Paul Borian on tue 5 aug 08
I have been using trimming tools made from concrete ties and they work =
great but need to be sharpened frequently and wear out fairly quickly =
since there is no way to harden them because they are mild steel. If I =
could find some kind of carbon steel that I could harden be heating with =
a torch and then quenching to make them with they would last a lot =
longer. Certainly not tool steel or anything really high end, just =
better than mild steel. I would need it to be in the form of 3/16" thick =
flat bar by =BE" wide so they would be just like the ties I am used to.
Can anyone recommend a particular type of steel that would fit this =
application? I don't know if they even make carbon steel flat bar and, =
if so, how many grades there would be.
Thanks,
Paul
Steve Mills on tue 5 aug 08
Paul,
I make my trimming tools out of mild steel strap, sharpening them and then =
case hardening them, often using sugar to do that.=20
I did have some Casenit, a proprietary case-hardening material, but I ran o=
ut. Sugar works just as well, putting the carbon into the place you want it=
and giving you a sharp, hard, working edge.
Steve
Bath
UK
--- On Tue, 8/5/08, Paul Borian wrote:
From: Paul Borian
Subject: Hardened steel for trimming tools: where & what to get?
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Tuesday, August 5, 2008, 6:03 AM
I have been using trimming tools made from concrete ties and they work grea=
t but
need to be sharpened frequently and wear out fairly quickly since there is =
no
way to harden them because they are mild steel. If I could find some kind o=
f
carbon steel that I could harden be heating with a torch and then quenching=
to
make them with they would last a lot longer. Certainly not tool steel or
anything really high end, just better than mild steel. I would need it to b=
e in
the form of 3/16" thick flat bar by =BE" wide so they would be just
like the ties I am used to.
Can anyone recommend a particular type of steel that would fit this
application? I don't know if they even make carbon steel flat bar and, if
so, how many grades there would be.
Thanks,
Paul
=0A=0A=0A
W J Seidl on tue 5 aug 08
Paul:
Before looking for a source for tool steel (hint, BTW, try using steel=20
from a car or truck leaf spring, heated red hot and pounded thinner) try=20
heat treating your mild steel.
It's done the same way you mention, heat and quench, but don't quench in=20
water. Heat cherry red and the quench in used motor oil (outside, not=20
in the garage!)
Should last longer for you. Oh yeah, be sure to make the shape as you=20
need it before heat treating.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
Paul Borian wrote:
> I have been using trimming tools made from concrete ties and they work =
great but need to be sharpened frequently and wear out fairly quickly sin=
ce there is no way to harden them because they are mild steel. If I could=
find some kind of carbon steel that I could harden be heating with a tor=
ch and then quenching to make them with they would last a lot longer. Cer=
tainly not tool steel or anything really high end, just better than mild =
steel. I would need it to be in the form of 3/16" thick flat bar by =BE" =
wide so they would be just like the ties I am used to.
>
> Can anyone recommend a particular type of steel that would fit this app=
lication? I don't know if they even make carbon steel flat bar and, if so=
, how many grades there would be.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
>
> =20
Taylor Hendrix on tue 5 aug 08
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ZW5kLCBqdXN0IGJldHRlciB0aGFuCm1pbGQgc3RlZWwuIEkgd291bGQgbmVlZCBpdCB0byBiZSBp
biB0aGUgZm9ybSBvZiAzLzE2IiB0aGljayBmbGF0IGJhcgpieSDCviIgd2lkZSBzbyB0aGV5IHdv
dWxkIGJlIGp1c3QgbGlrZSB0aGUgdGllcyBJIGFtIHVzZWQgdG8uCi4uLgo=
DRB Seattle on tue 5 aug 08
Paul
My experience has been with spring steel tines that break off from street s=
weepers and banding steel (when I asked at the scrap yard for some heavier =
gauge strap there resopnse was as if- "ooo! a sucker to haul off our garbag=
e..."
My prosess was; to heat them to red heat and cool, form and sharpen, heat t=
o red haet and quench in motor oil.
DRB
Seattle
--- On Mon, 8/4/08, Paul Borian wrote:
From: Paul Borian
Subject: Hardened steel for trimming tools: where & what to get?
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Monday, August 4, 2008, 10:03 PM
I have been using trimming tools made from concrete ties and they work grea=
t but
need to be sharpened frequently and wear out fairly quickly since there is =
no
way to harden them because they are mild steel. If I could find some kind o=
f
carbon steel that I could harden be heating with a torch and then quenching=
to
make them with they would last a lot longer. Certainly not tool steel or
anything really high end, just better than mild steel. I would need it to b=
e in
the form of 3/16" thick flat bar by =BE" wide so they would be just
like the ties I am used to.
Can anyone recommend a particular type of steel that would fit this
application? I don't know if they even make carbon steel flat bar and, if
so, how many grades there would be.
Thanks,
Paul
=0A=0A=0A
Ben Shelton on wed 6 aug 08
Paul,
"tool" steel comes in a multitude of varieties.
All will be heated to a critical temp and quenched to harden then tempered to make them less brittle. If you have hardened steel you wish to work, put it in the kiln and heat to the annealing temp and cool slowly.
O series are meant to be quenched in oil.
W in water, A and D in air.
FWIW if you find a particular alloy you can look up data sheets online and get exact temps.
As mentioned, leaf springs from cars are great sources of tool steel and should harden well with either water or oil. The size of the piece that you are hardening will make a difference. Larger pieces can have cracking problems if quenched too fast. Water is the fastest quench. I'd use veggie oil if I were you.
Anneal first if you are using hand tools or you'll wreck them and work yourself to death.
some FAQ's
http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/heat_faq_index.htm
http://www.knives.com/heatreat.html
http://www.nessteel.com/o-1tech2.htm
As to sources, any industrial supply or steel supply place will have new tool steel. Junk yards have leaf springs of course. Old metal files can sometimes work depends on if they are case hardened steel or tool steel. Hay rakes have tool steel tines.
Band saw blades are usually l-6 and I have some of that if you want it. It is about 1/8" thick.
online metals is a good source too
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=11932&step=4&showunits=inches&id=246&top_cat=131
Have fun.
Ben
Michael Wendt on wed 6 aug 08
Paul,
Get some samples of 1/8" welding rod
used for hard facing.
Performance Alloys Corporation makes
a number of very nice rod types including
CRC2 in the 1/8" size.
Remove the coating, cut to size, bend and
mount in a long 1/4" bolt head, then hammer
flat to give you more sharpening depth.
Heat with a torch to incandescent and let
air cool.
Result... trim tools that are
Hardern-Helle.
See:
http://www.wendtpottery.com/clayart.htm
for photos and directions.
Regards,
Michael Wendt
Wendt Pottery
2729 Clearwater Ave.
Lewiston, Id 83501
U.S.A.
208-746-3724
wendtpot@lewiston.com
http://www.wendtpottery.com
http://UniquePorcelainDesigns.com
Ben Shelton on thu 7 aug 08
Michael Wendt,
you are an amazing font of knowledge.
Hardfacing rods are made from an especially abrasion resistant steel. Originally used to put a hard face on plow parts so they have to be very abrasion resistant.
You Sir, are a smart feller.
Ben
Ivor and Olive Lewis on fri 8 aug 08
<steel. Originally used to put a hard face on plow parts so they have
to be very abrasion resistant.>>
Be careful what you ask for. Ferrous alloy steel welding rods can be
made from a core of mild steel and the alloy ingredients are in the
coating.
The coating materials, as you might imagine a true Ceramic material.
So, if you go down that pathway to get a turning tool grind up the
coating and make some test tiles. It is possible the adhesive that
holds the powder together would be sodium silicate.
I have a crow bar/tamper that needed surfacing. Gave the rods to the
engineer, Stellite No 1. When I went to pick up my tool he had used
one of the Cobalarc steel rods. Managed to get some Colmonoy powder
and the loan of a torch to apply it. A thin skim of self fluxing
molten metal across a mild steel base and there you have a self
sharpening tool. That is amazing stuff.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
South Australia.
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