mel jacobson on tue 26 aug 08
i have taught thousands of kids to make pots. thousands.
it is a joy, and i am very proud of how i teach.
clay work/throwing is based on the human hand, human coordination
and strength.
it is all about feeling the clay and the momentum of spinning.
it is the human body working with a simple machine.
we don't need anything to aid us in this task, the centering phase
is the best learning phase.
vince has said it well.
but, some added thoughts.
the wheel is not for small children. i know, someone will tell
me their 8 year old can throw like a dream....i am talking
about clay education...the mass of kids. not three examples.
i have found that kids really gain throwing strength at 15-16.
some girls are good at 14...they are just more mature.
in fact, kids that drive, throw much better...they understand the
machine. remember, many young people do not have machine
understanding....they just do not use them much...they don't
repair cars, they don't take their bikes apart. so, the spinning
wheel is a new concept. a 15 year old will concentrate
on the action, an 8 year old will play with the patterns and mush
the clay. it is fun and games.
many elementary teachers do not have art skills, just not trained.
their lives are phonics and control. how do you introduce them
to throwing? you don't.
i have a wonderful story....
i would have open art education lessons for any elementary
teachers that wanted to stay and learn some stuff.
it was open and free..i was not paid. people just don't know
how artists work, they don't know the tools, the media, and
are confused.
here is how i would start:
take a new box of oil based crayons, open them...all lined
up by color dark to light.
take out the crayons and break them in two, take off the
paper, throw them on the table. then proceed to do a
oil/crayon painting on 500 lb water color paper/arches/
and show them the side swipe of the crayon, the sharp edges,
the layering of color. use up the color, grab another piece.
use it up. they would be horrrrified. break a crayon? take off
the paper? my god, kill that man...blasphemy. you all know
what is going on. art crayons are to lined up in a box, never used
up. the paper keeps our fingers clean...when i was done
my left hand was smeared with many colors, i would smudge
the painting with my fingers....but, when done...`my god, that
is a real painting`..how did you do that?`
see, no concept of the art or how to use the materials.
same for clay.
we have to keep clean, wear latex gloves, have a tool to
center so the child has success...instantly. we cannot let
them learn alone, they must be aided in everything. sick.
the other concept that i used was `all wheels face the wall`.
each student looks at a blank wall...it gives safety.
if wheels face each other you might as well serve soda and
chips..you have a social party. they throw clay at each other,
and really shy or serious kids have someone starring at them.
i built low walls in my room to give more blank walls for the
wheels...30 of them.
so, for sure...if you do not have the strength and coordination
to center five pounds of clay....don't get on the wheel.
wait until you develop.
i think there are many things that humans can wait for.
we have dropped sex into the sixth grade....my god.
we have dating at 10. prom at 12.
sad commentary....
so, like prom, throwing should be a 15 forward thing.
they learn fast, control the clay, and understand the
machine.
small children are served by learning hand building. just clay
and their tiny fingers. fire it up and they love their stuff
forever.
mel
from minnetonka:
website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart site:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
Elizabeth Priddy on tue 26 aug 08
I have taught=A0HUNDREDS of 8-10 year olds to throw.
You can't use the same technique you do with adults,=20
but the pots my kids throw are better than much of the=20
dreck that pass for pots in beginning community college classes.
=A0
Children make small pots because they are not strong, but=20
they can do all of it.=A0 I had kids supporting their own after
school programs by selling the pots they threw and decorated.
=A0
Just because you have not taught children to throw does not=20
mean that it can't be done.=A0 I get tired of hearing this misinformation.
They can usually get a centered small pot in 2-3 sessions.
=A0
I don't put them on electric wheels with too much power, but
instead York kickwheels.=A0 The same techniques work with older adults with
weakened limbs.=A0 Please stop perpetuating this myth made up of whole clot=
h.
=A0
Most people have just never tried much less succeeded in doing it.
=A0
back off my soapbox...
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
Workshops and pottery online at:
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
Natural Instincts Conference Information:
http://downtothepottershouse.com/NaturalInstincts.html
Kiln pictures and such:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7973282@N03/
--- On Tue, 8/26/08, mel jacobson wrote:
From: mel jacobson
Subject: centering tool, clay education
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 9:05 AM
i have taught thousands of kids to make pots. thousands.
it is a joy, and i am very proud of how i teach.
clay work/throwing is based on the human hand, human coordination
and strength.
it is all about feeling the clay and the momentum of spinning.
it is the human body working with a simple machine.
we don't need anything to aid us in this task, the centering phase
is the best learning phase.
vince has said it well.
but, some added thoughts.
the wheel is not for small children. i know, someone will tell
me their 8 year old can throw like a dream....i am talking
about clay education...the mass of kids. not three examples.
i have found that kids really gain throwing strength at 15-16.
some girls are good at 14...they are just more mature.
in fact, kids that drive, throw much better...they understand the
machine. remember, many young people do not have machine
understanding....they just do not use them much...they don't
repair cars, they don't take their bikes apart. so, the spinning
wheel is a new concept. a 15 year old will concentrate
on the action, an 8 year old will play with the patterns and mush
the clay. it is fun and games.
many elementary teachers do not have art skills, just not trained.
their lives are phonics and control. how do you introduce them
to throwing? you don't.
i have a wonderful story....
i would have open art education lessons for any elementary
teachers that wanted to stay and learn some stuff.
it was open and free..i was not paid. people just don't know
how artists work, they don't know the tools, the media, and
are confused.
here is how i would start:
take a new box of oil based crayons, open them...all lined
up by color dark to light.
take out the crayons and break them in two, take off the
paper, throw them on the table. then proceed to do a
oil/crayon painting on 500 lb water color paper/arches/
and show them the side swipe of the crayon, the sharp edges,
the layering of color. use up the color, grab another piece.
use it up. they would be horrrrified. break a crayon? take off
the paper? my god, kill that man...blasphemy. you all know
what is going on. art crayons are to lined up in a box, never used
up. the paper keeps our fingers clean...when i was done
my left hand was smeared with many colors, i would smudge
the painting with my fingers....but, when done...`my god, that
is a real painting`..how did you do that?`
see, no concept of the art or how to use the materials.
same for clay.
we have to keep clean, wear latex gloves, have a tool to
center so the child has success...instantly. we cannot let
them learn alone, they must be aided in everything. sick.
the other concept that i used was `all wheels face the wall`.
each student looks at a blank wall...it gives safety.
if wheels face each other you might as well serve soda and
chips..you have a social party. they throw clay at each other,
and really shy or serious kids have someone starring at them.
i built low walls in my room to give more blank walls for the
wheels...30 of them.
so, for sure...if you do not have the strength and coordination
to center five pounds of clay....don't get on the wheel.
wait until you develop.
i think there are many things that humans can wait for.
we have dropped sex into the sixth grade....my god.
we have dating at 10. prom at 12.
sad commentary....
so, like prom, throwing should be a 15 forward thing.
they learn fast, control the clay, and understand the
machine.
small children are served by learning hand building. just clay
and their tiny fingers. fire it up and they love their stuff
forever.
mel
from minnetonka:
website http://www.visi.com/~melpots/
clayart site:
http://www.visi.com/~melpots/clayart.html
=0A=0A=0A
May Luk on tue 26 aug 08
Yes! Please get the kids off the gameboys. My 12 year old newphew can't eve=
n carry a normal conversation at the dinner table.
My ex-throwing tutor Chris Bramble let his twin daughters (11 year old) tau=
ght very young children wheel throwing at his open studio. He said the girl=
s have been doing teaching since they were 8!
Regards
May
> I have taught=A0HUNDREDS of 8-10 year olds to throw.
>=20
> Elizabeth Priddy
> Beaufort, NC - USA
>=20
=0A=0ASend instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yaho=
o.com
John Post on tue 26 aug 08
I am with Mel 100% on the issue of little kids and wheels. While a
few may show an inclination for it, there really isn't an effective
way to teach a class full of elementary kids who come once a week to
art class for an hour how to throw on a wheel.
I bring a couple of wheels in the last week of school and do some
demonstrations for the kids and then get a few kids on them and we
make some small bowls together. But then I tell the kids where they
can take wheel lessons locally and I tell them about our junior high
and high school art programs. I don't try to teach a full class of
30+ 8-year-olds how to throw on the wheel in their 47 minute art time.
This little snippet is from a link Phil posted last week...
`In its original, genuine sense, Waldorf is not preparing the child
to be a dollar commodity in the marketplace, but is meeting each
stage of a child's life with the environment that allows the child to
be fully and completely and wholly a child at that time. My statement
has always been that the three-year-old is not an incomplete five-year-
old, but a complete, total and whole three-year-old. If a child is
given all the nurturing to be here as a three year old, they'll be
the perfect five year old later on, and so on.`
Schools lately seem to be pushing the curriculum farther and farther
down. My son in 7th grade does math I got in 10th grade. No wonder
kids start to hate school. It keeps getting more and more abstract
and less connected to where they are in life.
This summer my son who is now 13 wanted to learn more about
computers. He started his own blog and is now learning Dreamweaver
software. He is so jazzed up about it, that he works on it everyday.
Yesterday he told me that he wants to learn to type better. We tried
to teach him a couple of years ago, but he had no use for it then.
Now that he needs it, he is an engaged learner. When the student is
ready the teacher appears.
Maybe if you're not ready to learn to center, you're not ready to
learn to throw on the wheel.
There are things that I don't teach my K-6 students. Perspective is
one of them. K-6 students do great with layered space, one object in
front of another on the picture plane. You can actually make really
interesting paintings, just using layered space. Once kids get to
junior high, they grasp perspective space much more easily, because
their brains are ready for it. That's the best time to teach them,
when they are ready.
Elementary art doesn't have to be just playtime. Kids can learn about
artists, cultures and famous artworks but on a level that is
appropriate for them. Kids have their own ideas they use as
inspiration just as famous artists have subjects they explore in their
art. The trick with kids is to figure out what subject matter will
engage them as learners in the art process. Little kids could care
less about non-objective art, so I stick with art that has
recognizable subject matter.
I think a better clay tool for the elementary classroom is an
extruder. You can make coil pots that are taller and have better
form. Animal legs are a snap with nice thick extruded coils, as are
slab walls for small projects. Hollow dies make it possible to make
nice little jewelry boxes too.
That centering tool is just too cumbersome and is going to be gobbed
up full of dry clay chunks. Not to mention that in the videos, the
adults did all the work with it. I could center a ball of clay faster
than that guy can stamp one out for a kid.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
> i think there are many things that humans can wait for.
> small children are served by learning hand building. just clay
> and their tiny fingers. fire it up and they love their stuff
> forever.
Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 26 aug 08
Ditto with Mel on kids and wheels. Question: why do so many people think
that the wheel is the be all and end all to pottery? I will preface my post
by saying I have 2 kids - ages 11 and 7.
Kids start out hand building for a reason: tactile materials, clay in
particular, help develop fine motor skills. Most pre-k kids don't even have
a developed pincer grip - the one that allows them to hold a pencil and
write. Clay in schools is used to teach form, touch, color, hand/eye....all
that. Wheel throwing in so very far away and unnecessary at this age. I
have never seen a pottery class (even outside of the school) that teaches
wheel to students younger than teen. Most beginner adults become frustrated
at first. Wanna discourage kids from pursuing clay? Show them when
prematurely how tough it can be. It will discourage them from ever using
clay again.
Developing the eye and the appreciation of what one is doing is far more
important than developing wheel skills. I think we have all seen too many
people who can use a wheel decently and make fugly pots. There is nothing
wrong with hand building and sculpture, and I wish more people here had an
appreciation for it. Pisses me off.
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