j isaac on mon 3 mar 08
Sorry I guess I should have added more info. It will be my first kiln. I have been throwing for about 1 1/2 yrs.(newbie) I have always gone to studios in the past. Local art centers. I live too far away now, and am producing and selling more, and need a kiln. My problem is knowledge. With these studios some one else always does the kiln work, while I got to play.
My other problem is everytime I see something new....soda, salt, saggar,pit,( so I got a yard to make a pit) raku,( so I baught a big metal trash can) terra sig, ( so I made some up) I think omg I need to try that. My things are getting larger and taller. I keep thinking can I get it taller? By taller right now...I mean 20 inches...lol for those of you who do this regularly. So the ease of electric is appealing, yet I am assuming it's uses are limited. Am I correct? 99% of what I learn about throwing comes from these posts, or mags.
Thanks for any advice you could give.
The Pretend Potter
Jodi
Lois Aronow on mon 3 mar 08
Since you are new at this, and have never fired a kiln, then go with electric. it will give yo a good base as to what to expect from your work, as well as give you a simple and consistent base with which to explore glazes. (I am just assuming you have limited glaze making experience, coming from a studo environment).
I will tell you that you are dead wrong about electric being limiting. some of the best potters out there right now are people who are firing electric. Quite a few of these are potters who have vast experience with gas, salt and wood. The only thing limiting is the imagination.
focus right now on what will help you gain the most experience through immersion - that would be electric.
as for other poetry methods, absolutely try them all, but some types of firing must be done in a teaching setting, like raku and wood (both are communal experiences). Take classes or a workshop to get gas firing experience.
You are so fortunate to be at the beginning of a career, with the luxury of trying everything. don't rush the process. enjoy every step. develop your own voice.
---- j isaac wrote:
> Sorry I guess I should have added more info. It will be my first kiln. I have been throwing for about 1 1/2 yrs.(newbie) I have always gone to studios in the past. Local art centers. I live too far away now, and am producing and selling more, and need a kiln. My problem is knowledge. With these studios some one else always does the kiln work, while I got to play.
> My other problem is everytime I see something new....soda, salt, saggar,pit,( so I got a yard to make a pit) raku,( so I baught a big metal trash can) terra sig, ( so I made some up) I think omg I need to try that. My things are getting larger and taller. I keep thinking can I get it taller? By taller right now...I mean 20 inches...lol for those of you who do this regularly. So the ease of electric is appealing, yet I am assuming it's uses are limited. Am I correct? 99% of what I learn about throwing comes from these posts, or mags.
> Thanks for any advice you could give.
>
>
>
>
>
> The Pretend Potter
> Jodi
>
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Kim Hohlmayer on mon 3 mar 08
j isaac wrote: Sorry I guess I should have added more info. It will be my first kiln. I have been throwing for about 1 1/2 yrs.(newbie) I have always gone to studios in the past. Local art centers. I live too far away now, and am producing and selling more, and need a kiln. My problem is knowledge. With these studios some one else always does the kiln work, while I got to play.
My other problem is everytime I see something new....soda, salt, saggar,pit,( so I got a yard to make a pit) raku,( so I baught a big metal trash can) terra sig, ( so I made some up) I think omg I need to try that. My things are getting larger and taller. I keep thinking can I get it taller? By taller right now...I mean 20 inches...lol for those of you who do this regularly. So the ease of electric is appealing, yet I am assuming it's uses are limited. Am I correct? 99% of what I learn about throwing comes from these posts, or mags.
Thanks for any advice you could give.
The Pretend Potter
Jodi
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Jodi,
Electric is great for bisque firing and now that there are new glazes available you can come pretty close to a reduction look. I would start with an electric kiln that goes to cone 10 to start with. That leaves you a lot of room for experimenting.
Next up, you need to make lots of friends with lots of different kilns. Also offer yourself up as gopher to the kiln master4s of any local art centers. That is how I learned what I know so far. Most people are very happy to trade knowledge for labor!
As for 20 inch pots, I work small so it sounds quite impressive to me and I have been at this for about 20 years.
If you want further info on cone 6 wood firing, let me know and I'll hook you up with a friend who built his own kiln and fires cone 6. Hope it all helps--Kim Hohlmayer
---------------------------------
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Snail Scott on tue 4 mar 08
> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:18:43 -0800
> From: j isaac
>
> Sorry I guess I should have added more info. It will be my first
> kiln. I have been throwing for about 1 1/2 yrs.(newbie) I have always
> gone to studios in the past. Local art centers... I keep thinking can
> I get it taller?...I mean 20 inches...So the ease of electric is
> appealing, yet I am assuming it's uses are limited. Am I correct?
A standard electric kiln will hold work of up to 25"
vertical height. If you want to make stuff in one piece
that's taller than that, you will have to get something
else. Or work in sections that get assembled after firing.
(That's what I do.)
That doesn't mean that gas is necessarily the answer.
Sure, most gas kilns (not all) are larger than most
electric kilns, but step back a bit from the usual
syllogism: I need big, therefore I need gas.
Past 25", you won't be able to just pick up the first
cheap secondhand kiln that crosses your path,
but there are options. L&L, I know, makes a
vertically-expandable kiln with fully powered
additional rings. (Most expandable electrics use
'dead' rings to extend height, which reduces the
maximum temperature rather severely.) You
can also try stacking a short (1- or 2-ring) kiln on top
of a standard three-ring kiln, as long as you can
plug them both in separately and have the power
to run them simultaneously.
Both these options will cost significantly more than
a basic-model electric kiln, but a whole lot less
(thousands less) than a manufactured gas kiln.
And the gas kiln will need an adequate gas
hookup done by a licensed gas fitter. And a shed
would be nice, to protect it from weather. An electric
can go indoors, if it's vented. No chimney needed,
and no permits.
You can probably build a small gas kiln from scratch
for a cost similar to the 'big' electric options above, but
you want a bigger one, right? It could cost thousands
of dollars just to buy the materials. Then, once you've
built it, you'll have to learn to fire it. Unlike an electric
kiln, gas ones aren't 'plug-and-play'. There is a learning
curve of trial and error before you start getting good results
from a new-to-you gas kiln, even for an experienced
person. Do you have anyone who can help you learn
to fire with gas? If not, you may have to hire help until
you've learned more. And check your zoning regs.
Some subdivisions are fussy.
Also, a gas kiln needs constant tending throughout
the firing cycle. If you have a regular day job, that
means a whole day out of your weekend just doing
the firing. Making some work in between kiln checks,
sure, but not with uninterrupted focus, and you can't
just drop everything to take the dog to the vet or run
to the laundromat. You've gotta be there. While I
don't encourage leaving an electric kiln completely
alone to fire, you really don't need to monitor it. Just
be there when you are ready to turn it off, and if you
have a fancy computerized one (still cheaper than
a gas kiln) maybe not even that.
My biggest concern is that you haven't fired a gas
kiln before. Until you have a chance to get some
experience doing that, with several varieties of
gas kiln, I don't recommend getting one as your
first kiln.
Was size the only limitation that concerned you?
Many people fall for the old myth that electric-fired
work is boring or chintzy-looking, without the depth
or richness of a reduction-fired surface. This is
rooted in the days when electric kilns were seen
as the territory of hobbyists who used commercial
low-fire glazes designed to be 'reliable' (i.e. not
capable of variation.) A few things have changed
since then. One: If you do use commercial glazes,
the range of them has increased tremendously,
including some that are truly interesting. There
are also many glazes now made for the ^5-6
temperature ranges. Two: the way you fire your
electric kiln matters! Most of the perceived
differences between gas and electric firing are
really just differences in time, not fuel. Gas kilns
tend to be very well-insulated, and electrics aren't.
So, the effects of slow cooling which come naturally
to a big thick kiln must be deliberately created by
the user of a small, thin-walled kiln. (Notice I
didn't say 'gas' or 'electric'.) If yo do a controlled
cool-down in an electric, you will get the same
richness and textural effects that people associate
with bigger, thicker kilns.
You can't really reduce in an electric kiln, (I won't get
into after-market modifications here) but that's the
only real difference in firing results, and that may
not be as important as you think. An advantage to
electric kilns is the consistency of one firing to the
next. Without the need to constantly tune the air-gas
mixture, and/or damper spacing, you can easily make
each firing reliably match the last. (Kiln 'accidents'
are overrated.) Especially if you plan to do sets of
things, this gives a lot of convenience, and even if
you don't, it makes it easier to really learn the other
variables of your practice, like glaze application.
One proviso: If you are planning to fire above ^8
routinely, an electric kiln will need new elements
more often than if firing lower. I know people who
fire electrically to ^12-13 on a regular basis, but their
bills are huge and they replace their elements a lot.
A gas kiln not designed to hit those temperatures
will fare no better, though most will handle ^10.
I don't take this as a reason to not go electric, just
as a reason to not go to ^10.
Even if you go on to buy or build that gas kiln, you
will still find good use for an electric kiln, and if you
don't, you can sell it easily. A gas kiln, especially one
built from scratch, is tough to get rid of. If you ever
have to move, the electric can be moved with you;
a scratch-built gas kiln will have to be dismantled.
I'm not telling you to not get a gas kiln. Just don't
get it yet.
-Snail
William & Susan Schran User on tue 4 mar 08
On 3/3/08 10:18 AM, "j isaac" wrote:
> Sorry I guess I should have added more info. It will be my first kiln. I
> have been throwing for about 1 1/2 yrs.(newbie) I have always gone to studios
> in the past. Local art centers. I live too far away now, and am producing and
> selling more, and need a kiln. My problem is knowledge. With these studios
> some one else always does the kiln work, while I got to play.
> My other problem is everytime I see something new....soda, salt,
> saggar,pit,( so I got a yard to make a pit) raku,( so I baught a big metal
> trash can) terra sig, ( so I made some up) I think omg I need to try that. My
> things are getting larger and taller. I keep thinking can I get it taller? By
> taller right now...I mean 20 inches...lol for those of you who do this
> regularly. So the ease of electric is appealing, yet I am assuming it's uses
> are limited. Am I correct? 99% of what I learn about throwing comes from these
> posts, or mags.
> Thanks for any advice you could give.
Jodi,
Go with the electric.
Unless you plan the route of raw glazing, you're going to bisque fire your
pots and that's a bit problematic for the beginner.
I'd suggest a 7 cu, ft. kiln to start with, 23" wide X 27" tall. Read
through the archives about what folks have said about the different kiln
manufacturers. Most top loading kilns from the major manufacturers are
relatively comparable - you want the one that will provide good support when
you have a question.
Now, IMHO, this is what you want for upgrades and accessories: direct vent
system (doesn't have to be the same as the kiln manufacturer), APM elements
(they'll cost more, but last way longer), Type "S" thermocouple (again,
costs way more than the supplied type "K", but is more accurate and may
outlive you).
The limitations of the electric are only what you decide are limitations.
Good Luck, Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
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