Lee Love on sun 25 may 08
EP,
I have used Paypay on my computer to accept a credit card.
I simply bill the customer's email. Actually, it is the electronic
counterpart to taking a check.
I agree with you. Folks are simply too much in the fear
mindset, be it credit cards or glazes.
No need to generate that stuff to come up with helpful suggestions.
It is much better to make decisions based on knowledge. We make
mistakes when we are motivated by fear.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by
education." -- Bertrand Russell
Elizabeth Priddy on sun 25 may 08
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Lee said
I agree with you. Folks are simply too much in the fear
mindset, be it credit cards or glazes.
No need to generate that stuff to come up with helpful suggestions.
It is much better to make decisions based on knowledge. We make
mistakes when we are motivated by fear.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
_________________________________________
I am not quite sure what you mean in the second part there.
Iwas not trying to generrate strife, just responding to what I saw was an extreme
reaction to a simple suggestion.
I am hoping the revived clayart will be a kinder gentler place.
I will try to do my part in that.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
Natural Instincts Conference Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
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Lee said I agree with you. Folks are simply too much in the fear
mindset, be it credit cards or glazes.
No need to generate that stuff to come up with helpful suggestions.
It is much better to make decisions based on knowledge. We make
mistakes when we are motivated by fear.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
_________________________________________ I am not quite sure what you mean in the second part there. Iwas not trying to generrate strife, just responding to what I saw was an extreme reaction to a simple suggestion. I am hoping the revived clayart will be a kinder gentler place. I will try to do my part in that. E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC -
USA
Natural Instincts Conference Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
--0-569437519-1211729697=:33236--
John Rodgers on sun 25 may 08
Lee,
Might I add one word to your list of fears -
politics
Lee said>> Folks are simply too much in the fear mindset, be it credit
cards or glazes.
or "politics"(my add - jr)
The rest holds true as well.,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Lee Love wrote:
> EP,
>
>
> I have used Paypay on my computer to accept a credit card.
> I simply bill the customer's email. Actually, it is the electronic
> counterpart to taking a check.
>
> I agree with you.
>
> No need to generate that stuff to come up with helpful suggestions.
> It is much better to make decisions based on knowledge. We make
> mistakes when we are motivated by fear.
>
>
> --
> Lee in Mashiko, Japan
> http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft
>
> "Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by
> education." -- Bertrand Russell
>
>
>
Christine Campbell on sun 25 may 08
Identity theft seems unimportant until
it happens to you then all of a sudden
it is very real.
My daughter had her info stolen from a
computer she was using in the public
library ... or by the person sitting
next to her ... still not sure how.
It took forever to get things cleared up
and file the right police reports ...
needless to say she never uses anything
other than her personal computer now.
I had mine stolen by a waiter who took my
credit card away after a meal to process the
charge ...
seems he had a little personal shopping to do.
I am not paranoid, but just more vigilant.
Chris Campbell - in North Carolina
--
Chris Campbell Pottery LLC
9417 Koupela Drive
Raleigh NC 27615-2233
Designs in Colored Porcelain
1-800-652-1008
Fax : 919-676-2062
website: www.ccpottery.com
wholesale : www.wholesalecrafts.com
Lee Love on sun 25 may 08
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:46 AM, John Rodgers wrote:
> Lee,
>
> Might I add one word to your list of fears -
>
> politics
I agree fully. Rationality in all things trumps fear judgments in
every way. If you base your discussion on the rational, you don't
hesitate to speak about any topic.
--
Lee in Mashiko, Japan
http://groups.google.com/group/ClayCraft
"Men are born ignorant, not stupid. They are made stupid by
education." -- Bertrand Russell
Alisha Clarke on sun 25 may 08
While Lois may still be upset from personal issues, she also has some
very valid concerns and there are serious concerns for both you and
your customers if you allow them to use your laptop to enter their
credit card payment.
My day job is as the database administrator for the alumni/donor
database of a large university. We process thousands of credit card
transactions of donors, and as the administrator I've had to study the
concerns and liabilities of storing or tracking any of this data on
our system. While we're working on a much larger scale than you will
at a craft fair, the issues are the same
First, for the customer, there are valid concerns. While you may know
that you're a trustworthy person, if they use your computer they are
vulnerable to much more than they would be by swiping their card on a
knuckle buster. With the swipe, their signature -- not the card #
itself -- because the real authorization. While you could try to use
their card number, it would not be as effective as if you had the card
itself and could replicate their signature. In a PayPal transaction,
however, the customer is entering the card number along with the
expiration date and the security code which acts in place of the
signature. I would NEVER use someone else's computer to enter this
data, since I would not know if some illicit software was running on
it that would capture all the keystrokes, allowing someone to quickly
charge up the balance on the card. Even if I trusted the merchant, I
would have no way of knowing what viruses were loaded by their child
who downloaded all the coolest games from the internet.
Secondly, by allowing your computer to be used for that information,
YOU could be personally liable if your computer is stolen or hacked
into. In fact, many states now have laws that if you store any
personal identification information (SSN, credit card #, etc.) of
other individuals on your computers (laptops, PCs, web servers, etc.)
and that computer is stolen or hacked, YOU would have to notify all
those customers of the intrusion, causing them to have to replace
their cards, and you could face hefty fines for the damages. At the
university, we're doing away with the practice of keeping SSNs of our
alumni, or credit card data from transations, even though the SSNs are
very valuable in keeping in touch with the alumni, since the liability
is too great.
I think it would be a VERY BAD idea to create some makeshift method of
credit card payment such as having people enter Paypal transactions
through your computer. If you really want a transaction that will be
authorized on-line, go with one of the new wireless readers that are
built with the necessary security.
Personally, I'm just now building up my show sales, and just recently
applied for a knuckle buster CC account through the Potters Council.
It's just $3.50/mo to be able to handle the cards. Being a computer
geek, I know I could easily set up a techie option using laptops or a
program on my iphone, but it wouldn't be safe. I was also tempted to
go with a fancy wireless reader (which is safe), but the simpler
approach made more sense.
Leesh
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alisha Clarke
Pottery by Leesh: www.alishaclarke.com
Pottery Basics: www.potterybasics.com
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:40 AM, Lois Aronow wrote:
> This was in no way a personal attack, but yes, I am hyper aware because this
> is something that just happened to me, just this week. I am also a bit
> excitable, because it's looking that we might actually catch the people.
> You need ID to board a plane, after all.
>
> There is a reason that most web sites will tell you NOT to save your
> information on a public computer. This has nothing to do with where I live
> - my transactions are made in the global universe called "the internet".
> This has happened on both my computers - the home desktop, and my studio
> laptop.
>
> I am passionate, but not alarmist. I don't believe in living my live being
> afraid of things I can't control. I also don't believe in living
> wrecklessly. I put on my seat belt. Get annual medical exams. Visit the
> dentist. Scuba dive. I talk to strangers, and have even taught people to
> knit on the subway. I wouldn't willingly give people access to my banking
> information by making purchases on a public computer or over a public
> wireless network. I don't think twice about giving a craftsperson my cc for
> their knucklebuster, but I wouldn't give it to the guy who pops up on the
> street corner with umbrellas when it rains. It's not paranoia - it's common
> sense.
>
> Getting someone's email and sending them a PayPal bill is a GREAT idea, and
> still gives them the benefit of the doubt without requiring them to fiddle
> around to finalize their transaction. I still requires trust, and I do it
> all the time when I sell stuff to strangers on the internet. I believe most
> people to be honest. Even the credit card companies know that 98% of them
> are.
>
> So pardon the drama in my alarm. These things can and do happen everywhere
> in the world. More often than you think.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Elizabeth
> Priddy
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 12:04 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: credit cards NOW: A WORD OF CAUTION
>
> Lois,
>
> Your situation is unusual. Your neighborhood is unusual.
>
> Of the billions of cc transactions that occur daily, most of them go by
> without a hitch.
>
> I just refuse to live a life filled with anxiety because bad things happen
> sometimes.
>
> People can always use their own laptops to get on Paypal to pay, some could
> even do it on their PDA. People operate in the world according to their own
> need for security. If they dare, they could even piggyback into my wireless
> in the studio. I am just trying to make it more convenient. As you said,
> the archaic knucklebuster system is a thousand times worse if you are
> talking about ease of fraud, yet people use those every day as well.
>
> It is an illusion to think that the angst you feel is worth it, if you are
> committing all the energy you say and you still get scammed, with alarming
> frequency. But it is your illusion, your life.
>
> I'll stick with my illusion that even if I employed all aspects of security
> available in the world, I would still be vulnerable to someone on a
> mission. So I don't waste a lot of energy on avoiding all risk, but I do
> look at my online banking account every day or two just to make sure nothing
> weird is going on. Reasonable vigilence.
>
> I also wonder if you would have taken as sarcastic a tone with virtually
> anyone else making the same suggestion, as you seem to get in a twist with
> regard to me on a regular basis. Let's let that go, ok?
>
> A new clayart and a new slate for old adversaries. Wouldn't that be a
> beautiful illusion to maintain?
>
> Forever optimistic,
>
> E
>
>
>
> Elizabeth Priddy
> Beaufort, NC - USA
>
> Natural Instincts Conference Information:
> http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
> http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Alisha Clarke
Pottery by Leesh: www.alishaclarke.com
Pottery Basics: www.potterybasics.com
Lee on sun 25 may 08
I think folks are a little confused about computer security. One
of the advantages of internet sales, especially with a service like
Paypal, is that there is no copy of your credit card number left
behind on the sellers copy of the cc slip. With paypal, on the
computer or doing it via cell, the buyer never sees your cc number.
They just know your email address.
For online purchases, I always prefer Paypal over the direct
use of the credit card, except with places like Amazon.jp or other
large vendors. With small scale businesses that are not known to me
personally, I will only use Paypal, to protect my credit card account.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"We are such stuff / As dreams are made on, and our little life / Is
rounded with a sleep."
--PROSPERO Tempest Shakespeare
--
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
"We are such stuff / As dreams are made on, and our little life / Is
rounded with a sleep."
--PROSPERO Tempest Shakespeare
John Post on sun 25 may 08
Hi Lee,
This thread started when Elizabeth mentioned that buyers at a booth
could log into their Paypal account on her wireless laptop to pay for
items purchased at her booth. She mentioned this as an alternative to
using a credit card and thus dealing with the expenses associated with
it.
I then posted that I would not user another person's computer to log
into Paypal since their computer could easily capture anything I typed
into it including my Paypal username and password thus giving someone
easy access to my Paypal account.
I agree that Paypal is a secure way to transfer money on the web. BUT
I would never access Paypal from another person's computer or from a
public computer.
I can add keystroke logging computer software to a PC in under a
minute, hide it from you, and have it set up to email me everything
you type everyday.
I could also lock you out of your mac in under 3 minutes if you left
me alone with it. I'm not a network specialist or a hacker, just
someone who used a couple of easy to find tools and code snippets that
were posted on the internet. If I can do that with very limited
skills, think of what someone who has malicious intentions and hacking
skills could accomplish.
When Elizabeth posts that using a public laptop to access your Paypal
account is safe, she is passing along bad information. While I may
believe that she would never use my personal information for
fraudulent means, that doesn't mean that everyone else who has access
to her computer before or after me will be as well intentioned.
As discussions tend to go on clay art, this one has spiraled away from
where it started, which is OK. That's what happens here.
If folks out there want to naively think that accessing their private
accounts from public computers is a good idea, then there is no amount
of dialogue that is going to change that. If they choose to put their
private information on someone else's computer, it will not change the
balances in any of my accounts. But to proffer it as good advice in
this worldwide public clayart forum is a mistake.
(Mel has to update his virus protection 3 times a day? He lives in
Minnesota, there's only kind, nice caring people in Minnesota, at
least all the ones I have met from there have been.)
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
:: etsy sales website :: http://www.johnpost.etsy.com
> I think folks are a little confused about computer security. One
> of the advantages of internet sales, especially with a service like
> Paypal, is that there is no copy of your credit card number left
> behind on the sellers copy of the cc slip. With paypal, on the
> computer or doing it via cell, the buyer never sees your cc number.
Elizabeth Priddy on sun 25 may 08
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Please don't put words in my mouth.
I never said it was safe. I said you could do it as an alternative to
buying machines. period.
Then in response to fear, I said most people aren't out to get you, and I
mainly meant me not having nefarious motives. But you are right, others are not nice,
so I can't be all the time.
It has been demonstrated that safety precautions could be in place, like maybe they just use my wireless with their machine phone or PDA and do it that way.
Who knows. I did not even tell how to do it, much less make statements about its safety.
Your comments are duly noted. Thank you for pointing out the need for safety.
E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
Natural Instincts Conference Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
--0-606891872-1211764087=:50632
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
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Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was safe. I said you could do it as an alternative to buying machines. period. Then in response to fear, I said most people aren't out to get you, and I mainly meant me not having nefarious motives. But you are right, others are not nice, so I can't be all the time. It has been demonstrated that safety precautions could be in place, like maybe they just use my wireless with their machine phone or PDA and do it that way. Who knows. I did not even tell how to do it, much less make statements about its safety. Your comments are duly noted. Thank you for pointing out the need for safety. E
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
Natural Instincts Conference
Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
--0-606891872-1211764087=:50632--
May Luk on mon 26 may 08
Hello credit card users;
I have my mobile activated with Paypal. I can pay and send invoice through text messaging.(SMS) So I could pay Elizabeth P. without using her laptop if I were visiting her studio.
May
Bad bad Brooklyn, Kings County NY
_________________________________________
Hello admin:
This is what I get when I try to read EP, Steve Mills or Tony F's post online
"Archives - Error
Archives - Error
The archive files could not be accessed, either because the list does not have Web-accessible archives or because they are being updated. If you know that the list has Web archives, please try again in about 30 seconds, and report the problem if it persists for more than a few minutes. The file that could not be opened is 'd:\listserv\archives\upload\7407374550949663.tmp' and the error code was 13."
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