Keba M Hitzeman on mon 28 apr 08
Regarding the loss of the archives: my techie husband says that there are
ways to convert the information to text files...is anyone familiar with
doing that? We didn't have a chance to talk about how to go about doing
that (he had to leave for school).
If we could get a group of people together to do that, I would be willing to
volunteer my time to help. I doubt any of us have the time to do the whole
thing, but if a group got together, we could get a lot more done.
Suggestions? Volunteers?
Keba
====================================
Keba Hitzeman
Dayton OH
Spanish - http://keba.hitzeman.com
Clay - http://yellowroomarts.blogspot.com, http://yellowroomarts.etsy.com
Coffee - coffee@enigma22.com
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand
ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Jeff Gieringer
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 08:47
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: : if i am pissy
Paulette said:
"I do belong to one web-based forum, and
it hardly worth the effort in this particular case; I find it
amazingly time-consuming to follow the threads, and be on the
internet when I want to read and post..."
I belong to 2 yahoo groups and receive emails of each and every post just
like on Clayart. If I see a subject that I have great interest in, I can
sign on and read the entire thread, a benefit that I actually like. I
understand that I am a newbie on Clayart (18 months ago) but the great loss
with the changes will be the archives. I have used them extensively over
the
past 18 months. I just don't understand all the whining over the format,
when in all reality, can be set up just like Clayart. I appreciate Mel's
and all moderators of any of the groups time, as I know I couldn't do it.
A
special group indeed!
Jeff Gieringer
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paulette Carr"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 2:30 AM
> Subject: Re: : if i am pissy
>
>
>> Mel Jacobson wrote:
>>
>> "listserv is gone...as will be the archives.
>> i posted that two months ago.
>> we have 11 months to mine the archives.
>> when the listserv software is de/active, everything
>> goes with it.
>> that is a fact.
>> i do not make those decisions.
>> the only thing i have been privy to is letting me
>> know what is going on.
>> they want this new system to be good. it is not a
>> plot against potters. the black helicopters are not flying"
>>
>>
>> Mel,
>>
>> I am sure that we will adapt to the new formats, BUT the greatest
>> loss will be access to the archives. That is where I have found the
>> real gold since I joined many moons ago. You can alert us to mine
>> this (as I have done over the years), but I do not know what
>> questions I will have in the future, and cannot anticipate what
>> information I will need over time. More's the pity... it's like
>> loosing the Library of Congress. I wonder if there is anyway to
>> transfer the archives for storage until someone figures out how to
>> resurrect them... this particular loss/change is not for the better.
>>
>> I will withhold judgment... I do belong to one web-based forum, and
>> it hardly worth the effort in this particular case; I find it
>> amazingly time-consuming to follow the threads, and be on the
>> internet when I want to read and post... so much jargon, and so
>> little thought in the posts.... talk about inane, and off the
>> cuff!!! Hopefully this will be different and better. I know that I
>> will figure this out - at least I will wait to see how it all shakes
>> out.
>>
>> So before you get defensive - uh, "pissy", please let me tell you
>> personally, that I am one of many voices who is telling you how
>> wonderful this has been, in spite of the outtages and spam and posts
>> that I deleted, and how much I appreciate you and all the moderators
>> who give so freely of your time and energy, and all who participated,
>> answering my questions, and even questions that I did not know I had
>> until you answered them for someone else... and how much I have
>> learned...
>>
>> Still the loss of the archives is a grieveous thing!
>>
>> My best,
>> Paulette Carr
>>
>> Paulette Carr Studio
>> St. Louis, MO
>> Member, Potters Council
>>
>>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
>> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
>> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
>> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots2@visi.com
>>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Christine Campbell on mon 28 apr 08
At the Potters Council morning breakfast
meeting at NCECA we had a round table
discussion about the need for a new basic
information area that would be easy to use
and maybe even allow updating or editing.
This discussion morphed into thoughts
about mining the archives for the basic
information.
One idea we loved was the idea of asking
ALL OF YOU to help by researching one
or more questions and finding your best answer
or someone else's best answer and storing it on
your computer until we can decide how to
best present it.
And ... like hooking up thousands of small
computers to make one super computer ... we
thought that getting thousands of clayarters to
answer just one question might make short work
of a huge job.
We will definitely get back to you all when we
have some plans set, but together we can work
on this and make it better than ever and hopefully
much less bulky and easier to search.
Yeah, Potters Council!!!
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Board Member - Potters Council
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Keba M Hitzeman on mon 28 apr 08
I would personally be very hesitant to look for the "best" answer to a
question (if I am reading the idea correctly) - would that discard the rest
of the answers that were posted? As a teacher, I know that what I
understand is not necessarily what you will understand.
Plus, there are so many levels of expertise here. I wouldn't even know
where to begin on finding a "best" answer. I just don't know that much yet!
Keba
====================================
Keba Hitzeman
Dayton OH
Spanish - http://keba.hitzeman.com
Clay - http://yellowroomarts.blogspot.com, http://yellowroomarts.etsy.com
Coffee - coffee@enigma22.com
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand
ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Christine
Campbell
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:49
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Saving the Archives
At the Potters Council morning breakfast
meeting at NCECA we had a round table
discussion about the need for a new basic
information area that would be easy to use
and maybe even allow updating or editing.
This discussion morphed into thoughts
about mining the archives for the basic
information.
One idea we loved was the idea of asking
ALL OF YOU to help by researching one
or more questions and finding your best answer
or someone else's best answer and storing it on
your computer until we can decide how to
best present it.
And ... like hooking up thousands of small
computers to make one super computer ... we
thought that getting thousands of clayarters to
answer just one question might make short work
of a huge job.
We will definitely get back to you all when we
have some plans set, but together we can work
on this and make it better than ever and hopefully
much less bulky and easier to search.
Yeah, Potters Council!!!
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Board Member - Potters Council
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
Square Peg Arts on mon 28 apr 08
My husband may be able to write a utility to do that.
He's written little programs for me in the past to do things like take
online guestbook entries and convert them into text files.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keba M Hitzeman"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 6:39 AM
Subject: Saving the archives
> Regarding the loss of the archives: my techie husband says that there are
> ways to convert the information to text files...is anyone familiar with
> doing that? We didn't have a chance to talk about how to go about doing
> that (he had to leave for school).
>
> If we could get a group of people together to do that, I would be willing
> to
> volunteer my time to help. I doubt any of us have the time to do the
> whole
> thing, but if a group got together, we could get a lot more done.
>
> Suggestions? Volunteers?
>
> Keba
>
>
>
>
> ====================================
>
> Keba Hitzeman
> Dayton OH
>
> Spanish - http://keba.hitzeman.com
> Clay - http://yellowroomarts.blogspot.com, http://yellowroomarts.etsy.com
> Coffee - coffee@enigma22.com
>
> People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand
> ready to do violence on their behalf.
> George Orwell
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Gieringer
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 08:47
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: : if i am pissy
>
> Paulette said:
>
> "I do belong to one web-based forum, and
> it hardly worth the effort in this particular case; I find it
> amazingly time-consuming to follow the threads, and be on the
> internet when I want to read and post..."
>
> I belong to 2 yahoo groups and receive emails of each and every post just
> like on Clayart. If I see a subject that I have great interest in, I can
> sign on and read the entire thread, a benefit that I actually like. I
> understand that I am a newbie on Clayart (18 months ago) but the great
> loss
> with the changes will be the archives. I have used them extensively over
> the
> past 18 months. I just don't understand all the whining over the format,
> when in all reality, can be set up just like Clayart. I appreciate Mel's
> and all moderators of any of the groups time, as I know I couldn't do it.
> A
> special group indeed!
>
> Jeff Gieringer
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Paulette Carr"
>> To:
>> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 2:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: : if i am pissy
>>
>>
>>> Mel Jacobson wrote:
>>>
>>> "listserv is gone...as will be the archives.
>>> i posted that two months ago.
>>> we have 11 months to mine the archives.
>>> when the listserv software is de/active, everything
>>> goes with it.
>>> that is a fact.
>>> i do not make those decisions.
>>> the only thing i have been privy to is letting me
>>> know what is going on.
>>> they want this new system to be good. it is not a
>>> plot against potters. the black helicopters are not flying"
>>>
>>>
>>> Mel,
>>>
>>> I am sure that we will adapt to the new formats, BUT the greatest
>>> loss will be access to the archives. That is where I have found the
>>> real gold since I joined many moons ago. You can alert us to mine
>>> this (as I have done over the years), but I do not know what
>>> questions I will have in the future, and cannot anticipate what
>>> information I will need over time. More's the pity... it's like
>>> loosing the Library of Congress. I wonder if there is anyway to
>>> transfer the archives for storage until someone figures out how to
>>> resurrect them... this particular loss/change is not for the better.
>>>
>>> I will withhold judgment... I do belong to one web-based forum, and
>>> it hardly worth the effort in this particular case; I find it
>>> amazingly time-consuming to follow the threads, and be on the
>>> internet when I want to read and post... so much jargon, and so
>>> little thought in the posts.... talk about inane, and off the
>>> cuff!!! Hopefully this will be different and better. I know that I
>>> will figure this out - at least I will wait to see how it all shakes
>>> out.
>>>
>>> So before you get defensive - uh, "pissy", please let me tell you
>>> personally, that I am one of many voices who is telling you how
>>> wonderful this has been, in spite of the outtages and spam and posts
>>> that I deleted, and how much I appreciate you and all the moderators
>>> who give so freely of your time and energy, and all who participated,
>>> answering my questions, and even questions that I did not know I had
>>> until you answered them for someone else... and how much I have
>>> learned...
>>>
>>> Still the loss of the archives is a grieveous thing!
>>>
>>> My best,
>>> Paulette Carr
>>>
>>> Paulette Carr Studio
>>> St. Louis, MO
>>> Member, Potters Council
>>>
>>>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
>>> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>>
>>> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
>>> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
>>> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>>>
>>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>>> melpots2@visi.com
>>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
> http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
>
Cathi Newlin, Angels Camp, Ca
www.SquarePegArts.com
yes, that's a straw in my beer.
James and Sherron Bowen on mon 28 apr 08
Did any of you look into Lee's information about Google groups?
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christine Campbell"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:49 AM
Subject: Saving the Archives
Randall Moody on mon 28 apr 08
Maybe a "WikiPottery" type of thing. That sounds like a good idea.
--
Randall in Atlanta
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Christine Campbell
wrote:
> At the Potters Council morning breakfast
> meeting at NCECA we had a round table
> discussion about the need for a new basic
> information area that would be easy to use
> and maybe even allow updating or editing.
Taylor Hendrix on mon 28 apr 08
Chris and PC:
You can count me in as one of the volunteers. Just call me a bulldog
of the Archives, tell me what do do, and I'll do it. Get the egg heads
together to come up with a thorough scheme then set us bulldogs loose.
Some of us have actually keep large chunks of the archives on our
local machines. I'm not one, but they are out there...Don.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Christine Campbell
wrote:
> At the Potters Council morning breakfast
> meeting at NCECA
...
> This discussion morphed into thoughts
> about mining the archives for the basic
> information.
>
> One idea we loved was the idea of asking
> ALL OF YOU to help by researching one
> or more questions and finding your best answer
> or someone else's best answer and storing it on
> your computer until we can decide how to
> best present it.
>
> And ... like hooking up thousands of small
> computers to make one super computer ... we
> thought that getting thousands of clayarters to
> answer just one question might make short work
> of a huge job.
>
> We will definitely get back to you all when we
> have some plans set, but together we can work
> on this and make it better than ever and hopefully
> much less bulky and easier to search.
...
Gail Barnett on mon 28 apr 08
Chris,
I would miss the variety of answers that you get from a single
question. It is the pool of answers to a particular question that
is of great value! That is the beauty of Clayart. That is how I
learn. I hope we can save the archives.
Gail Barnett
On Apr 28, 2008, at 10:49 AM, Christine Campbell wrote:
> At the Potters Council morning breakfast
> meeting at NCECA we had a round table
> discussion about the need for a new basic
> information area that would be easy to use
> and maybe even allow updating or editing.
>
> This discussion morphed into thoughts
> about mining the archives for the basic
> information.
>
> One idea we loved was the idea of asking
> ALL OF YOU to help by researching one
> or more questions and finding your best answer
> or someone else's best answer and storing it on
> your computer until we can decide how to
> best present it.
>
> And ... like hooking up thousands of small
> computers to make one super computer ... we
> thought that getting thousands of clayarters to
> answer just one question might make short work
> of a huge job.
>
> We will definitely get back to you all when we
> have some plans set, but together we can work
> on this and make it better than ever and hopefully
> much less bulky and easier to search.
>
> Yeah, Potters Council!!!
>
> Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
> Board Member - Potters Council
>
> --
> Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
> 9417 Koupela Drive
> Raleigh NC 27615-2233
>
> Designs in Colored Porcelain
>
> 1-800-652-1008
> Fax : 919-676-2062
> website: www.ccpottery.com
> wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
> subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here: http://
> www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
Steve Slatin on mon 28 apr 08
Any way that we do this from the user side
of the interface will be kludgy. If ACERS
wants to file off the entire database to
some kind of storage, that would be ideal.
IF the format of the database is distributable
(and I don't know how it's stored, so who
knows if it's legal to distribute or not)
then filing it off 'raw' isn't such a bad
idea, though it may be many gigabytes in size.
(Databases are notorious wasters of storage
space.)
I doubt that the entire archive would exceed
a single DVD's storage capacity if converted
to raw text (that's just a guess, but 4.5
gigs is a good capacity estimate, and
at maybe 3000 bytes per double spaced page
of text (nominally it's 2000, but there's
lots of 'dead' space in storage) that's about
1.5 million pages of raw text.
I guess ClayArt has been around for something
like 15 years or less, so it'd be 100,000 pages
of text per year, or 273 pages a day. Can you
read that much, day in and out?
Depending on your edition, a Christian bible
runs somewhere on the order of 900 to 3000 pages.
Could you read your family bible in 10 days? Do you
read all of ClayArt every day?
If lots of people want it, maybe ACERS can be
convinced to make it available for a reasonable
fee. Bear in mind, though, that the easiest
(and probably least expensive) solution, copying
the entire database as a database take the most
space, is least accessible to the casual user,
and raises the most copyright issues (because
of the database format issues).
For myself, I find the archives less useful now
than they were to me a few years ago. Glaze
recipes are being repeated on other sites, kiln
issues arise anew each month or so, and the more
bombastic of our members have kindly repeated
themselves over and over for our mutual
delectation. How many times do you need to
hear that stuff repeated?
Just my two groats -- Steve Slatin
--- On Mon, 4/28/08, Keba M Hitzeman wrote:
> From: Keba M Hitzeman
> Subject: Saving the archives
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Monday, April 28, 2008, 6:39 AM
> Regarding the loss of the archives: my techie husband says
> that there are
> ways to convert the information to text files...is anyone
> familiar with
> doing that? We didn't have a chance to talk about how
> to go about doing
> that (he had to leave for school).
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
David Martin Hershey on mon 28 apr 08
Hi Chris and All,
I'm back! Couldn't seem to get clayart to work right
after the Great ClayArt Meltdown late last year.
But I've been browsing the list on Yahoo from time
to time, and am totally bummed re loosing the archives.
I don't know the specifics on the ACerS side,
but it sure seems to me a bit like
BURNING THE LIBRARY!
The archives are an incomparable compendium of
real-world information. Their loss would be a giant
loss to the whole ceramics world.
It would be a very simple matter to put the complete
archives on a searchable disk. Or at least an install
disk, searchable on your computer.
I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Does ACerS even comprehend what they own?
Best, DMH
DMH Studio + Design
2629 Manhattan Ave # 137
Hermosa Beach CA USA
90254-2447
310.379.6890
dmh at dmhstudio dot com
http://www.dmhstudio.com
http://www.dmhstudio.etsy.com
Wendy Peck on mon 28 apr 08
Hi all,
I don't post much, as I am still on the absorbing end of the knowledge path
for almost all subjects. However, I do have some computer skills and time
and would be happy to be on a team working to save the archives. If someone
has started a list, please add me.
I'm a huge archive user, and would probably say that the archive has helped
me as much or more than the current email messages each day. I'd be hesitant
to try and condense them too much as well. Chatter woudn't be missed five
years after the post, but it is often the offered solution that turns out to
be way off base that helps me to really understand the subject. The "wrong"
suggestions or questions are often in my own mind. Then an expert explains
why the "wrong" way won't work, and everyone's knowledge grows. In that
case, the process to the answer is as valuable as the "best" answer.
Also, we all do such different things. I have picked up so much from people
telling others that "x" will happen not "y" as the question asker desires,
yet "x" may be what I am seeking, or kick off an idea for me.
Wendy
I would personally be very hesitant to look for the "best" answer to a
question (if I am reading the idea correctly) - would that discard the rest
of the answers that were posted? As a teacher, I know that what I
understand is not necessarily what you will understand.
Plus, there are so many levels of expertise here. I wouldn't even know
where to begin on finding a "best" answer. I just don't know that much yet!
Keba
====================================
Keba Hitzeman
Dayton OH
Spanish - http://keba.hitzeman.com
Clay - http://yellowroomarts.blogspot.com, http://yellowroomarts.etsy.com
Coffee - coffee@enigma22.com
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand
ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Christine
Campbell
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 11:49
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Saving the Archives
At the Potters Council morning breakfast
meeting at NCECA we had a round table
discussion about the need for a new basic
information area that would be easy to use
and maybe even allow updating or editing.
This discussion morphed into thoughts
about mining the archives for the basic
information.
One idea we loved was the idea of asking
ALL OF YOU to help by researching one
or more questions and finding your best answer
or someone else's best answer and storing it on
your computer until we can decide how to
best present it.
And ... like hooking up thousands of small
computers to make one super computer ... we
thought that getting thousands of clayarters to
answer just one question might make short work
of a huge job.
We will definitely get back to you all when we
have some plans set, but together we can work
on this and make it better than ever and hopefully
much less bulky and easier to search.
Yeah, Potters Council!!!
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
Board Member - Potters Council
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
______________________________________________________________________________
Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
subscription settings or unsubscribe/leave the list here:
http://www.acers.org/cic/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots2@visi.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008
3:51 PM
jonathan byler on mon 28 apr 08
isn't there already a mirror site in england that has the archives
too? couldn't someone do a similar trick and have their own mirrored
copy for all to see? does seem a shame to throw it all away.
jon byler
3-D Building Coordinator
Art Department
Auburn University, AL 36849
On Apr 28, 2008, at 3:40 PM, David Martin Hershey wrote:
> Hi Chris and All,
>
> I'm back! Couldn't seem to get clayart to work right
> after the Great ClayArt Meltdown late last year.
> But I've been browsing the list on Yahoo from time
> to time, and am totally bummed re loosing the archives.
>
> I don't know the specifics on the ACerS side,
> but it sure seems to me a bit like
> BURNING THE LIBRARY!
>
> The archives are an incomparable compendium of
> real-world information. Their loss would be a giant
> loss to the whole ceramics world.
>
> It would be a very simple matter to put the complete
> archives on a searchable disk. Or at least an install
> disk, searchable on your computer.
>
> I would buy it in a heartbeat.
>
> Does ACerS even comprehend what they own?
>
> Best, DMH
>
> DMH Studio + Design
> 2629 Manhattan Ave # 137
> Hermosa Beach CA USA
> 90254-2447
> 310.379.6890
>
> dmh at dmhstudio dot com
> http://www.dmhstudio.com
> http://www.dmhstudio.etsy.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Clayart members may send postings to: clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list, post messages, change your
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots2@visi.com
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