Bobbie Fenton on wed 13 feb 08
generation
It's not just you Mark. Unfortunately, as you said - it's not just in ceramics, but anything that is attached to the "w" word (work). I once offered pottery lessons at my shop as I have a lot of teachers sending students here for project work. I also taught at all grade levels as a substitute and may go back to teaching a ceramics and pottery class, at the moment, I'm not teaching. The reason I no longer offer classes in pottery? Once the students realize it takes real WORK and dedication to get good at it - that Patrick Swayze is not going to walk through the door and help them make pottery, and the chances of them making a large jug in the first year are slim to none... once the pain sets in from getting used to using muscles they've never used before and that making pottery is a very dirty, even nasty business at times and not something you show up in heels and nice clothes to do... and - the clincher - that I am not going to clean up after them... Well, after a
couple of lessons - no more students. They realize that like anything worth having - it takes dedication, determination and sacrifice to get any good at it. And, if you decide to make a living at it? Be prepared for extremely long hours, the travel, and giving up most a great deal of time that might have been used pursuing other interests and even then, you likely won't ever get rich at it. You have to be willing to go the extra mile if you want to survive in anything in which the only one you have to depend on (other than the Almighty, of course) to feed you is you - which means making pottery when you don't feel like it, when you're sick, or when the fish are really biting. I could go on and on with this - but I heard it put best this morning on the radio - "True success comes at a price most are not willing to pay - but compared to failure, it's a bargain". Working with your hands has never
been one of the easiest ways to make a living - but from what I've witnessed first hand (and I'm an old farm girl still living rurally around farm kids who you would think should know how to work!) for most of todays generation, it seems downright impossible! Still, giving the devil his due - we are at fault in that we've grown up in the microwave generation - wanting it right now. As it was less trouble to do it yourself than to wait on a child to figure it out and get it done - we haven't exactly done a great service to this generation. As a result, they don't seem to have the problem solving skills we had just a few generations ago thus don't have the skills to see that something needs done, and to do it and do it well; if you don't know how, figure it out or find out how.
Bobbie Fenton
Mississippi Stone Pottery
& Muddbugs Ceramic Shoppe
mark Cortright wrote: After many studio assistants over the years (most from the Ceramics Dept of local college). It
seems after 6 months or so they quickly realize that this functional pottery business is real work
and then fade away. I realize this lack of work ethic is in most of the younger folks now in other
areas as well. But the seniors from college ceramics do not seem to get the work thing. They
realize soon one cannot make a living at ceramic sculpture very easily. Or throwing is what they
like to do best, but not production work after they see the work involved. Over the past twenty
plus years, I look back and only one assistant went on to become a teacher in art, and she came
from Minnesota to work with me after she had her credentials. In the rest of the pool (over 8-10 )
a few are dabbling in clay very part-time. This is a sad state of affairs for the next generation of
functional potters. Here on the west coast art fair scene where I make my living doing juried art
shows, there are few new young upcoming artists in ceramics. Sure, there are tons of
Photographers - (everyone can print digital now). My fellow potters at shows often talk about this
as we age and few as others seem to be filling in the gaps. Is it the schools teaching them or is it
the lack of work ethic or something else? My long-time teacher friends tell me kids (collage level)
are way more needy than say my 70's generation collage era. Something has gone astray.
I feel so fortunate to have learned clay from on-fire Alfreds graduates as well as a school mentor
who had an incredible work ethic. My love for clay started in high school and I really believe it
chose me, not the other way around. Ceramics didn't seem like work for me early on and I feel so
lucky to have been taken down this path for over 35 years. I have not seen this dedication in clay
with the next generation for whatever reason. Sure this is a broad brush I'm painting with but on
a whole I feel this is true (exceptions to be sure). I know there are a lot of teachers on this board -
what are your thoughts on young folks doing the hard work after school is over and starting
careers in clay??
Mark Cortright
www.liscomhillpottery.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
tony clennell on wed 13 feb 08
generation
Mark: I'm afraid it's just you! Todays students work harder, are
smarter, and are making better work than ever before. The work today
compared to the work I was making or was available in the 70's is not
even in the same league. Today's students rock! i teach at Sheridan
College and Utah State University and the students at both places
shame me with their work ethic. I do however try to set the pace. I
wrote an article for Clay Times in 2005 entitled "Art Goes Begging"
that addressed students work ethic and those that think they should
put on a shirt and tie and go get a proper job. the work art students
put in doubles the work of a commerce major but they get dumped on
cause they enjoy what they do and the pay off is less than minimum
wage upon graduation.
last semester if was not unusual for me to arrive at 7:30 am as a grad
student with a key to the door to find a undergrad that had crawled
thru the window, was playing rock and roll, had a ware board full of
pots, a kiln firing, the coffee pot on and when I left that night at
7:30 they were still working. People that love their work loose asense
of time.
I think you're hanging out in the wrong schools.
All the best,
Tony
On Feb 13, 2008 3:26 AM, mark Cortright wrote:
> After many studio assistants over the years (most from the Ceramics Dept of local college). It
> seems after 6 months or so they quickly realize that this functional pottery business is real work
> and then fade away. I realize this lack of work ethic is in most of the younger folks now in other
> areas as well. But the seniors from college ceramics do not seem to get the work thing. They
> realize soon one cannot make a living at ceramic sculpture very easily. Or throwing is what they
> like to do best, but not production work after they see the work involved. Over the past twenty
> plus years, I look back and only one assistant went on to become a teacher in art, and she came
> from Minnesota to work with me after she had her credentials. In the rest of the pool (over 8-10 )
> a few are dabbling in clay very part-time. This is a sad state of affairs for the next generation of
> functional potters. Here on the west coast art fair scene where I make my living doing juried art
> shows, there are few new young upcoming artists in ceramics. Sure, there are tons of
> Photographers - (everyone can print digital now). My fellow potters at shows often talk about this
> as we age and few as others seem to be filling in the gaps. Is it the schools teaching them or is it
> the lack of work ethic or something else? My long-time teacher friends tell me kids (collage level)
> are way more needy than say my 70's generation collage era. Something has gone astray.
> I feel so fortunate to have learned clay from on-fire Alfreds graduates as well as a school mentor
> who had an incredible work ethic. My love for clay started in high school and I really believe it
> chose me, not the other way around. Ceramics didn't seem like work for me early on and I feel so
> lucky to have been taken down this path for over 35 years. I have not seen this dedication in clay
> with the next generation for whatever reason. Sure this is a broad brush I'm painting with but on
> a whole I feel this is true (exceptions to be sure). I know there are a lot of teachers on this board -
> what are your thoughts on young folks doing the hard work after school is over and starting
> careers in clay??
>
> Mark Cortright
> www.liscomhillpottery.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Tim See on wed 13 feb 08
generation
I would love to say its you. It isn't though, so many of the undergrad I was in school with spent more
time with the beers and the weed than they did with clay. The few that put the effort in are still with
clay, in some aspect. The students that drop out or stop after graduation are just dead weight in the
machine anyways. Do we want to drag along potentially lazy unmotivated students that should and
will end up in a horrible 9-5 job? If the whole world of potters can be looked at as a college studio, it
is the overly drunk loudmouth lazy students that bring the group down and tear it apart. As a
potter/artist I don't mind seeing them fall to the side. Similarly in teaching the ones that wont cut
their nails or show up on time and quite leaves me more time with the ones that care and want to
learn. Is a large group more important than a potent one? the potters I see starting out doing their
first shows have incredible talent! Some with relatively few years or some still in school (the ones
sleeping under the table) are doing work that would seem should be 10 years down the road for
them. I wouldn't say that it is fading, but it is more concentrated. Tim See
Melissa Schooley on wed 13 feb 08
generation
Hi Mark;
while I tend to agree with you about the younger generations work ethic, I also think there are other factors at play. Many of these young people will have student loans of up to $20 000.00, some as high as $30 000.00, which is not something that previous generations had. I'm one of these people. I have, however been bustin' my ass for the past 6 years to (finally) make a living with my pots. Were it not for the support of my parents in the form of free studio space and loans to purchase my kiln, or the help of a local potter who I begged to let me work part time for, I don't think I could have made it. It IS a lot of work to do this full time, and it takes time to get things figured out and for $$ to start coming in to pay the bills. When you've got student loan ready to make you cement shoes and send you swimming, with rent to pay and food to buy and hydro, phone bills, etc etc, ... well, you get the point. I've seen many of my collegues who des!
parately wanted to pot full time who simply hit a financial wall. I feel for them. I honestly believe I wouldn't be where I am without the love and support of my family and I am truly blessed in that regard.
Melissa Schooley
Raging Bowl Pottery
www.ragingbowlpottery.com
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Is it just me or is work ethic fading in Ceramics in next
generation
From: mark Cortright <lhp3@LISCOMHILLPOTTERY.COM>
Date: Wed, February 13, 2008 1:26 am
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
After many studio assistants over the years (most from the Ceramics Dept of local college). It
seems after 6 months or so they quickly realize that this functional pottery business is real work
and then fade away. I realize this lack of work ethic is in most of the younger folks now in other
areas as well. But the seniors from college ceramics do not seem to get the work thing. They
realize soon one cannot make a living at ceramic sculpture very easily. Or throwing is what they
like to do best, but not production work after they see the work involved. Over the past twenty
plus years, I look back and only one assistant went on to become a teacher in art, and she came
from Minnesota to work with me after she had her credentials. In the rest of the pool (over 8-10 )
a few are dabbling in clay very part-time. This is a sad state of affairs for the next generation of
functional potters. Here on the west coast art fair scene where I make my living doing juried art
shows, there are few new young upcoming artists in ceramics. Sure, there are tons of
Photographers - (everyone can print digital now). My fellow potters at shows often talk about this
as we age and few as others seem to be filling in the gaps. Is it the schools teaching them or is it
the lack of work ethic or something else? My long-time teacher friends tell me kids (collage level)
are way more needy than say my 70's generation collage era. Something has gone astray.
I feel so fortunate to have learned clay from on-fire Alfreds graduates as well as a school mentor
who had an incredible work ethic. My love for clay started in high school and I really believe it
chose me, not the other way around. Ceramics didn't seem like work for me early on and I feel so
lucky to have been taken down this path for over 35 years. I have not seen this dedication in clay
with the next generation for whatever reason. Sure this is a broad brush I'm painting with but on
a whole I feel this is true (exceptions to be sure). I know there are a lot of teachers on this board -
what are your thoughts on young folks doing the hard work after school is over and starting
careers in clay??
Mark Cortright
www.liscomhillpottery.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Sally Guger on wed 13 feb 08
generation
mark Cortright wrote: what are your thoughts on young folks doing the hard work after school is over and starting careers in clay??
Hi Clayarters:
I find it strange that this something that hadn't occurred to me until Mark brought it up!! I am a high school pottery instructor so I don't see what is happening in colleges right now- but I can't think of any young production potters that I know!
My fellow art teachers are 49 year old and 25 year old females. When I mentioned who else would want to teach the pottery in the high school if I didn't-the youngest who is 2 years out of UW Madison said she'd probably teach it "conceptually."
I think that might be one of the issues. Most art is taught at the content level- which I agree is very important. If there isn't a message, then why make art? But there is still a place for functional pottery in the art world, just as there is a place for hand-made jewelry. I'd bet the jewelry profession has more young people going into it than pottery does. That's just an off the top of my head opinion.
Pottery is hard, physical work that doesn't pay all that well until you've been at it forever and have a well established reputation. I still love it, still have plenty of new ideas, still love the act of throwing a pot. I don't know the answer to why there aren't more young people entering the field. I used to think we were saturated with potters. But look at the "median age of a clayarter."! I wonder what the college level teachers think?
Live, Give, Love
Beyond All Expectation.
Sally Guger
Lakespur Blue Pottery & Sculpture
Lodi, Wisconsin, USA
http://www.saukpr.k12.wi.us/~gugersa/the_art_teachers.htm
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
miriam on wed 13 feb 08
generation
I am not sure if it is just 'youngsters' or people in general who are not
willing to do even the basic things needed to work with clay and/or
do some basic studio work.
I have had women that come to my classes that drop out because I
tell them they will have to cut their finger nails.
Have had men and women who have become down right nasty when
they were told that they had to clean up after themselves... Some of
them, grudgingly, clean up and others stomp out never to return.
It always leaves me wondering, muttering and shaking my head.
pottermim
Shula on thu 14 feb 08
generation
Some years ago, I went to school to learn massage therapy (at night, while I held a high power job during the day. It was my way of relaxing). The first semester, when we learned Swedish massage, we had to cut our nails fairly short. Some people left. Each semesters we had to cut our nails shorter as we learned deeper types of massage. Somewhere during the 2nd or 3rd semester, I learned to throw. So there you are - 2 reasons to have short nails!
Shula
Desert Hot Springs, California USA
>
>I have had women that come to my classes that drop out because I
>> tell them they will have to cut their finger nails.
>>
>> Have had men and women who have become down right nasty when
>> they were told that they had to clean up after themselves... Some of
>> them, grudgingly, clean up and others stomp out never to return.
>>
>> It always leaves me wondering, muttering and shaking my head.
>>
>> pottermim
Doug Trott on thu 14 feb 08
generation
Let 'em spend a few years commuting to a cubicle! Long hours with clay will
seem like a dream job...
vpitelka on thu 14 feb 08
generation
Mark Cortright wrote:
"I read that article back then-I'm not thinking Kids are not working hard
in school-I'm sure they
are especially the passionate ones-that is an protected enviroment after all
. Its after the college
experience-after Grad school-after the art critiques I'm speaking of for the
most part.
I'm a self employed full time potter for 30+ years so I know I can work my
12 hours a day at
anytime day or night-Its just that I find only a special few that choose
this path these days after
they put down the cap and gown."
Mark -
I wouldn't really expect very many of them to choose the full-time studio
potter routine, for the simple reason that it is such hard work. Few people
are cut out for that, even if they love pottery. You have to be
particularly suited to that lifestyle. The ones like you who have stuck
with it long-term are a special breed.
Among my students over the years, I am very proud of those who have gone on
to become full-time potters. There are quite a few, and among the ones you
can currently find online are Susan Smith (www.susansmithclay.com), Kirke
Martin IV (www.kirkemartiniv.com), Alex Solla
(www.arttrail.com/art/Solla.html), and Liz Zlot (www.zlotpotco.com). There
are many more who chose to combine their work in clay with a career in
another field, and I am proud of them as well. I am proud of all the ones
who have kept clay in their lives after graduation.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Ted Neal on thu 14 feb 08
generation
I'm afraid I'm with Tony on this one.
Please, no offense is meant here, but perhaps you need to widen your circles from "the local
ceramics department". It has been my privilege to work with many, many extraordinary young
potters/sculptures who work day in and day out in the studio. I can't even begin to list names
because I'm afraid I would forget many...(Utah State University, Southern Illinois University
Edwardsville and here at Ball State University)
I have students that seem to thrive on 3-5 hours sleep...or just sleep in the studio. Personally I am
in the studio/classroom from 8 AM until 10 PM these days, 6 days a week. (To the dismay of my
very understanding wife and children)
As a couple others have said, I do catch a glimpse of what you say in a general way. I think it is
less about ceramics and more about what is perceived as "work" these days. "Work" happens
behind a desk, over the cell phone or in front of this (blasted) computer. and I believe as you say,
that reality strikes those that have only experience work in this sense when they come to you to
make pots.
However, I do believe you paint with too broad a brush. I think you can find some very hard
working young potters out there.....the question is... how do you find them and how do you
convince them to move near your studio?
Best
Ted Neal
Ball State University
The Goodsons on thu 14 feb 08
generation
Melissa,
What beautiful pots! I am glad that you made it! Your work ethic shows.
"Kid's today..." now that is a phrase that we all heard in our youth-
no matter
what your age. I smile as I remember my father telling me about how far he
had to walk to school. I know for a fact that he hitchhiked home from
college
one time. How he had to oil the "rotary" lawn mower - there was no motor on
his push lawnmower.
Wonderful, amazing stories of perseverance, determination.
I see these same ideals in many youth today. Take a look at a high
school math
book!! Listen to a debate. ( no sneaking off down to the drug store for
a soda
at lunch these days) If you look closely, you can still find young people
with a strong work ethic- they are just using it in a different world.
I too
hope that functional potters can survive in this world.
There actually seems to be more handmade ceramics available now than
when I was a girl, but it is definitely being produced more by part time
potters
and people making pots for enjoyment.
Interesting discussion,
Linda Goodson
Melissa Schooley wrote:
> Hi Mark;
>
> while I tend to agree with you about the younger generations work
> ethic, I also think there are other factors at play. Many of these
> young people will have student loans of up to $20 000.00, some as high
> as $30 000.00, which is not something that previous generations had.
> I'm one of these people. I have, however been bustin' my ass for the
> past 6 years to (finally) make a living with my pots. Were it not for
> the support of my parents in the form of free studio space and loans
> to purchase my kiln, or the help of a local potter who I begged to let
> me work part time for, I don't think I could have made it. It IS a lot
> of work to do this full time, and it takes time to get things figured
> out and for $$ to start coming in to pay the bills. When you've got
> student loan ready to make you cement shoes and send you swimming,
> with rent to pay and food to buy and hydro, phone bills, etc etc, ...
> well, you get the point. I've seen many of my collegues who des!
> parately wanted to pot full time who simply hit a financial wall. I
> feel for them. I honestly believe I wouldn't be where I am without the
> love and support of my family and I am truly blessed in that regard.
>
>
> Melissa Schooley
> Raging Bowl Pottery
> www.ragingbowlpottery.com
>
>
>
Dolita Dohrman on thu 14 feb 08
generation
I find it amusing that our generation is saying the same thing our
parents said about us. It is a classic case of selective amnesia.
Every generation thinks the next generation is going to hell in a
hand-basket. Funny how we aging hippies start conversations with our
kids..."When I was your age...". Good grief, I don't want them to
know what a flake I was at their age! Remember how we were going to
save the world, change the 'establishment'? Think about it...our
generation elected George Bush (I use the term 'elected' loosely),
not once, but twice! We demonstrated against nuclear power and now
we are totally dependent on oil and coal as we drive our SUVs. We
swore there would be no more war and here we are in a war that has
gone on for 5 years. And no one is taking to the streets. I have to
wonder if Tom Brokaw was right, the generation dying off now, those
in their 80s and 90s, was the last great generation. I don't think
our generation has any business pointing fingers at the children we
have raised.
The next generation will do just fine...probably even better. I bet
they will make better pots too!
Dolita
mark Cortright on thu 14 feb 08
generation
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:22:24 -0500, tony clennell wrote:
> Mark: I'm afraid it's just you! Todays students work harder, are
>smarter, and are making better work than ever before. The work today
>compared to the work I was making or was available in the 70's is not
>even in the same league. Today's students rock! i teach at Sheridan
>College and Utah State University and the students at both places
>shame me with their work ethic. I do however try to set the pace. I
>wrote an article for Clay Times in 2005 entitled "Art Goes Begging"
>that addressed students work ethic and those that think they should
>put on a shirt and tie and go get a proper job. the work art students
>put in doubles the work of a commerce major but they get dumped on
>cause they enjoy what they do and the pay off is less than minimum
>wage upon graduation.
>last semester if was not unusual for me to arrive at 7:30 am as a grad
>student with a key to the door to find a undergrad that had crawled
>thru the window, was playing rock and roll, had a ware board full of
>pots, a kiln firing, the coffee pot on and when I left that night at
>7:30 they were still working. People that love their work loose asense
>of time.
>I think you're hanging out in the wrong schools.
>All the best,
>Tony
>
Tony
I read that article back then-I'm not thinking Kids are not working hard in school-I'm sure they
are especially the passionate ones-that is an protected enviroment after all . Its after the college
experience-after Grad school-after the art critiques I'm speaking of for the most part.
I'm a self employed full time potter for 30+ years so I know I can work my 12 hours a day at
anytime day or night-Its just that I find only a special few that choose this path these days after
they put down the cap and gown .
Mark Cortright
www.liscomhillpottery.com
tony clennell on thu 14 feb 08
generation
Mark: i hear ya! Art and Fear is a recommended read. I think though
that we put in the hours because we have ownership in our businesses.
it's hard to expect a person to care like we do if they are just
hourly. I think the stats show that 5% of grads are still in the
business 3 years after graduation. i don't think it's about being lazy
though. i think it has more to do with the pay back for hours put
forward. I'd luv to hire some of the hard workers I've taught but I'd
be embarassed to pay them what I could afford to and that would still
be more than twice what I make.
30 years in the biz-welcome to The Mutual Admiration Society- no fees,
no perks, just my admiration and that and $1.25 will buy you a coffee.
All the best,
Tony
On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 1:06 AM, mark Cortright
wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:22:24 -0500, tony clennell wrote:
>
> > Mark: I'm afraid it's just you! Todays students work harder, are
> >smarter, and are making better work than ever before. The work today
> >compared to the work I was making or was available in the 70's is not
> >even in the same league. Today's students rock! i teach at Sheridan
> >College and Utah State University and the students at both places
> >shame me with their work ethic. I do however try to set the pace. I
> >wrote an article for Clay Times in 2005 entitled "Art Goes Begging"
> >that addressed students work ethic and those that think they should
> >put on a shirt and tie and go get a proper job. the work art students
> >put in doubles the work of a commerce major but they get dumped on
> >cause they enjoy what they do and the pay off is less than minimum
> >wage upon graduation.
> >last semester if was not unusual for me to arrive at 7:30 am as a grad
> >student with a key to the door to find a undergrad that had crawled
> >thru the window, was playing rock and roll, had a ware board full of
> >pots, a kiln firing, the coffee pot on and when I left that night at
> >7:30 they were still working. People that love their work loose asense
> >of time.
> >I think you're hanging out in the wrong schools.
> >All the best,
> >Tony
> >
> Tony
> I read that article back then-I'm not thinking Kids are not working hard in school-I'm sure they
> are especially the passionate ones-that is an protected enviroment after all . Its after the college
> experience-after Grad school-after the art critiques I'm speaking of for the most part.
> I'm a self employed full time potter for 30+ years so I know I can work my 12 hours a day at
> anytime day or night-Its just that I find only a special few that choose this path these days after
> they put down the cap and gown .
> Mark Cortright
> www.liscomhillpottery.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
>
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Charlie Cummings on thu 14 feb 08
generation
Mark,
I think it was the book Art & Fear by David Bayles and Ted Orlando
that quotes ninety-some percent of artists never show again after
their senior exhibition. If you haven't already, you might consider
reading this book. It might help you understand some of the reasons
talented artists leave the profession...and it is a good book for
artists to read anyway.
I would also challenge you to think back to all of the bright-eyed
potential artists you went to school with. I'll bet a good
percentage of them went on to have fulfilling careers in other
fields. (At the same time, there are a lot of folks in ceramics who
defected from some other profession they trained for in college.)
I attended Berea College. Berea has an ceramics apprenticeship
program that is part of the student labor program. Walter Hyleck
started the program in 1970. Over the course of 37 years he trained
literally hundreds of budding potters. I was involved with a project
to track down any of these former students who are still working in
clay professionally. We found around 2 dozen. From the 1970's there
are maybe half a dozen who are still working in clay.
I don't think the choice to work in clay or not has anything to do
with work ethic. I think it is the result of young adults making
informed decisions on the quality of life they would like to
experience. You are right that "only a special few" choose this
path. There are a lot of personal sacrifices that come along with
trying to make a living as a professional artist. Long hours, little
pay, repetitive labor related health issues, lack of health
insurance, wanting to have a family life, and increasing cost of
living all weigh in on the choice. I have a lot of respect for those
who have worked for me and decided not to become professional
artists. Instead of rushing blindly ahead hoping everything would
turn out, they chose a path that was more compatible with the life
they want to live. They learned what the lifestyle is like and made
a decision they felt was right for them.
Charlie Cummings
At 01:06 AM 2/14/2008, you wrote:
>Tony
> I read that article back then-I'm not thinking Kids are not
> working hard in school-I'm sure they
>are especially the passionate ones-that is an protected enviroment
>after all . Its after the college
>experience-after Grad school-after the art critiques I'm speaking of
>for the most part.
>I'm a self employed full time potter for 30+ years so I know I can
>work my 12 hours a day at
>anytime day or night-Its just that I find only a special few that
>choose this path these days after
>they put down the cap and gown .
>Mark Cortright
>www.liscomhillpottery.com
sacredclay on thu 14 feb 08
generation
I've had a few women like that. I teased them about their nails and it
really is funny when they've just had a manicure just before class. i
simply hand them a latex gloves when they whine too much about
distroying their nails. And when they ays, " I can't get it to come out
right!" , I'd simply tease them gently (if i could ever do that!) about
their nails. After awhile, it gets old. and I would just say
bluntly, "It's because of your nails. I can't help you,hun." If one was
going to hit themself in the head really hard with a hammer, one should
expect it to hurt like hell and nothing else. Sigh. At the beginning of
each class sessions, go over the list of studio rules. Remind them that
there's no maid service here. Good luck on that. Kathryn Hughes
I have had women that come to my classes that drop out because I
> tell them they will have to cut their finger nails.
>
> Have had men and women who have become down right nasty when
> they were told that they had to clean up after themselves... Some of
> them, grudgingly, clean up and others stomp out never to return.
>
> It always leaves me wondering, muttering and shaking my head.
>
> pottermim
>
> _
Richard Aerni on fri 15 feb 08
generation
I dunno,
What difference does it make if it is fading or not? Nothing you or I can
do about it, even if we wanted to. I sometimes think that my work ethic is
fading...after 33 years in clay, 29 of it full time, I'm sometimes tired of
it. There are times I think of not doing it...does that make me a slacker?
When I started, part of the attraction of claywork was that it was a "human"
way to work. It involved all aspects of us...mind, body, psyche, in a nice
blend. The people were nice and the schedule was variable. As I progressed
in life, though, the work got longer, sometimes harder, and always was there
looming, even when I was away from the studio. Still, if I had to come into
clay in today's world, after four years in university, with student debt,
and the prospect of grad school, residencies, itinerant studios and the
like, I'm not sure I would have gone for it. Today's young craftspeople
face a daunting prospect of how to make a go of it longterm.
I've met so many people with so much on the ball that I can't believe that
the desire to "do" is lacking. Maybe they just don't want to do what we do,
how we do it. And is that such a bad thing? I know I've had a couple of
studio assistants over the years say that one valuable thing they learned
from me was how hard it was to make a living, and caused them to consider it
in their future plans.
Back from the studio on this holiday eve, having listened to people on the
radio talking about how they're going to spend the long weekend...me, I'm
tired and have to get up early tomorrow and head back to work...same as you
folks too, I would gather...
Best,
Richard Aerni
Rochester, NY
Lee on fri 15 feb 08
generation
I always think of how incredibly lucky I was when I went to
college. Sure, Vietnam was still going on, but my scholarships
covered my first two years of school fully. There was only a small
student defense lone that made up a small part of it.
I worked, but I never had to worry about a huge debit when my
studies were finished. Even when I paid tuition out of pocket, when
I started at the State university, tuiton was only $12.00 a credit
hour! By the end of my studies, tuition was up to $36.00 an hour.
I understand it is much higher now.
Some of my favorite visitors here in Mashiko are Universtiy
students. They are enthusiastic and want to know it all. The guy
I have roomed out to and who is watching my Kintaro is between his
undergrad and his MFA/apprenticeship, whatever he chooses. He works
several jobs and is working at the studio at claycenter and in my
basement.
I remember the hope of my youth. We watched the first daytime
manned rocket launch in kindergarten. I saw men walk on the moon.
We have failed the youth, if we haven't engender in them such dreams.
But I have a sense that things are starting to change. I am
coming back to Minnesota to help them change.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Tochigi Japan
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nought but this: first you heat the water, then you make the
tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Sen No Rikyu
"Let the beauty we love be what we do." - Rumi
Larry Kruzan on fri 15 feb 08
generation
Hi All,
This is a challenging debate on multiple levels - Is the younger generation just not interested in 12-16 hours days for what is at time sub minimum wage? Do we fail to inspire them to emulate what we love to do? Have our universities spent so much time making and teaching teachers that they have failed to make crafts people? Have we spent so much time stroking the self esteem of the next generation that they just think they are "owed" success without paying dues, without work, without sweat?
I see some of this in my own kids and just want to kick them in the pants sometimes and tell them to put their nose to the grindstone.
I've had two interns - one decided after two weeks that this life was NOT for her, was going to study to be a teacher instead - no fire in the belly for teaching - she just saw it as a much easier and surer lifestyle. The whole time she was here she complained about how she was not getting any time to work on her things but each day at quitting time she never stayed to work, never came in early (she had a key and knew she was welcome), never came out on the weekends - she preferred to party with the boyfriend.
The other guy was always late, disappeared for a couple weeks without notice (I was afraid he might have be hurt or something worst), and he wondered why I was upset - after all, he wasn't getting paid. Never put tools back where he got them, left pots setting all over the studio, even though he had a hugh ware-cart for his own use. He left doors unlocked and once even left the kiln shed overhead door open all night.
So, are they worse than we were, probably not overall. Pampered yes, haven't been tested - true. Their true work ethic may not show for years yet - ours didn't.
My parents generation work ethic was shaped by the depression, WWII and, Korea. Ours by Vietnam, the successes and failures. Economic ups and downs, service to others and receiving help when needed.
We did not know (and hopefully never will) the loss that comes from total war like our parents, my dads unit lost 9 out of 10 on d-day (thousands lost on one day - not over 5 years). Hopefully we will never just walk away from a war after shedding so much blood like our generation did in Vietnam - but even that loss shaped our work ethic. "Don't ever give up", "Don't ever quit!" have special meaning to us.
What will shape these kids today? Frankly I don't know and you don't either but it will be important and those who we see as failures today will rise to the occasion just like we did.
Larry Kruzan
----- Original Message -----
From: Jennifer Boyer
Date: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:06
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Is it just me or is work ethic fading in Ceramics in next generation
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Interesting subject . The craft gallery I co-own with 5 other gray
> haired craftspeople is thinking about who to pass it on to as
> our BOD
> shrinks. We don't see many younger craftspeople out there ready to
> take it on. There just aren't as many young full time
> craftspeople in
> our list of 120 exhibitors as there used to be.
>
> Also the Vermont Crafts Council is doing the "Craft History Project"
> in order to get oral histories from the crafts community along with
> an exhibit at the Bennington Museum and other activities. I just got
> interviewed and the guy doing the interviews had a lot to say about
> the interweaving of the 70's craft movement with the whole baby
> boomer / Woodstock generation issue.
>
> Vermont was a real hotbed for artists and craftspeople in the 70's
> when I got started. Our gallery started in 1978 as a coop of 17
> craftspeople in the Montpelier area. Those days for us were filled
> with the feeling that we were inventing our lives just as we wanted,
> that it was necessary to create a new way of living. It felt
> like we
> were a movement that would last forever. Also we were willing to
> forego a boring career with a steady paycheck for a unique lifestyle
> with a creative and self defined quality of life. And we were willing
> to work like dogs for that! Everything around here had coops
> involved: Food Coops, Childcare Coops, Retail Coops, Housing Coops
> (communes). So the way we were going to survive in this new invented
> lifestyle was to band together to do it. But it was hard to
> sustain.....
> I think we had an idealism back then that was bolstered by the
> support of our peers and by the idealism of our generation. We were
> riding a wave that existed across the country. It was a
> movement. It
> gave us courage. I hate to sound so sappy, but it's different now.
>
> I think that today's young people are very hard workers. My 31
> yr old
> daughter slaves away doing computer digital editing in LA CA. My 23
> yr old son is heading down the social work path in inner city
> Chicago. Jessica considered a life in crafts since she is very
> creative and loves to make things, but the pay scale in TODAY'S WORLD
> is way more intimidating than it was in my youth.
>
> I have to admit that I have been a daunting example of what a crafts
> career entails. I'm 56 now and I'm getting tired! The craft show
> routine started driving me nuts so I cut back my marketing to just
> galleries and my web site. The 12 month a year work schedule is
> getting harder to sustain. I have arthritis that makes long
> hours in
> the studio impossible. When I was 30 I would have guessed I'd feel
> this way at 75...
>
> I've started making web sites part time as a way to have some less
> grueling work hours every day. And let me tell you: The web work
> is a
> piece of cake compared to the studio work. The 2 together are making
> a good balance. But a life in crafts is bloody HARD!
>
> SO I'm not willing to say that the world today's young people are
> trying to make a living in is the same as it was for those of us who
> started out in the 70's. I don't blame them for hedging their bets
> with day jobs, while pursuing crafts as a part time activity. In a
> way it makes a lot of sense, given the perspective of a lifetime in
> clay....
> Well there you have it,
>
> Jennifer, remaking a dinnerset that came out of the kiln with some
> kind of glaze issue I have to fix...oh joy....
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2008, at 3:26 AM, mark Cortright wrote:
>
> > My love for clay started in high school and I
> really believe it
> > chose me, not the other way around. Ceramics didn't seem
> like work
> > for me early on and I feel so
> > lucky to have been taken down this path for over 35
> years. I have
> > not seen this dedication in clay
> > with the next generation for whatever reason. Sure this
> is a broad
> > brush I'm painting with but on
> > a whole I feel this is true (exceptions to be sure). I
> know there
> > are a lot of teachers on this board -
> > what are your thoughts on young folks doing the hard work after
> > school is over and starting
> > careers in clay??
> >
> > Mark Cortright
> > www.liscomhillpottery.com
> >
> > _
>
> *****************************
> Jennifer Boyer
> Thistle Hill Pottery
> Montpelier, VT
> http://thistlehillpottery.com
> http://artisanshand.com
> *****************************
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to:
> clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Inge Balch on fri 15 feb 08
generation
You are so right, but who taught/or not the children to behave like
that? At least they cross their legs:-)
Ps, Cone Boxes for the show are coming at a good clip. I will extend the
date to Feb 21 as many have asked if the 16th was a postal date or the
"real" date. We jury on the 22nd.
Inge
Inge Gyrite Balch, MFA
Professor of Art
ibalch@bakeru.edu
785-594-4537
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of James and
Sherron Bowen
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 9:43 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Is it just me or is work ethic fading in Ceramics in next
generation
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dolita Dohrman"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Is it just me or is work ethic fading in Ceramics in next
generation
________________________________________________________________________
______
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Steve Mills on fri 15 feb 08
generation
Two things that come to mind on this subject.
My attitude all my life has been that if you want to achieve something
badly enough, you'll find a way of getting there no matter what, and it
certainly helps if your partner has the same attitude.
Our three have learnt from example; none of them can "cut a corner" to
save their lives!
Steve
A VERY proud parent
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
James and Sherron Bowen on fri 15 feb 08
generation
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dolita Dohrman"
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Is it just me or is work ethic fading in Ceramics in next
generation
Lois Ruben Aronow on fri 15 feb 08
generation
So true, Vince.
I remember someone telling me - I think it was Jeff Oestrich - that they
have seen many a gifted potter leave the clay, strictly because the
lifestyle didn't suit them. it's hard work. It's largely solitary. The pay
is shit.
For one generation to criticize another as "lazy" because they don't want to
peruse that lifestyle, well, it's just wrong. The lifestyle of any
particular career is as important as the work. My husband used to travel 6
months out of the year, but doesn't any longer. He's not lazy - the travel
took a toll on his physical and mental being.
I am in awe of those who fire anagamas. I couldn't even imagine spending
hours chopping wood and stoking a kiln for days and days. This doesn't make
me lazy. The electric kiln suits my lifestyle and my work. Besides, I
couldn't imagine firing once, maybe twice a year.
Knowing what suits your lifestyle and your particular gifts is what will
make lead to success, fulfillment, and creativity.
> Mark -
> I wouldn't really expect very many of them to choose the
> full-time studio potter routine, for the simple reason that
> it is such hard work. Few people are cut out for that, even
> if they love pottery. You have to be particularly suited to
> that lifestyle. The ones like you who have stuck with it
> long-term are a special breed.
>
> Among my students over the years, I am very proud of those
> who have gone on to become full-time potters. There are
> quite a few, and among the ones you can currently find online
> are Susan Smith (www.susansmithclay.com), Kirke Martin IV
> (www.kirkemartiniv.com), Alex Solla
> (www.arttrail.com/art/Solla.html), and Liz Zlot
> (www.zlotpotco.com). There are many more who chose to
> combine their work in clay with a career in another field,
> and I am proud of them as well. I am proud of all the ones
> who have kept clay in their lives after graduation.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Tech University
> vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> ________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages,
> change your subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the
> list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Lois Ruben Aronow on fri 15 feb 08
generation
I think the Clayart generation gap is showing. It reminds me of a thread a
few years back, when people were complaining about how "young people"
dressed at NCECA.
Nonetheless, the way students behave in college is not an indication of how
industrious or productive they will be in the real world. I have a hunch
there are a whole bunch of you guys out there who drank and partied in
college, and maybe even through that first job. Some people are able to
coast and do well; others need to work their asses off just to maintain.
It's not wrong - it's just different.
Years ago, there was an intern that sat outside my office at VH1. I have
many memories of her eating McDonalds at her desk and talking on the phone.
The person she reported to, who was *very* high up in the organization,
couldn't even get her to answer the phone. Her reasoning was that she
wasn't getting paid. Fast forward - she is now a very famous and sought
after publicist and party planner. She owns her own company. (She's also
about 35+ now).
This is not just the domain of the young. I had a friend, mid 40s, very
promising (and to this day, successful) who would spend all look to others
for technical answers, rather than doing the research herself. She hated to
test, and the working methods used were in order to save time and money. It
made it frustrating to be a colleague and friend. On the other hand, her
gifts lay in the marketing and selling of her work - a rare gift most
artists don't possess. Again, it's not wrong - just different.
Sometimes I think it is those who have "paid their dues" who feel like they
can kick back.
..Lo
not enough coffee, and too many parentheses.
Alex Solla on fri 15 feb 08
generation
Thanks for the mention Vince.
As for being full time potters and the whole work ethic thing...
My take on the process of being self employed at ANY job is that the hardest
part is the business end. We all love tossing the mud around but when it comes to dealing with invoices, reconcilling accounts, submitting sales tax, shipping, rounding up all the receipts for expenses... that is the tough part. Making pots is grand fun. If I could hire someone to do the business end, I would. No way on earth we could afford it though!
In terms of work ethic I think there is another connundrum. When you head down the path of self employment and develop a style of work that you're proud of, folks buy it. Sounds good right? Then, 2 years later you want to try some new idea. That takes time and energy away from making the $$ that folks are already willing to throw your way. No sabbaticals when you're self employed. So somewhere in there, you have to find as Mick Casson put it so simply, to make "some and some". Some for you, some for them. Not everyone has that compulsion to keep pushing their own limitations and exploring the possibilities that are out there. Very easy to just make what sells. So keeping one's work vital and lively...That would be the second hardest part of running one's own studio in my opinion.
Just my few pennies worth this morning.
Alex Solla
Cold Springs Studio Pottery
4088 Cold Springs Road
Trumansburg, NY 14886
607-387-4042 voice/fax
web: www.coldspringsstudio.com
blog: http://oohmyheck.blogspot.com/
vpitelka wrote:
Mark Cortright wrote:
"I read that article back then-I'm not thinking Kids are not working hard
in school-I'm sure they
are especially the passionate ones-that is an protected enviroment after all
. Its after the college
experience-after Grad school-after the art critiques I'm speaking of for the
most part.
I'm a self employed full time potter for 30+ years so I know I can work my
12 hours a day at
anytime day or night-Its just that I find only a special few that choose
this path these days after
they put down the cap and gown."
Mark -
I wouldn't really expect very many of them to choose the full-time studio
potter routine, for the simple reason that it is such hard work. Few people
are cut out for that, even if they love pottery. You have to be
particularly suited to that lifestyle. The ones like you who have stuck
with it long-term are a special breed.
Among my students over the years, I am very proud of those who have gone on
to become full-time potters. There are quite a few, and among the ones you
can currently find online are Susan Smith (www.susansmithclay.com), Kirke
Martin IV (www.kirkemartiniv.com), Alex Solla
(www.arttrail.com/art/Solla.html), and Liz Zlot (www.zlotpotco.com). There
are many more who chose to combine their work in clay with a career in
another field, and I am proud of them as well. I am proud of all the ones
who have kept clay in their lives after graduation.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Jennifer Boyer on fri 15 feb 08
generation
Interesting subject . The craft gallery I co-own with 5 other gray
haired craftspeople is thinking about who to pass it on to as our BOD
shrinks. We don't see many younger craftspeople out there ready to
take it on. There just aren't as many young full time craftspeople in
our list of 120 exhibitors as there used to be.
Also the Vermont Crafts Council is doing the "Craft History Project"
in order to get oral histories from the crafts community along with
an exhibit at the Bennington Museum and other activities. I just got
interviewed and the guy doing the interviews had a lot to say about
the interweaving of the 70's craft movement with the whole baby
boomer / Woodstock generation issue.
Vermont was a real hotbed for artists and craftspeople in the 70's
when I got started. Our gallery started in 1978 as a coop of 17
craftspeople in the Montpelier area. Those days for us were filled
with the feeling that we were inventing our lives just as we wanted,
that it was necessary to create a new way of living. It felt like we
were a movement that would last forever. Also we were willing to
forego a boring career with a steady paycheck for a unique lifestyle
with a creative and self defined quality of life. And we were willing
to work like dogs for that! Everything around here had coops
involved: Food Coops, Childcare Coops, Retail Coops, Housing Coops
(communes). So the way we were going to survive in this new invented
lifestyle was to band together to do it. But it was hard to sustain.....
I think we had an idealism back then that was bolstered by the
support of our peers and by the idealism of our generation. We were
riding a wave that existed across the country. It was a movement. It
gave us courage. I hate to sound so sappy, but it's different now.
I think that today's young people are very hard workers. My 31 yr old
daughter slaves away doing computer digital editing in LA CA. My 23
yr old son is heading down the social work path in inner city
Chicago. Jessica considered a life in crafts since she is very
creative and loves to make things, but the pay scale in TODAY'S WORLD
is way more intimidating than it was in my youth.
I have to admit that I have been a daunting example of what a crafts
career entails. I'm 56 now and I'm getting tired! The craft show
routine started driving me nuts so I cut back my marketing to just
galleries and my web site. The 12 month a year work schedule is
getting harder to sustain. I have arthritis that makes long hours in
the studio impossible. When I was 30 I would have guessed I'd feel
this way at 75...
I've started making web sites part time as a way to have some less
grueling work hours every day. And let me tell you: The web work is a
piece of cake compared to the studio work. The 2 together are making
a good balance. But a life in crafts is bloody HARD!
SO I'm not willing to say that the world today's young people are
trying to make a living in is the same as it was for those of us who
started out in the 70's. I don't blame them for hedging their bets
with day jobs, while pursuing crafts as a part time activity. In a
way it makes a lot of sense, given the perspective of a lifetime in
clay....
Well there you have it,
Jennifer, remaking a dinnerset that came out of the kiln with some
kind of glaze issue I have to fix...oh joy....
On Feb 13, 2008, at 3:26 AM, mark Cortright wrote:
> My love for clay started in high school and I really believe it
> chose me, not the other way around. Ceramics didn't seem like work
> for me early on and I feel so
> lucky to have been taken down this path for over 35 years. I have
> not seen this dedication in clay
> with the next generation for whatever reason. Sure this is a broad
> brush I'm painting with but on
> a whole I feel this is true (exceptions to be sure). I know there
> are a lot of teachers on this board -
> what are your thoughts on young folks doing the hard work after
> school is over and starting
> careers in clay??
>
> Mark Cortright
> www.liscomhillpottery.com
>
> _
*****************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
http://artisanshand.com
*****************************
sacredclay on fri 15 feb 08
generation
I remember reading an article about someone moaning about "today's "
youth. He went on to describe how they are lazy and don't respect the
elders and expect everything to be handed to them, and expect others to
do all the hard work, yadda yadda yadda. Sounded like today or at least
within the last thirty yearts. The date of the article? 1432 A.D. Some
things never change. Kathryn Hughes in NC
Kelly Johnston on sat 16 feb 08
generation
Thank-you James!! This was printed in a newspaper I came across a
couple weeks ago, included in a teenagers defence of his generation. I
couldn't find it again to print here, and I'm glad you did!
Kelly in Emerald Qld Australia
slightly nervous as the river rises slowly again
James and Sherron Bowen on sat 16 feb 08
generation
Occasionally you will see on television an old guy from the fifties ranting
about the teenagers then and their clothes "dungarees and t-shirts with
rolled up sleeves", duck tail hair cuts. and it should remind us all that
people are all pretty much the same and they all have the same desires. Each
must establish a personal identity and yet we all want some from of
acceptance and validation from our families and peers. I don't worry about
teenagers and their forms of dress. Heck, some of what I see I would do if I
had the guts. I do worry we are failing to educate them and leave them a fit
place to live.
When I retired I went two years without a comb and a haircut. I only get
haircuts now when I am campaigning or it get to be a nuisance. To each his
own. Very little offends me when it comes to people, except violence, greed
and lying.
JB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly Johnston"
To:
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Is it just me or is work ethic fading in Ceramics in next
generation
Thank-you James!! This was printed in a newspaper I came across a
couple weeks ago, included in a teenagers defence of his generation. I
couldn't find it again to print here, and I'm glad you did!
Kelly in Emerald Qld Australia
slightly nervous as the river rises slowly again
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Jeanie Silver on sat 16 feb 08
generation
Dear Larry
That was a thoughtful and compassionate description...its true each
generation is tested in a different way...Vietnam was our trial by fire-I
hope these kids survive theirs
Jeanie in Pa.
| |
|
