Lili Krakowski on fri 18 jan 08
Just now there have been a couple of mentions of mixing one's own clay
body--clearly by people who never have done it. Given the True Confessions
of the past couple of weeks, even the median age of ClayArters mitigates
against mixing one's own clay bodies.
PLEASE FORGET it!
It is fine to make small batches to get a feel of what is involved. But
unless you are living on a desert island there is no merit in doing it.
1. It is costly, time consuming, and space devouring. It also takes
physical endurance.
2. You need: storage space for sacks of clay and other materials. Storage
space needs to be where the dust, inevitably generated by the process, won't
bother anyone or anything. Mixing space needs to be cleanable--unless you
can work in a remote spot outdoors!
3. You need access to a great deal of water. Not only to mix etc. but to
clean up.
4. You need a large container of some sort. An old bathtub will hold about
250 lbs of slop.
5. Mixing the slop is physically taxing.
6. The best description I know of the process of doing it by hand--i.e.
without mixer-- is in Cardew's Pioneer Pottery.
I have done it. Let me tell you. One goes to supplier and gets sacks of
stuff. One then unloads into a shed or clay mixing area.
One then fills a tub--horse trough or bathtub--at least half full of water.
One then pours the clays slowly into the water. Slow matters, you do not
want to dump a whole bag in. After each bag stir--hoe, shovel--till that
bag has dissolved. Add next.
If you add non-plastic materials--feldspar, silica--you need a separate tub,
and make them into a slurry before adding to the clay mix.
Cardew points out it is important to add the non or less plastics to the
plastics in that order. He also says to make the slop as liquid as possible.
And to use clays of differing particle size.
Having said that, let me add this. 25% of a mixed clay body is water. So,
yes, you pay for shipping the water. Oh, dear, Oh dear!
As though the dry sacks are going to walk to your house!
The ultimate cost of a commercial body is less than what the process of
mixing your own clay will be. Because your time is worth something, the
space you use is costs money....although the heartbreak is priceless! No
this does not apply to the production potters or those who are full timers--
The Mels, Tonies, Davids, Elizabeths on this list....or the Professors like
Bill and Vince. although I expect a some of them get a commercial producer
to mix the body for them. But for the normal, average, median
ClayArter...when all is said and done commercial bodies bought in maximum
discount/or maximum you can store quantity are worth every penny.
Just remember: People like Roy spend endless time designing clay bodies for
every need, but they know how to maintain the identity of the bodies. As
said ever so many times on ClayArt when a material changes or goes off the
market it is a drag writ large to find a proper substitute, and or adjust
recipes. The suppliers of clay bodies---Tucker, Highwater, Standard and
others KNOW how to do this.
And one last caveat: Unless you KNOW you are going to be in your current
space a long long time remember that you will have to move or clean up the
space you use for clay storage and mixing. Lots of luck.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Lee on sun 20 jan 08
On Jan 20, 2008 9:57 AM, David Beumee wrote:
> Dear Lili,
> You're post is well taken, and I am one for whom your knowledge and expearience of clay body making does not apply. I have spent many years developing porcelain and related clay bodies, and I am not constrained by the clay company I work for to reveal my best recipes.
I would recommend John Reeve's articles on porcelain. When I
attended his workshop at NCC in 1993, he provided us with reprints of
his articles on porcelain, two published in G.B. and the third in The
Studio Potter. He placed reprints at Minnesota Clay. I don't know
if they are still available there.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
David Beumee on sun 20 jan 08
Dear Lili,
You're post is well taken, and I am one for whom your knowledge and expearience of clay body making does not apply. I have spent many years developing porcelain and related clay bodies, and I am not constrained by the clay company I work for to reveal my best recipes. I feel that it would be of benefit to the clay community to have some basis of understanding of the materials that may go into the commercial clay bodies that they buy. If porcelain potter's so desire, it is very important to me that they know how to go about making a porcelain or related body themselves. Wet-mixing is of tremendous value in finding a truly workable porcelain body for wheel work. I'm writing the book. God help me find the time!
David Beumee
www.davidbeumee.com
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Lili Krakowski
>
> Just now there have been a couple of mentions of mixing one's own clay
> body--clearly by people who never have done it. Given the True Confessions
> of the past couple of weeks, even the median age of ClayArters mitigates
> against mixing one's own clay bodies.
>
> PLEASE FORGET it!
>
> It is fine to make small batches to get a feel of what is involved. But
> unless you are living on a desert island there is no merit in doing it.
>
> 1. It is costly, time consuming, and space devouring. It also takes
> physical endurance.
>
> 2. You need: storage space for sacks of clay and other materials. Storage
> space needs to be where the dust, inevitably generated by the process, won't
> bother anyone or anything. Mixing space needs to be cleanable--unless you
> can work in a remote spot outdoors!
>
> 3. You need access to a great deal of water. Not only to mix etc. but to
> clean up.
>
> 4. You need a large container of some sort. An old bathtub will hold about
> 250 lbs of slop.
>
> 5. Mixing the slop is physically taxing.
>
> 6. The best description I know of the process of doing it by hand--i.e.
> without mixer-- is in Cardew's Pioneer Pottery.
>
> I have done it. Let me tell you. One goes to supplier and gets sacks of
> stuff. One then unloads into a shed or clay mixing area.
> One then fills a tub--horse trough or bathtub--at least half full of water.
> One then pours the clays slowly into the water. Slow matters, you do not
> want to dump a whole bag in. After each bag stir--hoe, shovel--till that
> bag has dissolved. Add next.
> If you add non-plastic materials--feldspar, silica--you need a separate tub,
> and make them into a slurry before adding to the clay mix.
>
> Cardew points out it is important to add the non or less plastics to the
> plastics in that order. He also says to make the slop as liquid as possible.
> And to use clays of differing particle size.
>
> Having said that, let me add this. 25% of a mixed clay body is water. So,
> yes, you pay for shipping the water. Oh, dear, Oh dear!
> As though the dry sacks are going to walk to your house!
>
> The ultimate cost of a commercial body is less than what the process of
> mixing your own clay will be. Because your time is worth something, the
> space you use is costs money....although the heartbreak is priceless! No
> this does not apply to the production potters or those who are full timers--
> The Mels, Tonies, Davids, Elizabeths on this list....or the Professors like
> Bill and Vince. although I expect a some of them get a commercial producer
> to mix the body for them. But for the normal, average, median
> ClayArter...when all is said and done commercial bodies bought in maximum
> discount/or maximum you can store quantity are worth every penny.
>
> Just remember: People like Roy spend endless time designing clay bodies for
> every need, but they know how to maintain the identity of the bodies. As
> said ever so many times on ClayArt when a material changes or goes off the
> market it is a drag writ large to find a proper substitute, and or adjust
> recipes. The suppliers of clay bodies---Tucker, Highwater, Standard and
> others KNOW how to do this.
>
> And one last caveat: Unless you KNOW you are going to be in your current
> space a long long time remember that you will have to move or clean up the
> space you use for clay storage and mixing. Lots of luck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lili Krakowski
> Be of good courage
>
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>
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Lili Krakowski on sun 7 sep 08
Deborah:
Years ago, when I was much younger, and,having more energy, had
more time, I mixed my own clay body. It was a lot of work, very
nice, a good body, etc. But I no longer do that. I no longer
make that many pots as to make large clay-investment worthwhile,
and now I buy my clay ready made.
FYI they say that 25% of a clay body is water. So if the price
were 40 cents a pound in 50 pound boxes, then it is $.10 water,
and that would be $5 per 50 pounds. If you use 150 pounds you
will have paid $15. Fine. Now assuming you charge nothing for
the labor, the storage, and so on....Get my point?
What is forgotten is that people like Daniel Rhodes taught at
colleges where they had young men eager to show off their muscles
and therefore eager to mix clay, build kilns and so on.
A very fine Quebec potter, Audrey Killoran of Montreal mixed
three bought bodies by wedging them together. This is a good
solution--and I work with two bodies--one white, one red, and mix
them as scrap for my throwing body. When necessary I pug them
together--but I could and would wedge them together.
My suggestion is: that indeed you make and design some clay
bodies to your taste. Good learning experience. But stick to
small--100 lb--batches. When you have what you want then is time
to talk to one of the suppliers who will custom mix bodies for
clients.
Please remember: there is a very limited number of suitable raw
clays from which bodies can be mixed. So you are bound to find a
commercial body that is ideal.
Lili Krakowski
Be of good courage
Lee Love on sun 7 sep 08
The other thing that is possible is to add things to a base clay or
mix different clays together.
In Japan, they frequently rough wedge two or more different kinds
of bagged together or pugmill them to get the clay they want.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
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