Paul Lewing on thu 5 jun 08
I heard on the news yesterday that we might expect airline fares to
go up as much as 4 times what they are now in the next year or so.
This is really disheartening news for those of us who like to teach,
and attend, workshops. I might never be able to attain my lifetime
goal of teaching in all 50 states, if small arts groups, community
clay programs, and colleges have to pay costs like that, especially
in really poor places like Mississippi or West Virginia. It might
mean the end of an era, and the end of the line for many of the
workshop hosting facilities.
So I was wondering if it might be possible to come up with some kind
of video workshop. I know it's possible to just record yourself
doing one, but I'm talking about more like video conferencing. The
best thing about workshops is being able to ask questions of the
expert while he or she is working. So this would need to be
interactive. Of course, I realize that the groups that host your
typical clay workshop are some of the least technologically
sophisticated people around- many of them don't even have a digital
projector yet, or know how to hook it up if they do.
So what would it take to set this up? Obviously, you'd need a camera
at the demo end, but how good a camera? And you'd probably need
someone to run it, other than the demonstrator. You'd want to be
able to zoom in, move around, etc. Would the demonstrator need to be
able to see the students, do you think? Could it be done in real
time, and how would that work? Would it be through a web site or
somehow on the Internet? What would the school need on their end- a
big screen TV?
That's all assuming that all the students were in one place at one
time. What if each student was at home at his or her own computer?
Could that work? In either of these situations the teacher would
have to be able to hear questions, not just take them by e-mail as in
a chat room. That would take too much time and be too distracting.
How would the students then pay for this and how would one advertise
it? I'm thinking Clayart would work as an advertising venue, but
until the idea caught on, it would have to be explained extensively
in a magazine. It seems like Paypal would work as a payment method.
You could just set a fee, advertise it, and do it when you had enough
students signed up.
Of course this would have some advantages and some disadvantages.
There's nothing like the personal interaction, of course. And in
that latter scenario, the students have no contact with each other
(or could they?) which is one of the best things about workshops.
But you know how working in another studio is always a compromise on
working in your own. That wouldn't be so bad. And it wouldn't have
to happen all at once (in fact, it couldn't- you have to have some
breaks in a two day class). So you could have part of a class on
glazes, let's say, and several days later you could have another part
after glazes have been fired.
We all know that there are some real techno wizards out there on
Clayart. What do you say?
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
Tony Ferguson on fri 6 jun 08
Paul,
I am actually working on solutions for this right now. One of the things I am working on is a content delivery system online. I've taught online and developed curriculum online for a few colleges so I've got some know how. Shoot me an email and we'll talk. I hope to offer 3 different workshops (Photo, Editing, Websites) within the year. My digital photography course I taught is being converted over. Like you, I see the costs going up and up.
Tony Ferguson
Paul Lewing wrote: I heard on the news yesterday that we might expect airline fares to
go up as much as 4 times what they are now in the next year or so.
This is really disheartening news for those of us who like to teach,
and attend, workshops. I might never be able to attain my lifetime
goal of teaching in all 50 states, if small arts groups, community
clay programs, and colleges have to pay costs like that, especially
in really poor places like Mississippi or West Virginia. It might
mean the end of an era, and the end of the line for many of the
workshop hosting facilities.
So I was wondering if it might be possible to come up with some kind
of video workshop. I know it's possible to just record yourself
doing one, but I'm talking about more like video conferencing. The
best thing about workshops is being able to ask questions of the
expert while he or she is working. So this would need to be
interactive. Of course, I realize that the groups that host your
typical clay workshop are some of the least technologically
sophisticated people around- many of them don't even have a digital
projector yet, or know how to hook it up if they do.
So what would it take to set this up? Obviously, you'd need a camera
at the demo end, but how good a camera? And you'd probably need
someone to run it, other than the demonstrator. You'd want to be
able to zoom in, move around, etc. Would the demonstrator need to be
able to see the students, do you think? Could it be done in real
time, and how would that work? Would it be through a web site or
somehow on the Internet? What would the school need on their end- a
big screen TV?
That's all assuming that all the students were in one place at one
time. What if each student was at home at his or her own computer?
Could that work? In either of these situations the teacher would
have to be able to hear questions, not just take them by e-mail as in
a chat room. That would take too much time and be too distracting.
How would the students then pay for this and how would one advertise
it? I'm thinking Clayart would work as an advertising venue, but
until the idea caught on, it would have to be explained extensively
in a magazine. It seems like Paypal would work as a payment method.
You could just set a fee, advertise it, and do it when you had enough
students signed up.
Of course this would have some advantages and some disadvantages.
There's nothing like the personal interaction, of course. And in
that latter scenario, the students have no contact with each other
(or could they?) which is one of the best things about workshops.
But you know how working in another studio is always a compromise on
working in your own. That wouldn't be so bad. And it wouldn't have
to happen all at once (in fact, it couldn't- you have to have some
breaks in a two day class). So you could have part of a class on
glazes, let's say, and several days later you could have another part
after glazes have been fired.
We all know that there are some real techno wizards out there on
Clayart. What do you say?
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
Fredrick Paget on fri 6 jun 08
Paul,
Have you heard of the Internet place called Second Life?
This is a virtual world where the people there are real live people
inhabiting an avatar that looks human (usually).
Some big companies are setting up conference rooms there where they
can hold virtual meetings for their employees no matter how scattered
in the real life.
You have to "Buy" property from the owner of Second Life (Linden
Labs) to set up a place but there are some free ones like the Mac
owners place that are owned by the Linden Labs and I think you might
be able to hold a meeting there.
Basic membership is free and there is a small learning curve.
You could not easily demonstrate as that requires programming through
scripts but there might be a way to show a movie on a second
computer. Maybe one avatar per site as a representative for group
members present there to speak for everyone. Pass the mike to the
questioner. The avatar speaks it . The presenter's avatar answers.
Fred
--
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
Paul Lewing on fri 6 jun 08
On Jun 6, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Fredrick Paget wrote:
Have you heard of the Internet place called Second Life?
This is a virtual world where the people there are real live people
inhabiting an avatar that looks human (usually).
You could not easily demonstrate as that requires programming through
scripts but there might be a way to show a movie on a second
computer.
This sounds intriguing, Fred. I have heard of Second Life, but never
seen it. Tell me more about why you think demonstrating would be
difficult. I take it this is not strictly live video that's being
shown. And would there be a way that, if this were advertised to be
taking place at a certain time, people who had not somehow paid to be
part of it could be blocked?
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
Paul Lewing on fri 6 jun 08
On Jun 6, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Tony Ferguson wrote:
I am actually working on solutions for this right now. One of the
things I am working on is a content delivery system online. I've
taught online and developed curriculum online for a few colleges so
I've got some know how. Shoot me an email and we'll talk. I hope to
offer 3 different workshops (Photo, Editing, Websites) within the year.
I'd love to kick this around more with you, Tony. When you did your
online teaching, was it live and interactive? I know, of course,
that it's possible to film yourself doing a demo and selling the
tape, but that's not what I'm interested in. If it was interactive,
tell me more about how you did it. What did you need on your end and
what did they need on the other end?
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
Fredrick Paget on fri 6 jun 08
>On Jun 6, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Fredrick Paget wrote:
>
>Have you heard of the Internet place called Second Life?
>This is a virtual world where the people there are real live people
>inhabiting an avatar that looks human (usually).
>You could not easily demonstrate as that requires programming through
>scripts but there might be a way to show a movie on a second
>computer.
>Paul Lewing wrote:
>This sounds intriguing, Fred. I have heard of Second Life, but never
>seen it. Tell me more about why you think demonstrating would be
>difficult. I take it this is not strictly live video that's being
>shown.
The avatars are not live video - they are computer generated images.
The avatars are controlled by simple keyboard and mouse commands.
They go in four directions and also can fly. They can sit , or chat
with keyboard. They can speak and music is played. Through scripts
they can dance. If they are paid members at about $10 per month and
own property they can write scripts and build things, sell stuff,
rent space to others, and earn Linden dollars which can be sold for
real money. .
There is no way that I know of to control the avatar to show your
avatar painting or throwing other than writing a script to let the
computer animate it. Not practical. Would take a long time. Would be
like one of those .gif ads..
Perhaps we have a Second Life scripter on Clayart that will chime in
on this. You can read more about this stuff on Wikipedia.
>Paul Lewing wrote:
> And would there be a way that, if this were advertised to be
>taking place at a certain time, people who had not somehow paid to be
>part of it could be blocked?
That should be possible as there is a way to keep people out of your
property if they are not on the guest list. To do that you would have
to"own" the property, I believe, or at least be renting it..
Fred
--
Fred Paget
Twin Dragon Studio
Mill Valley, CA, USA
fredrick@well.com
Charter Member Potters Council
Tony Ferguson on fri 6 jun 08
Hey Paul, Again, nice to meet you a second NCECA ago.
I developed and taught curriculum in 2004, and was sabbatical replacement in 2006 and 2007. Even with my computer background I was a bit skeptical if the content could be delivered and the students have an as equitable or justifiable enough experience online. That's another story of what I learned but by god it worked and well. I taught Introduction to Art/Art History, Digital Photography. I have developed a 2D/3D course, Drawing, Art History with ideas for others and could be looking for the right Art department out there to have me.
Anyway, I TV is probably what you want. I taught asynchronously, which is not live although students could chat with me live by paging me online when we happened to be online at the same time. Students were required to make so many posts each week while working on their lessons, upload their lessons, take quizzes online, interact with me and others, etc. It is awesome what took place. Students logging into D2L (which seemed like we are beta testers for them) could see the lessons, download the videos I created showing step by step how to do things, see imagery and text regarding the lessons, post to the discussion threads (to me and the other students) on their time regarding their learning, questions, difficulties, etc. It worked really well and I would have to thank my friend who mentored me and in fact started online in Minnesota and was one of 4 in the entire us for online learning. He actually inspired me to teach Art online.
Teaching online well (and yes you can do it mediocre) is not easier--it takes a lot more time--That is the biggest mis-conception. It is just more flexible for everyone. There is a lot more time on the computer and especially in developing the curriculum and course work and updating your supplementals but with 4 children its a great trade or rather, was, as I am not currently teaching.
I did, however miss face to face contact with the students and enjoyed some of that in my hybrid course (some online some on campus). It is not the same--but I got to tell you, students are not getting lesser of an education--it is just not for the student who really needs their hands held--and even so, there are a variety of help mechanisms on campus and online now that are very helpful. I would have put my students up against any face to face class.
What you want Paul is I TV or something like that technology but a personal version--my son's class used this system (which is licensed I recall) where a dancer was showing choreography from a gym in Minneapolis (demonstrating) and the kids could see him on a large projector screen and he could see them--video conferencing but on steroids. This is not what you want because everyone would have to be in the same location--or maybe you do as the normal workshop location could in fact be where folks converge to take an e workshop with you--and you would have to mail them the setup--and this leaves me feeling like its a lot bother when you could do it on the net. I made some calls today and waiting for returns for some information.
I think Paul you could do it with web cams and folks could do it from their own computers--this is the way of the future and the band widths are getting better and better--you could also supplement with interactive video lessons and non-interactive video lessons depending on how you want the format of your course to go.
Do a search for interactive e learning, interactive online courses, etc. It's out there. I will get back to you when I get some specifics. I plan to offer my photography workshop via the internet like you some day and also my photography course online--maybe 12 week course with lessons, how to editing videos, etc. So we are in the same boat. I have a variety of projects in the planning stages...busy busy. Take care.
Tony Ferguson
Paul Lewing wrote: On Jun 6, 2008, at 9:32 AM, Tony Ferguson wrote:
I am actually working on solutions for this right now. One of the
things I am working on is a content delivery system online. I've
taught online and developed curriculum online for a few colleges so
I've got some know how. Shoot me an email and we'll talk. I hope to
offer 3 different workshops (Photo, Editing, Websites) within the year.
I'd love to kick this around more with you, Tony. When you did your
online teaching, was it live and interactive? I know, of course,
that it's possible to film yourself doing a demo and selling the
tape, but that's not what I'm interested in. If it was interactive,
tell me more about how you did it. What did you need on your end and
what did they need on the other end?
Paul Lewing
www.paullewingtile.com
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
Tony Ferguson on fri 6 jun 08
Hey Paul,
You can "moodle" to teach a course version of your workshop possibly. It is free, online course content delivery system--you just have to be patient enough and willing enough to set it up. I am in development with it now to teach my Digital Photograph/for Artists course--maybe even this fall if folks are interested!
Tony Ferguson
Tony Ferguson
315 N. Lake Ave. Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
...where the sky meets the lake...
Artist, Educator, Photographer, Film Maker, Web Meister
fergyart@yahoo.com
(218) 727-6339
http://www.tonyferguson.net
Ivor and Olive Lewis on sat 7 jun 08
Dear Paul Lewing ,
Since Video Conferencing is already an established as a viable
technology then your proposal has merit.
I appreciate there could be interaction during demonstration sessions
but it might get a bit complicated if it was hands on tuition.
Sounds like a good idea but I would miss the Smell of Clay.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
gary navarre on sat 7 jun 08
Hay there Folks,
Glad you brought this up again...
A few years ago Bay College in Escanaba decided to build a second West Campus in Iron Mountain and it is now open with classes in nursing, business, and technology being dominant for the time being. During the planning stage I recall contacting the administration about teaching clay using some online methods, because they are really hung on technology, and there is no studio facility on the new campus yet. My thought was to get the (serious) student setting up at the house, or as I like better deer camp, something so simple as a campfire to start and build from there. Unfortunately I contracted that meningitis and had to get a real job so haven't thought much about the opportunity for a while. I thought too better let them have time to make a smooth start before experimenting with Art. The new campus director suggested I would be able to offer the course in the non-credit "Life Long Learning" program. I think I know enough clay to have a basic class but
I don't have the technology part down, but I am willing learning eh?
I have managed to find an editing program that converts JVC's .MOD file format into something I can see and edit and made a movie of sculpting a Dragon Pot but the darn thing is 25 minutes long. Some other footage of another Dragon Pot was made with two cameras, the W30 and JVC, so I can splice different camera angles to make the video more interesting while keeping the dialog consistent.
Tony, I bet it would be worth while for you to see if Bay would have an opportunity for you and this idea.
Gary Navarre
Navarre Pottery
Navarre Enterprises
Norway, Michigan, USA
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/
http://www.youtube.com/GindaUP
--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Tony Ferguson wrote:
> From: Tony Ferguson
> Subject: Re: video workshops
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 7:56 PM
> Hey Paul, Again, nice to meet you a second NCECA ago.
>
> I developed and taught curriculum in 2004, and was
> sabbatical replacement in 2006 and 2007. Even with my
> computer background I was a bit skeptical if the content
> could be delivered and the students have an as equitable or
> justifiable enough experience online. That's another
> story of what I learned but by god it worked and well. I
> taught Introduction to Art/Art History, Digital
> Photography. I have developed a 2D/3D course, Drawing, Art
> History with ideas for others and could be looking for the
> right Art department out there to have me.
May Luk on sat 7 jun 08
Hello all;
I go to the esty virtual lab and it's quite alright.
=20
When you guys work out the technicals, I am interested in an online worksho=
p with Paul Lewing and definitely a slip cast workshop with John Roger in t=
he future. Please pencil me in!
I'm all for lowering the carbon footprints. I'm glad airline tickets are go=
ing up. Please buy local and eat local if you can afford it.
May
Brooklyn
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"The road to shiney happy ceramics is paved with broken sad clown face mask=
s" - Me
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
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