill
>I have had my VPM9 for a couple of weeks, and it works well. I haven't used
>a pug mill before, so I can't compare. It does seem to leave a lot of clay
>in the mixing chamber after pugging. Does anyone know: Is this usual with
>other pug mills?
>
> That aside, it is wonderful to be able to recycle scrap and to adjust the
> moisture in the clay, without all that cutting, wetting, and wedging. I've
> always felt that commercial clay was just a little too stiff for centering
> and throwing anything more than about 2 pounds.
>
> One more thing: The Peter Pugger people say that their pug mills have a
> learning curve, and this is true. I did have a case of the "spins,"
> although it was rather easily fixed. Love the de-airing feature. I can
> take it straight from the pug mill to the wheel without wedging---and
> there are no air bubbles!
>
> Anybody have any pugging tips for this novice pugger?
>
> Bob
> in Southern Oregon
>
>
>
> At 12/21/2007 01:18 PM, you wrote:
>>I've seen lots of glowing recomendations for the VPM 20 and 30, but not
>>much on the new 9. It looks slightly different, but claims the same
>>capabilities on a smaller scale. I have no problem slaking old scrap, but
>>the mixing/delumping etc. are great capabilities.
>>
>>Anyone have a comment on the VPM9?
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Maurice Weitman on sat 22 dec 07
Hi, Bob,
At 15:09 -0800 on 12/21/07, Bob Johnson wrote:
>[...] It does seem to leave a lot of clay in the mixing chamber
>after pugging. Does anyone know: Is this usual with other pug mills?
Any pug mill I've used leaves plenty of clay in it after you've
finished feeding it. Mills with shorter barrels (like the PPs)
should leave less. But I've never used one that ran itself clean.
>That aside, it is wonderful to be able to recycle scrap and to
>adjust the moisture in the clay, without all that cutting, wetting,
>and wedging. I've always felt that commercial clay was just a little
>too stiff for centering and throwing anything more than about 2
>pounds.
>
>One more thing: The Peter Pugger people say that their pug mills
>have a learning curve, and this is true. I did have a case of the
>"spins," although it was rather easily fixed. Love the de-airing
>feature. I can take it straight from the pug mill to the wheel
>without wedging---and there are no air bubbles!
>
>Anybody have any pugging tips for this novice pugger?
I think every/any pug mill and/or its operator will have a learning
curve... often long and steep at the outset.
I've run one of the larger PPs and think they make fine machines. I
haven't seen the 9, so I have no advice for that one.
Some clays may benefit from two or more runs through the mill.
Experiment. Try getting away with doing less and see what happens.
Blast up that curve.
Dale said:
>Even with this modern convenience of a de-airing pug mill I do not
>skip wedging
>completely before throwing. It's not about the air bubbles.
Hi, Dale,
What is it about, then? I don't mean the kind of bubble one would
pierce with a pin tool on the wheel, but there are oodles of tiny air
bubbles in any body unless it's been de-aired.
Are you saying that your pug mill doesn't make your clay homogenous
enough to throw as it comes out?
I've used a Bluebird 440 for a couple of years. Is that the one you
have? Once I fixed the vacuum pump, I never had any problem taking
clay to the wheel straight from the mill. I usually cone the clay up
and down a few times in the process of centering it, but that's all
I've ever needed to do.
Perhaps if it's been sitting around for a while, one or two wedgies
wouldn't hurt, but I found that by using the clay within a few hours
after it had been pugged, it was perfect.
My current mill is a 4" Venco which really cranks it out; maybe 3x or
4x the speed of the 440. But as long as it's pulling decent vacuum,
its output never touches the wedging table.
You also said to Bob:
> I doubt that you want to believe that clay left in the mixing
>chamber will not dry out
>because it is "completely sealed".
As I said, I'm not familiar with the new PP that Bob has, but the
larger ones do, indeed, hold their moisture for many weeks. I've
found that by putting a wet sponge in the hopper and vacuum chamber,
sealing all three openings with plastic bags, my mills also hold
their moisture just fine.
Regards,
Maurice
Dale Neese on sat 22 dec 07
Ah, there ya go, a first hand testimonial from Lisa, a VPM20 user as to the
validity of the manufacturer's claims of a worry free sealed "mixing
chamber". If you have the luxury of leaving your clay in the "mixing
chamber" for up to 2 months then perhaps you are getting questionable value
for your expenditure. I am a tich envious I'd admit, nice equipment you got
there!
When I think of a "clay mixer" I think of a Soldner Clay Mixer, or a clay
mixer like the big hunking Bluebird 150 lb. capacity clay mixer similar to
the one at the school. ARRRRR- AAARRRR! I don't have the patience to drop
cups of dry material in the hopper and poke it with a stick.
Christmas Cheer!
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
San Antonio, Texas USA
L. P. Skeen on sat 22 dec 07
Ah so. We had one of those big orange Bluebirds when I was in school. =
Load 'er up, add Budweiser, and 30 minutes later, instant claybody! :)
L
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dale Neese=20
When I think of a "clay mixer" I think of a Soldner Clay Mixer, or a =
clay mixer like the big hunking Bluebird 150 lb. capacity clay mixer =
similar to
the one at the school.
Dale Neese on sun 23 dec 07
Maurice,
the 440 I use is a fine machine. It will give you de-aired ready clay if
that is the way you like to throw your clay. I don't. The tighter the
better. Your idea of perfect clay is different from my definition of
perfect.
Yesterday I pugged a hundred pounds of clay to make 2 lb bowls. I cut the
pugs into 2 lb pieces and bagged them. Perhaps today or tomorrow I will take
each 2 lb piece out and give it a firm wedging before putting it on the
wheel to throw. Usually 6 to 12 pieces in a bag beside the wheel ready to
go. 25-30 minutes work. Physically I can't sit at the wheel and throw piece
after piece like I used to. I need to get up, and move around, stretch, and
wedge some more.
Over the years of making pots, if your clay is not well prepared in the way
you yourself prefer and my hands know the difference from clays right out of
the bag, no wedged clay, some wedged clay, fresh clay, tightly wedged aged
clay, then I feel the clay does not respond to your skills. It kinda
controls you instead of you controlling it. With students in class I will
remind them of this, prepare your clay. Then if one of the student wants me
to show them a movement with me putting my hands on their clay on the wheel,
my gosh, how can you even attempt to make anything but a simple, low thrown
form with clay this loose? Did you wedge it? "yes, once or twice....I hate
wedging".
Darlene Yarnetsky-Mudcat Pottery on sun 23 dec 07
As far as leaving clay in the pugmill, I left clay in mine in my peter
pugger (I have the next size up) for over a year WITHOUT any extra
plastic or anything and it was not dried out. So those seals must work
pretty well.
Happy holidays all!
Darlene Y.
| |
|
