Robert on tue 8 jan 08
This is what I've been thinking for the oil burning component of the
multi fuel kiln I'm building. One caveat... it is essentially a plate
burner and simple/not simple. One lack I see in the kiln I'm currently
designing is that it will not be capable of utilizing multiple fuel
types in one firing. Rather is will be set up for one fuel for each
firing. The change over, in terms if time will be minimal.... simple
inserts. This kiln.... well the point is more... I don't know where
I'll be in 6 months, a year, two years, five year... I know what region
I'll be in, but specific house, in town, out of town, little piece of
land. We have hopes, vision, direction. But many details are "to be
determined". Most likely I will set it up in one place for a time and
configure it to what ever fuel is most practically available in any
given circumstance. But I'm constructing it in large cast interlocking
blocks with the consideration that it will be quicker to set up and take
down than a conventional brick kiln. And adaptable.
Back to oil burners. The oil burners I'm envisioning will
basically be inserts in the bourrey box. I will do my best to describe
them and will post sketches soon. If you divided your bourrey box in
half across the width., you'd have two rectangles. Each half would
consist of, mas o menos, a rectangular funnel. The funnel would be
asymmetrical in cross section to create the shallowest grade
possible on the oil feed side. The funnel/nozzle would reduce in slope
and cross sectional area as it approached the port. The reduction in
slope would increase the spreading of the oil (to maximize combustion
surface area). And the volume reduction (venturi) would increase
velocity, lower pressure and thereby reduce the vaporization temp of the
oil significantly. Major hat tip to Hank for that one. Another
component of this burner, which is intended to be an efficient natural
draft veg oil burner, would be a vapor field. Hank sent me some
work from Stoddard (? Hank please expound on quien el senor es!) in
which he was using primitive (alaska / tribal ?) oil burners wherein he
used crushed IFBs as a wick to increase the surface area=combustion
efficiency. In this design the lowest, shallowest, section could be
cast simply or sophisticatedly from egg carton to acoustic tile,
engineering wise, or could be a tray lip with crushed IFB , allowing a
determined, restricted/venturi flow over the top. I'm planning on doing
this in homemade castable, but I could see it being simpler to build
from, mas o menos, "sagger clay". Coarse, open body, low coe, or,
sorta, cone 10 bisque. Easiest w/o resorting to high tech clay
bodies. One additional advantage of these inserts in a bourrey kiln
would be the ability to simply preheat the burners with a kindling fire
in the coal chamber of the bourrey. It seems like oil benefits from a
preheat, especially w/ natural draft. I'll try to get sketches up soon.
Take care,
Robert
Paul Haigh wrote:
> is there a simple means of burning waste oil/bacon grease/fryolator oil as a supplemental fuel source in my wood kiln? The Bourry box fires pretty well already and gives great ash deposits, but hey- if I have this stuff to burn already- is there a simple way to introduce it without a plate/nozzle burner?
>
> Last firing- I could put my bare hand on the wood in the top of the fire box when the chamber was at 2000F- burning very green wood. The snow on the wood took a while to melt in there. If I introduced small amounts on a piece of wood, it would gradually warm and vaporize. The kiln is extremely clean burning, even in reduction, as per Steve Harrison's suggestions.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
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>
James and Sherron Bowen on tue 8 jan 08
Have you looked in the archives? There is some information on Dennis Parks'
work with oil burners and of course he wrote a book on the subject. " A
Potter's Guide to Raw Glazing & Oil Firing"
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Burning oil in a wood kiln
Paul Haigh on tue 8 jan 08
is there a simple means of burning waste oil/bacon grease/fryolator oil as a supplemental fuel source in my wood kiln? The Bourry box fires pretty well already and gives great ash deposits, but hey- if I have this stuff to burn already- is there a simple way to introduce it without a plate/nozzle burner?
Last firing- I could put my bare hand on the wood in the top of the fire box when the chamber was at 2000F- burning very green wood. The snow on the wood took a while to melt in there. If I introduced small amounts on a piece of wood, it would gradually warm and vaporize. The kiln is extremely clean burning, even in reduction, as per Steve Harrison's suggestions.
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on tue 8 jan 08
Hi Paul,
I have never done this, so I am only imagining...
But, if you were to heat the Oils in a Bucket or something, so their
viscosity is thin, you could soak however many pieces of Wood in it, letting
them absorb it, setting them aside to cool, where it/they would remain
stable till needed, especially in the cooler times of year.
Or, heated and filtered, thinned if need be with some Kerosene, you could
arrange a 'drip' method, for the Oil to drip into the Kiln at some desirable
place in it...either by Gravity, or using a pressurised Tank. How to keep a
Drip line end 'cool' enough, I do not know, but some experiment would find
out...or, maybe it would not matter anyway if the end was hot, unless it
melted or something...Lol...but if hot enough to combust the Oils still in
the last few inches of the line, the line might clog from combustion
by-products not getting hot enough to burn out...
Soaking Wook pieces would seem the most fun, and easiest, to me...
Very Green Wood of course will not absorb the Oils well, so you would be
best off electing old, ideally 'dry', and Seasoned Wood for that.
Phil
l v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Haigh"
> is there a simple means of burning waste oil/bacon grease/fryolator oil as
> a supplemental fuel source in my wood kiln? The Bourry box fires pretty
> well already and gives great ash deposits, but hey- if I have this stuff
> to burn already- is there a simple way to introduce it without a
> plate/nozzle burner?
>
> Last firing- I could put my bare hand on the wood in the top of the fire
> box when the chamber was at 2000F- burning very green wood. The snow on
> the wood took a while to melt in there. If I introduced small amounts on
> a piece of wood, it would gradually warm and vaporize. The kiln is
> extremely clean burning, even in reduction, as per Steve Harrison's
> suggestions.
Lee Love on wed 9 jan 08
I saw an oil burner on the web that used a larger pipe with a small
tube going into it to feed the oil. At one end of the big pipe was a
leaf blower or something similar.
Many noborigama in Japan were switched over to compressed
air oil burners for the firebox. Wood is only used in the climbing
chambers.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by
education." -- Bertrand Russell
Maggie Jones on wed 9 jan 08
This is Soldner's idea only instead of a small tube feeding oil in front
of the pipe a simple little rod is welded at a 45 degree onto the end of
the 2" pipe to allow a drop of oil to roll down in front. ...2 rods if
you want to make a channel. A reversed vacumn cleaner is what we have
used...found that at the dump someone tossed it because the cord was
frayed, easily fixed.
Soldner had a suitcase he took to workshops with this burner in it.(w/o a
blower)
start with wood and when the firebox is hot enough start blowing the oil
in. waste oil or diesel and even a drop of water to add a litle oxygen.
Maggie
On Wed, 9 Jan 2008 14:27:44 +0900 Lee Love
writes:
> I saw an oil burner on the web that used a larger pipe with a small
> tube going into it to feed the oil. At one end of the big pipe was
> a
> leaf blower or something similar.
>
> Many noborigama in Japan were switched over to compressed
> air oil burners for the firebox. Wood is only used in the
> climbing
> chambers.
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft
>
> "Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by
> education." -- Bertrand Russell
>
>
_________________________________________________________________________
_____
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change
> your
> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
Robert on wed 9 jan 08
Sorry, I think it was Stannard ( Dave ?), not Stoddard.
Robert wrote:
> This is what I've been thinking for the oil burning component of the
> multi fuel kiln I'm building. One caveat... it is essentially a plate
> burner and simple/not simple. One lack I see in the kiln I'm
> currently designing is that it will not be capable of utilizing
> multiple fuel types in one firing. Rather is will be set up for one
> fuel for each firing. The change over, in terms if time will be
> minimal.... simple inserts. This kiln.... well the point is more... I
> don't know where I'll be in 6 months, a year, two years, five year...
> I know what region I'll be in, but specific house, in town, out of
> town, little piece of land. We have hopes, vision, direction. But
> many details are "to be determined". Most likely I will set it up in
> one place for a time and configure it to what ever fuel is most
> practically available in any given circumstance. But I'm constructing
> it in large cast interlocking blocks with the consideration that it
> will be quicker to set up and take down than a conventional brick
> kiln. And adaptable.
> Back to oil burners. The oil burners I'm envisioning will
> basically be inserts in the bourrey box. I will do my best to
> describe them and will post sketches soon. If you divided your bourrey
> box in half across the width., you'd have two rectangles. Each half
> would consist of, mas o menos, a rectangular funnel. The funnel would
> be asymmetrical in cross section to create the shallowest grade
> possible on the oil feed side. The funnel/nozzle would reduce in
> slope and cross sectional area as it approached the port. The
> reduction in slope would increase the spreading of the oil (to
> maximize combustion surface area). And the volume reduction (venturi)
> would increase velocity, lower pressure and thereby reduce the
> vaporization temp of the oil significantly. Major hat tip to Hank for
> that one. Another component of this burner, which is intended to be
> an efficient natural draft veg oil burner, would be a vapor field.
> Hank sent me some work from Stoddard (? Hank please expound on quien
> el senor es!) in which he was using primitive (alaska / tribal ?) oil
> burners wherein he used crushed IFBs as a wick to increase the surface
> area=combustion efficiency. In this design the lowest, shallowest,
> section could be cast simply or sophisticatedly from egg carton to
> acoustic tile, engineering wise, or could be a tray lip with crushed
> IFB , allowing a determined, restricted/venturi flow over the top.
> I'm planning on doing this in homemade castable, but I could see it
> being simpler to build from, mas o menos, "sagger clay". Coarse, open
> body, low coe, or, sorta, cone 10 bisque. Easiest w/o resorting to
> high tech clay bodies. One additional advantage of these inserts in a
> bourrey kiln would be the ability to simply preheat the burners with a
> kindling fire in the coal chamber of the bourrey. It seems like oil
> benefits from a preheat, especially w/ natural draft. I'll try to
> get sketches up soon.
> Take care,
> Robert
>
>
> Paul Haigh wrote:
>> is there a simple means of burning waste oil/bacon grease/fryolator
>> oil as a supplemental fuel source in my wood kiln? The Bourry box
>> fires pretty well already and gives great ash deposits, but hey- if I
>> have this stuff to burn already- is there a simple way to introduce
>> it without a plate/nozzle burner?
>>
>> Last firing- I could put my bare hand on the wood in the top of the
>> fire box when the chamber was at 2000F- burning very green wood. The
>> snow on the wood took a while to melt in there. If I introduced
>> small amounts on a piece of wood, it would gradually warm and
>> vaporize. The kiln is extremely clean burning, even in reduction, as
>> per Steve Harrison's suggestions.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots2@visi.com
>>
>>
>
>
Lee Love on thu 10 jan 08
On 1/9/08, Maggie Jones wrote:
> This is Soldner's idea only instead of a small tube feeding oil in front
> of the pipe a simple little rod is welded at a 45 degree onto the end of
> the 2" pipe to allow a drop of oil to roll down in front. .
What I saw online is the tube simply being placed inside the
larger pipe, with the blower forcing it out the firebox end.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by
education." -- Bertrand Russell
Duff bogen on thu 10 jan 08
Robert
As I remember David Stannards description his kiln was much like a a gas fired kiln but where the burners would come through the floor, between kiln wall and bagwall there was a shallow metal tray, which acted as you described. I think I remember David describing a pre-heat system for the combustion air but that might be me imagining what I expect Stannard would do.
My 2-bits based on B-Box shown in pioneer pottery- Remove the clay slab door to the ash pit. Build a oil fire box as a lean-to in front of and opening into the ash pit. The long funnels you describe are heading in the right direction. My theory being that if you have too rapid an increase in the cross section of an oil fire-box the effect is like a drop in temperature and carbon condenses out forming clinkers.
Duff
Robert wrote:
Sorry, I think it was Stannard ( Dave ?), not Stoddard.
Robert wrote:
> This is what I've been thinking for the oil burning component of the
> multi fuel kiln I'm building. One caveat... it is essentially a plate
> burner and simple/not simple. One lack I see in the kiln I'm
> currently designing is that it will not be capable of utilizing
> multiple fuel types in one firing. Rather is will be set up for one
> fuel for each firing. The change over, in terms if time will be
> minimal.... simple inserts. This kiln.... well the point is more... I
> don't know where I'll be in 6 months, a year, two years, five year...
> I know what region I'll be in, but specific house, in town, out of
> town, little piece of land. We have hopes, vision, direction. But
> many details are "to be determined". Most likely I will set it up in
> one place for a time and configure it to what ever fuel is most
> practically available in any given circumstance. But I'm constructing
> it in large cast interlocking blocks with the consideration that it
> will be quicker to set up and take down than a conventional brick
> kiln. And adaptable.
> Back to oil burners. The oil burners I'm envisioning will
> basically be inserts in the bourrey box. I will do my best to
> describe them and will post sketches soon. If you divided your bourrey
> box in half across the width., you'd have two rectangles. Each half
> would consist of, mas o menos, a rectangular funnel. The funnel would
> be asymmetrical in cross section to create the shallowest grade
> possible on the oil feed side. The funnel/nozzle would reduce in
> slope and cross sectional area as it approached the port. The
> reduction in slope would increase the spreading of the oil (to
> maximize combustion surface area). And the volume reduction (venturi)
> would increase velocity, lower pressure and thereby reduce the
> vaporization temp of the oil significantly. Major hat tip to Hank for
> that one. Another component of this burner, which is intended to be
> an efficient natural draft veg oil burner, would be a vapor field.
> Hank sent me some work from Stoddard (? Hank please expound on quien
> el senor es!) in which he was using primitive (alaska / tribal ?) oil
> burners wherein he used crushed IFBs as a wick to increase the surface
> area=combustion efficiency. In this design the lowest, shallowest,
> section could be cast simply or sophisticatedly from egg carton to
> acoustic tile, engineering wise, or could be a tray lip with crushed
> IFB , allowing a determined, restricted/venturi flow over the top.
> I'm planning on doing this in homemade castable, but I could see it
> being simpler to build from, mas o menos, "sagger clay". Coarse, open
> body, low coe, or, sorta, cone 10 bisque. Easiest w/o resorting to
> high tech clay bodies. One additional advantage of these inserts in a
> bourrey kiln would be the ability to simply preheat the burners with a
> kindling fire in the coal chamber of the bourrey. It seems like oil
> benefits from a preheat, especially w/ natural draft. I'll try to
> get sketches up soon.
> Take care,
> Robert
>
>
> Paul Haigh wrote:
>> is there a simple means of burning waste oil/bacon grease/fryolator
>> oil as a supplemental fuel source in my wood kiln? The Bourry box
>> fires pretty well already and gives great ash deposits, but hey- if I
>> have this stuff to burn already- is there a simple way to introduce
>> it without a plate/nozzle burner?
>>
>> Last firing- I could put my bare hand on the wood in the top of the
>> fire box when the chamber was at 2000F- burning very green wood. The
>> snow on the wood took a while to melt in there. If I introduced
>> small amounts on a piece of wood, it would gradually warm and
>> vaporize. The kiln is extremely clean burning, even in reduction, as
>> per Steve Harrison's suggestions.
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
>> subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots2@visi.com
>>
>>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, or change your
subscription settings here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
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