Lee on fri 4 apr 08
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Nobody Special wrot=
e:
> I have been making pots for a few years, and collecting them for many mo=
re.
> I routinely see mugs priced from about $20-45. Tea bowls seem always t=
o be
> priced at $60-125.
There are some cups lower than that at the site. I noticed them
at $30.00. My mugs and yunomi tend to be about the same price. A
mug without a foot but with a handle takes about the same amount of
time as a yunomi with a trimmed foot.
Tea ceremony bowls are a horse of a different color. Maybe
those are at the higher end of the range you post. Most tea bowls
in the West are made simply as a functional object to enjoy. If
powdered tea is going to be whisked in them, you have to take in
consideration the process of whisking and drinking tea. But it is
rare that tea is whisked in them. I highly recommend it, not only
to learn what a good teabowl is, but also for the health benefits of
drinking powdered tea.
I purchased the domain yunomi.org and will organize
information about tea ware and tea there.
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Dave Finkelnburg on fri 4 apr 08
James,
Interesting question!
It has always been my (admittedly biased) opinion
that a mug is better compared to a yunomi than to a
tea bowl. A yunomi, by the way for those who may not
know, is an everyday Japanese tea cup, has no handle,
but is common and not a tea ceremony item. I don't
know what you call a yunomki in China or Korea but
you'll find the equivalent there, too.
The tea bowl, to me, is a ritual item with a lot
of mystique surrounding it, which explains why it
commands a higher price.
Mugs (and yunomi) are everywhere, are often
produced cheaply (and poorly) and just aren't viewed
as special by enough people to generate the same
market value as tea bowls.
Good potting,
Dave Finkelnburg
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 18:04:30 -0500
From: Nobody Special
The current AKAR show has me thinking about quite a
few things. I have an
honest question about which I thought perhaps some of
you professional
potters could provide insight:
I have been making pots for a few years, and
collecting them for many more.
I routinely see mugs priced from about $20-45. Tea
bowls seem always to be
priced at $60-125. It seems to me that a tea bowl is
just a mug without a
handle, so economically speaking, ceteras paribus,
shouldn't a tea bowl cost
much less than a mug? The handle has to add 5 minutes
to each piece,
introduces another chance for loss, and makes the
piece take up more kiln space.
I have always felt that mugs are the most underpriced
item that a potter
makes, but feel equally that tea bowls are the most
drastically overpriced.
Any thoughts? Thanks.
...James
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Nobody Special on fri 4 apr 08
The current AKAR show has me thinking about quite a few things. I have an
honest question about which I thought perhaps some of you professional
potters could provide insight:
I have been making pots for a few years, and collecting them for many more.
I routinely see mugs priced from about $20-45. Tea bowls seem always to be
priced at $60-125. It seems to me that a tea bowl is just a mug without a
handle, so economically speaking, ceteras paribus, shouldn't a tea bowl cost
much less than a mug? The handle has to add 5 minutes to each piece,
introduces another chance for loss, and makes the piece take up more kiln space.
I have always felt that mugs are the most underpriced item that a potter
makes, but feel equally that tea bowls are the most drastically overpriced.
Any thoughts? Thanks.
...James
William & Susan Schran User on fri 4 apr 08
On 4/4/08 7:04 PM, "Nobody Special" wrote:
> I have always felt that mugs are the most underpriced item that a potter
> makes, but feel equally that tea bowls are the most drastically overpriced.
>
> Any thoughts?
I blame it on the critics...
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Lee on sat 5 apr 08
On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Duff bogen wrote:
> When I started all this hoo-ha by writing "Being Gai-jin and not a
> part of the culture from which Min-gei springs" I
Duff,
I tried to explain earlier. Mingei or folkcraft is not
culture specific. It isn't aping Japanese pots. Mingei is a global
view transcending race and nationality.
If you visited the Mingeikan or Hamada's Sankokan, you
would see. I mentioned previously, that I have visited Hamada's
museum so many times, they don't charge me entrance any longer. On
display is work from China, Mexico, Korea, Spain, Portugal, Africa,
Iran, Austrailia, America, Germany, Greece, Italy, England, Persia and
on & on.
Mingei was inspired by the European Arts & Crafts
moment. It is about human culture and not any specific place.
You can make any kind of cup you please. You just
have to learn how.
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on sat 5 apr 08
On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 7:26 PM, Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery
wrote:
> Hank and Lee,
>
> I can only speak for myself, but I don't drink coffee for its
> nutritional content!
Lynn,
If you are speaking about caffeine content, thin matcha is
about the same as coffee but with less liquid to make you run to the
bathroom while thick matcha, which is almost like a paste is much
higher in caffeine. You can get a buzz much easier from it.
I have one strong cup of coffee every morning and green tea
the rest of the day. I drink matcha once a day and sencha or genmai
cha the rest. Genmai has popped rice in it.
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Steve Mills on sat 5 apr 08
James I agree with you.
To me it seems that the term "Tea Bowl" is a way of elevating the status of the piece by making the connection to Japanese culture, and therefore charging more for what is in essence a short beaker or cup.
I used to make "Tea Bowls" a few years back but I stopped because it is not my culture.
Now I make some handle-less drinking bowls or cups, but because I am not Japanese and am, along with many others, heir to a wonderful European tradition with enough inspiration to keep me going 'till I drop, that is what I call them, and the price is less than a handled mug.
Steve
Bath
UK
Nobody Special wrote:
The current AKAR show has me thinking about quite a few things. I have an
honest question about which I thought perhaps some of you professional
potters could provide insight:
I have been making pots for a few years, and collecting them for many more.
I routinely see mugs priced from about $20-45. Tea bowls seem always to be
priced at $60-125. It seems to me that a tea bowl is just a mug without a
handle, so economically speaking, ceteras paribus, shouldn't a tea bowl cost
much less than a mug? The handle has to add 5 minutes to each piece,
introduces another chance for loss, and makes the piece take up more kiln space.
I have always felt that mugs are the most underpriced item that a potter
makes, but feel equally that tea bowls are the most drastically overpriced.
Any thoughts? Thanks.
....James
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May Luk on sat 5 apr 08
Hello James;
Tea bowl is a work of art and mug is not. It all started with Sen no Rikyu in the late 16 century in Japan. Traditional tea drinking ceremony turned into a form of ritualized theatre for the Shoguns, living in time of peace. A deliberate break with aristocratic Sinophilia. Thanks to Zen dandyism, tea bowl's status is elevated.
Best Regards
May
Kings County
Steve Slatin on sat 5 apr 08
Y'know, Steve, you could always make an unhandled
cup in those proportions (or thereabouts) and call it
a "latte bowl."
The French-derived latte bowl is held at rim and
foot with fingertips, and permits deep inhalation of
the intoxicating aroma of the hot beverage ... likely
coffee and since the French go back to 1066 in the
UK, their stuff is a legitimate part of your culture.
Since a "latte bowl" is a hot new commodity, you
can even charge a few extra bucks for it!
Best -- Steve Slatin
Steve Mills wrote:
James I agree with you.
To me it seems that the term "Tea Bowl" is a way of elevating the status of the piece by making the connection to Japanese culture, and therefore charging more for what is in essence a short beaker or cup.
I used to make "Tea Bowls" a few years back but I stopped because it is not my culture.
Now I make some handle-less drinking bowls or cups, but because I am not Japanese and am, along with many others, heir to a wonderful European tradition with enough inspiration to keep me going 'till I drop, that is what I call them, and the price is less than a handled mug.
Steve
Bath
UK
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Lee on sat 5 apr 08
On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Steve Mills
wrote:
> I used to make "Tea Bowls" a few years back but I stopped because it is=
not my culture.
Steve,
The modern craftsman's great advantage is all the choices he
has. It is also his greatest burden. We have to make self imposed
limitation.
But culture is learned. Mass communications and easy
travel has made the world very small, and has made "human culture" our
legacy.
Best way to learn "tea bowl culture" is to simply whisk
powdered tea in a bowl. No genetic test necessary. ;^)
>
> Now I make some handle-less drinking bowls or cups, but because I am no=
t Japanese and
>am, along with many others, heir to a wonderful European tradition
with enough inspiration to
>keep me going 'till I drop, that is what I call them, and the price
is less than a handled mug.
I make French inspired latte bowls. They are very close
to tea bowls. Actually, originally, all teabowls were found objects.
The most incredible teabowls in Japan, began as Korean rice bowls.
So, you can find latte bowls or small cereal bowls that can work as
matcha bowls. The whole key is simply whisking powdered tea in them
to see how they work.
My main reason I started promotin powdered tea is because
of its health benefits. Because you ingest the leave entirerly,
the antioxidants/polyphenols.
You can see some of the stats here (just back from Merlin's Rest. A
pub on the corner speicalizing in the Isles. There is an American
booth, An English booth (that is where we sat), a Welsh booth, and
Irish booth and a Scottish booth. Jean had bangers and beans, I got
the meat lover's omelet an Steve got Guinness, eggs, real bacon and
soda bread. It was delicious. I wonder if they can get Aberdeen
beef? I will ask. After wimpy stakes in Japan, it was a great joy
to eat Aberdeen with you!
I stopped at Costal Seafoods looking for fish for Japanese
Tataki.Katsuo Bonito, You braise on the outside with chives, but raw
on the inside. The had blue fin and another sashimi grade fish, but
no katsuo. I told them I"d been living in Japan for 8 years and the
only thing cheaper there was fish. The one guy asked me if I liked
Kobe. I said yes. He said their range feed kobe beef was 20% off
today, so I bought a pound to takes. Best steak I have had since
visiting you in Bath!
Info on Kobe beef below:
http://www.coastalseafoods.com/
> We offer Kobe Beef, from Wagyu cattle
> not Black Angus cattle common to the United States. Centuries
> of specialized breeding and feeding techniques have produced a
> genetic line of Wagyu cattle from the Kobe region of Japan that is
> of unmatched quality and world-renowned. Well marbled with a
> higher ratio of polyunsaturated fats producing steaks with amazing
> flavor and tenderness.Available cuts: rib eye, top sirloin, center-cut
> ranch steak and New York strip, tenderloin is available with two
> days advanced notice.
P.S. Sorry for misspelling Svend Bayer's name. I usually write it
correct the first time and then change it because it looks wrong.
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on sat 5 apr 08
On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lee wrote:
> Matcha stats
> You can see some of the stats here
Sorry, forgot the link! The chart below is more complete!
Comparison of Vitamin Content (per 100 grams)
Food source / Vitamin =09 A (IU) =09B1 (mg) =09B2 (mg) =09Niacin C (mg)
Matcha Green Tea =09 16,000 =090.60 =09 1.35 =09 4.0 =0960.0
Sencha Green Tea =09 0 =09 0 =09 0.03 =09 0.1=
=09 4.0
Black Tea =09 0 =09 0 =09 0.01 =09
0.2 =09 0
Oolong Tea =09 0 =09 0 =09 0.03 =09 =
0.1 =09 0
Coffee =09 0 =09 0 =09 0.01 =09
0.3 =09 0
Lemon =09 0 =09 0.04 =09 0.02 =09
0.1 =0945.0
Apple 0 =09 0.01 =090.01 =09
0.1 =09 3.0
Strawberry =09 0 =09 0.02 =09 0.03 =09
0.3 =0980.0
Onion =09 0 =09 0.04 =09 0.01 =09
0.1 =09 7.0
Carrot =09 4,100 =09 0.07 =09 0.05 =
=09
0.9 =09 6.0
Spinach =09 1,700 =09 0.13 =09 0.23 =09 =
0.6 =0965.0
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Hank Murrow on sat 5 apr 08
Dear Lee;
The figures for Sencha are almost identical to those for Matcha if
you simply grind the Sencha to powder and brew it as you would for
Matcha. "Eat the whole Plant!" That is the message in these figures.
Camelia sinensis..... can't beat it.
Cheers, Hank
On Apr 5, 2008, at 12:16 PM, Lee wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 1:45 PM, Lee wrote:
>
>> Matcha stats
>> You can see some of the stats here:
>
>
> Comparison of Vitamin Content (per 100 grams)
> Food source / Vitamin A (IU) B1 (mg) B2 (mg) Niacin C (mg)
>
> Matcha Green Tea 16,000 0.60 1.35 4.0 60.0
> Sencha Green Tea 0 0 0.03 0.1
> 4.0
> Black Tea 0 0 0.01
> 0.2 0
> Oolong Tea 0 0 0.03
> 0.1 0
> Coffee 0 0 0.01
> 0.3 0
>
Lee on sat 5 apr 08
Hank, I will check. I saw mention of the comparisons somewhere. I
can get a small can of matcha for $7.00 at United Noodle.
How do the tastes compare?
I found better data. It is what is in the whole leaf itself: The
green teas all appear pretty close.
Componentes of greentea
tannin caffein aminoacid/protein fat
sugar fiber ash
Gyokuro 10.0 3.5 29.1 4.1
32.7 10.6 6.4
Sencha 13.0 2.3 24.0 4.6
35.2 11.1 5.4
Bancha 11.0 2.0 19.7 4.4
33.5 19.5 5.5
Houjicha 9.5 1.9 18.2 4.8
39.2 18.7 5.5
Matcha 10.0 3.2 30.7 5.3
28.6 10.0 7.4
Oolong 12.5 2.4 19.4 2.8
39.8 12.4 5.3
Black tea 20.0 2.7 20.6 2.5
32.1 10.9 5.2
Vitamins in green tea
A(IU) B1(mg) B2(mg)
Niacin(mg) C(mg) E(mg)
Gyokuro 12,000 0.30 1.16
6.0 110 *
Sencha 7,200 0.35 1.40
4.0 250 65.2
Bancha 7,800 0.25 1.40
5.4 150 *
Houjicha 6,700 0.10 0.82
5.6 44 *
Matcha 16,000 0.60 1.35
4.0 60 28.2
Oolong 8,300 0.13 0.86
5.7 8 *
Black tea 500 0.10 0.10
10.0 0 * % per 100 gram tea
New zusetu shokuhin seibun hyou, researched by tea process and test
division, The Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Japan
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Duff bogen on sat 5 apr 08
Enough already with the leach stuff. (A friend who met him said he was a nice old guy. This is his opinion. It's like that old fake latin quote that states "taste is not a matter for debate" "Taste" like opinion is personal and subjective. Debating either boils down to "I like it" vs. "I don't like it")
When I started all this hoo-ha by writing "Being Gai-jin and not a
part of the culture from which Min-gei springs" I was thinking about a core question of "what pots do I make?" It's like the story about the Guy who asked "Rabbi, do you try to be like Moses?" and the Rabbi replies "No! I try to be more like me. God put Moses here to be Moses and me to be me"
Min-gei rises from a qualturally specific det of ideas. Not having grown up in that culture isn't trying to follow those ideas like tring to be Moses instead of trying to be me.. I'm trying to espouse cultural ignorance but I feel that by appropriating the label of a cultural construct we disrespect the deapth and meaning of those ideas.
I posted this under Mug/Tea-bowl as this seems the same. Can I make Cha-wan. No, but I can make a board of pots, trying to learn from Cha-wan, and haow these cups can infform our dayly ritual of coffee. (Cardew made "morning cups" wit two small handles- it interests me how having two handles keeps you from doing anything else and forces you towards being drinking coffee now.
DRB
Lee wrote:
On Fri, Apr 4, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Nobody Special wrote:
> I have been making pots for a few years, and collecting them for many more.
> I routinely see mugs priced from about $20-45. Tea bowls seem always to be
> priced at $60-125.
There are some cups lower than that at the site. I noticed them
at $30.00. My mugs and yunomi tend to be about the same price. A
mug without a foot but with a handle takes about the same amount of
time as a yunomi with a trimmed foot.
Tea ceremony bowls are a horse of a different color. Maybe
those are at the higher end of the range you post. Most tea bowls
in the West are made simply as a functional object to enjoy. If
powdered tea is going to be whisked in them, you have to take in
consideration the process of whisking and drinking tea. But it is
rare that tea is whisked in them. I highly recommend it, not only
to learn what a good teabowl is, but also for the health benefits of
drinking powdered tea.
I purchased the domain yunomi.org and will organize
information about tea ware and tea there.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-óg ar chul an tI-tIr dlainn trina chéile"-that is, "The
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on sat 5 apr 08
Hank and Lee,
I can only speak for myself, but I don't drink coffee for its
nutritional content!
Lynn
> Dear Lee;
>
> The figures for Sencha are almost identical to those for Matcha if
> you simply grind the Sencha to powder and brew it as you would for
> Matcha. "Eat the whole Plant!" That is the message in these figures.
> Camelia sinensis..... can't beat it.
>
> Cheers, Hank
>
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Eleanor on sun 6 apr 08
> Steve Mills said:
> To me it seems that the term "Tea Bowl" is a way of elevating the
> status of the piece by making the connection to Japanese culture,
> and therefore charging more for what is in essence a short beaker or
> cup.
> I used to make "Tea Bowls" a few years back but I stopped because it
> is not my culture.........
and Steve Slatin said:
> you could always make an unhandled
> cup in those proportions (or thereabouts) and call it
> a "latte bowl."
What are the dimensions of a "latte bowl"?
I have what I think is latte for breakfast every day: a double shot of
coffee, foamed milk, foam and milk added to coffee.
I made a handled cup to fit under both spouts of my espresso machine:
squat, bellied shape, mouth just wide enough. I foam about 1/2 cup
skim milk and foam plus milk just fit into the cup.
Would a latte bowl be my cup minus the handle?
Would a customer at a low end (where I sell) or at a high end (where I
visit) craft sale know a latte bowl when he sees one? Could the
customer tell the difference between a latte bowl and a cereal bowl or
an ice cream bowl?
How many typical customers at a typical craft sale know anything about
the Japanese tea ceremony? Or care?How many customers in a sushi
restaurant know that the tea they are being served is contained in a
yunomi?
I feel like Judy Garland discovering Frank Morgan behind the curtain:
it's Mystique--something like the placebo effect.
As a customer of anything I don't like paying extra for mystique and
as a seller of pots I don't like asking extra for mystique. Perhaps
I'm part of a tiny minority (which may include Steve Mills).
I fully understand that for potters, like auto makers, manufacturers
of "designer" clothing, purveyors of "gourmet" foods, makers of "fine"
furniture, etc. Mystique is an integral and important part of their
products. It allows for higher prices and after all, they are in
business to make money.
In my ideal world mystique doesn't exist, only quality counts. But in
the Real World mystique is there, making buyers and sellers happy and
it isn't going away.
I don't buy mystique but don't worry, I'm a drop in an enormous bucket.
Eleanor Kohler
Centerport, NY
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on sun 6 apr 08
Lee,
I stop at one cup as well. I drink coffee (GOOD coffee) because it is
just so darn delicious!
Lynn
> Lynn,
>
> If you are speaking about caffeine content, thin matcha is
> about the same as coffee but with less liquid to make you run to the
> bathroom while thick matcha, which is almost like a paste is much
> higher in caffeine. You can get a buzz much easier from it.
> I have one strong cup of coffee every morning and green tea
> the rest of the day. I drink matcha once a day and sencha or genmai
> cha the rest. Genmai has popped rice in it.
>
>
Lynn Goodman
Fine Porcelain Pottery
Cell 347-526-9805
www.lynngoodmanporcelain.com
Vince Pitelka on sun 6 apr 08
Mystique-Schmistique. A teabowl is a teabowl is a teabowl and it works
great for eating a small snack of soup or as a sensible bowl of ice cream.
It's a great container for a cup of warm beverage on a cold morning when you
want to absorb some of that heat through your hands. All sorts of small
handle-less cups and tumblers and small vertical-wall bowls have been used
by cultures all over the world. The teabowl has inspired countless Western
potters to make a shape that might not have occurred to them otherwise, and
it is a great shape for exploring form on a small scale, without a handle in
the way. I love good mugs and I like making them, but there are
opportunities in all the variations of size and shape of the teabowl that I
really enjoy. Throwing teabowls off the hump is a liberating experience, in
that it goes quickly and frees you up to take chances and just enjoy the
rhythmic process. Having that fresh teabowl up on a clay pedestal
(literally, not figuratively!), still attached to the mass of the hump, is
an invitation to experiment and alter in subtle or aggressive ways.
There is no damn mystique or classicism or hype in a contemporary handmade
teabowl unless you choose to invest it with such in marketing it as a
maker/seller or in approaching it as a viewer/buyer. It's just a variation
of bowl-cup, and a damned practical one.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
Lee on sun 6 apr 08
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 10:12 AM, Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery
wrote:
> I stop at one cup as well. I drink coffee (GOOD coffee) because it is
> just so darn delicious!
>
After time at the monastery Hokyoji in New Albin Iowa, I
started drinking it very strong because there were 14 40 minute
meditation periods and you didn't want the extra water making you run
to the bathroom all the time.
It might have been why matcha was invented by the Chinese
monks. In China, there was always a pot of hot water for tea in the
meditation room. Meditation and breaks were not scheduled, but the
monks got up to drink tea when ever they became sleepy or need to
stretch their legs.
Green tea is medicine too. No other beverage comes close
to its health qualities. It is one of the reasons the Japanese are
the oldest lived people in the world.
Chocolate and garlic are two other wonder foods.
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on sun 6 apr 08
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 9:58 AM, Eleanor wrote:
> What are the dimensions of a "latte bowl"?
>
Vince,
The are used in France for latte, adults having more
coffee than milk, but the children having more milk than coffee, and
the proportions change as they grow up. After coffee it can be used
for cereal.
If you th drink latte and eat cereal, these functions
will give you the ideal size.
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Lee on sun 6 apr 08
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 11:06 AM, Vince Pitelka wrote:
> Mystique-Schmistique. A teabowl is a teabowl is a teabowl and it works
> great for eating a small snack of soup or as a sensible bowl of ice crea=
m.
That is why we American's make such lousy bowls for powdered tea:
they are better used as soup or ice cream bowls, which are functions
they know very well.
As my teacher Tomoe Katagiri told me, " Make whisked tea
in a tea bowl and you will know if it is good for whisked tea."
I repeat myself! DOH! FFF! : Form
Follows Function
There is no mystique really. Just a tiny bit of lear=
ning.
I wanted to make Jean lunch before taking her to the
airport to fly back to Mashiko. She said, "Could we share a bowl of
tea instead?" I said, "Excellent idea!"
That is how it is normally done, with no rigamarole. See photos
here, including "American" milk frother/tea whisk and metal spoon (my
Japanese bamboo utensils are in my kit at NCC.)
http://matchaman.blogspot.com/
"Tea is nothing but this: First you make the water boil, Then infuse
the tea. Then you drink it properly. That is all you need to know."
--Rikyu
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Steve Mills on sun 6 apr 08
Oh Steve that's a cracker!
Latte Bowl it is, or perhaps a Slatin-Latte-Cuvette!
Take care
Steve M
Bath
UK
Steve Slatin wrote:
Y'know, Steve, you could always make an unhandled
cup in those proportions (or thereabouts) and call it
a "latte bowl."
The French-derived latte bowl is held at rim and
foot with fingertips, and permits deep inhalation of
the intoxicating aroma of the hot beverage ... likely
coffee and since the French go back to 1066 in the
UK, their stuff is a legitimate part of your culture.
Since a "latte bowl" is a hot new commodity, you
can even charge a few extra bucks for it!
Best -- Steve Slatin
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
Lee on sun 6 apr 08
On Sun, Apr 6, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Steve Mills
wrote:
> Oh Steve that's a cracker!
>
> Latte Bowl it is, or perhaps a Slatin-Latte-Cuvette!
If you think the Japanese are particular about their "cultural
assets", don't even think of what the French would say. ;^)
Steve, our friend Genvieve is always correcting me about all
things French (including my first and middle names) and as wells
Tibetan culture. She is a scholar of Tibetan culture. I am simply
a practitioner of Tibetan traditions. ;^)
--=20
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Ta tIr na n-=F3g ar chul an tI=97tIr dlainn trina ch=E9ile"=97that is, "T=
he
land of eternal youth is behind the house, a beautiful land fluent
within itself." -- John O'Donohue
Steve Mills on sun 6 apr 08
Dear Lee,
As you will have seen Steve Slatin made the same suggestion earlier today!
Would you believe I've never had anyone identify a Latte Bowl to me!!
Now THERE'S a gap in my education :-)
Ah well, I must stop walking about with my eyes shut! (to be repeated daily ad infinitum!)
I envy you the Kobe Beef.
Love to Jean.
Take care
Steve
Lee wrote:
Steve,
The modern craftsman's great advantage is all the choices he
has. It is also his greatest burden. We have to make self imposed
limitation.
..............................................................
I make French inspired latte bowls. They are very close
to tea bowls.
.........................................................
My main reason I started promotin powdered tea is because
of its health benefits. Because you ingest the leave entirerly,
the antioxidants/polyphenols.
---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
Lynn Goodman Porcelain Pottery on sun 6 apr 08
> Green tea is medicine too. No other beverage comes close
> to its health qualities. It is one of the reasons the Japanese are
> the oldest lived people in the world.
>
> Chocolate and garlic are two other wonder foods.
>
No argument here.
Lynn
Fred Parker on tue 8 apr 08
On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:39:44 -0500, Lee wrote:
> If you th drink latte and eat cereal, these functions
>will give you the ideal size.
>
Some time back I mentioned on Clayart that I was having huge problems
making mugs that didn't look like hell -- especially their handles. I
was very new to pottery then.
Several Clayarters responded with very good advice, instructions,
illustrations and overall incredible generosity to assist a newbie.
Another Georgia Potter -- a REAL potter -- Mark Issenberg, who I had never
met, even offered to show me if I wanted to visit his studio.
Probably, to his great consternation, I did visit and he spent much time
explaining, demonstrating and generally edifying me re mugs and handles.
He was the potter who gave me the heart-stopping advice that all
I "...needed to do was make 50 of them" and then I would get the hang of,
he said. At the time that seemed about like a completely impossible
task. I would never make that many mugs, I thought. What the hell would
I do with them even if I could"
I returned home.
In a very short time, I made my 50th. I still have it. It looks like
crap, but it's a helluva lot better than number 5 or 12 or 23 or 48. It's
crap compared to number 300 or 400 now. I don't know where they go, but
most end up going away. They all reflect Mark's teachings, but not as
copies of his work. Every one has his imprint in it some way, and that
changes with each batch.
I don't know how potters make the same mugs day after day, year after
year. I can't. But I have noticed something that is very relevant to this
conversation:
As time passes, I find myself focusing more on the way my mug feels much
more than the way it looks. I know this will not sell mugs, but it gives
me great satisfaction.
In parallel to my mug adventure, I am also obsessive about tea bowls.
Tony Clennell started this with his "bourbon cups" which I though was a
great idea because I am something of a fan of the beverage. I made a few
of my own.
They were terrible.
Too small, bad shapes, too thick etc.
But then, my "bourbon cups evolved into guinomi and then yunomi.
Eventually I stopped caring what they were used for. I was much more
interested in the curvature of their sides and the trimming of their
feet. In time, all of that gave way to where I am now -- infatuation with
how they feel in my hands.
No one else on the planet will ever feel the same way about these little
bowls, but as I make them I have concluded that they share MUCH in common
with my mugs. It all goes to how I connect with it. It makes a rat's ass
what is in it -- if anything. The important thing is how I feel about it.
I think the same must be true for tea bowls etc.
It's nice to be at an age when I can focus on what's really important. I
couldn't do that at 30, but now I can. And I am grateful for the insights
that brings.
I am also grateful for all the help I have received. Thanks to you all.
Fred Parker
Angela Davis on wed 9 apr 08
A wonderful post Fred that I fully understand and
can relate to. I am envious of your one on one with
Mark I. Good for you.
Angela Davis
In Homosassa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Parker"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: Mug vs. Tea Bowl
> On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 11:39:44 -0500, Lee wrote:
>
>> If you th drink latte and eat cereal, these functions
>>will give you the ideal size.
>>
>
>
> Some time back I mentioned on Clayart that I was having huge problems
> making mugs that didn't look like hell -- especially their handles. I
> was very new to pottery then.
>
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
>
> --
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> 7:30 AM
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>
Donna Kat on fri 11 apr 08
On Tue, 8 Apr 2008 21:55:19 -0500, Fred Parker wrote:
>But then, my "bourbon cups evolved into guinomi and then yunomi.
>Eventually I stopped caring what they were used for. I was much more
>interested in the curvature of their sides and the trimming of their
>feet. In time, all of that gave way to where I am now -- infatuation with
>how they feel in my hands.
>
>Fred Parker
For me now it is all about how it feels. It may be because I can no longer
see worth crap but I don't think so. My favorite mug is god ugly (Randy's
red in it's worse form of brown and the shape is ... well dull - no just
ugly). It is the one I always go in search of even when I have dozens that
are clean and far nicer to look at. My favorite form is a tea bowl with
enough curve that I can cradle it in my hands. Even my large soup bowls
take this form. Perfect for a cold winter's night. It really is too late
to go throw isn't it...
Donna
Mark Issenberg on fri 11 apr 08
Im signing off Clayart till Monday when I get back from Appalachian Center
for Craft.. My workshop will be Mugs ,Bottles and Bowls.. Of course we will be
working on handles , handles, handles..
I also really like squaring off thrown bowls..And then trimming them.
So, if any of you are looking for something to do in clay this weekend come
and join us..
_www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/_ (http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/)
Elvis is back on the Farm and is out howling at the deer , I think...
Im not happy with it being so cold again this weekend.. I really want to get
my Pachypodiums and Adeniums out of the greenhouse. They are in flower and I
was hoping to get some bugs to help with pollination.. They are great plants
that look super in Hand made Bonsai containers.. Texas Dale has the same bug
I have ,, Caudiciforms in Bonsai pots,, If more of you also like them let us
know and we can start the " Potters for Caudiciforms" group and we can share
seeds and plants.. Kinda like tomatoes
Have a great weekend yall
Mark
Lookout Mountain
VP PC
**************Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.
(http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
Donna Kat on sat 12 apr 08
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:42:08 EDT, Mark Issenberg wrote:
>Im signing off Clayart till Monday when I get back from Appalachian Center
>for Craft.. My workshop will be Mugs ,Bottles and Bowls.. Of course we will be
>working on handles , handles, handles..
>
>I also really like squaring off thrown bowls..And then trimming them.
>
>So, if any of you are looking for something to do in clay this weekend come
>and join us..
>
>_www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/_ (http://www.tntech.edu/craftcenter/)
>
>Elvis is back on the Farm and is out howling at the deer , I think...
>
>Im not happy with it being so cold again this weekend.. I really want to get
>my Pachypodiums and Adeniums out of the greenhouse. They are in flower and I
>was hoping to get some bugs to help with pollination.. They are great plants
>that look super in Hand made Bonsai containers.. Texas Dale has the same bug
>I have ,, Caudiciforms in Bonsai pots,, If more of you also like them let us
>know and we can start the " Potters for Caudiciforms" group and we can share
>seeds and plants.. Kinda like tomatoes
>
>Have a great weekend yall
>
>Mark
>Lookout Mountain
>VP PC
There are many days I wish I lived farther south...
My sister has one of these and it is just truly bizarre looking. I didn't
realize you could grow them from seed - she lives on the other coast so it
never occurred to me to ask for one of the babies. I would think a bonsai
pot would not give enough support...
I don't suppose you could post some pictures?
Donna
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