Suchman ceramics on mon 1 sep 08
Sorrowfully, my wife seems to feel this way I think, at times.-e-in-o'side-
On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Digital Studio wrote:
> How many people on this list can say that they've been told more than
> once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?
> I'm taking two ceramics classes at my current college and people keep
> saying things like,
> "Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could
> get an actual JOB when you're done."
> "Ceramics is just a hobby."
>
>
> I've given up trying to explain that ceramics teaches people more about
> themselves, or that there are actual famous and wealthy potters. Why is
> there this misconception that ceramics is a hobby and not a real job?
> I'm sure many of you have interesting stories about this topic... please
> share.
> -Kendra
>
--
-e-in-o'side-
pagan by nature
Lee Love on mon 1 sep 08
On 9/1/08, Des & Jan Howard wrote:
> But not one fulltime potter I know of!!
> However there are quite a number of people who 'do a bit of pottery'.
> Des
Check out my friend Euan Craig. He works way more than full time.
Studied at a technical school in Bendigo:
http://euancraig.blogspot.com/
http://www.d1.dion.ne.jp/~euan
Sarah Gutierrez on mon 1 sep 08
Kendra,=0AIt is amazing how many people feel this way.=A0 When I first star=
ted ceramics I felt that it could only be a hobby because it was such a cha=
llenge.=A0 I would look at professional work and feel that it was somehow o=
ut of my grasp.=A0 I think that a lot of people feel this way.=A0 Many year=
s later I am enjoying clay as a profession and have felt the embrace of the=
art community.=A0 Clay can be very intimidating and the people that work i=
n clay tend to be a different breed of artist.=A0 The people that work in c=
lay are some of the most down to earth, unpretentious artists that I have e=
ver dealt with.=0AOne of the things that turned me off of fine art when I w=
as in college the the pretentiousness of the people in the art program.=A0 =
There always had to be a deeper meaning or=A0dimension to whatever they cre=
ated (ie. political, religious, sexual).=A0 If you ask me it was a lot of B=
.S. that was meant to elevate their artwork when=A0technical ability was la=
cking.=A0 With clay there is no B.S. to hide behind.=A0 The clay and the gl=
aze speak for themselves.=A0=A0=A0 I think that it bothers me most when peo=
ple not only downgrade ceramics to a hobby, but also claim it cannot be a f=
ine art.=A0 I feel that this is a medium that can be explored as a fine art=
, with clay as a canvas and glaze as the medium.=A0 Form and color.....the =
purest form of art.=A0 Ceramics will be here long after all the canvases ha=
ve rotted away.=A0 Some of the best examples of historical art are found in=
pottery.=0ASarah=0A=0A=A0=0ASarah Gutierrez=0Awww.sassafrasspottery.com =
=0A626.230.6661=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Digital Stud=
io =0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=0ASent: Monda=
y, September 1, 2008 1:19:29 PM=0ASubject: Ceramics- Not a real job?=0A=0AH=
ow many people on this list can say that they've been told more than=0Aonce=
that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?=0AI'm taking two cera=
mics classes at my current college and people keep=0Asaying things like,=0A=
"Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could=0Age=
t an actual JOB when you're done."=0A"Ceramics is just a hobby."=0A=0A=0AI'=
ve given up trying to explain that ceramics teaches people more about=0Athe=
mselves, or that there are actual famous and wealthy potters. Why is=0Ather=
e this misconception that ceramics is a hobby and not a real job?=0AI'm sur=
e many of you have interesting stories about this topic... please=0Ashare.=
=0A-Kendra=0A
Digital Studio on mon 1 sep 08
How many people on this list can say that they've been told more than
once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?
I'm taking two ceramics classes at my current college and people keep
saying things like,
"Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could
get an actual JOB when you're done."
"Ceramics is just a hobby."
I've given up trying to explain that ceramics teaches people more about
themselves, or that there are actual famous and wealthy potters. Why is
there this misconception that ceramics is a hobby and not a real job?
I'm sure many of you have interesting stories about this topic... please
share.
-Kendra
Patrick Cross on tue 2 sep 08
I'm coming in late on this, but has anyone mentioned all the "Real Jobs"
that just the existence ceramic artists produces?
As in every 'real job' from material and equipment suppliers to gallery
owners...
Patrick Cross
Cone10Soda
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Larry Kruzan wrote:
> > But not one fulltime potter I know of!!
> > However there are quite a number of people who 'do a bit of pottery'.
> > Des
>
>
> Check out my web site too. 60 hours a week or so. Making pots, teaching,
> writing about pottery and selling 8,000 or so pots a year - most anyone
> would call that a "real" job.
>
> I'm looking at a 10,000 sq foot building for expansion right now. Bigger
> gallery, add a coffee shop, separate teaching studio, room for wife to have
> a quilt studio. I see a future.
>
>
> Larry Kruzan
> Lost Creek Pottery
> www.lostcreekpottery.com
>
Victoria E. Hamilton on tue 2 sep 08
Yes, Gayle. We want to see the teapot.
Vicki Hamilton
Millennia Antica Pottery
Seattle, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of gayle bair
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:56 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Ceramics- Not a real job?
Amen Sarah!!!
My experience in college (1966) was similar and the reason I switched from
the painting to printmaking. The pretentiousness was way over the top.
Unfortunately I didn't find ceramics then and had to wait 30 years... but
every day I am so grateful clay found me. It defined my life!
For the very reasons you stated I made it a quest to take functional items
and turn them into works of art!
In the past few years have just hit a place where people are recognizing
this and are becoming more willing to pay for it!
A couple weeks ago I sold a $425 teapot! It does take perseverance and work
that stands out.
If you'd like to see the teapot (my web is woefully out of date) let me
know.
BTW Your work is stunning!
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Sep 1, 2008, at 9:32 PM, Sarah Gutierrez wrote:
> Kendra,
> It is amazing how many people feel this way. When I first started
> ceramics I felt that it could only be a hobby because it was such a
> challenge. I would look at professional work and feel that it was
> somehow out of my grasp. I think that a lot of people feel this way.
> Many years later I am enjoying clay as a profession and have felt the
> embrace of the art community. Clay can be very intimidating and the
> people that work in clay tend to be a different breed of artist. The
> people that work in clay are some of the most down to earth,
> unpretentious artists that I have ever dealt with.
> One of the things that turned me off of fine art when I was in college
> the the pretentiousness of the people in the art program.
> There always had to be a deeper meaning or dimension to whatever they
> created (ie. political, religious, sexual). If you ask me it was a
> lot of B.S. that was meant to elevate their artwork when technical
> ability was lacking. With clay there is no B.S. to hide
> behind. The clay and the glaze speak for themselves. I think
> that it bothers me most when people not only downgrade ceramics to a
> hobby, but also claim it cannot be a fine art. I feel that this is a
> medium that can be explored as a fine art, with clay as a canvas and
> glaze as the medium. Form and color.....the purest form of art.
> Ceramics will be here long after all the canvases have rotted away.
> Some of the best examples of historical art are found in pottery.
> Sarah
>
> Sarah Gutierrez
> www.sassafrasspottery.com
> 626.230.6661
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Digital Studio
>
>
> How many people on this list can say that they've been told more than
> once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?
> I'm taking two ceramics classes at my current college and people keep
> saying things like, "Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the
> kind where you could get an actual JOB when you're done."
> "Ceramics is just a hobby."
Ric Swenson on tue 2 sep 08
bumper sticker of the 1970s.....
CERAMICS: THE WORLD'S MOST POPULAR HOBBY!
It was a popular bumper sticker. Ceramics meant molds ..............and painting figures of santa and angels and frogs.....
WE....of course are offended by the notion....because......WE are SERIOUS potters!
By Gawd....we make POTS!!! REAL POTS!! We fire pots in wood fired flat -top by the Jesus. ....MINNESOTA!!! REAL kilns. SODA and wood and salt and amafuckingama kilns! we are REAL potters! we make extruuuuuded shapes.....we are important!!!! We are educators!
Hehe.....maybe not so hehe?
A real JOB!?
lets remember to laugh at ourselves...... Lighten up a little?
just make pots and have some fun.....grow............ and live a good life. The proof is in the pudding.
Just my 2 RMB
Ric
"...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..." -Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher, Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Institute, TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.JiangXi Province, P.R. of China. Postal code 333001. Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872 < RicSwenson0823@hotmail.com> http://www.jci.jx.cn/http://www.ricswenson.com
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 02:05:23 +0000> From: patsgreenpots@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: Ceramics- Not a real job?> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG> > I blame the industrial revolution. wonderful as it was some problems> did arise from it hahahahaha.> > --- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Digital Studio wrote:> >> > How many people on this list can say that they've been told more than> > once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?> > I'm taking two ceramics classes at my current college and people keep> > saying things like,> > "Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could> > get an actual JOB when you're done."> > "Ceramics is just a hobby."> >> >> > I've given up trying to explain that ceramics teaches people more about> > themselves, or that there are actual famous and wealthy potters. Why is> > there this misconception that ceramics is a hobby and not a real job?> > I'm sure many of you have interesting stories about this topic... please> > share.> > -Kendra> >
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Des & Jan Howard on tue 2 sep 08
Lee
Euan, (long may he pot), did Art & Design at a Victorian TAFE.
I still don't know of any fulltime potters coming out of a New South
Wales TAFE Ceramics Diploma course.
Dammit! I wanted the system to work, there not being very few workshops
to do apprentice time in. I'll exclude the idea of 'mentoring' as a
valid alternative. See Damon Moon's article in the latest 'Australian
Ceramics'.
Des
Lee Love wrote:
> Check out my friend Euan Craig. He works way more than full time.
> Studied at a technical school in Bendigo:
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
Dale Neese on tue 2 sep 08
I don't know how many times I've heard that phrase. Ceramics is not a real
job. Frankly I think people are a bit jealous of my profession. I like to
refer to it as my "lifestyle." At least I am not working in a cubicle. It's
the hardest thing I've ever tried to do. Over 30 years almost everyday and
it looks so easy to other people. "I could do that". Right. Get them on a
wheel and the excuses begin. I've had a father-in-law try to figure out my
price per piece production for bowls one day, per week, per year. Kell, I am
not competing with a machine! "No way could I make any money at this job."
He was a television repairman for years and when the transistors replaced
tubes it was all over. You can't compare ceramics to most anything else
except Art and Art is long. I don't care what anyone sez, you can't piddle
around in your spare time and have much success at ceramics. I've tried
working "real jobs" in the printing industry. 12 hour shifts, plenty of
money but no time to enjoy it. If money was the only thing driving my soul
then I would have become a politician or an oil company executive or
whatever. I just wasn't happy doing anything else and "my time" was
important to me. I still add to my small income with occasional teaching and
workshops. But I just can't be away from the studio for a long time. I've
always had people make the same suggestions on how to make more money with
my ceramics. "Well bro, you need to get you some production ram presses,
start slip casting those jars, hire you several employees, open up a store
front, hire a rep". Gee, that's a headache business model like every other
"business" and I don't want that! And when many of my other well
intentioned friends are retired, got their gold watch, maybe thinking about
taking up some activity to piddle with, I'll be still making those pots.
Still thrilled as ever to see my own creations. I was around when Harding
Black was getting up in age, still getting up at the crack of dawn in the
studio to unload a warm kiln. Seeing him holding a one of a kind glazed bowl
and a big ole grin of his that still gave him so much satisfaction and joy.
That's what a real "life" is all about.
Dale Tex
"across the alley from the Alamo"
Helotes, Texas USA
www.daleneese.com
Ric Swenson on tue 2 sep 08
yeah....real life...a good bowl....it turns me on....makes my day....spins my wheels....does it for me.
I love a real good bowl.
Bowling for dollars.............. or just bowling for a good feel.....I know when I have made a good one....ribbed down....sound and round.....smooth and tight......a swirl in the bottom....zen or god or me......that swirl of my fingers.....
why be anything but a potter?
Simple and satisfying......smooth and satiating.
ric
"...then fiery expedition be my wing, ..." -Wm. Shakespeare, RICHARD III, Act IV Scene III Richard H. ("Ric") Swenson, Teacher, Office of International Cooperation and Exchange of Jingdezhen Ceramic Institute, TaoYang Road, Eastern Suburb, Jingdezhen City.JiangXi Province, P.R. of China. Postal code 333001. Mobile/cellular phone : 86 13767818872 < RicSwenson0823@hotmail.com> http://www.jci.jx.cn/http://www.ricswenson.com
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 08:01:48 -0500> From: dneese@SATX.RR.COM> Subject: Ceramics- Not a real job?> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG> > I don't know how many times I've heard that phrase. Ceramics is not a real> job. Frankly I think people are a bit jealous of my profession. I like to> refer to it as my "lifestyle." At least I am not working in a cubicle. It's> the hardest thing I've ever tried to do. Over 30 years almost everyday and> it looks so easy to other people. "I could do that". Right. Get them on a> wheel and the excuses begin. I've had a father-in-law try to figure out my> price per piece production for bowls one day, per week, per year. Kell, I am> not competing with a machine! "No way could I make any money at this job."> He was a television repairman for years and when the transistors replaced> tubes it was all over. You can't compare ceramics to most anything else> except Art and Art is long. I don't care what anyone sez, you can't piddle> around in your spare time and have much success at ceramics. I've tried> working "real jobs" in the printing industry. 12 hour shifts, plenty of> money but no time to enjoy it. If money was the only thing driving my soul> then I would have become a politician or an oil company executive or> whatever. I just wasn't happy doing anything else and "my time" was> important to me. I still add to my small income with occasional teaching and> workshops. But I just can't be away from the studio for a long time. I've> always had people make the same suggestions on how to make more money with> my ceramics. "Well bro, you need to get you some production ram presses,> start slip casting those jars, hire you several employees, open up a store> front, hire a rep". Gee, that's a headache business model like every other> "business" and I don't want that! And when many of my other well> intentioned friends are retired, got their gold watch, maybe thinking about> taking up some activity to piddle with, I'll be still making those pots.> Still thrilled as ever to see my own creations. I was around when Harding> Black was getting up in age, still getting up at the crack of dawn in the> studio to unload a warm kiln. Seeing him holding a one of a kind glazed bowl> and a big ole grin of his that still gave him so much satisfaction and joy.> That's what a real "life" is all about.> > Dale Tex> "across the alley from the Alamo"> Helotes, Texas USA> www.daleneese.com
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Lee Love on tue 2 sep 08
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 7:53 AM, Des & Jan Howard wrote:
> Lee
> Euan, (long may he pot), did Art & Design at a Victorian TAFE.
> I still don't know of any fulltime potters coming out of a New South
> Wales TAFE Ceramics Diploma course.
Greg, from Perth, told me that he only knows two full time potters in
Australia. That really surprised me. Jean speaking to Euan after I
left said it would be tough making a living if he moved back home.
He is really breaking through in Japan right now, when every one else
I know there is having a difficult time. He had his first Takashimya
show and has a spread in a recent Japanese ceramic magazine with the
issue focusing on mugs.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
Dannon Rhudy on tue 2 sep 08
......> How many people on this list can say that they've been told more
than
> once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?........
One of my most interesting experiences in that line was
when I was in Texas. I was teaching part-time, but essentially
making my living as a potter. Another teacher came to Texas
A&M Commerce to do a workshop, and I took a group of
students to see her.
That teacher was a full time teacher at another school,
and she was demonstrating some sculptural techniques.
However, she spent the whole time of her workshop explaining
to the attendees (almost all undergrad students) that they could
not be full-time potters and make a living, and if they could/did,
then they were not artists, anyway. It was better, she said,
to just have a hobby, and do something else to earn a lliving.
In her constantly reiterated
view, it was not possible to make a living as an artist (she had
not been able to and was teaching instead). I did not like the tone
of her rhetoric, but I was a guest ....a little awkward. I asked her
various times if she was telling these beginning artists that artists
could not make a living, and she said yes. I asked her if she
thought that Michaelangelo and his ilk were artists. "Yes, but
now is different". Finally, in great irritation, she asked me "why
do you keep asking these questions; is it your hope to be able
to make a living as an artist?" I responded that I was asking
the questions because I thought it was important to ask such
questions, and that since her workshop was aimed at beginners
in various arts fields it hardly seemed appropriate to stipulate
that they could not use their skills to make a living. She
assumed I was one of the students, without experience in the
real world, and with no background. I didn't tell her otherwise.
Beating dead horses seldom appeals to me, and I was not there
to engage in peurile can too/can not conversation. It gave my
students a lot to talk about for the next few days, though. On
the whole it was a good experience for them, and it set them to
thinking in different ways. The next
semester we had David Hendley come up to do a workshop for
us. Heh heh heh, she laughed evilly........
regards,
Dannon Rhudy
gayle bair on tue 2 sep 08
Amen Sarah!!!
My experience in college (1966) was similar and the reason I switched
from the painting to printmaking. The pretentiousness was way over the
top. Unfortunately I didn't find ceramics then and had to wait 30
years... but every day I am so grateful clay found me. It defined my
life!
For the very reasons you stated I made it a quest to take functional
items and turn them into works of art!
In the past few years have just hit a place where people are
recognizing this and are becoming more willing to pay for it!
A couple weeks ago I sold a $425 teapot! It does take perseverance and
work that stands out.
If you'd like to see the teapot (my web is woefully out of date) let
me know.
BTW Your work is stunning!
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island WA
Tucson AZ
gayle@claybair.com
www.claybair.com
On Sep 1, 2008, at 9:32 PM, Sarah Gutierrez wrote:
> Kendra,
> It is amazing how many people feel this way. When I first started
> ceramics I felt that it could only be a hobby because it was such a
> challenge. I would look at professional work and feel that it was
> somehow out of my grasp. I think that a lot of people feel this
> way. Many years later I am enjoying clay as a profession and have
> felt the embrace of the art community. Clay can be very
> intimidating and the people that work in clay tend to be a different
> breed of artist. The people that work in clay are some of the most
> down to earth, unpretentious artists that I have ever dealt with.
> One of the things that turned me off of fine art when I was in
> college the the pretentiousness of the people in the art program.
> There always had to be a deeper meaning or dimension to whatever
> they created (ie. political, religious, sexual). If you ask me it
> was a lot of B.S. that was meant to elevate their artwork when
> technical ability was lacking. With clay there is no B.S. to hide
> behind. The clay and the glaze speak for themselves. I think
> that it bothers me most when people not only downgrade ceramics to a
> hobby, but also claim it cannot be a fine art. I feel that this is
> a medium that can be explored as a fine art, with clay as a canvas
> and glaze as the medium. Form and color.....the purest form of
> art. Ceramics will be here long after all the canvases have rotted
> away. Some of the best examples of historical art are found in
> pottery.
> Sarah
>
> Sarah Gutierrez
> www.sassafrasspottery.com
> 626.230.6661
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Digital Studio
>
>
> How many people on this list can say that they've been told more than
> once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?
> I'm taking two ceramics classes at my current college and people keep
> saying things like,
> "Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could
> get an actual JOB when you're done."
> "Ceramics is just a hobby."
Des & Jan Howard on tue 2 sep 08
Kendra
Our state has TAFE (Technical and Further Education) colleges in just
about every largish town/city. These vocationally oriented colleges
cover a vast range of courses, whitecollar, hospitality, rural &
industrial. Trade apprentices from bakers to carpenters attend as part
of their apprenticeship. Many of these colleges had 3 year diploma
ceramics courses. Fewer now. Over the years TAFE has produced
professional bookkeepers, IT people, plumbers, welders, pastrycooks &
winemakers by the thousand.
But not one fulltime potter I know of!!
However there are quite a number of people who 'do a bit of pottery'.
Des
Digital Studio wrote:
> How many people on this list can say that they've been told more than
> once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?
> I'm taking two ceramics classes at my current college and people keep
> saying things like,
> "Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could
> get an actual JOB when you're done."
> "Ceramics is just a hobby."
>
>
> I've given up trying to explain that ceramics teaches people more about
> themselves, or that there are actual famous and wealthy potters. Why is
> there this misconception that ceramics is a hobby and not a real job?
> I'm sure many of you have interesting stories about this topic... please
> share.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
Sarah Gutierrez on tue 2 sep 08
Gayle,=0AI would love to see your teapot.=A0 I think that functional potter=
y can make some of the best pieces of art because they are used in=A0daily =
life and can bring beauty to our day.=A0 My favorite pieces, and I think th=
e most undervalued pieces, are coffee cups.=A0 I love that first cup of cof=
fee in the morning with a well thrown, handmade mug.=A0 =A0Why is it the se=
cond that you put a handle on a piece it devalues it to the $10-20 range?=
=A0=A0 I refuse to make them for sale, but have made them my signature gift=
for special people in my life.=0A=A0=0ASarah Gutierrez=0Awww.sassafrasspot=
tery.com =0A626.230.6661=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: gay=
le bair =0ATo: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG=0ASent: Tuesd=
ay, September 2, 2008 9:56:22 AM=0ASubject: Re: Ceramics- Not a real job?=
=0A=0AAmen Sarah!!!=0A=0AMy experience in college (1966) was similar and th=
e reason I switched=0Afrom the painting to printmaking. The pretentiousness=
was way over the=0Atop. Unfortunately I didn't find ceramics then and had =
to wait 30=0Ayears... but every day I am so grateful clay found me. It defi=
ned my=0Alife!=0AFor the very reasons you stated I made it a quest to take =
functional=0Aitems and turn them into works of art!=0AIn the past few years=
have just hit a place where people are=0Arecognizing this and are becoming=
more willing to pay for it!=0AA couple weeks ago I sold a $425 teapot! It =
does take perseverance and=0Awork that stands out.=0AIf you'd like to see t=
he teapot (my web is woefully out of date) let=0Ame know.=0ABTW Your work i=
s stunning!=0A=0AGayle Bair=0ABainbridge Island WA=0ATucson AZ=0Agayle@clay=
bair.com=0Awww.claybair.com=0A=0A=0AOn Sep 1, 2008, at 9:32 PM, Sarah Gutie=
rrez wrote:=0A=0A> Kendra,=0A> It is amazing how many people feel this way.=
=A0 When I first started=0A> ceramics I felt that it could only be a hobby =
because it was such a=0A> challenge.=A0 I would look at professional work a=
nd feel that it was=0A> somehow out of my grasp.=A0 I think that a lot of p=
eople feel this=0A> way.=A0 Many years later I am enjoying clay as a profes=
sion and have=0A> felt the embrace of the art community.=A0 Clay can be ver=
y=0A> intimidating and the people that work in clay tend to be a different=
=0A> breed of artist.=A0 The people that work in clay are some of the most=
=0A> down to earth, unpretentious artists that I have ever dealt with.=0A> =
One of the things that turned me off of fine art when I was in=0A> college =
the the pretentiousness of the people in the art program.=0A> There always =
had to be a deeper meaning or dimension to whatever=0A> they created (ie. p=
olitical, religious, sexual).=A0 If you ask me it=0A> was a lot of B.S. tha=
t was meant to elevate their artwork when=0A> technical ability was lacking=
.=A0 With clay there is no B.S. to hide=0A> behind.=A0 The clay and the gla=
ze speak for themselves.=A0 =A0 I think=0A> that it bothers me most when pe=
ople not only downgrade ceramics to a=0A> hobby, but also claim it cannot b=
e a fine art.=A0 I feel that this is=0A> a medium that can be explored as a=
fine art, with clay as a canvas=0A> and glaze as the medium.=A0 Form and c=
olor.....the purest form of=0A> art.=A0 Ceramics will be here long after al=
l the canvases have rotted=0A> away.=A0 Some of the best examples of histor=
ical art are found in=0A> pottery.=0A> Sarah=0A>=0A> Sarah Gutierrez=0A> ww=
w.sassafrasspottery.com=0A> 626.230.6661=0A>=0A> ----- Original Message ---=
-=0A> From: Digital Studio =0A>=0A>=0A> How many=
people on this list can say that they've been told more than=0A> once that=
ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?=0A> I'm taking two ceramic=
s classes at my current college and people keep=0A> saying things like,=0A>=
"Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could=0A>=
get an actual JOB when you're done."=0A> "Ceramics is just a hobby."=0A
Vince Pitelka on tue 2 sep 08
When I was in undergraduate school at Humboldt State in Northern California
in the late 60s and early 70s, some of the advanced students were doing
low-fire sculpture and using lots of Duncan ^04 glazes. Each one had some
corny slogan on the underside of the cap, and we nailed them up on the wall.
Three that I remember were "Ceramics: the world's most fascinating hobby!",
"Make your day the clay way!" and "Have you played with clay today?"
Someone was getting paid to make those up. So Duncan certainly did their
share to promote this kind of attitude.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Tech University
vpitelka@dtccom.net; wpitelka@tntech.edu
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka
patsgreenpots on tue 2 sep 08
I blame the industrial revolution. wonderful as it was some problems
did arise from it hahahahaha.
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Digital Studio wrote:
>
> How many people on this list can say that they've been told more than
> once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?
> I'm taking two ceramics classes at my current college and people keep
> saying things like,
> "Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could
> get an actual JOB when you're done."
> "Ceramics is just a hobby."
>
>
> I've given up trying to explain that ceramics teaches people more about
> themselves, or that there are actual famous and wealthy potters. Why is
> there this misconception that ceramics is a hobby and not a real job?
> I'm sure many of you have interesting stories about this topic... please
> share.
> -Kendra
>
Larry Kruzan on tue 2 sep 08
> But not one fulltime potter I know of!!
> However there are quite a number of people who 'do a bit of pottery'.
> Des
Check out my web site too. 60 hours a week or so. Making pots, teaching,
writing about pottery and selling 8,000 or so pots a year - most anyone
would call that a "real" job.
I'm looking at a 10,000 sq foot building for expansion right now. Bigger
gallery, add a coffee shop, separate teaching studio, room for wife to have
a quilt studio. I see a future.
Larry Kruzan
Lost Creek Pottery
www.lostcreekpottery.com
Hank Murrow on wed 3 sep 08
Dear Group:
In an interview on the radio ( http://www.ratical.org/many_worlds/
JCP98.html ), Joseph Chilton Pearce in 1998 quoted Margaret Mead as
saying:
"No education that is not founded on art will ever succeed."
and he continued........"I think the beauty of the Waldorf system is
that they don't teach art -- it's not a subject. Art is the way by
which everything is taught and learned. Art is "high play" and only
through high play does real learning take place. Yes, this is the way
to a real life. The rest of it is conditioning to another's employ,
another's motive, another's idea of life."
Now THAT says much that could clear the air on this topic, in my view.
Cheers to all artists! We can stop obsessing about getting a Ceramics
Monthly cover now.
Hank in Eugene
On Sep 3, 2008, at 9:48 AM, patsgreenpots wrote, in part:
>
>
> Why do so many people regard ceramic art as 'not a real job'. I think
> it has to do with a few things. First an ongoing mind set that has
> found its way into current American society, I say American because I
> have never been a potter anywhere else it very well may exist
> everywhere. It is a belief in a hierarchical structure that capitalism
> forms, a secondary effect really. The idea that to 'make it' one has
> to 'pay dues', to work for someone until they are able to become
> someone to work for, and that their primary focus, and measure of
> success is their dollar worth. Potters tend to measure their success
> in a different way.
>>
>> I've given up trying to explain that ceramics teaches people more
>> about
>> themselves, or that there are actual famous and wealthy potters.
>> Why is
>> there this misconception that ceramics is a hobby and not a real job?
>> I'm sure many of you have interesting stories about this topic...
>> please
>> share.
>> -Kendra
>>
Steve Slatin on wed 3 sep 08
The physicist Feynman wrote a book title
"Why Do You Care What People Think?"
The title is appropriate in this context.
Many jobs are widely considered to be
'not work' or 'not *real* work.'
In no order, and not being comprehensive,
these jobs include --
Painter (other than house painting)
Horse breeder
Photographer
Writer
Dancer
Philosopher
Mathematician
Musician
There are others!
On the other hand, no one questions
the legitimacy of the following
occupations --
Post hole digger
Prison guard
Plumber
Proctologist
Painter (houses only)
Now the correlation and distinction
that I'm making here is, if a 'job'
is sufficiently unpleasant, no one
questions the legitimacy of it as
'work.' If it seems like it might
be pleasant, engaging, or even just
distracting, then people don't want
to give it credit as 'real work.'
If it seems totally unpleasant,
well, then, people accept it as
'real.'
Will most ceramicists make bundles
of money? No. Neither will most
musicians, ballerinas, or authors.
But if you can find something to do
that you really like -- something
that makes you want to get out of
bed in the morning -- something
where you can work for hours, and
when you realize that you really,
really need to get a drink of water
and something to eat because you're
tired and thirsty, and then you try
to do just one more good thing before
you take your break -- well, then
you're one lucky, happy person.
And if you can put food on the table
doing it, then you're a success in
my book -- whether your neighbor,
with a job he hates and a big boat
he can't take to the lake because he's
too busy working can see it or not.
Steve Slatin --
Lee Love on wed 3 sep 08
On Wed, Sep 3, 2008 at 11:48 AM, patsgreenpots wrote:
> SO, I guess in short we exist outside of a social norm.
You know Patrick. I was happy back in 9th grade, when I
discovered H.D. Thoreau's Walden Pond and Civil Disobedience. I
realized a fellow traveler in him and that neither of us was too
influenced by what society thought. I've always been immune to
advertising too. I was amused to find that William Gibson had a
character with the same "handicap" who made a living figuring out what
the next fashion fad would be.
Later, I was happy to find Mingei and the Arts and Crafts
movement. Movements that try to preserve what endures. The
appreciation of it, anyway.
--
Lee Love in Minneapolis
http://heartclay.blogspot.com/
http://mashikopots.blogspot.com/
http://claycraft.blogspot.com/
"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground." --Rumi
patsgreenpots on wed 3 sep 08
Ok, time to get a little deep. I apologize in advance.
Why do so many people regard ceramic art as 'not a real job'. I think
it has to do with a few things. First an ongoing mind set that has
found its way into current American society, I say American because I
have never been a potter anywhere else it very well may exist
everywhere. It is a belief in a hierarchical structure that capitalism
forms, a secondary effect really. The idea that to 'make it' one has
to 'pay dues', to work for someone until they are able to become
someone to work for, and that their primary focus, and measure of
success is their dollar worth. Potters tend to measure their success
in a different way. We still pay dues but they are more individual,
and I imagine that the average potter isn't working for a ceramics
firm. They may have other jobs that they enjoy, like teaching, but
that is separate from their art, it doesn't dictate what they make. I
have known a few potters who are 'in it for the money' and they are
miserable. Thats not to say money is unimportant, it is what we trade
for our beans, but it is not the focus of what we do.
Which leads us to the next point, and this may be a bit morose, but I
imagine we are all going to die potters. We aren't working to 65 so we
can then start living our lives and doing what we want to, we are
kinda doing that now. I can speak only for myself but I plan on face
planting into a nice big bowl or jug at the early age of 250 (yes 250).
We also have a notion of will. And not just of will, but the
expression of will. So many others work jobs where they are told, in
one way or another, what they are to do. They may have some creativity
as to their choice and actions in the matter, but their actions on a
base level are still the expression of so one else's will. We follow
our own wills. That is really amazing in today's world if you think
about it. Granted there are some things that derive from circumstance,
but all in all we as a whole have grabbed the reins of our lives, and
I can speak for myself things seem a lot more chaotic from the
captains chair.
I suppose ultimately those are really individual things. If we are to
get to the matter at hand we have to look at the whole. Another trend
in our world is the idea that 'the best way to do things is fast,
cheaply, and with as little effort as possible'. Truth be told the
combination of those 3 things in that way may indeed be the worst way
to do things. Not to say is isn't good to be efficient, it is, that
formula has forgotten the what and the why, and that is its problem.
We on the other hand tend to do things quite difficultly, we take the
long way home so to speak. Case in point (and I won't mention any
names but if you know this person it will be obvious) I spent several
hours this past NCECA talking with a potter who was working on a
copper red that doesn't craze. I am a bit of a physics geek myself,
and some of my best friends are a Biologist and a Biochemist, so I
wasn't completely lost. But I was astounded at the measures this
potter had gone through to understand and figure out this issue. The
hours and days of research and numbers of tests, and they did in fact
yield the desired result, Amazing!
You see often we do things the hard way. Not for some monetary payoff
or praise, or awards (though those things may very well come), but
because we are compelled to, we must. In a world where most are in
meadows, we climb cliffs.
SO, I guess in short we exist outside of a social norm. And sadly
enough so much of the world is still stuck in a High school mentality
that any one outside of what is considered average or things they
don't understand or scare them, (and I dare say the lives we live are
quite scary to the general populous, What no health care? no idea of
your income this month? You work seven days a week at times?) is
marginalized. For us thats not having a 'real job', or being in the
'real world'. I am ok with that though, I am doing what I love thats
very important, plus have you seen the 'real world' lately those folks
are nuts!
Well there is a quarters worth of my two cents,
--Patrick Andrew Green
--- In clayart@yahoogroups.com, Digital Studio wrote:
>
> How many people on this list can say that they've been told more than
> once that ceramics is just a hobby and not a real career?
> I'm taking two ceramics classes at my current college and people keep
> saying things like,
> "Why don't you take REAL classes... you know, the kind where you could
> get an actual JOB when you're done."
> "Ceramics is just a hobby."
>
>
> I've given up trying to explain that ceramics teaches people more about
> themselves, or that there are actual famous and wealthy potters. Why is
> there this misconception that ceramics is a hobby and not a real job?
> I'm sure many of you have interesting stories about this topic... please
> share.
> -Kendra
>
Des & Jan Howard on wed 3 sep 08
Lee
Depends whether you want to make a name or make pots.
We don't do exhibitions, teach, write articles, sell doo-dads or DVDs.
We just make pots & sell them to passersby. Lots of pots. Oh, & plant trees.
Des
Lee Love wrote:
> Greg, from Perth, told me that he only knows two full time potters in
> Australia. That really surprised me. Jean speaking to Euan after I
> left said it would be tough making a living if he moved back home.
> He is really breaking through in Japan right now, when every one else
> I know there is having a difficult time.
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
Lue NSW
Australia
2850
02 6373 6419
www.luepottery.hwy.com.au
Daphne Vega on thu 4 sep 08
Thank you Steve for that post! If we want to be taken seriously as people
with real jobs maybe we need to start talking about cleaning our clay
traps more often. That is a truly unpleasant job.
Daphne
http://kittenheelsproductions.blogspot.com
Linda White on thu 4 sep 08
Based on the initial posting on this subject, it sounded like "a real
job" was one where the worker is paid by someone else to do
something--so anyone self-employed would not have "a real job." It
seems to me that schools are designed to provide employable workers--
in a capitalistic society--employees. Although there are many people
who do well in school who are self-motivated and and become self-
employed, it seems only logical that people who are extremely suited
to become self-employed would have difficulty in school. After all,
becoming a good employee means following someone else's direction,
and extremely self-motivated people want to follow their own
direction==not particularly a good trait to have when you are in school.
Linda White
LickHaven Pottery
Dushore PA
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