WILLIAM JAMES on fri 21 dec 07
Hello and Merry christmas,
=20
This is my first post to Clayart. I have been doing a lot of reading as of =
late looking at all the very nice glaze mixes everyone has been posting. I =
currently have a copy of digifire glaze calc and understand how to use it "=
some what" and understand what each thing in a (basic) glaze might produce =
as a result of its volume. The only missing input I need is how much stinki=
ng water do I put in?? lets say I am putting together 100 gram batches woul=
d it be I need 50 mill water. I have come to the conclusion that it is all =
a part of what one might like but i was wishing to get a little insight as =
to what the experts would use in a 100 gram batch. And I was wondering if t=
hey "experts" might think it would be o.k. to multiply the said volume of w=
ater along side the volume of dry glaze. i.e: 1000 grams of glaze to 500 m=
l. of water.=20
=20
I have no formal education in the way of clay. I like to play in the dirt a=
nd dig for gold which I would like to place into my glaze. I have a backgro=
und in Histology medical labs and am now in my 9th year in the oil field as=
an MWD "black gold" I will post later the findings of my latest experiment=
in which I will try to turn raw gold from the ground mined by me into gold=
chloride and then into a rose glaze. wish me luck.
=20
Thanks in advance and keep posting i enjoy reading what every one has to sa=
y about clay.
=20
Joe James AKA william james
=20
P.S. I have heard of a hydrometer but to what gravity. And a funnel vis tes=
t so what vis do I need and I see some of you spray too!!!! oh man???=
Timothy Joko-Veltman on fri 21 dec 07
I would not put so little water in a glaze ... it would probably be
very pasty. Usually, you will need at least 100ml of water for 100g
of glaze, but it depends on the ingredients, and specific gravity
(relative density; relative to water). If you want, to get a really
close approximation of how much water to add to give you a given
specific gravity with a given glaze, you can use Brongniart's formula
... or use the spreadsheet I made a while ago, which, while not
perfect, gets the computer to crunch the numbers for you. There are
links to a MS Word and OpenOffice.org version here:
http://timothy.joko-veltman.net/pottery/
As for choosing a specific gravity, this depends a little on the
bisque temperature (and hence porosity) of your pieces, and some
glazes may be better thick and others thin. I bisque slowly to 900C,
and like glazes with specific gravities around 125-135.
Cheers,
Tim
On Dec 21, 2007 4:21 PM, WILLIAM JAMES wrote:
> Hello and Merry christmas,
>
> This is my first post to Clayart. I have been doing a lot of reading as of late looking at all the very nice glaze mixes everyone has been posting. I currently have a copy of digifire glaze calc and understand how to use it "some what" and understand what each thing in a (basic) glaze might produce as a result of its volume. The only missing input I need is how much stinking water do I put in?? lets say I am putting together 100 gram batches would it be I need 50 mill water. I have come to the conclusion that it is all a part of what one might like but i was wishing to get a little insight as to what the experts would use in a 100 gram batch. And I was wondering if they "experts" might think it would be o.k. to multiply the said volume of water along side the volume of dry glaze. i.e: 1000 grams of glaze to 500 ml. of water.
>
> I have no formal education in the way of clay. I like to play in the dirt and dig for gold which I would like to place into my glaze. I have a background in Histology medical labs and am now in my 9th year in the oil field as an MWD "black gold" I will post later the findings of my latest experiment in which I will try to turn raw gold from the ground mined by me into gold chloride and then into a rose glaze. wish me luck.
>
> Thanks in advance and keep posting i enjoy reading what every one has to say about clay.
>
> Joe James AKA william james
>
> P.S. I have heard of a hydrometer but to what gravity. And a funnel vis test so what vis do I need and I see some of you spray too!!!! oh man???
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
John Sankey on sat 22 dec 07
"lets say I am putting together 100 gram batches would it be I
need 50 mill water."
It depends on whether you are brushing (moderately thick),
dipping (thinner) or spraying (really thin). It also depends on
the absorbency of your bisque. I use 70 g water with 100 g mix to
start, let it age for a day, then add more if needed.
Hydrometers are iffy things to use because glazes aren't a pure
liquid, but rather a suspension. If you want to standardize your
mixes, see http://sankey.ws/glazemix.html near the bottom.
You'll find what works best for you quickly enough once you have
a few things fired.
John
--
Include 'Byrd' in the subject line of your reply
to get through my spam filter.
WILLIAM JAMES on sat 22 dec 07
Thanks Tim its a starting point and I will try the 100 ml water to 100 ml g=
laze. I started with 75 ml water and found it too thick to brush on but sti=
ll runny just not right. I bisque to ^6 with a stoneware clay. I just don't=
want to put too much and wind up with everything dropping out.
=20
my next trip to town (45miles) I will look for a glaze hydrometer and try 1=
30 r/d for a dip.=20
=20
Thanks for the reply,
=20
Joe Joe James
=20
> Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:26:37 -0500> From: ceramista.tim@GMAIL.COM> Sub=
ject: Re: water content of glaze mix> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG> > I wou=
ld not put so little water in a glaze ... it would probably be> very pasty.=
Usually, you will need at least 100ml of water for 100g> of glaze, but it =
depends on the ingredients, and specific gravity> (relative density; relati=
ve to water). If you want, to get a really> close approximation of how much=
water to add to give you a given> specific gravity with a given glaze, you=
can use Brongniart's formula> ... or use the spreadsheet I made a while ag=
o, which, while not> perfect, gets the computer to crunch the numbers for y=
ou. There are> links to a MS Word and OpenOffice.org version here:> http://=
timothy.joko-veltman.net/pottery/> > As for choosing a specific gravity, th=
is depends a little on the> bisque temperature (and hence porosity) of your=
pieces, and some> glazes may be better thick and others thin. I bisque slo=
wly to 900C,> and like glazes with specific gravities around 125-135.> > Ch=
eers,> > Tim> > On Dec 21, 2007 4:21 PM, WILLIAM JAMES om> wrote:> > Hello and Merry christmas,> >> > This is my first post to Cla=
yart. I have been doing a lot of reading as of late looking at all the very=
nice glaze mixes everyone has been posting. I currently have a copy of dig=
ifire glaze calc and understand how to use it "some what" and understand wh=
at each thing in a (basic) glaze might produce as a result of its volume. T=
he only missing input I need is how much stinking water do I put in?? lets =
say I am putting together 100 gram batches would it be I need 50 mill water=
. I have come to the conclusion that it is all a part of what one might lik=
e but i was wishing to get a little insight as to what the experts would us=
e in a 100 gram batch. And I was wondering if they "experts" might think it=
would be o.k. to multiply the said volume of water along side the volume o=
f dry glaze. i.e: 1000 grams of glaze to 500 ml. of water.> >> > I have no =
formal education in the way of clay. I like to play in the dirt and dig for=
gold which I would like to place into my glaze. I have a background in His=
tology medical labs and am now in my 9th year in the oil field as an MWD "b=
lack gold" I will post later the findings of my latest experiment in which =
I will try to turn raw gold from the ground mined by me into gold chloride =
and then into a rose glaze. wish me luck.> >> > Thanks in advance and keep =
posting i enjoy reading what every one has to say about clay.> >> > Joe Jam=
es AKA william james> >> > P.S. I have heard of a hydrometer but to what gr=
avity. And a funnel vis test so what vis do I need and I see some of you sp=
ray too!!!! oh man???> > __________________________________________________=
____________________________> > Clayart members may send postings to: claya=
rt@lsv.ceramics.org> >> > You may look at the archives for the list, post m=
essages, or change your> > subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org=
/cic/clayart/> >> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reache=
d at melpots2@visi.com> >> > ______________________________________________=
________________________________> Clayart members may send postings to: cla=
yart@lsv.ceramics.org> > You may look at the archives for the list, post me=
ssages, or change your> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/ci=
c/clayart/> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at m=
elpots2@visi.com=
Craig Martell on sat 22 dec 07
Joe, aka William was asking:
>The only missing input I need is how much stinking water do I put in??
>lets say I am putting together 100 gram batches would it be I need 50 mill
>water.
Hi:
Here's the way I approach the water content of glazes. Maybe it will be of
help to you.
I add 1ml or CC of water for every gram of dry ingredient. That includes
added colorants, suspension agents, opacifiers, whatever is added dry. So
I would use 100ml of water for 100 grams of dry weight. This gives a
"control" of wet to dry ratios in a suspension, which is what glaze slops
are. I can compare the behavior of glazes that I use with regard to the
mixed consistency. Some are just right, some are too fluid, some are a
little too thick. I add flocculants to the thin ones and deflocculants to
the thicker glazes so they will apply well.
There's more to this than I've written here but that's the basic
approach. I think you'll find some real different behaviors of dry stuff
in relation to particle size. For example, moderate to large percentages
of fine Red Iron Oxide with really "thicken" a glaze or, I should say, give
the glaze a resistance to flow. So it goes.
regards, Craig Martell Hopewell, Oregon
Ron Roy on thu 27 dec 07
Hi James,
It's always a good idea to have some idea about how much water is needed
but as others have noted there are many factors.
I have never measured water but - if I had to use a glaze right away -
added it slowly - making sure it was on the thick side and adding more as
needed. I would help to have the water in a measuring container so you knew
how much you need for each different glaze and keep track of that.
Glazes with a lot of raw clay (say 20%) will need more water than glazes
that only have 10% raw clay for instance.
You will learn - as we all have - the hard way. As long as you don't have
any solubles in the glazes you can always let it settle over night and take
some of the clear water off the next day if you get it too thin.
I mix my glazes well before so I can test fire them before using them -
adding too much water makes it easy to put through a sieve - I then just
remove the excess water the next day.
RR
>Hello and Merry christmas,
>
>This is my first post to Clayart. I have been doing a lot of reading as of
>late looking at all the very nice glaze mixes everyone has been posting. I
>currently have a copy of digifire glaze calc and understand how to use it
>"some what" and understand what each thing in a (basic) glaze might
>produce as a result of its volume. The only missing input I need is how
>much stinking water do I put in?? lets say I am putting together 100 gram
>batches would it be I need 50 mill water. I have come to the conclusion
>that it is all a part of what one might like but i was wishing to get a
>little insight as to what the experts would use in a 100 gram batch. And I
>was wondering if they "experts" might think it would be o.k. to multiply
>the said volume of water along side the volume of dry glaze. i.e: 1000
>grams of glaze to 500 ml. of water.
>
>I have no formal education in the way of clay. I like to play in the dirt
>and dig for gold which I would like to place into my glaze. I have a
>background in Histology medical labs and am now in my 9th year in the oil
>field as an MWD "black gold" I will post later the findings of my latest
>experiment in which I will try to turn raw gold from the ground mined by
>me into gold chloride and then into a rose glaze. wish me luck.
>
>Thanks in advance and keep posting i enjoy reading what every one has to
>say about clay.
>
>Joe James AKA william james
>
>P.S. I have heard of a hydrometer but to what gravity. And a funnel vis
>test so what vis do I need and I see some of you spray too!!!! oh man???
Ron Roy
RR#4
15084 Little Lake Road
Brighton, Ontario
Canada
K0K 1H0
Donna Kat on fri 28 dec 07
My first bit it input is DON'T put water in the dry material! I mean sure
you can do it that way but you are giving yourself a great deal more work
to do if you are mixing up any quanity of glaze at all. I was taught to
slake the dry material into the water/glaze.
Start out with an equal volume of water to dry material (this almost
always is too thick but that is fine since it is easy to add water (just
do so in small amounts). Take a handful of dry material and add to water
(do this near the surface so you are not getting dust in the air). If dry
material is floating on the surface, wait until it sinks before adding
more dry material.
Being extremely lazy I no longer slake my dry materials. I just add them
to the water as fast as I can without making dust and then let the mix
soak at least overnight. The next day or when I get to it, I stir and
sieve.
So stir, sieve, put your thumb in and see how it drips off your nail. You
don't want mud on your nail but you don't want muddy water either. You
want to be able to see a clear outline of your nail but not to see through
to it (this is before it drips off). Some like it to look like heavy
cream, others milk. I started potting in the desert. We would rinse our
pots off before glazing so our glaze was on the rich cream side. Now out
on the East coast I rinse my pots when the come out of the bisque and
glaze them dry. Unless I want my glaze really thick (Iron Red or Floating
Blue), it is more milk like. Don't use your bare hand if you are using
materials you do not want absorbed into your skin, which happens quickly
(Lithium, Barium, high copper, cobalt, etc.) There are many ways to test
the thickness (a paper cup with a hole punch through it - then check how
it drips, a hydrometer, a stick with a weight on it, etc. do a web search)
but you need to know how thick will work for the individual glaze and for
the way you bisque and glaze. Brushing, dipping, spraying all use very
different glaze conditions. You are going to get some awful failures
which is good. From these you learn what works and what doesn't. Check
how thick the glaze is on each piece (scratch with your fingernail near
the bottom - it will heal over if the scratch is thin) and keep notes.
Don't rely on your memory! Take detailed notes, with illustrations.
Welcome to what may rule your life for a very long time! I get few joys
greater than picking up a pot, loving the feel and look of it and then
discovering that it is one of mine.
Donna
P.S. learn the difference between floculate and de-floculate - it makes a
big difference in how you are applying your glazes. You want to de-
floculate for brushing (a stack of cards) and floculate for dipping (a
flock of sheep spread out evenly on the hill).
http://www.claytimes.com/articles_glazeadjusting.html
WILLIAM JAMES on mon 31 dec 07
Thank you all who spent the time to answer my question. I now feel better a=
bout my glazes and how to make them do what I need.
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
> Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:18:41 -0500> From: disisdkat@HOTMAIL.COM> Subje=
ct: Re: water content of glaze mix> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG> > My firs=
t bit it input is DON'T put water in the dry material! I mean sure> you can=
do it that way but you are giving yourself a great deal more work> to do i=
f you are mixing up any quanity of glaze at all. I was taught to> slake the=
dry material into the water/glaze.> > Start out with an equal volume of wa=
ter to dry material (this almost> always is too thick but that is fine sinc=
e it is easy to add water (just> do so in small amounts). Take a handful of=
dry material and add to water> (do this near the surface so you are not ge=
tting dust in the air). If dry> material is floating on the surface, wait u=
ntil it sinks before adding> more dry material.> > Being extremely lazy I n=
o longer slake my dry materials. I just add them> to the water as fast as I=
can without making dust and then let the mix> soak at least overnight. The=
next day or when I get to it, I stir and> sieve.> > So stir, sieve, put yo=
ur thumb in and see how it drips off your nail. You> don't want mud on your=
nail but you don't want muddy water either. You> want to be able to see a =
clear outline of your nail but not to see through> to it (this is before it=
drips off). Some like it to look like heavy> cream, others milk. I started=
potting in the desert. We would rinse our> pots off before glazing so our =
glaze was on the rich cream side. Now out> on the East coast I rinse my pot=
s when the come out of the bisque and> glaze them dry. Unless I want my gla=
ze really thick (Iron Red or Floating> Blue), it is more milk like. Don't u=
se your bare hand if you are using> materials you do not want absorbed into=
your skin, which happens quickly> (Lithium, Barium, high copper, cobalt, e=
tc.) There are many ways to test> the thickness (a paper cup with a hole pu=
nch through it - then check how> it drips, a hydrometer, a stick with a wei=
ght on it, etc. do a web search)> but you need to know how thick will work =
for the individual glaze and for> the way you bisque and glaze. Brushing, d=
ipping, spraying all use very> different glaze conditions. You are going to=
get some awful failures> which is good. From these you learn what works an=
d what doesn't. Check> how thick the glaze is on each piece (scratch with y=
our fingernail near> the bottom - it will heal over if the scratch is thin)=
and keep notes.> Don't rely on your memory! Take detailed notes, with illu=
strations.> > Welcome to what may rule your life for a very long time! I ge=
t few joys> greater than picking up a pot, loving the feel and look of it a=
nd then> discovering that it is one of mine.> > Donna> > P.S. learn the dif=
ference between floculate and de-floculate - it makes a> big difference in =
how you are applying your glazes. You want to de-> floculate for brushing (=
a stack of cards) and floculate for dipping (a> flock of sheep spread out e=
venly on the hill).> > http://www.claytimes.com/articles_glazeadjusting.htm=
l> > ______________________________________________________________________=
________> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org> >=
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your> =
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/> > Moderator =
of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com=
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