MEL JACOBSON on mon 7 jan 08
phil please invent something..now.
you will make at least 80 bucks a month.
here is the skinny:
i want the plate to sit vertically...up and down.
reduce the shadow effect and glare.
so...most folks put a heavy object on the background/formica etc.
lean the plate against it...and watch it slip and slide.
the blu tack holds the plate from slipping...but often
it shows. i want the plate to look like it is suspended.
i have tried wires...monofilament...but it always shows...perhaps
with photoshop it can be take out. but, another dumb step.
i have used gobs of tape/duct tape/blu tac/ glue and other systems.
nothing works perfectly. the heavy object behind is not a big issue.
in fact, a bag of wet clay pounded to shape works well.
some folks just bite the bullet and use a plate rack...but many of
us hate those photos...with a big black/or plastic rack showing.
this is a clayart quest. let's get it solved. phil, you are the main man.
or else we will have to turn to michael wendt....our resident inventor
and magic man. you could call your invention `the buffalo photo and plate
magical suspension system`.
just don't let wayne hear about it...he will call fema and have this
entire project stopped. you know how he is.
mel
James and Sherron Bowen on mon 7 jan 08
think vacuum Phil.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "MEL JACOBSON"
To:
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 1:04 PM
Subject: photographing plates part 2/phil
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 7 jan 08
Hi Mel,
Okay then...I will invent something now.
Just need to turn the focus knob a little to hunt for the 'spot'...
So -
When you say 'plate' I tend to think of a 'Plate' ( or 'plate' ) ...being
what one sees some Supper being put onto now and then.
Plates being 10 or 12 inches across, and, having usually a mere hint of an
incipient Foot...and being not so deep as Trenchers or other kindred things
along the continuity toward Bowls.
Platters, being like BIG Plates, usually having more of a true Foot...and of
course being sometimes near a Yard across their rim...and gnarly even.
So...
Would this 'holder' be asked to hold Platters too? ( Platter Stew?)
Or...only JUST ( proper ) 'Plates'?
And, would we ( we? ) expect the middle area within the
hint-of-an-incipient-foot, to be Glazed, typically?
Inquiring mimes want to no...
Phil
l v
P.S.
If Jack Kennedy were still around, he'd pronounce "f.e.m.a" as 'Femur'...(
you know, like "Cuba" was 'Cuber' and so on...I sure liked him...darn it...)
----- Original Message -----
From: "MEL JACOBSON"
> phil please invent something..now.
> you will make at least 80 bucks a month.
>
> here is the skinny:
>
> i want the plate to sit vertically...up and down.
> reduce the shadow effect and glare.
> so...most folks put a heavy object on the background/formica etc.
> lean the plate against it...and watch it slip and slide.
> the blu tack holds the plate from slipping...but often
> it shows. i want the plate to look like it is suspended.
> i have tried wires...monofilament...but it always shows...perhaps
> with photoshop it can be take out. but, another dumb step.
>
> i have used gobs of tape/duct tape/blu tac/ glue and other systems.
> nothing works perfectly. the heavy object behind is not a big issue.
> in fact, a bag of wet clay pounded to shape works well.
>
> some folks just bite the bullet and use a plate rack...but many of
> us hate those photos...with a big black/or plastic rack showing.
>
> this is a clayart quest. let's get it solved. phil, you are the main man.
> or else we will have to turn to michael wendt....our resident inventor
> and magic man. you could call your invention `the buffalo photo and plate
> magical suspension system`.
> just don't let wayne hear about it...he will call fema and have this
> entire project stopped. you know how he is.
> mel
WJ Seidl on mon 7 jan 08
NONSENSE!
I already invented just the thing you need, Mel. I use it to hold small
stuff up for spray painting.
Get yourself down to the local Ace Hardware.
Buy a strap hinge and bring it home.
Crunch the hinged part (pivot) in a vise until it becomes difficult (not
impossible) to move
(so it won't move on its own at all) or just wail it a few times with a
good 3 pound hammer....same,same.
Mount one end to your table, (or to a piece of plywood) either with a
screw, nails, glue, chewing gum or Velcro, so that the hinge end that
you crunched in the vise faces toward the camera. Spray the whole thing
Rustoleum flat battleship grey or flat black. You won't see it anyhow,
but keeping the light from bouncing off it can't hurt.
On the other end, (which sticks UP), mount a big suction cup. Glue it,
screw it, you'll figure it out.
Stick the platter to the suction cup, position the angle the way you
want, for glare or composition and take your pictures.
No suction cup? Tape the plate on it with duct tape. Not as elegant,
but it works.
Should cost you less than $12.99 (for the hinge), calls to FEMA in
Washington not included. Will last longer than you do.
Wayne Seidl
MEL JACOBSON wrote:
> phil please invent something..now.
> you will make at least 80 bucks a month.
>
> here is the skinny:
>
> i want the plate to sit vertically...up and down.
> reduce the shadow effect and glare.
> so...most folks put a heavy object on the background/formica etc.
> lean the plate against it...and watch it slip and slide.
> the blu tack holds the plate from slipping...but often
> it shows. i want the plate to look like it is suspended.
> i have tried wires...monofilament...but it always shows...perhaps
> with photoshop it can be take out. but, another dumb step.
>
> i have used gobs of tape/duct tape/blu tac/ glue and other systems.
> nothing works perfectly. the heavy object behind is not a big issue.
> in fact, a bag of wet clay pounded to shape works well.
>
> some folks just bite the bullet and use a plate rack...but many of
> us hate those photos...with a big black/or plastic rack showing.
>
> this is a clayart quest. let's get it solved. phil, you are the main
> man.
> or else we will have to turn to michael wendt....our resident inventor
> and magic man. you could call your invention `the buffalo photo and
> plate
> magical suspension system`.
> just don't let wayne hear about it...he will call fema and have this
> entire project stopped. you know how he is.
> mel
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
Bruce Girrell on mon 7 jan 08
A tripod sits behind the plate and is hidden from camera view by the plate.
The feet of the tripod are tipped with rubber or similar material so that it
won't slip.
An adjustable arm sits atop the tripod and is generally parallel with the
table top. The adjustable arm projects forward from the tip of the tripod
and terminates in a suction cup. For smooth-bottomed plates, stick the
suction cup to the bottom of the plate and adjust the arm so that the plate
tilts back slightly from vertical. For plates made with a coarser clay body,
fill the suction cup with museum putty and stick it to the rear of the
plate. Adjust as above.
Send royalties to:
Bruce Girrell
Veena Raghavan on mon 7 jan 08
Hi Phil,
Now, waiting for you to make that invisible plate support that makes the
plate look suspended (love that idea, Mel).
May you could make some sort of advice with a suction thing that would hold
the plate virtually in the air, just above the bottom part of the background.
I can already feel your mind working on methods and techniques. Can't wait for
the results!
Happy New Year.
Veena
In a message dated 1/7/2008 3:16:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
melpots2@VISI.COM writes:
>
>
> phil please invent something..now.
> you will make at least 80 bucks a month.
>
VeenaRaghavan@cs.com
Betsy Levine on mon 7 jan 08
I may have missed some earlier posts, but why not put the plate flat on the
floor or a low table and point the camera down at it?
Betsy
mel wrote
Subject: photographing plates part 2/phil
>here is the skinny:
i want the plate to sit vertically...up and down.
reduce the shadow effect and glare.
...>i want the plate to look like it is suspended.
i have tried wires...monofilament...but it always shows...perhaps
with photoshop it can be take out. but, another dumb step.
Jeanette Harris on mon 7 jan 08
I'd guess something with a set of 3 legs and a big 'ole suction cup would work.
>phil please invent something..now.
>you will make at least 80 bucks a month.
>
>here is the skinny:
>
>i want the plate to sit vertically...up and down.
>reduce the shadow effect and glare.
>so...most folks put a heavy object on the background/formica etc.
>lean the plate against it...and watch it slip and slide.
>the blu tack holds the plate from slipping...but often
>it shows. i want the plate to look like it is suspended.
>i have tried wires...monofilament...but it always shows...perhaps
>with photoshop it can be take out. but, another dumb step.
>
>i have used gobs of tape/duct tape/blu tac/ glue and other systems.
>nothing works perfectly. the heavy object behind is not a big issue.
>in fact, a bag of wet clay pounded to shape works well.
>
>some folks just bite the bullet and use a plate rack...but many of
>us hate those photos...with a big black/or plastic rack showing.
>
>this is a clayart quest. let's get it solved. phil, you are the main man.
>or else we will have to turn to michael wendt....our resident inventor
>and magic man. you could call your invention `the buffalo photo and plate
>magical suspension system`.
>just don't let wayne hear about it...he will call fema and have this
>entire project stopped. you know how he is.
>mel
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
--
http://jeanetteharrisblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.washingtonpotters.org/members/Jeanette_Harris/wpa_jeanette_harris.htm
Jeanette Harris
Washingzona
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 7 jan 08
Hi Vienna,
So nice of you to mention...!
Ultimately, I feel that the best means of 'suspending' Pots or Plates and so
on for being Photographed, should be what will allow the best results, while
also being the simplest, surest, and, in that, the least liable to mishap or
damage should something go amiss.
These items are always precious to some degree, and sometimes very much
so...and any method which relys on something which if it fails, could see
the Pot or Plate fall...would worry me, because, sooner or later, it will
fail, for one reason or another.
So, my own opinion, is for the items to be Photographed, to be securely
elevated on a small, low, stout something, which will be invisible from
'above', so they can not fall, or, even if they did, they would merely be
tilting or rolling off to meet the ground cover Material, with almost
certainly no harm to them for it, especially if some padding or a folded
Blanket is used beneath the Ground-Cover 'background'.
Having the Pot or Plate or whatever, some four or five inches above a
neutral field-texture, is enough to achieve a very quiet, and mysterious
'floating' grace for the Image to convey...and, when composed in an Opaque
Fabric 'Tent', should be free from any pesky shadow issues or bright-spots.
I never understood why the 'usual' recourse for so much Photography of Pots
and other items, should be done so awkwardly from the 'side'...with problems
or compromises then about how to support or lean or hold the item, how to
compose the thing with tacit apologies for how it is heavily "on" something,
or dangers of make-do elevations from behind, fighting Gravity...when, from
'above' ( to me ) makes so much more sense...and the 'support' then is
easily elected with the intent of it being invisible from that view, with no
dangers of Gravity,. and no awkward compromises effecting the mood or
nuances of the composition.
Plus, anyone can do it pretty easily...and at no special expense other than
some sheer or Gauzy Fabric, some basting stitches maybe, and a clear place
on the floor to set things up.
Love,
Phil
law vs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Veena Raghavan"
> Hi Phil,
>
> Now, waiting for you to make that invisible plate support that makes the
> plate look suspended (love that idea, Mel).
>
> May you could make some sort of advice with a suction thing that would
> hold
> the plate virtually in the air, just above the bottom part of the
> background.
> I can already feel your mind working on methods and techniques. Can't wait
> for
> the results!
>
> Happy New Year.
>
> Veena
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on mon 7 jan 08
Hi Betsy,
It would look 'bad' if it were not elevated "above" it's background.
And, unless allowed to enjoy a diffused Light, such as is filtered from even
indirect and surrounding sources, through some opaque Fabric or other
surrounding the composition, one would suffer to have 'Hot Spots' or
'Holidays' or small places of 'Glare' and reflection occurring, from what
direct Light is shining on the Plate or other Pottery thing.
Hence, the two criteria -
Allow the item some dignity, and even grace...and, allow it's appearance in
the image to be free of 'hot spots'...
This then means one must enact certain Rites or Rituals, and attend to them
faithfully, in order for the matter to be satisfied.
Such is my own appreciation anyway...and, far as I know, represents the
whole of it well enough.
Phil
law vs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Betsy Levine"
>I may have missed some earlier posts, but why not put the plate flat on the
> floor or a low table and point the camera down at it?
>
> Betsy
>
>
> mel wrote
> Subject: photographing plates part 2/phil
>
>>here is the skinny:
>
> i want the plate to sit vertically...up and down.
> reduce the shadow effect and glare.
>
> ...>i want the plate to look like it is suspended.
> i have tried wires...monofilament...but it always shows...perhaps
> with photoshop it can be take out. but, another dumb step.
Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 8 jan 08
Plate Holders are a distraction and look unprofessional in a jury shot.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Lee Love
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:54 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: photographing plates part 2/phil
>
> Does it make anybody else uneasy to see a plate
> floating unnaturally in space?
>
> I always asked: "what is defying gravity?"
>
> I prefer simple plate holders.
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft
>
> "Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by
> education." -- Bertrand Russell
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or
> change your subscription settings here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
John Rodgers on tue 8 jan 08
Betsy,
Good call.
I do this all the time. And if I want a floating look, I just put
something under the plate. Works every time. Also, there are times when
it is desirable to have a shot of the plate throwing a shadow. I move a
light around until I get the angle I want then shoot. I use a neutral
grey field on the floor behind the plate for the photography.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Betsy Levine wrote:
> I may have missed some earlier posts, but why not put the plate flat on the
> floor or a low table and point the camera down at it?
>
> Betsy
>
>
> mel wrote
> Subject: photographing plates part 2/phil
>
>
>> here is the skinny:
>>
>
> i want the plate to sit vertically...up and down.
> reduce the shadow effect and glare.
>
> ...>i want the plate to look like it is suspended.
> i have tried wires...monofilament...but it always shows...perhaps
> with photoshop it can be take out. but, another dumb step.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
>
>
marci Boskie's Mama =^..^= on tue 8 jan 08
>Mel said:
>phil please invent something..now.
>you will make at least 80 bucks a month.
>
>here is the skinny:
>
>i want the plate to sit vertically...up and down.
>reduce the shadow effect and glare.
Hey Mel,
I aint Phill . I dont even play him on TV ... but I have
an idea that might work ...Dont know.. Havent tried it:
I envision a board ( plywood? whatever ) set up so that
is is vertically free- standing....( Legs on the bottom, wired
up , L-brackets and clamped to a table , whatever )
Cover the board with background material or paint it ....
cut rectangular hole in center of board large enough to
accommodate the 2 closed handles of an auto dent puller
The dent puller should have enough suction power to hold even
a heavy plate or platter ...
Pop the puller onto the back of the platter or plate
, run the handles through the hole in the
board and then secure them in back of the board..
( a piece of wood cut to fit and slipped
through both handles should do nicely and should hold the
plate firmly against the board)
What cha think?
If this works for ya, you can buy me a drink at NCECA
..............If it doesnt work, my name is Phil :O)
Marci Blattenberger Boskie's Mama =^..^=
http://www.marciblattenberger.com
marci@ppio.com
Porcelain Painters International Online http://www.ppio.com
--
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Joseph Herbert on tue 8 jan 08
Mel,
How about a hole or two in the foot ring for hanging purposes. Often a well
decorated platter ends up on the wall anyway and the inclusion of a hanging
provision during fabrication could facilitate that. I have also seen tight
wires installed in a groove around a footring with a hanging loop included.
If there is no foot ring, is the bottom surface smooth enough for a suction
cup?
In the area of vast over-application technosolve, something like the vacuum
disk glazing aid. Once positioned the powerful little sucker could receive
platters with easy repeatability by removing and applying vacuum. Even a
homemade version, bowl with a hole and silicone-on-rim (named after the
British hamlet), should support any reasonably sized platter. A 5 inch bowl
that holds a 1/2 atmosphere differential has a 150 pound force holding the
platter. If the bowl rim is slip resistant, that should be a good grip - a
9 inch bowl gives 500 pounds of force.
I have thought about the tendency of craft persons to fabricate tools or job
aids from the material they use for their craft. It is easily available to
them and they have familiarity with the operation. The case of woodworkers
or metal workers is not so startling since we expect all sorts of things to
be made of wood or metal but sewing people will tend to make some things,
which other people might expect to be wood or metal, of cloth, clay workers
use clay, both wet and fired, for all sorts of things.
This is an opportunity for such an application of making a tool from clay.
A thrown bowl with a provision for an installed hose connection, an
attachment for a support standard, and perhaps a groove in the rim to
support all that silicone. I envision a hole in the relatively thick bottom
to accept an epoxied piece of pipe. The other threaded end of the pipe
screws into a standard pipe fitting which in turn is supported by a floor
flange. Choosing the pipe lengths and fitting angles carefully will conceal
the whole mess, and the vacuum hose, behind the platter. If you have a
vacuum pump on your pug mill, it will be yet another use for that piece of
equipment.
Oh, but you said you wanted simple...
Joe
Joseph Herbert
Technical Writer
Irving, Texas
214-725-8305 (Cell)
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9:14 AM
Lee Love on tue 8 jan 08
Does it make anybody else uneasy to see a plate floating
unnaturally in space?
I always asked: "what is defying gravity?"
I prefer simple plate holders.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by
education." -- Bertrand Russell
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