dwain on tue 26 aug 08
On 8/26/08, Lee Love wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:26 PM, dwain wrote:
>
> > i just wanted to share some of this information with you so you can
> > make some educated decisions about choosing a designer and making you
> > safe from a possible lawsuit.
>
>
> I can see why folks might think they could get something out of
> Target, but suing a potter would be like squeezing water from a stone.
> Lawyers think about the object of litigation ability to pay so they
> can get their cut.
hi lee,
granted most people who do clay don't make a lot of money, but section
508, the government's rules on accessibility, is the law. if you were
sued and lost, it could cost you quite a bit to redesign your web
site, as it did target, to make it accessible according to the law.
web standards aren't law, but accessibility is and a lot of countries
on this big blue marble have accessibility laws and enforce them. it
just hasn't caught on real big here yet.
cheers,
dwain
--
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin
Franklin
dwain on tue 26 aug 08
i haven't made a pot since 1993. i haven't been able to afford to
have my own clay studio since graduating in 1990. i am close to
having my dream of a clay studio fulfilled. i miss playing in the
mud.
i have occupied myself for the past nine years to designing web sites.
i have become more standards-minded in the past five and have
concentrated on accessibility for the past two. i have visited some
of the web sites of members of this list and have found them not in
compliance with standards or the government's section 508
accessibility guidelines.
there are standards in the clay industry that you can count on. could
you imagine a clay world where each purchase of clay was different
from the next? maybe some of your cones that you use in your kiln
would slump a little too soon or a little too late. but there are
standards that keep each batch of clay the same and the cones made to
slump at the proper temperature. the same should be with your web
site.
as browsers become more stands compliant, there will come a day when
your web site won't work as expected. following standards will keep
this from happening. today there are around 10,000 web designers in
the world that follow the standards set by the world wide web
consortium (w3c). the sites they design are both standards compliant
and accessible. they are members of the web standards group (wsg) and
the guild of accessible web designers (gawd).
last year target was sued by a group of disabled group because of a
pies of javascript on their web site that made their site
inaccessible. imagine if you will a kiln without a peep hole. how
would you know when the cone slumped in your gas kiln or your electric
kiln without a kiln sitter or computer controlled for that matter?
this is not an advertisement for design services, this is information
that could same you some big bucks in the future.
simple things like adding alt text to an image makes the image
accessible and it can help in your rankings on the different search
engines. sizing your photographs to the size you need them and making
them 72 dpi helps folks on dial-up access your web site quicker and
allows your page overall to download faster. making sure that your
flash objects are accessible and small enough to load quickly is
another consideration. and all of these suggestions are within
standards, because they are the standards.
i have had web site owners tell me, "well it works." and that may be
true, but for how long? making the switch to standards will make it
work better and longer.
remember when you were in english class and you had to make an outline
for your paper? that's how you or your web designer should think
about your web page. a semantically correct document makes sense to
folks who access your web site with a screen reader, and yes, blind
people use the internet. it also has an effect on your ranking on
search engines and that's the name of the game, getting on the first
or second page of a web search.
not all web authoring web tools are equal. some don't close html
(hypertext markup language) tags. few allow you to author your pages
according to standards. i got into web design because i couldn't
afford to pay someone to do it for me.
i had to learn html and css (cascading style sheets), but once i got
the basics and came to an understanding of how css worked, i was off
to the races. i no longer use tables for designing web pages.
without tables my pages load faster, even on a dial-up connection,
because there is less code to be processed. the other advantage is
that the content of the page is separate from the presentation. when
i want to redesign my site all i have to do is edit one file. with
tables you have to start from scratch.
i just wanted to share some of this information with you so you can
make some educated decisions about choosing a designer and making you
safe from a possible lawsuit.
greetings form northwest alabama,
dwain
--
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin
Franklin
Lee Love on tue 26 aug 08
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:26 PM, dwain wrote:
> i just wanted to share some of this information with you so you can
> make some educated decisions about choosing a designer and making you
> safe from a possible lawsuit.
I can see why folks might think they could get something out of
Target, but suing a potter would be like squeezing water from a stone.
Lawyers think about the object of litigation ability to pay so they
can get their cut.
Jean was temporarily blinded by some contact lense solution. Her
cornea clouded over and the top layers were burnt off by the solution.
Was very painful. A friend of ours works for an important law
firm here in town, and he said because their was no "permanent"
damage, his partners didn't think they could get much in court.
Basically, Jean looked in to this because she didn't want other folks
damaging their eyes with bad contact solution like she did. It was
very painful.
That ended her short trail on contacts.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
The Fuzzy Chef on wed 27 aug 08
Dwain,
> i guess my agenda is providing information to help you have a more
> productive web site. sorry if i was fear mongering. it certainly was
> not my intent.
A better approach would be to describe what people can do to easily make
their web sites accessible. Such as:
* use META tags which describe the site
* make sure all important navigation is straight HTML links
* don't put important text (like your address) in images
* use as little Flash & Javascript as you can
Blind people have programs which can read html and plain text aloud. If
you want to get an idea what your site looks like to a blind person, use
the program "lynx" which is a text-mode browser available on Mac and
Linux machines.
And no, you're not going to get sued.
--Josh "The Fuzzy" Berkus
Lee Love on wed 27 aug 08
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:40 PM, dwain wrote:
>
> hi lee,
> granted most people who do clay don't make a lot of money, but section
> 508, the government's rules on accessibility, is the law. if
If pigs had wings, they could fly. ;^) We are not Target.
I am all for simplicity of design for web pages, but from an
aesthetic perspective. Things like Flash and other animations only
slow loading down.
The byproduct of simplicity is accessibility.
I am always against trying to frighten people into doing the
right thing. We don't act rationally when we are motivated by fear.
A critical problem related to instantaneous mass communication, is
that we here all sorts of anecdotal stories and our primate minds over
rate the hazard because we thing these odd stories somehow prove an
actual, immediate threat to our lives. That is when we need to take
three breaths and also take a basic statistics class.
Bring back the America I grew up in! The Home Of The Brave! And
the minds of the Enlightenment of our founders.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Lois Ruben Aronow on wed 27 aug 08
I think there is more than a bit of overreaction and fear mongering here.
Section 508 applies to Federal agencies who are supplying public
information. (www.section508.gov). It makes good business and design sense
to apply tags and such to a private web site, no one is going to sue your
pants off and take your house because you don't have an audible option on
your personal pottery website.
Nuisance lawsuits are ruining the legal system. Fear mongering like this
has a chilling effect when it comes to small business. There is no reason
that anyone - ANYONE - shouldn't put a web site if they want to.
I don't know what your agenda is, Dwain, but I smell a rat.
...Lo
**********
Lois Aronow Porcelain
Brooklyn, NY
www.loisaronow.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of dwain
> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:41 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: does your web site make you a target for a lawsuit?
>
> On 8/26/08, Lee Love wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 4:26 PM, dwain
> wrote:
> >
> > > i just wanted to share some of this information with you
> so you can
> > > make some educated decisions about choosing a designer and making
> > you > safe from a possible lawsuit.
> >
> >
> > I can see why folks might think they could get something out of
> > Target, but suing a potter would be like squeezing water
> from a stone.
> > Lawyers think about the object of litigation ability to
> pay so they
> > can get their cut.
>
> hi lee,
> granted most people who do clay don't make a lot of money,
> but section 508, the government's rules on accessibility, is
> the law. if you were sued and lost, it could cost you quite
> a bit to redesign your web site, as it did target, to make it
> accessible according to the law.
> web standards aren't law, but accessibility is and a lot of
> countries on this big blue marble have accessibility laws and
> enforce them. it just hasn't caught on real big here yet.
>
> cheers,
> dwain
>
>
> --
> "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a
> little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> Benjamin Franklin
Taylor Hendrix on wed 27 aug 08
Everyone:
Don't get your nickers in a wad. Read here.
http://section508.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=Content&ID=12
Pertinent info here:
TITLE 29--LABOR
CHAPTER 16--VOCATIONAL REHABILITATION AND OTHER REHABILITATION SERVICES
SUBCHAPTER V--RIGHTS AND ADVOCACY
Sec. 794d. Electronic and information technology
(a) Requirements for Federal departments and agencies
(1) Accessibility
(A) Development, procurement, maintenance, or use of electronic
and information technology
When developing, procuring, maintaining, or using electronic
and information technology, each Federal department or agency,
including the United States Postal Service, shall ensure, unless
an undue burden would be imposed on the department or agency,
that the electronic and information technology allows,
regardless of the type of medium of the technology--
(i) individuals with disabilities who are Federal
employees to have access to and use of information and data
that is comparable to the access to and use of the
information and data by Federal employees who are not
individuals with disabilities; and
(ii) individuals with disabilities who are members of
the public seeking information or services from a Federal
department or agency to have access to and use of
information and data that is comparable to the access to and
use of the information and data by such members of the
public who are not individuals with disabilities.
Taylor
John Post on wed 27 aug 08
I am changing all of the alternate text descriptions of the jpegs on
my site to read `worlds most valuable pot ever` or `brown ash runny
glaze over iron red 1", then 'brown ash runny glaze over iron red 2'
etc.
I know access to information via computers is important for visually
impaired people. I am sure there are many great literature, poetry
and informational text sites that would makes sense for a blind person
to be able to access. But adding alternate text to describe a 3-
dimensional image on an artist's site for a visually impaired user
seems a little silly.
John Post
Sterling Heights, Michigan
:: cone 6 glaze website :: http://www.johnpost.us
:: elementary art website :: http://www.wemakeart.org
On Aug 27, 2008, at 9:48 AM, Lee Love wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 10:40 PM, dwain
> wrote:
>>
>> hi lee,
>> granted most people who do clay don't make a lot of money, but
>> section
>> 508, the government's rules on accessibility, is the law. if
>
> If pigs had wings, they could fly. ;^) We are not Target.
>
> I am all for simplicity of design for web pages, but from an
> aesthetic perspective. Things like Flash and other animations only
> slow loading down.
>
> The byproduct of simplicity is accessibility.
>
> I am always against trying to frighten people into doing the
> right thing. We don't act rationally when we are motivated by fear.
> A critical problem related to instantaneous mass communication, is
> that we here all sorts of anecdotal stories and our primate minds over
> rate the hazard because we thing these odd stories somehow prove an
> actual, immediate threat to our lives. That is when we need to take
> three breaths and also take a basic statistics class.
>
> Bring back the America I grew up in! The Home Of The Brave! And
> the minds of the Enlightenment of our founders.
>
> --
> Lee Love in Minneapolis
> http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
> http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
>
> "Let the beauty we love be what we do.
> There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
>
dwain on wed 27 aug 08
On 8/27/08, Lois Ruben Aronow wrote:
> I think there is more than a bit of overreaction and fear mongering here.
>
> Section 508 applies to Federal agencies who are supplying public
> information. (www.section508.gov). It makes good business and design sense
> to apply tags and such to a private web site, no one is going to sue your
> pants off and take your house because you don't have an audible option on
> your personal pottery website.
>
> Nuisance lawsuits are ruining the legal system. Fear mongering like this
> has a chilling effect when it comes to small business. There is no reason
> that anyone - ANYONE - shouldn't put a web site if they want to.
>
> I don't know what your agenda is, Dwain, but I smell a rat.
i'm not trying to spread fear, just provide information. there is
also the discrimination and disabilities act as well. making your web
site non-accessible to people with disabilities is like not putting up
a ramp to your gallery or sales area for people in wheel chairs.
having an accessible web site opens your business up to the ability
for more sales, unless that's something you don't care about.
i guess my agenda is providing information to help you have a more
productive web site. sorry if i was fear mongering. it certainly was
not my intent.
dwain
--
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin
Franklin
Lee Love on thu 28 aug 08
On 8/28/08, The Fuzzy Chef wrote:
> Blind people have programs which can read html and plain text aloud. If
> you want to get an idea what your site looks like to a blind person, use
> the program "lynx" which is a text-mode browser available on Mac and
> Linux machines.
Lynx was my first browser in MSDOS. It has always been available
for Windows.
Download it here:
http://home.pacific.net.sg/~kennethkwok/lynx/
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
dwain on thu 28 aug 08
On 8/27/08, The Fuzzy Chef wrote:
> A better approach would be to describe what people can do to easily make
> their web sites accessible.
you are absolutely correct. and my apoligizes to the list for such a
poor attempt at explaining the problem.
i have put together some links to some tools to help you determine
where there are validation and accessibility errors. i use these
tools all the time and they help me keep my site in accordance with
standards and the law.
the tools and other links i present here are free. if you work with a
designer, you could suggest these tools to them also, but you can stay
on top of your web site by using these tools yourself. they are
pretty intuitive, at least for me they are, and give you a lot of good
feedback about your site.
firefox browser: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/
firefox has many add-ons that can improve the security and
functionality of the browser. i suggest this for the html validator
add-on that follows.
html validator: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/249
this add-on give you an icon on the status bar that shows if the page
is valid or not, how many errors, what and where the errors are.
there is also an accessibility feature built in as well. a very
useful tool.
color contrast analyzer:
http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/contrast-analyser.html
not everybody has perfect color vision. this disability can make your
pages difficult for these folks to read you pages. you can check the
colors on your pages to make sure that color blind visitors can see
your pages.
adesigner: http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/adesigner/download
ibm has come up with a nice tool for accessibility. you can check
your pages against visual impairments like blindness and low vision.
there is a summary report at the bottom of the window to show you how
your page fairs and there is an detailed report tab to show you what
your errors are and what you need to check.
please read: http://www.readplease.com/english/downloads/
this is a free version of a screen reader. it is not as comprehensive
as jaws, the top of the line screen reader, and it is about $850 less
than a copy of jaws.
section 508 classes: http://www.section508.gov/
this is an online, go at your own pace class to teach you about
accessibility, what the 508 law is and such.
if you do use javascript, then you need to also provide a non-js
alternative for visitors who have javascript disabled, and they are
out there.
providing alt text with your image, as i have said before, gives the
visually impaired visitor an idea of your image. it also has an
impact on your seo performance as well. inside your ![]() tag you can
place for a detailed description of the piece. this long
description is on a different page and there is a link to that page
inside the attribute. screen readers can see it, but it is
invisible to other visitors. you can go here to look under the hood
to see how the document is structured:
http://www.studiokdd.com/pages/abstract-christian-art-new-testament.html
to look under the hood, if you are using internet explorer go to
view/source. if you are using firefox go to view/page source. if you
are using firefox with the html validator add-on, just double click
the green check mark.
if you use flash, make sure that it is accessible. the problem with
flash in the past is that it was not accessible. there are ways to
make it so today.
using a "skip links" link will allow the screen reader operator to
skip your navigation and go directly to your main content.
using css to separate your content from your presentation is another
way to make your web site accessible. imagine, if you will, that you
are using a screen reader and you have to listen to " font:5,
font-family: arial, etc." as you try to listen to the important
content on the page. it would be difficult to concentrate on the
important information that your are trying to dispense.
these are just a few of the ways to make your web site accessible.
i hope that i have made amends with this information. i hope that
those who are interested will try them and use them. it can save you
a lot of headaches down the road.
regards,
dwain
--
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little
temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin
Franklin
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