logan johnson on sun 20 apr 08
Hi Gang,
A former student of mine sent me this . I have a feeling the animal loving folks on Clayart will be as outraged as I was /am. My friend removed the pictures (thank goodness) of the exibit. I just signed the petition & it takes all of two seconds to fill out . There is also a place to write comments. I know this could open up that whole can of worms of "What is art?" & Censorship & all the other subjects along that line but, I personally refuse to regress to the times of the ancient romans where the killing of helpless creatures for entertainment was acceptable. Go hug your puppy or cat & ask yourself if you can ignore the petition.
Have a Good One All !
Logan
It only took a second to sign the online petition, hopefully it helps to ban the "artist" from any future shows.
Kim
THIS WILL TAKE A MINUTE OF YOUR TIME AND WILL SAVE A CREATURE - AND
HOPEFULLY REMOVE THIS SO-CALLED 'ARTIST'!!!
Hi all,
this is a very serious matter...
In the 2007, the 'artist' Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the
street, he tied him to a rope in an art gallery, starving him to death.
For several days, the 'artist' and the visitors of the exhibition have
watched emotionless the shameful 'masterpiece' based on the dog's agony,
until eventually he died.
Does it look like art to you?
But this is not all ... the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of the Central
American decided that the 'installation' was actually art, so that
Guillermo Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the
biennial of 2008.
Let's STOP HIM!!!!!
Click on the following link :
http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition-sign.html
or
http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html or just copy it in your
browser to sign a petion to stop him to do it again, then digit the name
Guillermo Vargas Habacuc to find the petition to sign.
Please do it.
It's free of charge and it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an
innocent creature.
Please also send this e-mail to as many contact as you can... Let's stop
him!!!
If you want to double check all the above informations you can google the
name of the 'artist' to see all I have just said corresponds to truth.
Thank you
Logan Johnson
Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply
719 W Nob Hill Blvd. Ste C
Yakima, WA 98902
509.469.6966
www.audeostudios.com
"Carpe Argillam!!"
Lee on sun 20 apr 08
Snopes provides more information:
http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vargas.asp
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that
can be counted counts." --(Sign hanging in Einstein's office at
Princeton)
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET on sun 20 apr 08
Huh...
Actually, a more interesting installation of sorts, would be to have an
'artist' ( or Gallery Owner, or both ) starving to death in-the-corner.
Where, attendees of the Gallery Opening or subsequent viewings, might
'notice', tho' if merely passing the Artist ( or Gallery Owner, or both )
on the Street, likely they would not.
Better yet, a group of typical Gallery Opening attendees, starving to death
in-the-corner, while the Artist and Gallery owner much drying Celery sticks
and nubby Carrot things and sip box wine and make small talk...ignoring them
every bit as much in a gallery setting, as they would on-the-street.
Just-a-thought...
I think I will submit a proposal to the Gallery around the Corner here, for
just such an installation...or, rather, a succession of all three...
Phil
l v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee"
> Snopes provides more information:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vargas.asp
>
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that
> can be counted counts." --(Sign hanging in Einstein's office at
> Princeton)
logan johnson on sun 20 apr 08
He He He!
That's what I wrote in the comment section on the petition!."The artist should be the subject instead of the dog". I agree the gallery owner should become part of the action! I like the way you think Phil !
Logan
pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: Huh...
Actually, a more interesting installation of sorts, would be to have an
'artist' ( or Gallery Owner, or both ) starving to death in-the-corner.
Where, attendees of the Gallery Opening or subsequent viewings, might
'notice', tho' if merely passing the Artist ( or Gallery Owner, or both )
on the Street, likely they would not.
Better yet, a group of typical Gallery Opening attendees, starving to death
in-the-corner, while the Artist and Gallery owner much drying Celery sticks
and nubby Carrot things and sip box wine and make small talk...ignoring them
every bit as much in a gallery setting, as they would on-the-street.
Just-a-thought...
I think I will submit a proposal to the Gallery around the Corner here, for
just such an installation...or, rather, a succession of all three...
Phil
l v
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee"
> Snopes provides more information:
>
> http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/vargas.asp
>
>
> --
> Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
>
> "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that
> can be counted counts." --(Sign hanging in Einstein's office at
> Princeton)
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Logan Johnson
Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply
719 W Nob Hill Blvd. Ste C
Yakima, WA 98902
509.469.6966
www.audeostudios.com
"Carpe Argillam!!"
Ted Neal on mon 21 apr 08
From what I have read the facts of the fate of this dog are in dispute.
I have read he died on the spot...another claims he was only tied up
during the exhibition and that he was taken off the street and fed
properly by the artist...either way it is bad art...and in poor taste.
Hard to know what to believe on the internet
these days..
If you want to do something you know is a real help to animals..
Take a trip to your local shelter, pound... or call the ASPCA
as ask what you can do in a real, hands on, way...
Thanks
Ted....(and our miniature schnauzer) Milo
have a great day
Kim Hohlmayer on tue 22 apr 08
Logan,
Thank you so much for the heads up on this. Murdering people is not an art form and neither is murdering animals especially in such a cruel manner.
logan johnson wrote:
Hi Gang,
A former student of mine sent me this . I have a feeling the animal loving folks on Clayart will be as outraged as I was /am. My friend removed the pictures (thank goodness) of the exibit. I just signed the petition & it takes all of two seconds to fill out . There is also a place to write comments. I know this could open up that whole can of worms of "What is art?" & Censorship & all the other subjects along that line but, I personally refuse to regress to the times of the ancient romans where the killing of helpless creatures for entertainment was acceptable. Go hug your puppy or cat & ask yourself if you can ignore the petition.
Have a Good One All !
Logan
It only took a second to sign the online petition, hopefully it helps to ban the "artist" from any future shows.
Kim
THIS WILL TAKE A MINUTE OF YOUR TIME AND WILL SAVE A CREATURE - AND
HOPEFULLY REMOVE THIS SO-CALLED 'ARTIST'!!!
Hi all,
this is a very serious matter...
In the 2007, the 'artist' Guillermo Vargas Habacuc, took a dog from the
street, he tied him to a rope in an art gallery, starving him to death.
For several days, the 'artist' and the visitors of the exhibition have
watched emotionless the shameful 'masterpiece' based on the dog's agony,
until eventually he died.
Does it look like art to you?
But this is not all ... the prestigious Visual Arts Biennial of the Central
American decided that the 'installation' was actually art, so that
Guillermo Vargas Habacuc has been invited to repeat his cruel action for the
biennial of 2008.
Let's STOP HIM!!!!!
Click on the following link :
http://www.petitiononline.com/ea6gk/petition-sign.html
or
http://www.petitiononline.com/13031953/petition.html or just copy it in your
browser to sign a petion to stop him to do it again, then digit the name
Guillermo Vargas Habacuc to find the petition to sign.
Please do it.
It's free of charge and it will only take 1 minute to save the life of an
innocent creature.
Please also send this e-mail to as many contact as you can... Let's stop
him!!!
If you want to double check all the above informations you can google the
name of the 'artist' to see all I have just said corresponds to truth.
Thank you
Logan Johnson
Yakima Valley Pottery & Supply
719 W Nob Hill Blvd. Ste C
Yakima, WA 98902
509.469.6966
www.audeostudios.com
"Carpe Argillam!!"
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
---------------------------------
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Square Peg Arts on wed 23 apr 08
Tony,
According to Snopes (www.snopes.com), the artist's point is that we are
outraged by an apparently starving animal placed on display, but most
(especially in the artitst's
society) would simply walk past the same animal, in the same condition if
they saw it on the street.
Cathi Newlin, Angels Camp, Ca
www.SquarePegArts.com
yes, that's a straw in my beer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Ferguson"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: I Can't call this art.....
> I am curious. This is reminiscent of other c r a p in the name of art
> through the years. But I wonder, isn't murdering, ah, cruel any way you
> chalk it up?
>
> And, does anybody know what his reasoning was behind the starvation/Art?
>
> If Art is supposed to mimic life was he perhaps trying to say something
> about people murdering animals, let's say, by the very nature of the
> demand to kill them so you can eat them? Could it be we are so
> desensitized to the violence we enact directly and passively through our
> consumption that he chose to do something to demonstrate what we are doing
> on a perhaps larger scale in some way?
>
> I personally don't agree with his methods yet I am curious about his
> reasons and how they are connected to what he is really saying.
>
> And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and eat
> animals what does that say about us?
>
> Tony Ferguson
>
>
>
> Tony Ferguson
> 315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
> Duluth, MN 55806
> ...where the sky meets the lake...
>
> Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
> fergyart@yahoo.com
> (218) 727-6339
> http://www.tonyferguson.net
>
>
>
>
>
Tony Ferguson on wed 23 apr 08
I am curious. This is reminiscent of other c r a p in the name of art through the years. But I wonder, isn't murdering, ah, cruel any way you chalk it up?
And, does anybody know what his reasoning was behind the starvation/Art?
If Art is supposed to mimic life was he perhaps trying to say something about people murdering animals, let's say, by the very nature of the demand to kill them so you can eat them? Could it be we are so desensitized to the violence we enact directly and passively through our consumption that he chose to do something to demonstrate what we are doing on a perhaps larger scale in some way?
I personally don't agree with his methods yet I am curious about his reasons and how they are connected to what he is really saying.
And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and eat animals what does that say about us?
Tony Ferguson
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
marci Boskie's Mama =^..^= on thu 24 apr 08
Tony Ferguson wrote:
> And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and
> eat animals what does that say about us?
>
That we are omnivores ? :O)
I have a house full ( 8 ) of rescue cats (
two of which we spent a lot of money getting
their congenital eye defects repaired ) ...
and a chihuahua that we found on the side of
the road who got hit by a car and broke his two back legs.. I
also make porcelain cat and dog
jewelry that I donate to raise funds for a friend's
cat rescue non-proft www.doodlebugmanor.com ...
I think this would pretty well qualify me as an animal lover ..
And yet, I eat burgers and chicken and fish ...
.....ooooh...and unborn chickens ...
Yeah ........... I SUCK ! .......................
Marci Blattenberger Boskie's Mama =^..^=
http://www.marciblattenberger.com
marci@ppio.com
Porcelain Painters International Online http://www.ppio.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1393 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 8:12 AM
Paul Haigh on thu 24 apr 08
Tony-
"And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and eat animals
what does that say about us?"
As a hunter, I have incredible respect and love of animals. My aim at the moment of truth is not to inflict suffering, but to have it done as quickly as possible for the game. Watch what happens when coyotes get a deer or wolves get a bison down... I won't go into graphic detail, but they are more concerned with the eating than the killing part.
While conditions in slaughter house operations are sometimes cruel, their purpose is not cruelty. The death of one animal to sustain another, while not strictly necessary for humans, is a fact of nature. It is interesting to note that people often don't think about what happens there, as you imply, because their separation from "the act" somehow sanitizes it and wraps it in plastic.
Tony Ferguson on thu 24 apr 08
I was alluding to the "certain animal" lover status of most of us casted in the general pool of animal rights. It is a shame that the dog appeared to have died for nothing other than the gratification of the aritst.
Tony
"marci Boskie's Mama =^..^=" wrote: Tony Ferguson wrote:
> And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and
> eat animals what does that say about us?
>
That we are omnivores ? :O)
I have a house full ( 8 ) of rescue cats (
two of which we spent a lot of money getting
their congenital eye defects repaired ) ...
and a chihuahua that we found on the side of
the road who got hit by a car and broke his two back legs.. I
also make porcelain cat and dog
jewelry that I donate to raise funds for a friend's
cat rescue non-proft www.doodlebugmanor.com ...
I think this would pretty well qualify me as an animal lover ..
And yet, I eat burgers and chicken and fish ...
.....ooooh...and unborn chickens ...
Yeah ........... I SUCK ! .......................
Marci Blattenberger Boskie's Mama =^..^=
http://www.marciblattenberger.com
marci@ppio.com
Porcelain Painters International Online http://www.ppio.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1393 - Release Date: 4/23/2008 8:12 AM
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Tony Ferguson on thu 24 apr 08
I mis-read it wrong in my earlier post. Perhaps something good will come of the outrage even though I don't agree with his methods.
Tony
Square Peg Arts wrote: Tony,
According to Snopes (www.snopes.com), the artist's point is that we are
outraged by an apparently starving animal placed on display, but most
(especially in the artitst's
society) would simply walk past the same animal, in the same condition if
they saw it on the street.
Cathi Newlin, Angels Camp, Ca
www.SquarePegArts.com
yes, that's a straw in my beer.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Ferguson"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: I Can't call this art.....
> I am curious. This is reminiscent of other c r a p in the name of art
> through the years. But I wonder, isn't murdering, ah, cruel any way you
> chalk it up?
>
> And, does anybody know what his reasoning was behind the starvation/Art?
>
> If Art is supposed to mimic life was he perhaps trying to say something
> about people murdering animals, let's say, by the very nature of the
> demand to kill them so you can eat them? Could it be we are so
> desensitized to the violence we enact directly and passively through our
> consumption that he chose to do something to demonstrate what we are doing
> on a perhaps larger scale in some way?
>
> I personally don't agree with his methods yet I am curious about his
> reasons and how they are connected to what he is really saying.
>
> And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and eat
> animals what does that say about us?
>
> Tony Ferguson
>
>
>
> Tony Ferguson
> 315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
> Duluth, MN 55806
> ...where the sky meets the lake...
>
> Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
> fergyart@yahoo.com
> (218) 727-6339
> http://www.tonyferguson.net
>
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Tony Ferguson on thu 24 apr 08
Paul,
I think I didn't cover all my bases here and I should have.
What I found interesting about it was the outrage at his action as well as my own reaction and initial judgment.
As an artist, I wondered about his motivation to be extreme because he had to know that there would have been an enormous response and I personally find it telling about our culture and our perception of what animals we value and in what context it is ok for a dog to starve where most people will do nothing and yet in the context of taking the dog into the gallery it is now wrong to let the dog starve.
It is the response that I also find interesting--animal lovers casting stones at it as cruel and yet how many "certain" animal lovers eat meat? Isn't killing something cruel? Isn't that suffering if even for a short period of time?
I was trying to point out the hypocrisies in the response as much as the artist was pointing out the hypocrisy of letting dogs starve (as if that was ok in one location) but in the context of gallery, was seen as wrong.
Like the artist (and I don't agree with his particular method I think there are other ways he could have got his message out) the goal of certain works is to cause people to look at themselves or in his case, to look at the culture perhaps.
I think whatever our positions on this it is good for any of us to think about how we reacted and why. Perhaps in some way the death of the dog was not in vain if in some way we evaluate ourselves and culture and consider the value of living things.
Tony F.
Paul Haigh wrote: Tony-
"And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and eat animals
what does that say about us?"
As a hunter, I have incredible respect and love of animals. My aim at the moment of truth is not to inflict suffering, but to have it done as quickly as possible for the game. Watch what happens when coyotes get a deer or wolves get a bison down... I won't go into graphic detail, but they are more concerned with the eating than the killing part.
While conditions in slaughter house operations are sometimes cruel, their purpose is not cruelty. The death of one animal to sustain another, while not strictly necessary for humans, is a fact of nature. It is interesting to note that people often don't think about what happens there, as you imply, because their separation from "the act" somehow sanitizes it and wraps it in plastic.
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Randall Moody on thu 24 apr 08
He could have written a strongly worded op-ed piece or done any number
of things that would make his point that didn't entail needlessly
killing that animal.
"And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and eat
animals what does that say about us?" It says that some of us don't
understand the difference between senselessly killing an animal and
killing an animal for food.
Just to put the correct definition on things. Murder: the crime of
unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.
Since the definition of murder is directed at killing a PERSON and
animals, as much as I love my cat and to a lesser extent my dog,
killing an animal can not by definition be murder.
--
Randall in Atlanta
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Tony Ferguson wrote:
> I mis-read it wrong in my earlier post. Perhaps something good will come of the outrage even though I don't agree with his methods.
>
Doric T. Jemison-Ball ll on thu 24 apr 08
Randall:
My illiterate half breed native American step grandfather had a rule- Never
kill anything you aren't going to eat. It's a good rule.
As to your defination of murder.....why limit it to humans? If KOKO the
gorilla can teach her children how to talk with sign language what more does
she have to do to convince us humans she's a sentient being?
And if humans wipe out entire species, isn't that a form of murder.
Narrow definitions provide the excuse for a wide range of bad behavior. I
eat meat with the best of them. But I don't kill thing for the fun of it or
out of indifference or insensitivity to the impact of my existence if I can
help it. For sure, as one of too many humans on the planet, none of us is
innocent of the havoc we are wreaking.
Doric T. Jemison-Ball ll
BBS-LA
14622 Ventura Blvd. #727
Sherman Oaks, CA 91403
707-884-5067 Voice
707-884-4449 FAX
818-606-6678 CELL
buffalo@bbs-la.com
www.bbs-la.com
"You can always cure the sausage that is too long." Susan Gatherers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Moody"
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: I Can't call this art.....
> He could have written a strongly worded op-ed piece or done any number
> of things that would make his point that didn't entail needlessly
> killing that animal.
>
> "And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and eat
> animals what does that say about us?" It says that some of us don't
> understand the difference between senselessly killing an animal and
> killing an animal for food.
>
> Just to put the correct definition on things. Murder: the crime of
> unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.
>
> Since the definition of murder is directed at killing a PERSON and
> animals, as much as I love my cat and to a lesser extent my dog,
> killing an animal can not by definition be murder.
>
> --
> Randall in Atlanta
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Tony Ferguson wrote:
>> I mis-read it wrong in my earlier post. Perhaps something good will come
>> of the outrage even though I don't agree with his methods.
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
Tony Ferguson on thu 24 apr 08
Randall,
I think he was trying to say that people were passively killing the animals by not taking action? And yes, he could have done something different but would it have had the response or outrage or discussion? I repeat, I don't agree with his methods and isn't part of his message that the animals would have died anyway? Is it more outrageous that he led one dog to the show that dies afterward or the fact that as people are criticizing him more of the starving dogs are dying as we discuss this because people are doing nothing about it?
I also think killing is probably killing no matter how webster or the legal system defines it?
Tony Ferguson
Randall Moody wrote: He could have written a strongly worded op-ed piece or done any number
of things that would make his point that didn't entail needlessly
killing that animal.
"And those of us that are outraged at the "cruelty" to the dog and eat
animals what does that say about us?" It says that some of us don't
understand the difference between senselessly killing an animal and
killing an animal for food.
Just to put the correct definition on things. Murder: the crime of
unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought.
Since the definition of murder is directed at killing a PERSON and
animals, as much as I love my cat and to a lesser extent my dog,
killing an animal can not by definition be murder.
--
Randall in Atlanta
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Tony Ferguson wrote:
> I mis-read it wrong in my earlier post. Perhaps something good will come of the outrage even though I don't agree with his methods.
>
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots2@visi.com
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
Steve Slatin on thu 24 apr 08
Randall --
I can't argue with your preference for
a strongly worded op-ed over a brutal
performance piece, but what are we to
make of the prevalence of offensive
imagery in the genus 'art that makes
you think?'
Yes, this show was vile. The artist
is a Costa Rican; I've lived there
and though I read La Nacion, I must
admit I can't right now remember a
single op-ed that I read in two years.
I remember that starving dog, though,
even though I never saw the exhibit.
(Costa Rica does have an animal cruelty
statute, and I suspect that this guy
deliberately let the dog go to avoid
any legal repercussions. Just my guess.)
Does the fact that the image is vivid
make it art? This brings us back to Damian Hirst
and that group of 'art that makes you
think' artists. He's no Koons, he's got
actual skill (though he may be lazy --
the word is out that his most popular
series of paintings was actually
painted by an assistant he paid a tiny
salary) but his reputation depends
almost entirely on presenting dead
things (sharks, sheep cut in half, etc.)
in varying states. He has a special
interest in death and decay, and he
tried to present a rotting animal
corpse as an installation in some
NYC gallery, but the health authorities
shut him down.
He inspires disgust in modern viewers*
as intense as the sense of dread inspired
by Bruegel's 'Triumph of Death' or sympathy
by Cassat's 'Child's Bath.' Or the El
Grecos in the Prado (I swear, they
must have dozens of them) just tear
you up with pity.
And perhaps that's all that's left of
'high' art now -- the capacity to shock.
Photo of a crucifix in a glass won't
shock 'em? Tell everyone the glass is
full of urine, that'll do the trick!
Can't buy a critic's attention? Announce
that you're using genuine animal dung in
your paintings, there's your press coverage!
Everyone's going for the bling? Pave
diamonds onto a skull. Well, don't *do*
it, tell some cheap hired help to do it.
I've read -- but not confirmed -- that
Hirst sells his 'spot' paintings for
about 3/4 of a million US each. And
he's sold over a thousand of them. Because
artists like Hirst can get larger percentages
of sale prices than other artists, you've
got to figure he likely banked a half of a
billion on the series. For paintings he
didn't paint, but signed.
It makes you admire the artistic integrity
of Elmyr de Hory.
Steve Slatin
*that would be normal people, not art
critics and so forth.
--- On Thu, 4/24/08, Randall Moody wrote:
> From: Randall Moody
> Subject: Re: I Can't call this art.....
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Thursday, April 24, 2008, 8:02 AM
> He could have written a strongly worded op-ed piece or done
> any number
> of things that would make his point that didn't entail
> needlessly
> killing that animal.
>
> "And those of us that are outraged at the
> "cruelty" to the dog and eat
> animals what does that say about us?" It says that
> some of us don't
> understand the difference between senselessly killing an
> animal and
> killing an animal for food.
>
> Just to put the correct definition on things. Murder: the
> crime of
> unlawfully killing a person especially with malice
> aforethought.
>
> Since the definition of murder is directed at killing a
> PERSON and
> animals, as much as I love my cat and to a lesser extent my
> dog,
> killing an animal can not by definition be murder.
>
> --
> Randall in Atlanta
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Tony Ferguson
> wrote:
> > I mis-read it wrong in my earlier post. Perhaps
> something good will come of the outrage even though I
> don't agree with his methods.
> >
>
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Randall Moody on thu 24 apr 08
While I agree with the "don't kill what you aren't going to eat", I
don't think using the correct definition for a word is "narrowing" or
"limiting" it. It is simply using the correct definition of the word.
Murder by definition pertains to humans not to animals. This doesn't
make what the "artist" (and I use that term very loosely) did any less
heinous. Even if humans wipe out an entire species it is not murder
unless that species is also human in which case your point is moot as
we would have wiped ourselves out and there would be nobody around to
complain.
Randall in Atlanta
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:33 PM, Doric T. Jemison-Ball ll
wrote:
> Randall:
>
> My illiterate half breed native American step grandfather had a rule- Never
> kill anything you aren't going to eat. It's a good rule.
>
> As to your defination of murder.....why limit it to humans? If KOKO the
> gorilla can teach her children how to talk with sign language what more
> does
> she have to do to convince us humans she's a sentient being?
>
> And if humans wipe out entire species, isn't that a form of murder.
>
> Narrow definitions provide the excuse for a wide range of bad behavior. I
> eat meat with the best of them. But I don't kill thing for the fun of it or
> out of indifference or insensitivity to the impact of my existence if I can
> help it. For sure, as one of too many humans on the planet, none of us is
> innocent of the havoc we are wreaking.
Randall Moody on fri 25 apr 08
Tony,
Oh, I think we all get what he was trying to say. It isn't that deep
of a statement. My issue is that killing something to protest killing
something is a hypocritical way of making your statement. I think that
it is more outrageous that not only did the artist starve the dog to
death but that the gallery owner allowed it and none of the patrons
stopped it.
Notice I didn't take issue with the usage of the word "killing" but
rather the usage of the word "murder". All murder is killing but not
all killing is murder.
--
Randall in Atlanta
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Tony Ferguson wrote:
> Randall,
>
> I think he was trying to say that people were passively killing the animals by not taking action? And yes, he could have done something different but would it have had the response or outrage or discussion? I repeat, I don't agree with his methods and isn't part of his message that the animals would have died anyway? Is it more outrageous that he led one dog to the show that dies afterward or the fact that as people are criticizing him more of the starving dogs are dying as we discuss this because people are doing nothing about it?
>
> I also think killing is probably killing no matter how webster or the legal system defines it?
>
> Tony Ferguson
Lee on sun 27 apr 08
On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 7:16 AM, Randall Moody wrote:
> Notice I didn't take issue with the usage of the word "killing" but
> rather the usage of the word "murder". All murder is killing but not
> all killing is murder.
Murder is a religious concept. Killing is an objective
concept. How these terms are applied varies from culture to culture.
All we need to do to get a taste of this is look at certain current
Bill Of Rights/Constitution related political issues.
--
Lee, a Mashiko potter in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that
can be counted counts." --(Sign hanging in Einstein's office at
Princeton)
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