Taylor Hendrix on thu 3 jul 08
And one more thing, Tony,
Don't damn the many of clayart to mediocrity quite so quickly. Need I
remind you how your trip up Yellow Mountain turned out? I know you
learned quite a lot when you turned to look down the steep path of
Huangshan.
I'm thinking the trick is not to try racing the natives to the top.
Just be sure to wear good shoes.
Taylor, in Rockport TX
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 12:04 AM, tony clennell wrote:
...
I can
> tell a student why they should do this or that because I have 30 years
> experience. they benefit from my 30 years of sitting in a basement
> trying to figure it out. ...
tony clennell on thu 3 jul 08
I have to laugh at this institutional versus just do it dialogue on
Clayart. I have 18 year old students doing better work than many
Clayarters will ever make. Give a talented student a long leash, a
good teacher, great facilities and they will make better work than
sitting in a basement trying to figure it all out on you own. I can
tell a student why they should do this or that because I have 30 years
experience. they benefit from my 30 years of sitting in a basement
trying to figure it out. Today on my blog I showed the work of Young
danny Crump that knows more about pots than 10 men. Tomorrow I'll show
young Peter that is 18 making work that offers much hope for a healthy
clay future.
cheers,
Tony
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
David Hendley on thu 3 jul 08
Tony, you and Mel are not on the same page and might
as well be writing in a different language.
Mel was referring to the perennial students who sign up for
pottery classes for years, extending on to decades. I know
"students" who have been taking ceramics at the same place
since your Young Peter was making mud pies in the
kindergarten yard.
As Mel wrote:
>many instructional organizations make the student
>dependant. they want them to stay and stay.
>it becomes a club. the same small group taking
>the `clay class`.
>they are not encouraged to `strike out`, they are
>encouraged to stay and pay.
I have also spoken out to these "students", telling them
that enough is enough and they need to establish their
own studio or get off the pot. Yes, after a decade in the
same class, a potter will learn more in the basement,
buying the materials, loading and firing the kiln, cleaning
up, and keeping records, than staying at the institution.
In your situation you are dealing with serious, motivated,
gung-ho students. They would do well no matter the situation.
They will happily move on when they've gotten all they
need from college. Would USU allow a student to take
ceramics classes for 18 years? No professional program would,
of course, but there are plenty of junior colleges and guilds
that are happy to increase the body count by allowing
people to take the same class over and over. I guess it's
okay for mildly the interested hobbyist, but really neither the
school nor the student is well served.
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
david(at)farmpots(dot)com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
>I have to laugh at this institutional versus just do it dialogue on
> Clayart. I have 18 year old students doing better work than many
> Clayarters will ever make. Give a talented student a long leash, a
> good teacher, great facilities and they will make better work than
> sitting in a basement trying to figure it all out on you own. I can
> tell a student why they should do this or that because I have 30 years
> experience. they benefit from my 30 years of sitting in a basement
> trying to figure it out. Today on my blog I showed the work of Young
> danny Crump that knows more about pots than 10 men. Tomorrow I'll show
> young Peter that is 18 making work that offers much hope for a healthy
> clay future.
> cheers,
> Tony
Taylor Hendrix on thu 3 jul 08
Professor,
I know I wine about not having much time left to do clay, but I wasn't
aware it was a race, and I don't think compairing you kick ass
students (who were accepted to one of the premier programs in the US)
with all of clayart as a meaningful comparison. Angst ridden, yes;
meaningful, not so much. You like apples and I like oranges.
You just be sure to tell them students of yours to keep on keeping on,
just like you. Man, I can't even remember being 18. I'll get someone
to clean off the fan at the Ram's Head, okay?
Taylor, in Rockport TX where basements are not an option at 7 feet
above sea level
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 12:04 AM, tony clennell wrote:
> I have to laugh at this institutional versus just do it dialogue on
> Clayart. I have 18 year old students doing better work than many
> Clayarters will ever make. Give a talented student a long leash, a
> good teacher, great facilities and they will make better work than
> sitting in a basement trying to figure it all out on you own. I can
> tell a student why they should do this or that because I have 30 years
> experience. they benefit from my 30 years of sitting in a basement
> trying to figure it out. Today on my blog I showed the work of Young
> danny Crump that knows more about pots than 10 men. Tomorrow I'll show
> young Peter that is 18 making work that offers much hope for a healthy
> clay future.
> cheers,
> Tony
Lee Love on thu 3 jul 08
On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 12:28 PM, David Hendley wrote:
> people to take the same class over and over. I guess it's
> okay for mildly the interested hobbyist, but really neither the
> school nor the student is well served.
Haha! I enjoy debating from side of the fence with the Tonys
against elitism!
I know folks at Northern Clay who have been taking classes
since 1990. Just because they don't mix their own glazes and clays
or don't fire their own pots, doesn't mean they aren't serious. It is
especially true for folks making ceramic sculpture or others who have
a serious commitment to form.
Can you imagine insisting that painters make their own paints and
pigments or weave their own canvas? Sculptors smelting their own
bronze or how about requiring woodblock printers to grow their own
trees?
Did you know in Japan, that Hiroshige and Hokusai did not print their
own prints? Printers printed them. The printers did not cut the
wood blocks. Carvers did.
There are many roads to the top of the mountain. Your path
does not take away from mine nor does mine take away from yours. If
you are confident in what you do, it is easy to accept this.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is
rounded with a sleep." --PROSPERO Tempest Shakespeare
Lois Ruben Aronow on thu 3 jul 08
I guess I still don't understand what's wrong with that? If they enjoy it,
who is to judge. If they love their own work, awesome. Why is this even an
issue?
...Lo
who knits compulsively, but has no desire to spin, own sheep or - gasp!! -
dig her own clay.
>
> Tony, you and Mel are not on the same page and might as well
> be writing in a different language.
> Mel was referring to the perennial students who sign up for
> pottery classes for years, extending on to decades. I know
> "students" who have been taking ceramics at the same place
> since your Young Peter was making mud pies in the kindergarten yard.
>
Steve Mills on fri 4 jul 08
What it boils down to is that there are two main groups of clay people; tho=
se for whom the creative urge includes the whole process, and those who der=
ive their satisfaction from the=A0 making and decorating only, leaving the =
technical side largely to the Professionals or Teachers.
=A0
Over here this situation existed for a very long time until comparatively r=
ecently when it was deemed by Government that one could only go to a class =
to achieve some form of paper qualification to prove you had "learnt someth=
ing" or "acquired a skill". Recreational classes were out!=20
This, sadly, has left a large number of people "out in the cold", depriving=
them of a regular chance to relax with friends and make something for the =
pleasure of making. It has also stopped people learning and appreciating th=
e art and craft of pottery which in turn was=A0 educating our own future cu=
stomers.
So please don't knock the hobbyist, recreational, or part-time potter, they=
are all part of the mix, and their enthusiasm at their level of commitment=
has a beneficial knock-on effect to all those like me to whom Pottery is a=
way of life.
=0A=0A=0A
KATHI LESUEUR on fri 4 jul 08
On Jul 3, 2008, at 3:31 PM, Lee Love wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 12:28 PM, David Hendley
> wrote:
>
>> people to take the same class over and over. I guess it's
>> okay for mildly the interested hobbyist, but really neither the
>> school nor the student is well served.
>
> Haha! I enjoy debating from side of the fence with the Tonys
> against elitism!
>
> I know folks at Northern Clay who have been taking classes
> since 1990. Just because they don't mix their own glazes and clays
> or don't fire their own pots, doesn't mean they aren't serious.>>>>>
Living where you can LEGALLY have your own studio is not an option
for some potters. Some live in residential areas that won't allow a
kiln. Others live in condos. I, personally, think that the basement
studio is a health hazard. That dust gets in your duct work and you
can never get it out. So, for someone in that situation, taking the
same class over and over may be the only way they can work in clay.
It doesn't make them any less serious just a person with fewer options.
Kathi
.
steve graber on fri 4 jul 08
i taught an adult education pottery class for 8 years or so (lakewood, cali=
fornia) and had many returning students as well as new ones each session.=
=A0 =0Apeople take the=A0classes for many reasons.=A0 many NOT related to c=
lay.=A0 =0Ait's a social event, they want to get out of the house and NOT a=
bar or movie or mall or gym or where ever else they might otherwise go.=A0=
=0Aplus the school set up's often simply have better faciltiies than peopl=
e can set up in their basements.=A0 (we=A0don't even have basements in cali=
fornia).=A0 =0Aafter i moved i then took up an adut ed class myself.=A0 ~ f=
or the social side of it mainly...=A0 it's fun!=A0 =0Asee ya=0A=A0Steve Gra=
ber, Graber's Pottery, Inc=0AClaremont, California USA=0AThe Steve Tool - f=
or awesum texture on pots! =0Awww.graberspottery.com steve@graberspottery.c=
om=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: David Hendley POTS.COM>=0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=0ASent: Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:=
28:05 AM=0ASubject: Re: Whose kidding who???=0A=0ATony, you and Mel are not=
on the same page and might=0Aas well be writing in a different language.=
=0AMel was referring to the perennial students who sign up for=0Apottery cl=
asses for years, extending on to decades. I know=0A"students" who have been=
taking ceramics at the same place=0Asince your Young Peter was making mud =
pies in the=0Akindergarten yard.=0A=0AAs Mel wrote:=0A>many instructional o=
rganizations make the student=0A>dependant.=A0 they want them to stay and s=
tay.=0A>it becomes a club.=A0 the same small group taking=0A>the `clay clas=
s`.=0A>they are not encouraged to `strike out`, they are=0A>encouraged to s=
tay and pay.=0A=0AI have also spoken out to these "students", telling them=
=0Athat enough is enough and they need to establish their=0Aown studio or g=
et off the pot. Yes, after a decade in the=0Asame class, a potter will lear=
n more in the basement,=0Abuying the materials, loading and firing the kiln=
, cleaning=0Aup, and keeping records, than staying at the institution.=0A=
=0AIn your situation you are dealing with serious, motivated,=0Agung-ho stu=
dents. They would do well no matter the situation.=0AThey will happily move=
on when they've gotten all they=0Aneed from college. Would USU allow a stu=
dent to take=0Aceramics classes for 18 years? No professional program would=
,=0Aof course, but there are plenty of junior colleges and guilds=0Athat ar=
e happy to increase the body count by allowing=0Apeople to take the same cl=
ass over and over. I guess it's=0Aokay for mildly the interested hobbyist, =
but really neither the=0Aschool nor the student is well served.=0A=0ADavid =
Hendley=0AMaydelle, Texas=0Adavid(at)farmpots(dot)com=0Ahttp://www.farmpots=
.com=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message -----=0A>I have to laugh at this instit=
utional versus just do it dialogue on=0A> Clayart. I have 18 year old stude=
nts doing better work than many=0A> Clayarters will ever make. Give a talen=
ted student a long leash, a=0A> good teacher, great facilities and they wil=
l make better work than=0A> sitting in a basement trying to figure it all o=
ut on you own. I can=0A> tell a student why they should do this or that bec=
ause I have 30 years=0A> experience. they benefit from my 30 years of sitti=
ng in a basement=0A> trying to figure it out. Today on my blog I showed the=
work of Young=0A> danny Crump that knows more about pots than 10 men. Tomo=
rrow I'll show=0A> young Peter that is 18 making work that offers much hope=
for a healthy=0A> clay future.=0A> cheers,=0A> Tony=0A=0A=0A=0A
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